Lorelei_Lane Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Stress has been driving me mad lately, and when I'm stressed out I think about my husband's affair a lot. He has changed so much, been a better husband, that it's really not fair when I think about the past and I bring it up... that he gets more attitude from me. But, he takes it in stride. He tells me that he knows he screwed up, and my anger and hurt reminds him never to do it again. He hated what he did to me, which is why I stuck it out. I haven't regretted it. Most of my anger left is over what this "supposed" best friend did to me. My husband is not innocent at all of what he did, but the emotional affair is just as much her fault as it is his, especially since she was supposed to be my friend. I just get so angry when I think about how she got to walk away with no scratches or bruises from the whole situation. She still got to keep her relationship intact until she found a new one, because she never told him. She hasn't run into the financial problems that my husband and I have had to face because she comes from a family with money and can do whatever she wants, when she wants. I always tell myself that one day Karma will catch up to her, but I think it decided to keep messing with me a little while longer. lol I know that things will change for me and my husband, that our lives will get better, but I wish she would suffer too, damnit.
Spark1111 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Stress has been driving me mad lately, and when I'm stressed out I think about my husband's affair a lot. He has changed so much, been a better husband, that it's really not fair when I think about the past and I bring it up... that he gets more attitude from me. But, he takes it in stride. He tells me that he knows he screwed up, and my anger and hurt reminds him never to do it again. He hated what he did to me, which is why I stuck it out. I haven't regretted it. Most of my anger left is over what this "supposed" best friend did to me. My husband is not innocent at all of what he did, but the emotional affair is just as much her fault as it is his, especially since she was supposed to be my friend. I just get so angry when I think about how she got to walk away with no scratches or bruises from the whole situation. She still got to keep her relationship intact until she found a new one, because she never told him. She hasn't run into the financial problems that my husband and I have had to face because she comes from a family with money and can do whatever she wants, when she wants. I always tell myself that one day Karma will catch up to her, but I think it decided to keep messing with me a little while longer. lol I know that things will change for me and my husband, that our lives will get better, but I wish she would suffer too, damnit. I think what you are feeling is normal. I felt that way too, for quite awhile. Not initially, but over time. My anger was directed solely at him. I put that man through hell every day for a long time over the pain he caused me, us, our kids, our history. But then one day, there it was....I could not wrap my head around a woman who would even engage with a MM. At DDAy, she kind of dropped him like a hot potato for a couple of weeks, afraid our fallout would splash on her I guess. When I did not commit a single act of crazy revenge against her, because I would never hurt a child, not even her child...she started to re-initiate contact with him until he told her not to call, not even as a friend since they could never be friends. But she did not experience the consequences he did. She is now on another relationship and is somewhat bored with the new BF, not as exciting as an affair, I surmise, or as drama-filled as her acrimonious divorce. She hates and blames others. Look, here is the karma: Wherever you go, there you are. If you do not face any consequences that force you to look inside and examine and change the motivations that led you to hurt others, your life will not change. That can either mean continued unsuccesful relationships, low self-esteem, or needing others to make you happy,or always blaming others for your own anger and problems.
Baroness67 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I share the belief that it's natural for the stress and old grievances to pop up from time to time. If only one could find perfect resolution, how awesome would that be? But that's not life. You can only accept and move on, understanding that you will never completely forget. That's one reason why I did not demand the "coming clean" thing, I didn't want the details. When I had people ask me for the details, I said that I didn't know all of them. That I wasn't there. They asked, don't you want to know? And I said, nope. My mental real estate is precious. That any portion of it is now occupied by images against my will makes me upset in itself. I'm not giving any more of it away. I don't know what the OW is doing these days. I don't ask, and I say that even as I had lunch the other day with someone who works with her. I don't ask. I wouldn't even want the fact that I had asked to get back to her. I don't know that I believe in Karma, but I do think you can increase your odds of having good in your life when you consistently put it out there. There are no guarantees and some of us still get burned, but there's one sure way to get burned, and that's to start and play with fire.
