Spark1111 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Sure.. that goes both ways spark...not ONE again....both ways yeah but if the house is already 90% burnt....its done....you aint getting that house back. how are you so sure its "my marriage MADE me do this." in every case?.... maybe its "my marriage is f*cked and I dont care". Sure you should end the marriage but thats a process (legal and financial that WILL take some amount of time) BUT your needs are NOW. Then take responsibility for your contribution rather than chucking all the stones one way I think you're taking skewed logic with blinders on to the ultimate destruction of marriage in general Sure...that CAN happen...and I'm sure it does from time to time. BUT affairs also happen in poor, destructive, hurtful relationships. Affairs can happen where one partner gives 0% and the other ends up checking out. Affairs can often happen in marriages with reasons having EVERYTHING to do with the spouse....and very likely more often than not I can acknowledge the reciprocal but for some reason you cant at all. hmmmm Sure....But more often than not it is.....I've witnessed this so many times and like the old saying goes... where theres smoke...theres fire Again... its all about the other spouse right? no no.... the other spouse gets a pass to do their contribution to the destruction of the marriage and when its time for their destruction to come back at them its gotta be done their way because thats convenient for them Ok, you lost me here. Do you want your wife to initiate divorce? Do you want to just blame your spouse for all that is wrong in the marriage? Will it be her fault if you have an affair? Because this is what I am hearing? Am I wrong to conclude this from your posts? Have you had an affair? Because you speak with a certitude from your personal observations and yet, I do not know how you come to your conclusions. If you have needs and you want them filled NOW, separate, and let her know what you intend to do. ....and let her do the same. What IS stopping you? Is blaming her the excuse you use to stay miserable and to justify having your needs met now? You sound angry. How is that working for you in changing your life into what you envision it could be?
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Ok, you lost me here. Do you want your wife to initiate divorce? it will happen on OUR time...as I said...its a process and this you cannot debate Do you want to just blame your spouse for all that is wrong in the marriage? Nope... I'm guilty of my fair share too (that have nothing to do with an affair)...and when it does dissolve I will most certainly take responsibility for my share Will it be her fault if you have an affair? Because this is what I am hearing? Am I wrong to conclude this from your posts? yes you are Have you had an affair? Because you speak with a certitude from your personal observations and yet, I do not know how you come to your conclusions. Yes I have.. so have many people close to me...and every situation was different as well as the results. Thats why I dont get when you guys say "its always" like X...because I can tell you....its not If you have needs and you want them filled NOW, separate, What does that prove? its just a physical separation...theres way more to marriage than physical living situations and it all depends on how the people involved define "separation" ....and let her do the same. What IS stopping you? Is blaming her the excuse you use to stay miserable and to justify having your needs met now? Nope... I have my reasons which are personal You sound angry. How is that working for you in changing your life into what you envision it could be? I'm actually not because I'm beginning to achieve clarity...still not quite there yet but I'm grateful to have found the path
melenkurion Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Ah thats convenient...so when its time for the pendulum to swing the other way back at you the other person is supposed to "do the right thing"....Let me ask you what happened to "do the right thing" when the other party was dropping the ball? They are just as obligated to fix it but somehow they get a pass on this because what they did didnt involve sex. Well you know what...theres more than one way to betray someone and it doesn't always involve sex. The sexual element is a pretty miniscule part of the betrayal I felt when I found out that my civil partner was having an affair with my best friend. It was the lies about where he was, the gaslighting, the making me feel bad for once questioning them. Oh, and the borrowing money to finance his weekend of passion. Look: I know that I must have had my part to play in the failure of that relationship. Call it 50/50. Whatever. There was obviously something he wasn't getting from me that was a real deal breaker. Fine. Talk to me, and we have a chance to fix it, or we go our separate ways. In the aftermath, he told me that he thought he deserved "passion". That was news to me. He had never, ever raised it as an issue. This issue I have with this lot is the same story plays out time and time again here...the players and fine details are different but the gist is the same.... "boohoo feel sorry for me because I'm innocent and my evil spouse cheated on me...I'm the perfect spouse, i've never done them wrong, and they cheated on me because they are the devil" I'm nowhere near perfect, we were neither of us perfect. All I can imagine is that we started to take each other for granted. We were coasting, sure. After eight years that happens in most cases, I think. But: I was pretty content with my lot, to be honest. I have never craved excitement. My partner gave me every indication that quiet contentment was what he wanted out of life. The trouble with "infidelity" is that once a partner goes down that route, there is almost always a whole truckload of deceit that goes along with the sexual gratification. Discovering the extent of the lies you were told, the length of time it went on, well... It makes you question everything in your life. Again, it's not the sexual element of his affair that hurts me. A couple of years before we "married", he had a drunken one night stand. I could and did forgive that. In hindsight, the redflag for us was that he was never prepared to explain why it happened, what was going wrong with "us" to trigger it. I made it clear that I wanted to try and get to the root cause. He never wanted to talk about it ever again after the discovery. What stings here is the lying, the deceit. The fact that he tried me and convicted me in absentia, without a word. I don't think "he cheated because he is the devil". I think he cheated because he is a bit of a coward, and prefers to avoid his problems. But how would I know? He never told me why.
