Memphis Raines Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 What about other behaviours? what about them? If you want to start a thread about other behaviors, be my guest. This is HA22's thread about being angry at cheating. If you want to be angry at another behavior, by all means, start a a thread. having one's ass beat is worse than cheating getting stabbed with a knife is worse than having one's ass beat someone cutting off all your limbs with a circular saw is worse than getting stabbed ......and on, and on, and on. There is always something worse than something else. this happens to be a thread about cheating.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 Spark nothing justifies any of the bullsh*t we do to eachother.... nothing justifies... - saying hurtful things - neglect - dismissal of one another's views Why do you feel the needs to make special note about cheating and nothing else? The reality is people provoke people....action - reaction....theres no justification but we do it anyways..... thats life... so you can go on about whats justified but to me its a moot point. ....... and that is where we part paths...to me cheating is just a line item on a long list of failures...to you it gets special status over many other things that can be just as damaging except you can't get an std from the things you mentioned :/..I'm dam lucky
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 except you can't get an std from the things you mentioned :/..I'm dam lucky No but you can become severely depressed from the things you defend
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 StoneCold Not that you need cheering on because you are holding your own - Very Well I might add. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate a point of view that is more objective than closed minded/black & white like many post here. I really enjoy reading what you have to say. Thanks:) oh blah blah blah, with you black and white bull..I'm the most un black and white person there is.. cheating is cheating excuse all you want!
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 No but you can become severely depressed from the things you defend yes you don't need to talk to me about depression..really? before my H cheated he did all those things you mentioned to me as well..not that I was ever perfect, but I never negleted or mentally abused anyone, and what things am I defending?
Memphis Raines Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 oh blah blah blah, with you black and white bull..I'm the most un black and white person there is.. cheating is cheating excuse all you want! bah, pay no mind to her. all she does in the infidelity forum is badger people who are in pain over being cheated on.
confusedinkansas Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I realize this is your thread Half & you can blah blah me all you want. This is where the wheels start to fall off the bus. People don't want to realize that there are 2 sides to every story & that in most cases the BS is partially to blame for the failing of the marriage. You all see it as cut & dry. When we say there are 2 sides to the story you say we're "making excuses, justifying our behavior." No we're not. We're merely looking at infidelity as .. it is what it is. No, we don't condone it. No we don't think it's a great idea & No we don't cheer on the cheater. We just choose to see the world not as black & white. We KNOW there are gray areas all over the place. Hating a cheater & having cheating be a deal breaker is how a lot of people feel. It's just not how EVERYONE feels. Memphis - You can look at my posts any way you choose. Makes no difference to me.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 I realize this is your thread Half & you can blah blah me all you want. This is where the wheels start to fall off the bus. People don't want to realize that there are 2 sides to every story & that in most cases the BS is partially to blame for the failing of the marriage. You all see it as cut & dry. When we say there are 2 sides to the story you say we're "making excuses, justifying our behavior." No we're not. We're merely looking at infidelity as .. it is what it is. No, we don't condone it. No we don't think it's a great idea & No we don't cheer on the cheater. We just choose to see the world not as black & white. We KNOW there are gray areas all over the place. Hating a cheater & having cheating be a deal breaker is how a lot of people feel. It's just not how EVERYONE feels. Memphis - You can look at my posts any way you choose. Makes no difference to me. ok whatever...I can almost buy that garbage if H made one mistake, but to cheat over 10 times...really? whats the other side of the story for that?