freestyle Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Unfortunately, Lorelei, you got the worst slap of all. Betrayal by your romantic partner does feel like a mortal wound--- but when the other party is a close trusted friend--IMO, it compounds the pain exponentially. For your friend to have crossed that line..........:sick::mad: It makes everything even worse--the intrusive mind movies afterwards, the feelings of humiliation, the damage to one's ability to trust..... I only experienced that on a small scale--she was a co-corker/friend, not a bff, and the guy was someone I'd only been dating for a few months. So, I didn't have lots of years, or emotionally currency invested.Still, the feeling was sickening.I felt like I'd been stabbed in the heart (by him) and the back (by her) all at the same time. It's hard for me to even fathom going through that after being invested in a marriage.............. Deliberate mate-poaching women can be bad enough, but one who goes after a girlfriend's man---well, there should be a special place in hell for them, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sooooo sorry you had to go through that .Our girlfriends are supposed to be our rocks--the person who's always there for us, even if our boyfriends/husbands come and go...I think it might even hurt worse to be betrayed by a supposed friend. You are completely justified in feeling whatever you're feeling at this point---fury, rage,deep, deep sadness. It's a normal reaction to what you've been through---don't let anyone invalidate that. You'll need to process this at whatever pace suits you---anyone suggesting that you "need to move on, already" doesn't understand just how badly a double betrayal can affect a person.
Author Lorelei_Lane Posted April 24, 2011 Author Posted April 24, 2011 Thank you guys so much for your responses, you all have said such wonderful things that have really touched me. But, I'm gonna point one of you out in particular, no offense to the rest of you. It makes everything even worse--the intrusive mind movies afterwards, the feelings of humiliation, the damage to one's ability to trust..... This touched me so deeply Freestyle, I wanted you to know that. I also made me think of something that happened a year afterwards. After the betrayal a couple of years ago, I finally found another job after being laid off for a few months. I started working there the same day as another girl, who was a few years older than me. We both were very quiet and to ourselves, didn't discuss too much of our personal lives with each other or any of the other girls in our group. After about six months though, that changed. We started talking more often, becoming more close. Eventually a friendship developed. We both started to be more open about why we were so hesitant to trust. I eventually spilled the beans about the EA my husband had with someone I had considered to be my best friend. In talking to her about it, it came up in conversation about how I don't feel comfortable about my friends being around my husband and things like that. I started crying when she said the following words to me: "What she did was unforgivable, I agree. But if I were ever in a situation where your husband were to tell me he had feelings for me, I would tell you immediately. I would NEVER do that to you, you're my friend and I care about you." It made me cry like a baby. I remember exactly my thought process. I knew she was telling the truth, I knew right then and there she was a TRUE friend. I realized at the same time that the girl I thought had been my friend, really wasn't. It devastates me to realize that someone I really had cared about didn't care about me in return. I just wish I could make this girl see what she did, see how she hurt me. Something tells me she's too selfish to ever see it.
