Just Lost It. Feel So Ashamed.

[PollyIvy]

I backed my car into the garage door and broke it, and something went 'snap'. I went down to H's office and told him I wanted him OUT. I didn't make a big scene, but it was a scene.

Embarrassing H at work is unforgivable.

He's going to hate me forever now.

I feel so ashamed of myself.

The trigger was this: on Saturday I found a secret folder of photos of his EA (2.5 years long) lady. I cried for 3 days, and now this.

I've been doing a 180 for 5 weeks - dressing up, looking good, laughing with the kids, being pleasant, going out a lot with friends - and I have just thrown it all away.

I feel so guilty, so stupid. And only 3 more weeks til we separate.

[willowthewisp]

No you haven't, if anything you have shown him you won't be his doormat anymore, turned the tables, 180 exactly!

 

Don't back down on it now, stay resolved, he if asks if you want out permanently just say, no, I want to work on our marriage but I WILL BE OK WITHOUT YOU AND I INTEND TO MOVE ON, NOT HANG ABOUT WAITING FOR YOU TO CALL THE SHOTS.

 

That, IS the 180. Good for you Polly.

[PollyIvy]

Wow - I see what you mean. Maybe I didn't make an ass of myself after all....

[dreamingoftigers]

He's an ass, don't worry too much about it....

[You Go Girl]

Polly,

I think you did the entirely natural thing. You let the natural true feelings show.

You didn't do a darn thing wrong. You did it exactly right.

[dreamingoftigers]

It sounds like you may need to do more of this kind of stuff. Sounds like you have been holding back for a long time.

[tojaz]

Polly, I must post this on every thread I respond to, but 180/NC and all the rest are not hard and fast laws to follow. They have to be adapted to your personal situation, lots of people come here and post how they "slipped up" or "lost it". Thats not the case most of the time. Some times you have to follow your instincts and if that means letting him have it, then by all means. You and only you know whats right for your situation because your the one living it, the people here are just sharing their experiences so that you can make educated decisions.

 

Willow and DOT have it spot on, many times its the "slip ups" that wind up making the most impact.

 

TOJAZ

[PollyIvy]

Thank you for the support and wise words.

Turns out you guys were right. I did not 'blow' the 180 at all.

Now he is out of the house, and I feel so much better. And he is still saying nasty things, but he is sooo tired and deflated.

I said very matter-of-factly that since he doesn't talk to me at home, I am forced to go to his office. And now I'm asking financial questions via email - no face-to-face conversation on THAT topic.

 

He is definitely surprised that I haven't back-tracked on my position, and asked him back. His stance is this: he is angry at me and can't stand me because of what I've done to him - kicked him out of the house, and next I'm taking his children away from him. But what he forgets is that he is angry at me ANYWAY, and has been crazy-angry at me for 6 months straight. So the only difference for me is that I don't have to confront the hostility at home, which is an improvement.

[Yasuandio]

While you were at it, I certainly hope you followed the advice of Marriage Builders, and, EXPOSED the EA to any colleagues that were within the vicenity.

 

I can understand that you are feeling a bit ashamed, since you did not exactly have an appointment, and you kinda barged in. But it is never too late to express one's regrets when we make a mistake, as we are only human.

 

Say, I think I just got a great idea that will address your feelings, and also get you on track with the Marriage Builders plan! Perhaps you might copy the EA file you located and mail it to his boss, with a short explanation for your unscheduled visit, including a nice apology. What cha think about that?

[PollyIvy]

While you were at it, I certainly hope you followed the advice of Marriage Builders, and, EXPOSED the EA to any colleagues that were within the vicenity.

 

I can understand that you are feeling a bit ashamed, since you did not exactly have an appointment, and you kinda barged in. But it is never too late to express one's regrets when we make a mistake, as we are only human.

 

Say, I think I just got a great idea that will address your feelings, and also get you on track with the Marriage Builders plan! Perhaps you might copy the EA file you located and mail it to his boss, with a short explanation for your unscheduled visit, including a nice apology. What cha think about that?

 

Oooo, you are evil! I will read up on the Marriage Builders thing. I have done a little bit of exposing... Thanks to the people on LS, I've decided not to hide things anymore to protect his reputation.

[trippi1432]

Nice one Yas!! LOL!!

[mitchell]

Stay strong, Polly. You will get through this!

[Yasuandio]

Oooo, you are evil! I will read up on the Marriage Builders thing. I have done a little bit of exposing... Thanks to the people on LS, I've decided not to hide things anymore to protect his reputation.

 

Ms. Polly,

 

There's no worries about being perceived as evil in a case like this! My concern was only to set the record straight so to elivate any feelings of "shame" you are experiencing.

