Are we lovers or aren't we?

[myjot]

Who knows? Peer pressure? The illusion of a future happy life? May be he/she believes monogamy before, and changed his/her mind?

 

Have you made any decision in your past that you regret? That you wish to change? May be that is one of those cases.

 

I believe monogamy is a romantic idea. I also believe the human race is capable of loving many. In fact, we are conditioned to love more than one parent, sibling, child and friend. So why forbid the possibility of loving or even just enjoying more than one "lover"? A bit of a contradiction to me. One that makes me understand why "cheating" is an age old epidemic.

[dreamingoftigers]

I believe monogamy is a romantic idea. I also believe the human race is capable of loving many. In fact, we are conditioned to love more than one parent, sibling, child and friend. So why forbid the possibility of loving or even just enjoying more than one "lover"? A bit of a contradiction to me. One that makes me understand why "cheating" is an age old epidemic.

 

Then get a divorce or at least share you views with your partner so he can make an informed choice of what to do about it. Who knows he might even like/accept it?

 

Personally no one gives a crap if you get laid by 10000 men, but that doesn't give you the right to betray one.

[myjot]

You asked what course you should take with your lover in order to assure his continued interest in your relationship.

 

I believe showing you are interested in him will give him part of what he`s missing in his marriage.

Make him feel "wanted".

 

Men are often disparaged for having affairs for the wrong reasons.

It`s perceived that men are merely dogs looking for tail and cannot control themselves.

This is for the most part entirely untrue, most men who have affairs do so because they are missing something in their marriage.

 

I don`t condone it, I don`t recommend it, I know there are much better ways of dealing with it but there are indeed reasons for it.

 

I have been that man so in the narrow aspect of what you asked for in your OP I say pursue him, let him know he`s wanted.

 

In this sexual society that we live, it is easy to think he may be a "dog". (and I may be the "tail") But when I think about myself--where I was--where I am in my life-- I can also say that "filling a void" is part of the draw. He captured my interest, which is difficult to do. I never expected such a thing to occur. I am not sure how to deal with it.

[dreamingoftigers]

In this sexual society that we live, it is easy to think he may be a "dog". (and I may be the "tail") But when I think about myself--where I was--where I am in my life-- I can also say that "filling a void" is part of the draw. He captured my interest, which is difficult to do. I never expected such a thing to occur. I am not sure how to deal with it.

 

It may not be the most rational to focus on the symptom and how that should be dealt with : i.e. him catching your interest and how to deal with that.

 

It may be wiser to focus on the cause or the why: Why did he catch your interest? Is it because something is missing in your marriage? Has something emotionally died? Or it is because he is one of many that could catch your interest because you are not inherently monogamous? Do others catch your interest often, if not, what has shifted inside of you that opened up this possibility?

[jthorne]

Men are often disparaged for having affairs for the wrong reasons.

It`s perceived that men are merely dogs looking for tail and cannot control themselves.

This is for the most part entirely untrue, most men who have affairs do so because they are missing something in their marriage.

I disagree. People who cheat do so because there is something missing within themselves. No relationship is perfect, there will always be something missing.

 

My H at sometimes during the year has to work long hours. I wish he didn't. I wish he'd just come home and park his cute butt here on the couch with me, so we can snuggle while watching The Borgias that we tivo'd. Right now, he's missing, and I miss that. Do I go snuggle with someone else? Nope.

 

There's a diamond ring in an antique store that I want badly. Badly is an understatement actually. That ring is most definitely missing from my life. Am I going to rob the store? Of course not!

 

The OP probably needs to think about what's missing within herself to cause her behavior. Obviously, the OP is not interested in being faithful to her husband. It's pretty obvious in that the only posts she's responding to are the ones encouraging her to be unfaithful. She's also not interested in divorcing either. I don't support open marriages, but this might be a case where the subject should be broached.

 

However, I doubt that would work either, because it seems like the sneaking around is a major draw to the OP.

 

So sorry! Can't be much help to ya, OP. I just hope violence doesn't occur when one of your spouses finds out.

Edited April 25, 2011 by jthorne

[jthorne]

I believe monogamy is a romantic idea. I also believe the human race is capable of loving many. In fact, we are conditioned to love more than one parent, sibling, child and friend. So why forbid the possibility of loving or even just enjoying more than one "lover"? A bit of a contradiction to me. One that makes me understand why "cheating" is an age old epidemic.

Then why the need to keep your sexual trysts secret from your husband?

[fooled once]

I have a great deal respect for all comments, and I realize affairs are not praised by many...but the facts are these things have been happening since the beginning of time. Thus my unpopular opinion that the human race is not meant to monogomas.

