have to vent..sorry for the vulgarity!

[StoneCold]

NOTHING justifies cheating. If you believe there are reasons and excuses that do, you may be posting on the wrong forum, or you may be trying to convice yourself that there are reasons to justify cheating because you are hoping? intending? to do so at the very first opportunity.

 

See Spark...I dont deal in the realm of "equal" and "justified" because thats just not reality. Life doesnt work that way. I'm not looking to convince myself of anything...it is what it is with me. Perhaps many of you are wrapped up with this whole "convince yourself" thing because it makes you feel "valid" with regards to your argument....who knows.

 

I can tell you this. I believe that you reap what you sow...and this goes BOTH ways....If you play with fire something will get burnt; you hope its only your fingers but it might very well be the farm and no matter how it plays out...you'll have to take it on the chin because you DONT get to pick how your own garbage comes back at you. Again...this goes BOTH ways

 

Either fix what is wrong in your marriage or divorce and lead that swinging bachelor life you may be missing.

 

Ah thats convenient...so when its time for the pendulum to swing the other way back at you the other person is supposed to "do the right thing"....Let me ask you what happened to "do the right thing" when the other party was dropping the ball? They are just as obligated to fix it but somehow they get a pass on this because what they did didnt involve sex. Well you know what...theres more than one way to betray someone and it doesn't always involve sex.

 

 

This issue I have with this lot is the same story plays out time and time again here...the players and fine details are different but the gist is the same....

 

"boohoo feel sorry for me because I'm innocent and my evil spouse cheated on me...I'm the perfect spouse, i've never done them wrong, and they cheated on me because they are the devil"

 

Well, I've lived enough to know that theres always the other side of the story and more often than not you are getting a biased half a story at best; which means you really DONT know the story. Very seldom are those who have cheated serial cheaters with horns and glowing red eyes. People that are like that tend not to be the type to marry to begin with (but there are always a few anomalies)...theres always more.

 

It seems like taking responsibility for actions only go one way around here. Nobody can every say:

 

"My marriage failed for the following reasons......he did this and that...I did that and this....and its done"

 

And even in the event that they do get around to saying some semblance of the above, they still have to turn around and make the cheater seem like the bad one. .... and my question is:

 

"how are you so sure that your contributions to the failure of your marriage were'nt as bad to the recipient or perhaps even worse?"

 

They act like the cheating is what destroyed the marriage when it was more likely death from a thousand cuts on both ends...cheating is just the iicing..... and iicing aint cake spark

 

Because cheating will cause untold devastation to your wife and children and you will lose all of their respect for you deception.

 

I promise you that.

 

Wrong... cheating is just a result of a deeper more serious problem. You know what hurts spouses and kids? incessant fighting, bickering, arguing, resentment, emotional neglect, physical neglect... the tension is so thick in the air its palpable....THAT is the death of your marriage/family right there and you're dreaming if you think the kids dont notice...as I said, death by a thousand cuts

 

Cheating is more often than not pissing on an already dead horse

Edited April 21, 2011 by StoneCold

[dreamingoftigers]

Cheating is actually an asymmetrical response to a screwed-up argument.

 

What happens is that person A feels that their cheating causes @ (this is my pile of trash, just go with it)

 

they feel that that is in proportion to their spouses issues: @@

 

 

 

while in actuality the "high" and "relief" that they get from the cheating actually is being pulled from somewhere, and that somewhere is from their marriage and their spouse, their affair partner and any children involved etc.

 

Cheating actually causes: @@@@@@@@@@

 

That's a much bigger mess to clean up then their spouses @@.

 

And since a WS often had trouble dealing with just @@, the BS tends to get all of @@@@@@@@@@ or at least @@@@@@@@@ dumped on top of them.

 

So really, just deal with @@ or leave and take @ with you and leave the would-be BS to deal with @.

 

I understand it, I get it, a lot of people feel the urge, feel the pressure and often have trouble with their spouse. But you don't bring alcohol to an AA family reunion and expect everyone to go home happy.

[StoneCold]

Cheating actually causes: @@@@@@@@@@

 

That's a much bigger mess to clean up then their spouses @@.

 

 

 

That really is a matter of opinion tiger....you're saying cheating causes so much more than X (when X really could be anything); sorry but I dont buy that.

 

Maybe thats how you see it....but that may not be how someone else interprets it.

 

It all gets down to the players involved and that really is my point

Edited April 21, 2011 by StoneCold

[dreamingoftigers]

When you check out how cheating causes trauma, it isn't hard to see.

 

 

At the very least it adds more trouble regardless.

 

If your spouse is doing: @@@@@

 

And your cheating does: @@

 

then you have @@@@@@@ to deal with, right?

 

It doesn't solve anything and makes things worse.

 

UNLESS you are only out for yourself, and in that case, why bring it into the marriage?

 

I am not trying to be a moralist here, just when you break it down, it adds more baggage then subtracts far far more often.

[StoneCold]

When you check out how cheating causes trauma, it isn't hard to see.

 

 

At the very least it adds more trouble regardless.

 

If your spouse is doing: @@@@@

 

And your cheating does: @@

 

then you have @@@@@@@ to deal with, right?

 

It doesn't solve anything and makes things worse.