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 ok whatever...I can almost buy that garbage if H made one mistake, but to cheat over 10 times...really? whats the other side of the story for that? oh wait answered my own question...he's an insane pig
bentnotbroken Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I realize this is your thread Half & you can blah blah me all you want. This is where the wheels start to fall off the bus. People don't want to realize that there are 2 sides to every story & that in most cases the BS is partially to blame for the failing of the marriage. You all see it as cut & dry. When we say there are 2 sides to the story you say we're "making excuses, justifying our behavior." No we're not. We're merely looking at infidelity as .. it is what it is. No, we don't condone it. No we don't think it's a great idea & No we don't cheer on the cheater. We just choose to see the world not as black & white. We KNOW there are gray areas all over the place. Hating a cheater & having cheating be a deal breaker is how a lot of people feel. It's just not how EVERYONE feels. Memphis - You can look at my posts any way you choose. Makes no difference to me. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t196969/ This says that ALL BS do not think they had nothing to do with their marital problems. So for some people infidelity isn't a deal breaker in a marriage. I am not one of them. It is ever bit as bad is the abuse I contributed. But apparently abuse wasn't a deal breaker for Mr. Messy(not sure what would be). Again there may be gray areas in your life and many others. IMO it is because the gray is allowed in one's life. I choose not to allow it. I don't think I would have as big an issue with infidelity if the person doing the deed were honest about them doing. Give the other party a choice. That doesn't seem to be part of the make up of many who cheat. Open mouth, say the words and let the chips fall where they may. That way both people can decide if they want to stay in the pissy marriage, work on the pissy marriage,leave the pissy marriage or screw someone else.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 While I certainly agree that it takes two people two make a marriage and that both share a responsibility in the condition of their marriage, there are times when one spouse may not know that the other is unhappy. I didn't, my spouse never told me, even when I asked. And I really do believe that things were not "hell on earth", just stagnant, and they probably would have remained that way had he not met someone who was more than willing to point out to him how unhappy she felt he really was. I take my share of responsibility for allowing things to become "stagnant" and for not trying to change that... what I do not accept responsibility for is how he chose to handle it, which was by cheating. I also don't think that it's fair to assume that I should have known that he was unhappy... I really was " the last person to know". We usually are.
Summer Breeze Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 tx for your response, ok first, I don't think the Ow think of me oftern anymore it's been years for them, I have to say it may have not been easier, but the first ow was a woman he later introduced me to, and we all became friends..good friends, so yes I blame her as well for keeping her nasty secret and being around me and my kids..I mean how did she looke me in the face? yes it was his fault and I know how he lied, and I did say it's cheaters I hate, not just the ow/om. the other women, I knew all of them most were one nighters, that he worked with but I went to christmas parties and things where they were, in fact there was one party where there were at least 6 women in the same room he cheated with...I feel so stupid, and I guess getting mad at them is better than being felt sorry for..(poor girl she has no idea) that makes me nautious!!, and believe me when there husbands cheat..(wich one already is going through a divorce for that reason) maybe they WILL think of me..gotta love karma! I'll start by saying I don't remotely believe in karma. How could you justify what it seems you've been through? What on earth could you have done to deserve the things you've written about? Next. I think you're missing my point. I'm trying to say as a fOW that I have never thought poorly of xMMs W not during the A and not after. I actually don't think of her often at all. I wanted you to know that I don't think there are any OW ghosts out there sitting thinking about what you did or didn't do. I wanted to somehow let you know that of all the things you have in your life to worry about or think about that's more than likely not 1 of them. I don't understand the fixation on the OW/OM by the BS. It's something I can't get because they are meaningless to me. If it were a friend in the A I would imagine it would be a whole lot different and I would take it as a personal attack on me but it was someone I worked with and we weren't close. I probably sound heartless when I say that I don't get it but I don't.
Summer Breeze Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) Sb, I know many people, especially OW/OM, or those who were cheated on and divorced, feel this way and there is a lot of truth in it. We should hold mostly accountable the spouse who cheated on us. But we ALSO hold accountable the person they cheated with. It is just the way we are. I was a BS 20 years before I was an OW and I never felt that way. I guess I'm not in the 'we' camp. She didn't matter. He could have cheated with a blow up doll or anyone. He cheated. Who with didn't matter. I really struggle getting my head around even thinking about why the AP is even a consideration. I'm not trying to be difficult it's just my POV. I don't see any logic in shifting the blame away from the man who promised the world and ripped it out from under me and the family we were building. It took two, three, four people to hurt us, and while it is mostly our spouse we blame for the devastation, we also harbor pain, anger, resentment to the person who gave themselves permission to have a sexual and intimate relationship with our spouse. My xH and my xMM were the ones who gave their OW permission to have sexual and intimate relationships with their spouses. If they'd have said no or held their vows then it wouldn't have happened. We just cannot wrap our heads around TWO people operating with such little empathy for us. If our marriage was so over, why didn't we know that? Why didn't our spouse inform us of that? Why did they carry on for so long deceiving us? Why didn't you care either? I agree with everything you said except the last line. Why didn't my xH care enough and have enough respect for me? No idea. When I found out he cheated I didn't hang around for any explanations. My xMM was the one who didn't care about his M. Things didn't happen overnight and as we got closer there was a lot of discussion about what he was doing and how she'd feel at his betrayal. I was clear from day 1 that I would never lie for him. I never hid my R with him and when we happened to be