So I reiterate that my hope was to hear from men who have endulged or are involved in an affair. I want to learn more about their thought process. I know you exsist...the stats proove it.

Isn't that, in part, why this forum is here?

 

Actually, this forum is for those who are struggling with the aftermath of infidelity; not seeking ways/answers on how to continue to be a cheater.

 

Another post that reinforces my belief that women in the west are far too selfish for marriage.

 

 

OP,

you are treating this affair like a casual friendship, you admit that your spouses know each other or at least run in the same circle yet your main concern is your affair and not the long term mental anguish this will cause your H, his W, and the children.

 

Please get a divorce. You are way too selfish to be married and flat out your H and family deserve better

 

Agree - tell your H that you are stuck on some guy from 9th grade - 9th grade!! I am always amazed at these people who can't let go of the past, who can't move past the past and who seem to have the same maturity level as a 15 year old.

 

Hey you're an adult capable of making your own choices. If you don't believe in monogamy then you should be free to pursue a non monogomas lifestyle. Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. However isn't your husband an adult also capable of making his own choices? Right now you are denying him the right to choose the lifestyle he wants by withholding information from him. Why not tell your husband that you no longer want to be a one man woman so that he too can find himself a little fun on the side or find himself a woman who only wants him? What does being non-monogamos have to do with being a lying deceitful cheat? Affairs are not praised because they involve lying and deceiving. Do you also not subscribe to the popular opinion that honesty is best?

 

Did you read any of the threads in this forum before you posted? I'm going to assume that you did not because if you had you would certainly know that this forum isn't here to assist people in cheating on their spouses or luring married people into affairs.

 

Great post!

 

I believe monogamy is a romantic idea. I also believe the human race is capable of loving many. In fact, we are conditioned to love more than one parent, sibling, child and friend. So why forbid the possibility of loving or even just enjoying more than one "lover"? A bit of a contradiction to me. One that makes me understand why "cheating" is an age old epidemic.

 

You can love whoever you want; but the issue is the lying, sneaking and betrayal. TELL YOUR SPOUSE and then go and cheat with whoever you want. Why did you get to decide how your spouse should live - why do you get to decide he stays with a cheater? And while your at it, tell his wife so she too can have the option to decide if she wants to stay with a cheater!

 

Why do people who cheat always throw up the "monogamy is not right" and "I can't help how many I love" excuse?

 

There is this legal action called a divorce. When you decide that your spouse isn't sexy enough, good enough, you don't love them enough, whatever...you get a divorce and then you can go do as you please. You don't sneak around and cheat. Totally disrespectful and cowardly behavior.

[nyrias]

You can love whoever you want; but the issue is the lying, sneaking and betrayal. TELL YOUR SPOUSE and then go and cheat with whoever you want. Why did you get to decide how your spouse should live - why do you get to decide he stays with a cheater? And while your at it, tell his wife so she too can have the option to decide if she wants to stay with a cheater!

 

Why do people who cheat always throw up the "monogamy is not right" and "I can't help how many I love" excuse?

 

There is this legal action called a divorce. When you decide that your spouse isn't sexy enough, good enough, you don't love them enough, whatever...you get a divorce and then you can go do as you please. You don't sneak around and cheat. Totally disrespectful and cowardly behavior.

 

Why go through the trouble of a divorce when they can ALREADY do as they please by cheating?

 

Things happen with a reason. No matter how much you disapprove of cheating, there is a certain logic to it.

 

No one can deny there are desires to have multiple partners (statistics overwhelming support this conclusion). There is also evidence that people lie from the dawn of time. Cheating is simply the easy way out.

 

Saying that it is wrong, or wishing very hard, is NOT going to make the phenomenon goes away. I totally understand those here, who have been hurt by affairs, voicing strong condemnation of the behavior. But from a scientific perspective, it is much more useful to dig a little deeper than say "it is wrong" and understand why.

[Memphis Raines]

You asked what course you should take with your lover in order to assure his continued interest in your relationship.

 

I believe showing you are interested in him will give him part of what he`s missing in his marriage.

Make him feel "wanted".

 

Men are often disparaged for having affairs for the wrong reasons.

It`s perceived that men are merely dogs looking for tail and cannot control themselves.

This is for the most part entirely untrue, most men who have affairs do so because they are missing something in their marriage.

 

I don`t condone it, I don`t recommend it

 

 

you're kidding right? you just DID recommend it to her. or was the recommendation to pursue him not a recommendation?