freestyle Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Thank you guys so much for your responses, you all have said such wonderful things that have really touched me. But, I'm gonna point one of you out in particular, no offense to the rest of you. This touched me so deeply Freestyle, I wanted you to know that. I also made me think of something that happened a year afterwards. After the betrayal a couple of years ago, I finally found another job after being laid off for a few months. I started working there the same day as another girl, who was a few years older than me. We both were very quiet and to ourselves, didn't discuss too much of our personal lives with each other or any of the other girls in our group. After about six months though, that changed. We started talking more often, becoming more close. Eventually a friendship developed. We both started to be more open about why we were so hesitant to trust. I eventually spilled the beans about the EA my husband had with someone I had considered to be my best friend. In talking to her about it, it came up in conversation about how I don't feel comfortable about my friends being around my husband and things like that. I started crying when she said the following words to me: "What she did was unforgivable, I agree. But if I were ever in a situation where your husband were to tell me he had feelings for me, I would tell you immediately. I would NEVER do that to you, you're my friend and I care about you." It made me cry like a baby. I remember exactly my thought process. I knew she was telling the truth, I knew right then and there she was a TRUE friend. I realized at the same time that the girl I thought had been my friend, really wasn't. It devastates me to realize that someone I really had cared about didn't care about me in return. I just wish I could make this girl see what she did, see how she hurt me. Something tells me she's too selfish to ever see it. I've come to the realization that it takes a woman who's very badly broken inside to cross that line. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but maybe it helps to explain it a little bit. My speculation is that there might be very deeply seated unresolved childhood issues with sibling rivalry, or having to compete with Mommy for Daddy's attention and affection.......Also being able to turn the head of another woman's man is a huge ego boost for someone with self-esteem issues. I just had to cut loose my best girlfriend of over a decade for this kind of behavior. I refrained from judging her the first time she was an OW--She finally broke free, and I thought she'd learned her lesson.Then she confessed to a ONS with another guy in our extended circle, who did have a long-term gf. She justified it by saying they were on the verge of splitting up--he just hadn't found a new place to live yet. It bothered me to no end that in the case she knew the guy's gf---I'd seen them being friendly and chatting when we were all out at the same place.Obviously , the information that the guy's gf divulged got used against her.... The icing on the cake came just recently--my best male friend (who's married) confessed to me that she came on to him, and tried very hard to seduce him.He turned her down, and shortly after that , she friended his wife on Facebook.... Was she just trying to keep tabs on his marriage---hoping to creep in through the backdoor? Whatever was going through her head, I can't associate with someone who would cross that line. I only hope she eventually gets her head on straight, for her own sake.:(I only learned this a week ago, and I'm still reeling from the shock. This was someone I thought I knew---for a decade. She was the friend I turned to for emotional support when my SO had an EA a few years back---and out of the blue, she started getting short with me, and "was 'tired of hearing about it"".........I felt guilty, as if I'd overburdened her, so I quit turning to her for support. (though I couldn't help but feel a little resentful, I spent 5 years being her support when she was the OW who couldn't break free....) Turns out the time she started getting short with me, was the same time period that she was pursuing my best male friend--go figure. It all suddenly makes sense. She didn't want to hear about how much pain a betrayed person goes through from an EA---I guess that hit a little too close to home for her. At least , now I know that it wasn't my fault she was getting short with me, and pulling away from me. I'd been leaning on her for support, but gently--I wasn't blowing up her phone daily, or anything.I was still fun to go out with---(I've always been able to leave the drama behind for evening out, and be in the moment) I just expected my best girlfriend to be there for me, so it hurt very deeply when she started shutting me out, without much explanation...........I spent months beating myself up, thinking I was a lousy friend.Now after learning the truth, I just feel kinda sick to my stomach, and super pissed off. She didn't go after my guy, but she tried to mess up my best guy friend's marriage, with no regard for the fallout to others -his wife, his son, our friendship.Yep, some women are very messed up. Funny thing is, if you met her , you'd think she was the nicest person in the world......she had me fooled for a long time.I resent feeling like I was duped. I don't know if you can ever make her see what she did, Lorelei---I think when people are that messed up, they can't face themselves. I think there's low self-esteem to begin with, so they aren't capable of owning their crap.So their moral compass is ever spinning. I think the best we can hope for is the karma bus taking them for a lesson-learning ride---if it happens to them, then maybe they'll understand.Some people have empathy naturally, others have to learn from harsh experience.....I actually said to my male friend, "I hope her new guy cheats on her." (she's engaged now) He was shocked that I would say something so harsh, but the way I saw it, she's left a huge trail of destruction in her wake, showing no regard for the emotional consequences to others---maybe she has to learn from experience what she was willing to dish out to others, just to get her own needs met. It isn't fair that she gets to traipse off into the sunset with no consequences...."tra-la-la"......I'll leave her to her karma, though, I've washed my hands of her. I'm glad you were able to make a new friendship with a woman--I believe that those sisterhood friendships are vital to us women. There's things we can share with a sister, that we just can't discuss with a man. And it's really hard to trust a female friend again, after being betrayed by one--but true sisters are out there, it's just a matter of vetting very carefully...... (BTW, love the new avatar...)