Spark1111 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 The sexual element is a pretty miniscule part of the betrayal I felt when I found out that my civil partner was having an affair with my best friend. It was the lies about where he was, the gaslighting, the making me feel bad for once questioning them. Oh, and the borrowing money to finance his weekend of passion. Look: I know that I must have had my part to play in the failure of that relationship. Call it 50/50. Whatever. There was obviously something he wasn't getting from me that was a real deal breaker. Fine. Talk to me, and we have a chance to fix it, or we go our separate ways. In the aftermath, he told me that he thought he deserved "passion". That was news to me. He had never, ever raised it as an issue. I'm nowhere near perfect, we were neither of us perfect. All I can imagine is that we started to take each other for granted. We were coasting, sure. After eight years that happens in most cases, I think. But: I was pretty content with my lot, to be honest. I have never craved excitement. My partner gave me every indication that quiet contentment was what he wanted out of life. The trouble with "infidelity" is that once a partner goes down that route, there is almost always a whole truckload of deceit that goes along with the sexual gratification. Discovering the extent of the lies you were told, the length of time it went on, well... It makes you question everything in your life. Again, it's not the sexual element of his affair that hurts me. A couple of years before we "married", he had a drunken one night stand. I could and did forgive that. In hindsight, the redflag for us was that he was never prepared to explain why it happened, what was going wrong with "us" to trigger it. I made it clear that I wanted to try and get to the root cause. He never wanted to talk about it ever again after the discovery. What stings here is the lying, the deceit. The fact that he tried me and convicted me in absentia, without a word. I don't think "he cheated because he is the devil". I think he cheated because he is a bit of a coward, and prefers to avoid his problems. But how would I know? He never told me why. Bingo! We have a winner! Typical traits in many a cheater: Conflict-avoidance, poor communication and coping skills, lack of self-esteem. Lots of research support the cheater emotionally distances themselves from the relationship; never CLEARLY communicates kindly and compassionately the needs they want filled; but then blames the spouse or the marriage for their unhappiness, and gives themselves permission to seek elsewhere what they could not help to create in the marriage. "Tried and convicted in absentia" Love it! And we have been to many mental health professionals putting humpty-dumpty back together again, and gues what? My fWS is the focus of all attention. Like I said earlier, he is treated like fragile glass about to break as they try to help HIM live a more authentic life, more in tune with his feelings and having the ability to express them and make himself happy!