[dreamingoftigers]

Why go through the trouble of a divorce when they can ALREADY do as they please by cheating?

 

Things happen with a reason. No matter how much you disapprove of cheating, there is a certain logic to it.

 

No one can deny there are desires to have multiple partners (statistics overwhelming support this conclusion). There is also evidence that people lie from the dawn of time. Cheating is simply the easy way out.

 

Saying that it is wrong, or wishing very hard, is NOT going to make the phenomenon goes away. I totally understand those here, who have been hurt by affairs, voicing strong condemnation of the behavior. But from a scientific perspective, it is much more useful to dig a little deeper than say "it is wrong" and understand why.

 

The "whys" are great and all, and quite frankly I could easily quote you a nice chapter on the "whys." Regardless the action is very damaging, risky, disrespectful and to a totally different degree then most relational actions we can do.

 

Better to strongly discourage and reason against the behaviour then to try to find reasons to give it a "pass."

[2long]

Cheating is simply the easy way out.

 

Out of what?

 

Saying that it is wrong, or wishing very hard, is NOT going to make the phenomenon goes away. I totally understand those here, who have been hurt by affairs, voicing strong condemnation of the behavior. But from a scientific perspective, it is much more useful to dig a little deeper than say "it is wrong" and understand why.

 

I agree with this. Most BSs can't do this until years after discovering an affair, and well in2 recovery (or through it). The WS needs 2 understand this as well, because no progress can be made until they do.

 

The OP is still in the stage of trying 2 justify an affair. Until (or if) she decides 2 honor her commitments and chose 2 love and respect her family enough 2 be honest with them, the kind of understanding you describe can never come.

 

-ol' 2long

[nyrias]

The "whys" are great and all, and quite frankly I could easily quote you a nice chapter on the "whys." Regardless the action is very damaging, risky, disrespectful and to a totally different degree then most relational actions we can do.

 

Better to strongly discourage and reason against the behaviour then to try to find reasons to give it a "pass."

 

Without knowing WHY, you cannot effectively discourage it. It is pretty OBVIOUS that reasoning and lecturing is the LEAST effective in terms of modifying behavior.

 

There is a strong cultural condemnation of cheating. Heck, even the ten commandants has "You shall not commit adultery" .. that dated back to 2-3 millennium ago. I don't think your lecture is telling any potential cheater something he does not know.

 

Looking at statistics, i would say the use of education, or religion as a deterrent to cheating behavior is completely nonsensical. I don't know what the solution is but i certainly do know what it is not.

 

And i don't think you (and many here) are helping to discourage cheating. All you are doing is to lash out at it to make yourself feel better. Behavior is seldom modified when you work so hard to put the other side on the defensive.

[nyrias]

Out of what?

 

 

 

I agree with this. Most BSs can't do this until years after discovering an affair, and well in2 recovery (or through it). The WS needs 2 understand this as well, because no progress can be made until they do.

 

The OP is still in the stage of trying 2 justify an affair. Until (or if) she decides 2 honor her commitments and chose 2 love and respect her family enough 2 be honest with them, the kind of understanding you describe can never come.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Out of dealing with the desire to have multiple partners. Divorce is hard, confrontation, expensive, and requires work. Cheating is easy, under the radar and needs less effort. It is much "easier".

 

I also doubt that honoring commitments is in the human nature. We are conditioned to view lying as bad. But how many of us lies from time to time? Surely some we classify as "white lies", and "better for the good of whatever". But fundamentally, human lies. A reaction embedded in us in evolution. We do not lie all the time. We may not even be 100% selfish (i can point you to research that shows that), *but* we do sometimes.

[dreamingoftigers]

Without knowing WHY, you cannot effectively discourage it. It is pretty OBVIOUS that reasoning and lecturing is the LEAST effective in terms of modifying behavior.

 

There is a strong cultural condemnation of cheating. Heck, even the ten commandants has "You shall not commit adultery" .. that dated back to 2-3 millennium ago. I don't think your lecture is telling any potential cheater something he does not know.

 

Looking at statistics, i would say the use of education, or religion as a deterrent to cheating behavior is completely nonsensical. I don't know what the solution is but i certainly do know what it is not.

 

And i don't think you (and many here) are helping to discourage cheating. All you are doing is to lash out at it to make yourself feel better. Behavior is seldom modified when you work so hard to put the other side on the defensive.

 

1. Often when I have sought to indulge in impulsive behaviour there has been a 50-50% chance that a sensical argument could break the pattern. When someone has allowed their impulsive section of their brain to take control, they often use the reasoning portion to come up with the justification for it. If the justification can be undone, then there is a chance that the behaviour might be reconsidered.