Author Lorelei_Lane Posted April 24, 2011 Author Posted April 24, 2011 When I first joined the site, I used to try to look and see if she had posted here about what she had done... but I realized she wouldn't have done that because it would have interfered with the way she compartmentalizes what she's done to people. I kept quiet about what had happened with me at first because I wanted to try to keep it off the boards for her to see. For anyone who could have figured out who I actually was to see. Now I realize, I want her to find it. I want her to see what the hell she has done. I'm not the same person I was before all of this happened. I trusted people to be good people, I trusted people to keep their word. Now people that have known me for years tell me I'm secretive, I don't talk about things anymore. I listen to other people, give them advice, but I never open my mouth. What she did ruined a lot of relationships for me. All the while she gets to move on and be happy. She doesn't have to struggle with what she did. She stayed with the guy she cheated on with my husband until she found a new piece of candy, then moved onto him. She never stays single for long. She always has a grasp on the next guy before she dumps the previous one. All the while she convinces all of her exs that she's single, she's not seeing anyone. There was one I talked to for awhile that she had convinced her boyfriend of two years was gay and that she wasn't seeing anyone. Seriously, this girl has an issue! A lot of them actually. Honestly, I knew a few of her childhood traumas that has made her this way, but I was always understanding. I was ALWAYS there for her. Then she used what I said to her in CONFIDENCE against me. First, in meddling in my relationship. Things my husband has told me she said devastates me, because she lied to my face. A couple of weeks into their little love fest, he tried to end things. Told her he needed to spend more time on me and our life. She jumped my ass that night saying that I should know that she "would never do that to you, ****" (I'm editing out my name). Two weeks later, I read some texts from her on his phone, and I lost it. This girl who told me she would never do that to me, the same one that HELPED ME MOVE TO BE WITH HIM, was cyber f*cking him behind my back. All the while lying to my face about it. Honestly, I'm glad we live in a completely different state from her, because had this affair been physical, I would have never come back to him. It was one thing that he was emotionally involved with her, but had he actually had sex with her, I would have washed my hands of both of them. She must think he never told me everything, because after I confronted her the last time, she was still lying about everything. She used information that I had told her in confidence about him against him because she was mad at him, but all that information did was tarnish his trust in me. I had read something private of his and she used that against him/me when he told her he was going to try to work things out with me. She also took things I said about a few mutual friends and told them, causing a problem between me and those people. I was able to fix one of them, explained the full conversation and why she was doing that... he found out she was my husband's affair partner and said he was "disappointed" in her. He still would have f*cked her if he could. She has this way with people I guess. The last time I talked to her, she kept saying how sorry she was, how it was her cross to bear, how she missed me and how she knew she was the reason she lost my friendship... but how can I trust she really felt that way when she lied to me for so long? I wish I could understand WHY me? Why MY husband? She could have any guy she wanted, why did she go ahead and wait until we had gotten married, then got really close to him like that? It hurts so much still to think about. My husband thinks she's trash. That she's troubled and he hates what he did. He realized she was such a liar after everything was said and done and especially after we both went no contact with her, but she sent little messages every once in a while to me only about how she missed me. It took him a while to deal with that hurt, that understanding that he almost threw away something amazing for something that wasn't worth a damn. He can tell when she's on my mind and he reminds me that she was the worst kind of friend, the worst kind of person. Why, when he thought he loved her, can he now see how horrible she is and how fake those feelings were, when I can't let go of how I felt about our friendship before all this? I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that I'm the one who should hate her or even be completely indifferent to her, but I'm not. He never thinks about her. If she's brought up in conversation, he tells me she doesn't hold a candle to me. I want to be indifferent to her too. I want her to not be on my mind, not matter anymore. But somehow I can't find a way to get rid of her and it hurts so damn much. It's been almost two years damnit, I want to let go.