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) The sexual element is a pretty miniscule part of the betrayal I felt when I found out that my civil partner was having an affair with my best friend. It was the lies about where he was, the gaslighting, the making me feel bad for once questioning them. Oh, and the borrowing money to finance his weekend of passion. Look: I know that I must have had my part to play in the failure of that relationship. Call it 50/50. Whatever. There was obviously something he wasn't getting from me that was a real deal breaker. Fine. Talk to me, and we have a chance to fix it, or we go our separate ways. In the aftermath, he told me that he thought he deserved "passion". That was news to me. He had never, ever raised it as an issue. I'm nowhere near perfect, we were neither of us perfect. All I can imagine is that we started to take each other for granted. We were coasting, sure. After eight years that happens in most cases, I think. But: I was pretty content with my lot, to be honest. I have never craved excitement. My partner gave me every indication that quiet contentment was what he wanted out of life. The trouble with "infidelity" is that once a partner goes down that route, there is almost always a whole truckload of deceit that goes along with the sexual gratification. Discovering the extent of the lies you were told, the length of time it went on, well... It makes you question everything in your life. Again, it's not the sexual element of his affair that hurts me. A couple of years before we "married", he had a drunken one night stand. I could and did forgive that. In hindsight, the redflag for us was that he was never prepared to explain why it happened, what was going wrong with "us" to trigger it. I made it clear that I wanted to try and get to the root cause. He never wanted to talk about it ever again after the discovery. What stings here is the lying, the deceit. The fact that he tried me and convicted me in absentia, without a word. I don't think "he cheated because he is the devil". I think he cheated because he is a bit of a coward, and prefers to avoid his problems. But how would I know? He never told me why. Ok... but thats your situation....which is different from others. I do commend you for taking responsibility for your part because many here are simply not capable of this at all....and they call teh cheater a coward....how ironic But back to my point of "half a story"...you gave me your half of the story. But I'm sure he has a half too. You said he gave you no indication of a problem and didnt try to communicate....and maybe he didnt....but maybe he did and you didnt notice. I'm not saying this to be a stinker but how often do we get into relationships...they dissolve and after have the other partner say "I tried to tell you......." (if they even bother to inform you of this because they may not) and you are just beside yourself because you just didnt see it (or maybe still dont see it) at that time. My point is relationships are complicated and its not so simple to just chalk it up to black and white..... "its all your fault" You had a relationship...many things happened on both sides for a myriad of reasons and it is now done as a result. EOS Edited April 21, 2011 by StoneCold
confusedinkansas Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Nope... I'm guilty of my fair share too (that have nothing to do with an affair)...and when it does dissolve I will most certainly take responsibility for my share I'm chiming in here to say STONECOLD........Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy:) A few points: It takes 2 to make a marriage fail.Affairs are not the only form of betrayal that can devistate & destroy a marriage.BS's do need to take responsibility & not just sit back & make the WS "pay" for the rest of their lives / marriage (if it is to continue)Back to the OP - I'm sorry that you have such a hatred for those that have had affairs. I hope that someday you can find a way to not be so angry. I'm sorry as well for the other things in life you mention that you've had to endure. Must be horrible to have that many horriffic things happen to you.