around people he knew I refused to walk behind him or hide. If it came out it came out. When we had ddays his W and I had very candid talks. I fell in love with him and I wasn't going to walk away from that if he wasn't. It was his job to protect his M not mine. We are fairly convinced we would never do that to another person; that we would never engage with a married partner because spouses and families could be hurt -- no devastated --by those actions. I went through almost 50 years KNOWING I wouldn't have an A. I care less that he/she developed feelings for another. While that hurts, it is human nature and if informed of it, mature decisions could be made. I agree with you 100% It is the lying and deception of an affair/affairs, with the willing participation of another that smacks of the highest form of selfish self-entitlement. I had no thoughts of self entitlement. Someone came into my life. They were honest from the start about their situation and made themselves available to me. I didn't go bulling in saying 'I want him'. He could have stayed away or walked away at a million points during the A. He!! with 5 ddays and me respecting their NC each time there are 5 of them. He had the choice to walk away a million times and didn't. I sadly acknowledged the end of the R 6 times and not till the last time when I did the walking away did it stick. I don't see how that's me being selfish or self entitled. Justify it any way you want to. Someone in the affair triangle is being abused, lied to, deceived by TWO people, not one. Your opinion. I'm not justifying anything I'm stating how it has been in my situation. What one person may see as an explanation someone who disagrees will call it a justification or an excuse. That is human nature. HA22....I get it. You are screaming at the moon wondering what did I do to deserve this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Vent away. Responses above in bold. Edited April 22, 2011 by Summer Breeze I'm blonde
dreamingoftigers Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 I don't understand the fixation on the OW/OM by the BS. It's something I can't get because they are meaningless to me. If it were a friend in the A I would imagine it would be a whole lot different and I would take it as a personal attack on me but it was someone I worked with and we weren't close. I probably sound heartless when I say that I don't get it but I don't. Because your brain perceives it as a threat to the survival of your family. Think back to the good ole caveman times. Men providing, women gathering and raising children. Men provided a lot of nutritional resources, if another woman comes along and takes a share or all of that, there goes "wife's" children's food, thereby crossing out her genetic line. Sex and sexual attraction are attention-getters for men, that's where the resources go because that is where the male's genetic investment would go. When my mother found out about my father's infidelity she told me that she was pissed at him but wanted to hear that the OW's body was found in some garbage bags. My mother was insanely passive before that point, to the point of being scarily passive.
Summer Breeze Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Because your brain perceives it as a threat to the survival of your family. Think back to the good ole caveman times. Men providing, women gathering and raising children. Men provided a lot of nutritional resources, if another woman comes along and takes a share or all of that, there goes "wife's" children's food, thereby crossing out her genetic line. Sex and sexual attraction are attention-getters for men, that's where the resources go because that is where the male's genetic investment would go. When my mother found out about my father's infidelity she told me that she was pissed at him but wanted to hear that the OW's body was found in some garbage bags. My mother was insanely passive before that point, to the point of being scarily passive. I suppose so. I just go back to me being the BS and it didn't matter who he was cheating with. I honestly just don't get it. Thanks for trying to get it through my evidently thick head!
dreamingoftigers Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 My husband is a sexual addict and going out in public seeing pretty girls messes with my head, billboards, magazines etc, it Is awful. Like a mind rape. The worst for me is Britney Spears.
seren Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Very interesting thread, I would add that I accept some responsibility for the breakdown in communication in our pre A marriage, but I will not accept any responsibility for H's A, none, nothing that I have read here or elsewhere could persuade me otherwise. I asked, repeatedly, what was wrong, could we talk, got gaslighted so much I thought I was going crazy. Once D Day happened, and we decided to look at the how and why, the reasons became blindingly obvious and I accept that I should have picked up that H wasn't coping with life, himself etc. I don't blame the OW, I just don't understand how another human being can chose an action that will knowingly hurt another. It doesn't fit into my mindset. I understand the why's of it, just that it isn't something I would or could do, I know never say never, but I rather think that I know me better than anyone else can. Once we decided to work on the marriage the wanting to know why that OW was not so much about her, more about what qualities H found in her that he couldn't/didn't find in me. Which I think, is more to do with vanity than anything else. I find indifference toward the OW is my modus operandi she really could have been anyone. I agree that constantly holding the A over the marriage is not so good, can restrict moving along. But, I can also say that the hurt and bewilderment after I knew about the A made me question just about everything, for a while at least.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 I suppose so. I just go back to me being the BS and it didn't matter who he was cheating with. I honestly just don't get it. Thanks for trying to get it through my evidently thick head! I hate to say it but for me it's a little ego, I've always been told I look very young and very good for being 38 and having 4 kids, most people think I'm the older sister, even my husband fed me that, and he always bosted to his friends how great our sex life was..so i guess I'm curious as to how better these woman can be then me...at least thats how I use to feel when I first found out, plus I knew this last OW, he had real feeling for, so How could I not wonder and think about her, it's been 3 years and I still think about her, I think it's just human at least for me anyway.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 I suppose so. I just go back to me being the BS and it didn't matter who he was cheating with. I honestly just don't get it. Thanks for trying to get it through my evidently thick head! What I don't get is how on earth you could allow yourself to be the OW, when you were once the BS...I'd rather gouge my eyeballs out with a dul knife than be that ever!