StoneCold Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 why dont you focus on yourself and your own relationship rather than worrying about others
freestyle Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Wow----it's really a burn when your confidence gets used against you like that. That happened in my scenario years ago, too. ggrrrrrr! It DOES affect your capacity for trust, and can damage all your relationships. People don't understand why you become guarded, and untrusting.And those who aren't aware of what happened may take it personally. The domino effect can be far-reaching, unfortunately. Finding out after the fact-- that you were essentially feeding a woman ammunition to use against you, to attempt to break up your marriage/relationship--- is definitely an extra layer of anger.When my SO had his EA, the woman (an old friend of his) tried that the very first time I met her--fortunately, I was smart enough not to take the bait. I'd never met her before, so I had no reason to trust her--so my alarm bells went off as soon as she started casting aspersions on my SO's character. I recognized it as an attempt at triangulation, so I didn't give her anything to use against me.(although with that woman, knowing what I know of her, she probably fabricated stuff that I 'supposedly' said, to try to drive a wedge between my SO and myself. ) One thing I noticed in your story (and mine) is that a lot of the boxes are ticked for the behaviors of someone with HPD . (Histrionic Personality Disorder) The triangulation, needing to compete with other women,needing validation from men at all times, the lack of empathy and remorse, and treating people like they're disposable---it's classic HPD. I'll give you a link to a forum about it , for those who have it, and those who've been affected by HPD people either as friends or romantic partners. Reading there from time to time has helped deepen my understanding about it, it's also put a lot of my former friend's behaviors into a clearer light. Not that I want her back in my life--but at least I feel like I have a better understanding, and I'm not beating myself up as much now. http://www.psychforums.com/histrionic-personality/ maybe reading there a bit will help your healing.
freestyle Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 why dont you focus on yourself and your own relationship rather than worrying about others That WAS one of her relationships.It was her best friend....In case you missed that. Being betrayed by a best friend isn't something you forget over night. And the pain can be just as deep as betrayal by a romantic partner.Hopefully, you will never have to learn that from experience.IMO--It's the kind of pain that's only understood by those who've been through it. This is a rant--venting this out is part of the healing process.Sweeping her feelings of justifiable anger at her former friend under the rug doesn't make them go away---it just leaves her walking on a lumpy rug.(Makes it a little hard to keep one's balance)
Author Lorelei_Lane Posted April 24, 2011 Author Posted April 24, 2011 why dont you focus on yourself and your own relationship rather than worrying about others Where in any of my posts was I worrying about others? I WAS worried about myself, I was worried about my relationship. My posts were about what she did to me. What someone I thought was a friend did to me and my relationship. I don't know how else to say what I've said than how I've said it. I don't attack anything she's doing now, I only mentioned a character behavior she used a lot; having a new guy lined up for when she's ready to leave the old one. She was going to use my husband for that. Freestyle is right as well, THAT FRIENDSHIP was a relationship of mine too. Please go back and read my posts, and if you have more to add or questions, feel free to ask. Otherwise, I'd rather post on this thread my thoughts, feelings, anger. That's what this thread was created for. Back to the topic at hand: Freestyle, when I was in therapy I talked a lot about her to my therapist and although they don't diagnose people they don't see, she said based off of her actions and the things I had said about her, she wouldn't be surprised if she was borderline personality. Which, after doing some research, I could see what she meant. The compartmentalization, the "abandonment" issue she always seemed to have, things like that. There was only one of the 8 characteristics she didn't fit, although I think because part of her is too narcissistic to fit into that part. It's funny that I've been able to move past the affair except for the part where she is concerned. I think it's because I don't get to rant much about how much she hurt me, so I think it does good to post on here and get it out of my system.