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Okay, We seem to be in a very weird place, but I'll give it a shot. how are you so sure its "my marriage MADE me do this." in every case?.... maybe its "my marriage is f*cked and I dont care". Sure you should end the marriage but thats a process (legal and financial that WILL take some amount of time) BUT your needs are NOW. My husband used this one to justify his blatant sexual addiction and series of relapses. Not saying that this is you, but just thought that I would share. Again... its all about the other spouse right? no no.... the other spouse gets a pass to do their contribution to the destruction of the marriage and when its time for their destruction to come back at them its gotta be done their way because thats convenient for them When you pull out the last stop, guess who gets to make the first move? Usually the damage done to the BS by the cheating is far greater with the physical implications alone then the WS has to deal with. I can see the exception in cases of abuse and addiction. Mostly though neglect or money issues come in second on the suffering scale. Think of marriage as a body. Think of spouse A cutting a finger off of it, think of spouse B breaking an arm of it, if spouse A then gives it a slash to the neck, which do you try to treat first to save the life of the body? It doesn't goddamn matter that spouse B broke it's arm, you stop the bleeding at the throat if at all possible first. Spouse B may have broken a braichial artery in the arm that can be just as deadly, but it isn't as obvious. I would still try to treat the more apparent wound first to promote the best chances of survival. The broken arm is damned serious, especially if it is that artery. But the throat is a guaranteed death in a matter of minutes if left to address the arm. yeah but you used an illustration of your dad and his brothers.... well sorry but your dad and his brothers are NOT EVERYBODY ELSE. I am not going to come up with a universal example that applies to everyone on the planet, seriously. I don't even have conclusive proof that we all "bleed red." You are oversimplyfying You are minimizing and justifying. Your point? And i never said cheating was a problem solver...but then again neither is the antics of the spouse. But somehow the onus is on the other spouse to fix their sh*t and the other ones sh*t while they just kick back and have a Martguerita? because its convenient for them? I have yet to hear the BS Maguerita Recovery Program for Adultery. Hell no. You want things to fix? you do your part...they do theirs.... That's generally the way it goes with MC for adultery. Have you been? In the case of the body listed above.... You would be treating the slashed throat while your spouse would be treating the broken arm, we'll leave the finger for now. Who gives a **** about the finger when your throat is slashed and your brachial artery has ruptured anyways? we should just agree to disagree....as we could go on forever you see it one way....I see it another I don't actually know what your way is other then.... "dreamingoftigers, you are wrong" What is your actual outline and view? Yes I have.. so have many people close to me...and every situation was different as well as the results. Thats why I dont get when you guys say "its always" like X...because I can tell you....its not I think that Spark has been saying the opposite. Personally I think that the results of affairs may vary and the causes of such may vary as much as the players. Overall, a lousy move and not one that should be taken. The ends don't justify the means and no matter what the BS did, it is never justification to do something beneath your own dignity. We all get choices. I own mine. I don't get a free ticket as a perfect spouse because my husband is a porn-addict in treatment. It doesn't qualify me for sainthood. But it does make me a victim to his bull****. He may be a victim to my bull****, but the two don't cancel out. Bringing two wheelbarrows full of manure to throw at each other doesn't make any one of us any less dirty. If I only threw my cow crap at him and he walked away, he could've retained his dignity instead of using it as a reason or excuse to threw a bunch back. What does that prove? its just a physical separation...theres way more to marriage than physical living situations and it all depends on how the people involved define "separation" I would suggest defining it. I'm actually not because I'm beginning to achieve clarity...still not quite there yet but I'm grateful to have found the path. Good luck to you. No one on this thread is applying for a halo just so you know. Most of us are reeling from all of the stink we have thrown at each other in our relationships. You may be from a different camp, but we are all along the same river.
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 lol Tiger just drop it.... I explained my view... you missed..... cant help you
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Your posting pattern often seems to reflect: Go in, fire a few rounds at random targets, wait for the genuine logic to roll back in, fire some more, then when it gets explained even better.... dodge..... Happened in a couple threads.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 Your posting pattern often seems to reflect: Go in, fire a few rounds at random targets, wait for the genuine logic to roll back in, fire some more, then when it gets explained even better.... dodge..... Happened in a couple threads. at least his screen name fits!