dreamingoftigers Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 There us something strange that happens when you are with a serial cheater, it almost warps things a little too much after awhile. I know that during all of the raw painful discoveries of my H's infidelity, I would never never put anyone through that. Then it kept going and that part of you that could feel pain a at fever high just goes cold. Your sexual mores start to fall away. I hold to mine 90% on principle alone and because I would never want to hurt anyone in the ways that I used to be capable of being hurt. But mostly I can see how the BS of a serial cheater just doesn't give a crap anymore. They want the "sexual happiness" that when you are married to a serial cheater appears that 95% of the population are doing and you aren't. Plus, it would be nice to be on the side of the equation (OW) that you felt was "winning" or got the "good parts" when you were the BS. Being the wife of a serial cheater does kill something in you. I am really shocked at myself and how I think that if I don't carefully monitor my actions, I would be the type to finally leave this trainwreck via exit affair. The thought bothers me, and I wouldn't role model that to my daughter, but that's about it.
alexandria35 Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 How would cheating negate anything? And your math doesn't add up. It is like this: If you put my Dad in a room by himself with a bottle of Crown Royal, the next day you would find an empty bottle and a Hustler mag, gross, but easy to clean (if you had the stomach to). Let's say change the scenario, you invite his brother over, he brings 1 bottle too. (This is like marriage) The next day, you would have two passed out idiots, lots of blood and 2 busted bottles (and a Hustler in a Pear Tree). Now introduce one of the three remaining brothers, (yes there are 5) even just give them a smaller bottle. The next day you would find 2 bodies, one guy passed out, 3 smashed bottles, lots of blood and a few crime lab technicians. Not as easy to clean. And that's why you don't put my father's family in a room together. What the Hell else was I talking about? Okay this thread is all over the place, I'm not even sure what it's about, but this ^^^^^^ was Freaking Funny!! I like your style Dreaming...
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 Okay this thread is all over the place, I'm not even sure what it's about, but this ^^^^^^ was Freaking Funny!! I like your style Dreaming... It was originally, me just having a meltdown for one day..
bentnotbroken Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 It was originally, me just having a meltdown for one day.. How do you feel today?
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 How do you feel today? Much better, that I refilled my lexapro lol..tx for asking
Spark1111 Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Much better, that I refilled my lexapro lol..tx for asking Feeling insecure is another gift of the affair dynamic: What's he/she got that I don't, especially if, in your heart, you did everything you possibly could to be the best wife possible. And to do that, it sounds like you really cared about your H, even loved him through some really unlovable behavior of his. As for feelings towards OW/OM....I, to am indifferent today, but it did take me a long time to get there. Look, I believe the amount of pain you feel following infidelity is in direct proportion to how much you loved your spouse and how hard you personally tried to make a happy, loving relationship with your spouse. If you are constantly bickering and have eroded the physical and emotional bonds to nothing, maybe an infidelity doesn't surprise you or devastate you as it does others. You simply divorce and it does not traumatize you to the extent it does others. The marriage was already on life support. Or you reconcile with a "so what" attitude and move on. That is not what was happening in my marriage, and it is not how I felt about my husband. I love him deeply and always have, even throughout the bickering or an unkind comment, or all the other trials we faced together. We forgave quickly because we realized it was NOT intentional; it was the heat of the moment, or stress, or kids, or bills, and moved on. We were always on the same page; same goals, same dreams....until his affair. To me, I still cannot wrap my head around the deception necessary to carry out a long term affair, the INTENTIONAL and daily betrayal of unknowing spouse by TWO people. The planning and plotting and execution of it all under the nose of a spouse caring for hearth and home. And maybe that is why it hurt me so much and took so long to forgive, find indifference, and move forward. I loved him. HA22, hang in there. And vent away whenever you need to.
Recommended Posts