StoneCold Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 That WAS one of her relationships.It was her best friend....In case you missed that. Being betrayed by a best friend isn't something you forget over night. And the pain can be just as deep as betrayal by a romantic partner.Hopefully, you will never have to learn that from experience.IMO--It's the kind of pain that's only understood by those who've been through it. This is a rant--venting this out is part of the healing process.Sweeping her feelings of justifiable anger at her former friend under the rug doesn't make them go away---it just leaves her walking on a lumpy rug.(Makes it a little hard to keep one's balance) The key word here being WAS
Author Lorelei_Lane Posted April 27, 2011 Author Posted April 27, 2011 If you don't have something constructive to add, please don't post stupid negative sh*t. I posted this thread to vent my feelings, which, if I'm not mistaken, I'm still allowed to have. You don't like it, don't read them. ANYWAY! I've noticed over the last few days, because I've been so busy, my mind doesn't wander as much to her. The thing I like about my husband and this situation is that if I need to talk, rant, or just bitch about her, he lets me. He will listen, throw in a comment or two if he feels the need, and let me have my "release". This morning, while we were laying in bed, we were cuddling and I said "Are you over her?" He looked a bit confused at first, then he realized I meant the xOW. He said of course he was. I asked him if he was happy with where our marriage has progressed to, and he said he was. There is another thread somewhere in the forum where someone asked about staying with the WS. I stayed because I thought we had a chance. For the longest time I thought I couldn't handle it, but when I saw him finally let go of her and who he thought she was, I knew I had not made a mistake. I think I'm honestly jealous he's been able to let go. Some days I miss what I thought I had with her. She was someone I talked to every day. My husband and I were planning a wedding reception just before I found out about their affair (we had a small "wedding" just to make things official, as we were struggling for money and I needed health insurance) and she was helping me pick out colors and themes. We talked about what she would eventually like to see in a wedding. We talked about clothes, shoes, make up. We were both gamers, we did that together. We spent a lot of time online doing things, as we lived in two separate states. We texted and talked on the phone constantly. I miss that. I miss having someone to do all that with, the girly stuff that my husband makes fun of (lovingly!!). I know one of these days I will be indifferent to her and who she was. I just want that day to hurry up and get here.
Steadfast Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 What she did ruined a lot of relationships for me. All the while she gets to move on and be happy. She doesn't have to struggle with what she did. I have to respond to this, because I think a lot of people struggle with a lack of tangible justice regarding the OM/OW. The truth is, you don't know what she feels or how she reacts to the way others think of her. Obviously, she has deep seated problems, or she wouldn't be a man eater. Do you really think -deep down- she has it made? Or does a teeny-tiny part of you feel envy about her control over men? Either way, that makes her messed up and you normal. You do understand that, right? Let her go. I mean, just let her off the hook and forget about what she's done and doing. Take back the power she has over you and keep it for yourself. It is hard to fight off, but we want some revenge, don't we? We'd all like to see people who've hurt us face the consequences of their actions. Just remember, that's a dangerous game. If her pain brings you happiness, then what will her happiness bring you? Both you, and your husband are survivors. Take pride in that. No marriage escapes unblemished, but real love does. Congrats-
OldOnTheInside Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 I think what Steadfast said is extemely true. There is nothing to be gained from dedicating any of your thoughts to this woman, unless you enjoy feeling angry. Are you still seeing counselling LL? Perhaps you could see one to help deal with your (understandable) lingering resentment towards this woman. Maybe it is just a waste of money, maybe not. Just something to keep in mind. Glad that things are working out for you otherwise.
Author Lorelei_Lane Posted May 3, 2011 Author Posted May 3, 2011 Steadfast is right, and that's what pisses me off more! lol She does still have some sort of power over me with my anger. And no, I'm not still in counseling, I think I still should be though. My husband and I have had a really crazy couple of months, we had to move suddenly and we're trying to find jobs in the new place. We're starting over somewhere new because we were just drowning where we used to live. We're closer to his family now, which is nice. I actually have been thinking about going back to church, something I haven't done in years. I know not everyone is religious, and people have different beliefs, but I'm beginning to wonder if that would be an avenue to take towards learning to forgive and forget. There is always counseling though. I have to admit though, with the last couple of weeks being very busy for me (job interviews and such) she's been far from my mind. My last therapist said that for some reason in times of stress, I tend to focus on the OW. Not sure why, but I did. I just need to minimize the stress, maybe she won't come up in thought as much. Thank you guys for posting... it's always great to get other people's opinions.
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