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Your posting pattern often seems to reflect: Go in, fire a few rounds at random targets, wait for the genuine logic to roll back in, fire some more, then when it gets explained even better.... dodge..... Happened in a couple threads. Then I guess its unfortunate you see it that way because thats not what it is... I go in...I say my views... people get their feathers in a ruffle because I'm contrary to popular opinion here and I dont tow party lines.... people pile up on me with their "genuine logic" i counter their arguments with my logic....then they say "you're angry" because they are at a loss of words ...either that or they just keep going and going and goin with the same regurgitated argument and I get tired because its clear they arent really reading what I am saying....nobody has to agree but sometimes you just gotta let it die and agree to disagree... I'm ok with this but for some reason many of you are not. Happens in just about every thread Edited April 21, 2011 by StoneCold
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Then I guess its unfortunate you see it that way because thats not what it is... K, cool. I go in...I say my views... people get their feathers in a ruffle because I'm contrary to popular opinion here and I dont tow party lines.... people pile up on me with their "genuine logic" i counter their arguments with my logic....then they say "you're angry" because they are at a loss of words ...either that or they just keep going and going and goin with the same regurtitate arguement and I get tire Happens in just about every thread My feathers ruffled out of trying to say the same thing six times because I thought that you were having trouble with the example and then the specifics of it. I tend not to argue people's opinions unless there are stats/experiences/really obvious flaws in them (i.e. "women always cheat") that kind of thing. I just couldn't get what exactly you were firing at for awhile. Your tone does mostly sound angry, but I tend not to comment on a poster's mood. No point and doesn't add anything generally. Maybe people throw up the same arguments because it seems like there is some lack of understanding. My little bales for instance @@@. I thought I had to try and explain it a different way.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 I'm chiming in here to say STONECOLD........Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy:) A few points: It takes 2 to make a marriage fail.Affairs are not the only form of betrayal that can devistate & destroy a marriage.BS's do need to take responsibility & not just sit back & make the WS "pay" for the rest of their lives / marriage (if it is to continue)Back to the OP - I'm sorry that you have such a hatred for those that have had affairs. I hope that someday you can find a way to not be so angry. I'm sorry as well for the other things in life you mention that you've had to endure. Must be horrible to have that many horriffic things happen to you. I don't hate anyone, was just having one of those days the other day, I actually feel sorry for the ow..they were lied to and used just like me, and obvoiously they have no self esteem..and your wrong about the ws not paying for the rest of there life, my H lost the love of his live..me, and the respect of his friends and children, they will always know there dad as the cheating father, in fact my son said the other day when he was asked what he wanted to do with his life..he's 17, he said anything but be as weak and pathedic as my dad..if thats not paying nothing is, and i has nothing to do with me, they made those judgements without any of my input..so sad.
donnamaybe Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 It takes 2 to make a marriage fail.That's a blanket assumption that is sometimes VERY wrong. It can also take one big jerk to make a marriage fail.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 That's a blanket assumption that is sometimes VERY wrong. It can also take one big jerk to make a marriage fail. At least he isn't bugging me in Victoria now.
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Maybe people throw up the same arguments because it seems like there is some lack of understanding. OK... so I would be seen to have understood when I agree with you right? Because god forbid someone else see things differently and simply just disagrees?
donnamaybe Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 At least he isn't bugging me in Victoria now. Ha ha! I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I wrote that post, but touche!
confusedinkansas Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 ..and your wrong about the ws not paying for the rest of there life, my H lost the love of his live..me, and the respect of his friends and children, they will always know there dad as the cheating father, in fact my son said the other day when he was asked what he wanted to do with his life..he's 17, he said anything but be as weak and pathedic as my dad..if thats not paying nothing is, and i has nothing to do with me, they made those judgements without any of my input..so sad. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant here. I do know full well that the WS pays for that they did. What I was referring to is for those BS's who stay in a marriage & hangs the affair over the WS's head for the rest of their life & make them "Pay" for what they did to them.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 OK... so I would be seen to have understood when I agree with you right? Because god forbid someone else see things differently and simply just disagrees? Oh gosh no, I am not so black and white. Virtually ever. LOL. I honestly thought the explanation of the concept didn't make it through and I hate leaving people with the wrong impression. I am not here to spread my personal gospel far and wide and hopefully one day recruit a following of brainwashed soldiers.:laugh: You don't know me too well I take it, you should see the stuff I reach across the aisle for. Human suffering takes many forms. Quite frankly my husband is a serial cheater and sexual addict. He has his own limitations and suffering. I actually wouldn't trade places with him. But truth be told he has caused far more damage to this marriage then I ever would have. He is at the point where he could easily lose custody of his daughter altogether. He is in a treatment center in Victoria. It's sad. I still hope that he gets better everyday. There is no Marguerita here at the end of the rainbow (I am Mormon anyways) and I have done more then my fair share of heavy lifting and would continue to do so if it would heal the marriage and our family. The way I see it, he is so wrapped up in his issues, that he could probably only lift 10% anyways. I met him the other 90% until he can actually start dealing with his crap. I get why he is the way he is. It doesn't change the facts of what he did, but I get it and I am willing to work with him as he heals.