 

Following Marriage Builder's recommendation can also serve to set the record straight on any lingering questions and/or misperceptions your visit may have stimulated.

 

If you were running the business, wouldn't you want all the facts so you could fully understand the little disruption in the work place that occurred?

 

I'll bet cha anything his explanation to colleagues was that you were "PMSing," or "Crazy," "Psychotic," "Unstable," and/or "Going Nuts." Then, he likely pulled the "Poor Me" routine to get everyone to have sympathy for his sorry, lying as_. Do you think he told everyone the truth? That he deserved what he got, and why? Right. Everyone at his works thinks and believes that you have like totally Lost your marbles. What other explanation could he offer? (It sure couldn't have given the truth, right?) How does that perspective make you feel?

 

Is "Honesty is the Best Policy?" This is the question. And the answer is Yes, No, and Sometimes. Should you use "Honesty" as a method to even the score? Or mess someone up real good? This is an ethical/moral decision.

 

Here is my stance -- and it is based on only what I think is an obvious conclusion (and that doesn't make me necessarily correct). It just really hacks me off when a woman speaks her mind, brings the issue out in the open -- and the perp goes with the "nuts or sluts" defense. I really don't know for a fact if your husband did that or not. But I don't think it takes a rocket scienctist to figure it out, especially if he is not now being apologetic or at least decent, civil, and communicative.

 

On the other hand, you are trying to save your marriage. And if that's what it takes to get his attention, then that's what it takes.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Yasuandio

[PollyIvy]

Thanks. At work he went for a stony, dignified silence. But to me... he accused ME of being obsessed with his EA lady.

He's at that stage where he makes everything up, he's completely irrational, and he doesn't give a sh*t.

He was so angry yesterday that I'd spoken to his mom. He told me he doesn't care about anything that has to do with me and he is going to divorce me. I said, 'Why?' but there is never any answer to that.

I wish he'd get a diagnosis, I think there is something really 'off'. He's kinda freaking me out.

[Yasuandio]

Thanks. At work he went for a stony, dignified silence. But to me... he accused ME of being obsessed with his EA lady.

He's at that stage where he makes everything up, he's completely irrational, and he doesn't give a sh*t.

He was so angry yesterday that I'd spoken to his mom. He told me he doesn't care about anything that has to do with me and he is going to divorce me. I said, 'Why?' but there is never any answer to that.

I wish he'd get a diagnosis, I think there is something really 'off'. He's kinda freaking me out.

 

Ms. Pollyivy,

 

If you had an EA go'in on, would he be obsessed with it? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Downtown]

Yeah Downtown, I've been married to Dr. Jeckyll/Mr Hyde for 15 years. I wish he would get a diagnosis. But apparently it's easier to destroy your marriage, break up the family, screw up the kids, and move as far away as possible, than to face up to the fact that you might have a little problemo... [from your post in Katt's thread].

PollyIvy, I'm glad you found my posts about BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) helpful. Is that because you have spotted several strong BPD traits in your H's behavior? If so, what actions seems to suggest that? I ask because I've read through about fifty of your posts and find little detail about what is dysfunctional about him. The anger, of course, is a red flag. But what are the usual triggers for that anger? When did it start appearing in your relationship? Does he exhibit temper tantrums lasting about five hours? Or, rather, do his dark moods hang on for many weeks unending?

[PollyIvy]

Downtown,

Everything you have written clicks with me. I've always known there was 'something' about him, but I thought it was some sort of a depressive cycle with raging irritability, despondant TV watching, and 'normal' being the cycles. This has been for 15 years.

 

This is him:

 

Lack of empathy (this is the *only* thing that has been diagnosed professionally)

Hair-trigger emotional reactions

Angry. Hostile. - Just at home, never in professional or social situations.

Passive-aggressive

Avoidant (he leaves the room when I speak, has been doing that for 7 years)

Can't ever 'remember' anything he's said

Silent treatment (this can go on for weeks)

Cheating

Twists my words around, gaslighting

Mood Swings

When he's mad at me, he cannot see me as a whole person, I'm 100% bad. He sees other people this way, too. All good or all bad.

Verbally abusive (to me and one of our children) from the instant anger attacks

Projects (this is so flagrant at the moment, it's *almost* comical. but then again, not at all...)

 

Otherwise, he blames, mocks, is comtemptuous, lies, conversations go around in bewildering circles (coupled with him walking in and out of the room - cannot sit and converse, it makes me dizzy), shames one of our kids constantly.