 

2. But I may be edifying the damage that they are about to cause because another thing about impulsive behaviour is that often those engaging in it get "tunnel vision." I am very familiar with the concept having studied pornography/sexual addiction for quite some time.

 

You see, I doubt most adulterers are able to paint an accurate picture of the damage that they are inviting and it appears almost romantically rebellious to do what they are doing. Understandable but not realistic. Impulse-driven folk often forget things and leave out portions of reasoning because their brains are so hooked and tunnel-visioned on their actions. Talk to any addict and you will find the same behaviours.

 

Talking to someone about the bigger picture can exact change and remind them of what they are trying to block out. I doubt it will happen in this case because the poster has chosen not even to respond to many of the queries.

 

I do know that from personal experience that as a young impulsive suicidal that a kind nurse gave me some information that stuck and quelled a lot of my impusive actions for a short while. If education was completely ineffective, we as a people probably would have quit using it long ago. As such the majority of our population tends to avoid the riskier impulsive behaviours based on education alone.

 

4. I can honestly say that I have seen myself and other posters discourage it on these boards. It isn't anywhere near 100% but it does happen. Furthermore, you have not the ability to read my mind and therefore not the capability to ascertain my motivations. I do often try hard to consider my audience and get a feel for how entrenched they are. This poster is quite entrenched and so I figured that taking on a more iron-toned approach might be more effective. My presentation is never based on someone's behaviour alone, but in general on their perceived attitude.

 

I will tell you this. Infidelity is no longer the trigger that it once was to me. I see it now as part of the human condition involving impulsivity, conflict-avoidance and avoidance of pain. Also part of the reason why I encouraged this poster to examine her motivations much more closely. Hoping to kick in that reasoning center a little more. Believing what I do about infidelity, I do not wish to kick anyone down, in fact my sincere desire is that instead of triangulating that they deal with whatever conflict, pain or boredom they have either with their partner or solve their independence need in a healthier way.

 

BTW, lashing out failed to give me relief years ago.

[linwood]

I disagree. People who cheat do so because there is something missing within themselves. No relationship is perfect, there will always be something missing.

 

You have a point.

I should have said that a person cheats because they "perceive" something missing in their marriage.

Many times that perception is correct and many times it's wrong.

The other times I believe are cheaters just being dogs.

I don`t however believe a person who cheats is "always" missing something within themselves.

 

you're kidding right? you just DID recommend it to her. or was the recommendation to pursue him not a recommendation?

 

Not kidding at all, I don`t recommend cheating on your SO.

I was merely answering the question in the OP to the best of my ability.

It seems I`m one of the few who has stayed on topic in this thread.

The OP asked a question, I answered it honestly then advised her that I don`t recommend continuing her affair.

 

Pretty simple really.

 

In this sexual society that we live, it is easy to think he may be a "dog". (and I may be the "tail") But when I think about myself--where I was--where I am in my life-- I can also say that "filling a void" is part of the draw. He captured my interest, which is difficult to do. I never expected such a thing to occur. I am not sure how to deal with it.

 

Quite honestly it`s rare that any good comes of it.

If your affair should move into a consistent pattern of sexual liaison you will find yourself in a position to be caught.

When/if that happens the risk of losing both your families and your/his children's love/respect is multiplied exponentially with each tryst.

 

I understand the excitement of it, I understand the unique intimacy forged with a lover in such a situation and I understand all of that is difficult to forgo but the risk and cost is just too high in most cases.

 

What "void" does your lover fill that your husband does not?

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes you did stay on topic. You actually probably have the best chance of reaching her too.

[Memphis Raines]

Not kidding at all, I don`t recommend cheating on your SO.

I was merely answering the question in the OP to the best of my ability.

 

nice try.

 

you recommended that she pursue this guy, thereby cheating on her husband.

 

 

It seems I`m one of the few who has stayed on topic in this thread.

The OP asked a question, I answered it honestly then advised her that I don`t recommend continuing her affair.

 

Pretty simple really.

 

pretty simple? that you advised her to pursue her affair partner.......but you don't recommend it. If you don't recommend it, you wouldn't advise her to pursue.

 

sorry, but you have been caught in a contradiction.

[Memphis Raines]

Yes you did stay on topic. You actually probably have the best chance of reaching her too.

 

is that because she more than likely wants someone to tell her to go for it? no matter how bad that advice may be?

[linwood]

 

sorry, but you have been caught in a contradiction.

 

You should actually read my posts in this thread then go look up the meaning of the word "contradiction".