melenkurion Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 But back to my point of "half a story"...you gave me your half of the story. But I'm sure he has a half too. You said he gave you no indication of a problem and didnt try to communicate....and maybe he didnt....but maybe he did and you didnt notice. I'm sure he does have a story. I doubt I'll never know what it is. It's entirely possible that he did try and tell me what was really bothering him. I've had plenty of time to rack my brains and I really can't think of any messages I missed. My guess is that it was that he never felt the time was quite right to broach the "passion thing" (or whatever was the real issue). When things felt good, it simply wouldn't have felt a pressing issue ("why rock the boat", perhaps he thought?). Actually, of course probably is the ideal time to raise something. When things were not good, it wouldn't have felt the right time to bring it up. Certainly, with hindsight, I can understand that those messages may not have been verbal. Decoding non-verbal messages is very tricky for me, apart from the bleedin' obvious. Naturally, I am hoping to learn to do better there, it's a clear difficulty. I accept I had a part to play in the demise of the partnership, but I don't feel guilt for that. I tend to feel I did the best I could with the information I had available to me.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I think you may have misunderstood what I meant here. I do know full well that the WS pays for that they did. What I was referring to is for those BS's who stay in a marriage & hangs the affair over the WS's head for the rest of their life & make them "Pay" for what they did to them. Quite frankly, as a BS I know the risks of getting reinvolved with a WS. If I extend forgiveness it is not a loan to be rescinded every time that they don't want to do the dishes. My husband simply couldn't pay back what he has done. I would have to have cheat-fest to even things out and I am not willing to destroy my own dignity to satiate that. If he comes back, we come back together, not indebted to one another.
Spark1111 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I'm sure he does have a story. I doubt I'll never know what it is. It's entirely possible that he did try and tell me what was really bothering him. I've had plenty of time to rack my brains and I really can't think of any messages I missed. My guess is that it was that he never felt the time was quite right to broach the "passion thing" (or whatever was the real issue). When things felt good, it simply wouldn't have felt a pressing issue ("why rock the boat", perhaps he thought?). Actually, of course probably is the ideal time to raise something. When things were not good, it wouldn't have felt the right time to bring it up. Certainly, with hindsight, I can understand that those messages may not have been verbal. Decoding non-verbal messages is very tricky for me, apart from the bleedin' obvious. Naturally, I am hoping to learn to do better there, it's a clear difficulty. I accept I had a part to play in the demise of the partnership, but I don't feel guilt for that. I tend to feel I did the best I could with the information I had available to me. I do not feel guilt either. I am also not a mind reader, and when I communicate, I tend to be a straight shooter. I sensed his depression and even suggested going to counseling together. He refused. I went alone, grew stronger, felt happier and went back to a million responsibilities; job, house, children, parents, his parent. He crashed into her and had an affair; grew meaner, more critical, nasty, isolating himself from family and friends. We still talked, hosted, took vacations, had lots of sex, so while I knew something was really "off," he would NEVER tell me what it was. It was her. Go figure.
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 I think you may have misunderstood what I meant here. I do know full well that the WS pays for that they did. What I was referring to is for those BS's who stay in a marriage & hangs the affair over the WS's head for the rest of their life & make them "Pay" for what they did to them. ok your right, I did take that the wrong way, and you are right, witch is why I got out, I knew I'd never forget, and it would come up a lot, even years from now, that and no trust equal Divorce!
Author HalfAlive22 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 Quite frankly, as a BS I know the risks of getting reinvolved with a WS. If I extend forgiveness it is not a loan to be rescinded every time that they don't want to do the dishes. My husband simply couldn't pay back what he has done. I would have to have cheat-fest to even things out and I am not willing to destroy my own dignity to satiate that. If he comes back, we come back together, not indebted to one another. I know what you mean, I would of had to screw about 10 different guys to do what my H did...I'm sorry thats more than just a marriage gone wrong, thats a problem a phycotic one!
StoneCold Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I accept I had a part to play in the demise of the partnership, but I don't feel guilt for that. You shouldn't have to feel guilt.... just own up....you're doing that and its cool. I certainly dont play the "guilt trip" game....most around here do but not I
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