 

He has a very solid career, and is respected by all. We have never argued about sex or money. But he cut off our sex life last year, because.... well, there is never a reason for anything. He is very duty-bound and responsible with the children, although he scapegoats the eldest. He and I are very social - everything is all right when we are with others. So we socialize a lot. But when we leave the dinner party - smiling and hugging everyone - he immediately switches to a stony silence in the car.

He cannot show empathy, he can only show correctness. And finally, this: he does not trust ANYBODY.

[Downtown]

PollyIvy, you are right, those are classic BPD traits. Of course, only a professional can determine whether they are sufficiently severe to meet the diagnostic criteria. It is highly unlikely, however, that will ever happen. First of all, it is rare for a BPDer to go to a therapist and, if he does, it will be easy for him to hide it during the 50-minute, once-weekly meetings. Because a BPDer doesn't know who he really is, he has spent a lifetime learning to behave as he is expected to act -- when it suits him to do so.

 

Second, even if he reveals his behavior and the therapist diagnoses BPD, therapists are loath to tell the high functioning BPDers like your H. Therapists know the high functioning client almost certainly will quit therapy on hearing such a dreaded diagnosis. Moreover, therapists know that revealing the true diagnosis means very little -- and most likely none -- of the treatment costs will be covered by insurance.

 

That said, it really does not matter whether he is diagnosed or not. You already know for certain he has all nine BPD traits. All of us do. And you already know that some of those traits are at such a high level that they are undermining your marriage. That is, you can be just as miserable with a man whose dysfunctional meets 90% of the diagnostic criteria for "having BPD" as with a man meeting 100% of it. One important failing of the current diagnostic manual (DSM-IV) is that it takes a binary (i.e., 0,1) approach, wherein a client is diagnosed as either having a disorder or not. The APA is correcting that mistake -- adopting a graduated scale for disorder severity -- in the new manual scheduled for release in 2013.

 

Lack of empathy. Check. BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) have a distorted perception of your intentions and motivations.

 

Hair-trigger emotional reactions. Check. Unlike the mood changes caused by bipolar disorder (which take two weeks to build up), a BPDer's mood typically changes in only 10 seconds, because it is "event triggered." This is possible because the enormous rage does not have to be created. It is already there. It's been there, deep inside him, since early childhood. All that is needed, then, is a minor comment or action to trigger its release. The most common triggers are anything that arouses his two great fears: engulfment and abandonment.

 

Mood swings. A substantial share of BPDers (perhaps 20% or so) also suffer from bipolar disorder. Most don't because BPD is about four times more prevalent than bipolar in the general population. With bipolar, the moods typically take about two weeks to develop and last for weeks (far different than the 10 second development for BPD rages and the 5 hour length of the tantrum). Another difference is frequency. With bipolar, a frequency of four times a year is considered "rapid cycling." With BPD, four mood changes can easily occur in a week, not a year. With my exW, for example, I usually saw a temper tantrum about once or twice a month.

 

Angry and verbally abusive -- but just at home, never in professional or social situations. Check. The great irony with high functioning BPDers is that the only people capable of triggering their rage are those who are intimate with them (thus threatening engulfment) and those in a loving LTR with them (thus threatening abandonment). Clearly, strangers, casual friends, and business associates pose no threat whatsoever. Heaven help them, however, if they make the mistake of drawing close. This is why it is common to see a HF BPDer go into a field like nursing or social work -- where he treats folks with generosity and caring all day long -- and then go home to abuse the only people who love him.

 

Passive-aggressive, silent treatment, and avoidant. Of the HF BPDers, only a small portion exhibit these traits all the time. It occurs because they turn their anger inward instead of outward. This small minority, called "quiet borderlines," punish you not by yelling but, rather, by icy withdrawal, sulking, poor-little-me pity parties, and other passive-aggressive behavior. This does not mean, however, you never see it with the much larger "acting out" group. Being unstable, they will occasionally flip back and forth between acting out and acting in. (Indeed, we "Nons" occasionally do both of those behaviors too -- albeit far less often -- which is why it is so easy for us to recognize it when it occurs).

Can't 'remember' anything he's said. Most likely, part of that is outright lying and part is "splitting" (i.e., dissociation). My exW was that way too. I would have driven myself insane if I had tried to separate all the lies from the promises and statements she had actually forgotten. To escape the painful reality of his day to day existence, your H likely does a lot of day dreaming (which is why one of the first things a therapist would teach him is how to stay in the moment). You experience this -- as I explained in one of my posts you likely read -- when you are driving and suddenly realize you cannot remember a thing about the last ten minutes, not even the three lighted intersections you drove through. Likewise, your H often cannot recall events and statements because -- in effect -- his subconscious was doing the "driving" and his conscious mind was a thousand miles away in a day dream.