 

Not everyone sees the world in perfect black & white.

[linwood]

I have a great deal respect for all comments, and I realize affairs are not praised by many...but the facts are these things have been happening since the beginning of time. Thus my unpopular opinion that the human race is not meant to monogomas.

 

It`s true humans have not evolved for monogamy.

 

This is overall the best argument against monogamy.

 

Find me an evolutionary biologist who publishes a paper saying we are wired for monogamy and I`ll show you a biologist who got his/her PHD at a diploma mill.

 

However, we aren`t wired for most of the cultural traits we hold dearest, the traits that brought us well past any other animal on this planet.

 

We aren`t wired to live in the compact city/cultures that we live in.

Yet we live in them and thrive in them.

We aren`t wired to care for our young for decades (Men aren`t wired to care for young at all).

Yet we do care for our young for decades and because of this they are able to thrive in those city/cultures we live in.

We aren`t wired to eat, farm, consume most of the things we consume.

Yet these things have led to our species dominating this planet for millennia.

We aren`t wired for the many social constructs that keep us and our families safe within our cultures.

Yet without these social constructs the rule would be might makes right and most of us would be at the mercy of warlords.

 

Humans are where we are because we had one little evolutionary advantage that allowed us to go waaaaayyy beyond what our biology ever intended.

 

Our intelligence enabled us to overcome our animalistic evolutionary urges to build something great (arguably) and to make it safe to live within it.

 

We are at a point where our evolutionary biology no longer drives our culture.

Our culture now drives our evolution.

This is an amazing thing if you think about it.

 

If we can`t overcome our most basic animalistic urges we`re really nothing more than primates.

 

I like to think we`re more than that but I`m biased.

 

So I reiterate that my hope was to hear from men who have endulged or are involved in an affair. I want to learn more about their thought process. I know you exsist...the stats proove it.

Isn't that, in part, why this forum is here?

 

There isn`t much to that thought process.

His body is telling him he wants you.

His mind is telling him you`re dangerous as hell as far as his life goes.(Wife/kids)

He will probably try to find a way to have you and mitigate the danger.

 

Pursuing him will get you more from him.

Pursuing him to hard will push him away from you out of fear.

The best thing for you to do to continue this affair is to simply be available to him.

 

I`m more interested in the "void" you speak of that he fills.

[dreamingoftigers]

is that because she more than likely wants someone to tell her to go for it? no matter how bad that advice may be?

 

Yes because in a sense he is telling her the answers to her questions and how to get the object of her desires. That will resonate with her most likely. Humans tend to trust what resonates with them on an emotional level. That may open her to other things that he has to say.

 

Often I will try somewhat to resonate/empathize with a poster, but I have limitations on what I can perceive their position to be.

[2long]

Out of dealing with the desire to have multiple partners. Divorce is hard, confrontation, expensive, and requires work. Cheating is easy, under the radar and needs less effort. It is much "easier".

 

That's only because it's procrastination. "Hard work often pays off over time, but procrastination always pays off now." -despair.com

 

I also doubt that honoring commitments is in the human nature. We are conditioned to view lying as bad. But how many of us lies from time to time? Surely some we classify as "white lies", and "better for the good of whatever". But fundamentally, human lies. A reaction embedded in us in evolution. We do not lie all the time. We may not even be 100% selfish (i can point you to research that shows that), *but* we do sometimes.

 

I think that the evolution of our intelligence over time is equally important. I think we're evolving greater empathy for others, which probably would include making commitments that we at least have the good intentions 2 honor (or we wouldn't make them).

 

That, 2 me, is the best of human na2re, and disallowing it in order 2 explain or justify rampant lying or cheating seems like a cop-out.

 

-ol' 2long

[Memphis Raines]

You should actually read my posts in this thread then go look up the meaning of the word "contradiction".

 

Not everyone sees the world in perfect black & white.

 

look it up yourself for you do not know the meaning of the word.

 

the meaning is that there is an inconsistency in your advise/recommendation.

 

you don't recommend that she cheats, then you turn around and advise her to cheat.

 

that is an inconsistency/contradiction.

 

here endeth ENG 101

[linwood]

look it up yourself for you do not know the meaning of the word.

 

the meaning is that there is an inconsistency in your advise/recommendation.

 

you don't recommend that she cheats, then you turn around and advise her to cheat.

 

that is an inconsistency/contradiction.

 

here endeth ENG 101

 

:facepalm:

[myjot]

Yes you did stay on topic. You actually probably have the best chance of reaching her too.

 

you have all reached me in one way or another.