 

Cheating. Having the emotional development of a four year old, a BPDer commonly applies a double standard to everything. That is, it is fine for him to cheat but not for you to do the same. Further, because he carries such enormous shame from childhood, it is very painful for him to even think of his actions as cheating. He therefore protects his fragile ego by blaming it on you, as though you had forced him to do it.

Projection so obvious it is comical. Although obvious to you, the projections are totally hidden from him because they occur in his subconscious -- allowing his conscious mind to fully accept them as "truth." The result is that, when he is thinking about cheating with a new woman, his conscious mind will experience the thought as a suspicion that YOU are thinking of cheating on him. Pretty nifty. Projection does wonders to protect fragile egos from reality in that way. That's why we all used this primitive emotional defense so frequently all the way through childhood.

 

Twists my words around, gaslighting. Check. This behavior is such a hallmark of BPDers that Nons have given it that name -- based on the classic 1944 movie, Gaslight, in which a young husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to get her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with the family jewels. Uuhh, you don't have any family jewels, do you?

 

When he's mad at me, he cannot see me as a whole person. He sees other people this way, too. All good or all bad. Check. As you already know, this is called all-or-nothing (black-white) thinking. One theory is that is is caused by the BPDer's inability to integrate the good and bad aspects of his personality into a coherent self concept when he was about four. This means that he has been stuck with thinking of himself -- not just other people -- as "all good" or "all bad." If true, this goes a long way toward explaining why a BPDer typically is loath to admit to a mistake or flaw.

 

Conversations go around in bewildering circles. When we experience intense emotions like anger, we all tend to rely far more heavily on our intuitive, angry, "inner child" and much less on our adult logic. Our emotions therefore distort and color our perceptions of other peoples' intentions. Yet, because we've all done this thousands of times, we learn not to trust our judgment when we are angry. This is why we usually keep our mouths shut, and fingers off the keys, until we have time to cool down. Indeed, we learn that trick pretty well before graduating high school.

 

In contrast, a BPDer never learned it because his emotional development was frozen at such a young age. Hence, for the very few BPDers who stay in a treatment program, one of the essential skills they will be taught is how to intellectually challenge their intense feelings (instead of accepting them as reflecting reality). Absent such training, your H will keep splitting every time he gets angry. When splitting, he is isolating (i.e., splitting off) his adult logic, forcing you to deal exclusively with his angry inner child.

 

You already are familiar with the expression, "Talk to the hand." Well, he is essentially saying, "Talk to the child."

With a BPDer, this outcome is unavoidable. Even when you find him in a calm, cheery mood, any mention of a sensitive subject triggers his anger to appear in ten seconds. That is, you have time to get only about half way through one sentence.

He does not trust ANYBODY. Absent years of treatment, a BPDer is incapable of trusting you. That is why you cannot possibly help him. He won't believe the advice you try to give him. And that is why you cannot have a real friendship with him, much less a real marriage. LTRs like friendship and marriage must be built on trust. And this is why it is so painful for caregivers like us to walk away from a sick loved one. For 15 years, we had to watch helplessly as they were flailing about, struggling to stay afloat, just five feet from shore. All that while, they would never trust us when -- a thousand times -- we said, "Please, honey, take my hand."

He is very duty-bound and responsible with the children. As a group, BPDers are good people. Their problem is not being bad but, rather, unstable -- which results in their exhibiting bad behavior when their perceptions of others are distorted. This is why BPD is called a "thought disorder." Of course, while this explains your H's behavior, it does not excuse it. You should hold him accountable for all of his actions. Otherwise, the small chance he has of confronting his behavior and learning to control it is completely wiped out. Simply stated, your walking on eggshells constitutes "enabling behavior" that is harmful to him as well as yourself.

 

I should know. Like you, I did it for 15 years. I therefore was struck by a therapist's remark that, of all the BPD relationships he had seen, they either last about 18 months or 15 years. They typically last up to 18 months, he said, when the Non partner has strong personal boundaries. The Non enjoys the wonderful 6 month honeymoon period and then is willing to spend an additional 6 to 12 months trying to restore the honeymoon conditions. Then she walks.

 

The relationship typically lasts about 15 years, he said, when the Non has weak personal boundaries. Such a person rarely walks out. Instead, the BPDer does because, as the years go by, he becomes increasingly resentful that his Non spouse is unable to make him happy -- and may become increasingly fearful of abandonment as his looks and health start to fade. I mention this, PollyIvy, because year 15 seems to represent a milestone in your life too.