 

 

Not necessarily... your @@ may negate her @@@@@ (depending on what that may be).... now you only have @@ to deal with

[bentnotbroken]

Not necessarily... your @@ may negate her @@@@@ (depending on what that may be).... now you only have @@ to deal with

 

 

 

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@????????????

[StoneCold]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@????????????

 

tiger started it lol

[bentnotbroken]

tiger started it lol

 

 

Children...don't make me come over there.

[bentnotbroken]

Don't bring the belt, please?

 

 

Nope. Wire hangers......

[dreamingoftigers]

Not necessarily... your @@ may negate her @@@@@ (depending on what that may be).... now you only have @@ to deal with

 

How would cheating negate anything?

 

And your math doesn't add up.

 

It is like this: If you put my Dad in a room by himself with a bottle of Crown Royal, the next day you would find an empty bottle and a Hustler mag, gross, but easy to clean (if you had the stomach to).

 

Let's say change the scenario, you invite his brother over, he brings 1 bottle too. (This is like marriage) The next day, you would have two passed out idiots, lots of blood and 2 busted bottles (and a Hustler in a Pear Tree).

 

Now introduce one of the three remaining brothers, (yes there are 5) even just give them a smaller bottle. The next day you would find 2 bodies, one guy passed out, 3 smashed bottles, lots of blood and a few crime lab technicians. Not as easy to clean.

 

And that's why you don't put my father's family in a room together.

 

What the Hell else was I talking about?

[freestyle]

Nope. Wire hangers......

 

 

don't mess with Bent.........she's got tattoos........:p:p

[TigerCub]

sorry tigercub that was meant for the last poster..

 

no worries, I thought it was actually for me, because I was involved with a "married" man.

 

you asked this:

oh and also, How did you think of xmm's wife, just curious,because it makes me crazy to think we had this awful marriage and sex life, when we were on fire most of our marriage..call it ego, it just makes me crazy to think they think they were some goddesses that fulfilled his every need..ugh

 

and here's my response (according to how it happened with us):

I didn't think anything badly of her. She was more of an "abstract"** to me. I never met her, I never knew what she looked like, what she was like - all I knew from him is that he's not happy with his gf (mother of his children).

 

I never thought I was some goddess with him, because I never let him have (intercourse) with me - he wanted it, he practically begged for it - but I never could do that, because I really did care for him - so I couldn't just have meaningless sex with him - knowing how broken I'd feel inside when he goes home to her.

 

Speaking from my experience, I will tell you that I never thought of his gf as "less" than me or anything, and truthfully, what xMM and I had started out as an emotional A - but at the time, I didn't even know what those were. I just never realized it all until I fell for him.

 

Don't sweat the details of what the OW think of you.

You know you and you know your worth.

Affairs are so very destructive to everyone involved in them.

 

I'm sure that there were times when the OW envied that you HAD him - because they only had stolen moments, when you had him whenever you wanted.

 

I sometimes used to envy his GF for that - but most of the time, I felt really bad for my part in it, and for all the times he has cheated on her (with other people).

 

I know that my involvement was wrong - that is 1 mistake I never thought I'd make, and I'm truly sorry for what I've done.

 

But yeah, just to let you know, I never thought that she was some nasty terrible woman that couldn't cut it in the sack.

I never thought I was the vixen goddess there to rock his world either - for the most part - obviously during the A - I just wasn't thinking much

 

** In reference to "abstract" - I just knew that she was there - I didn't want to really think of her - because then it would make everything "real".

 

I truly am sorry that you've been so badly hurt, and I think it is good to vent and get things off your chest.

 

If anything, you should be very proud of your strength for deciding to leave him and for knowing you deserve better.

 

All the best

[Spark1111]

no worries, I thought it was actually for me, because I was involved with a "married" man.

 

you asked this:

oh and also, How did you think of xmm's wife, just curious,because it makes me crazy to think we had this awful marriage and sex life, when we were on fire most of our marriage..call it ego, it just makes me crazy to think they think they were some goddesses that fulfilled his every need..ugh

 

and here's my response (according to how it happened with us):

I didn't think anything badly of her. She was more of an "abstract"** to me. I never met her, I never knew what she looked like, what she was like - all I knew from him is that he's not happy with his gf (mother of his children).

 

I never thought I was some goddess with him, because I never let him have (intercourse) with me - he wanted it, he practically begged for it - but I never could do that, because I really did care for him - so I couldn't just have meaningless sex with him - knowing how broken I'd feel inside when he goes home to her.

 

Speaking from my experience, I will tell you that I never thought of his gf as "less" than me or anything, and truthfully, what xMM and I had started out as an emotional A - but at the time, I didn't even know what those were. I just never realized it all until I fell for him.

 

Don't sweat the details of what the OW think of you.

You know you and you know your worth.

Affairs are so very destructive to everyone involved in them.

 

I'm sure that there were times when the OW envied that you HAD him - because they only had stolen moments, when you had him whenever you wanted.

 

I sometimes used to envy his GF for that - but most of the time, I felt really bad for my part in it, and for all the times he has cheated on her (with other people).

 

I know that my involvement was wrong - that is 1 mistake I never thought I'd make, and I'm truly sorry for what I've done.

 

But yeah, just to let you know, I never thought that she was some nasty terrible woman that couldn't cut it in the sack.

I never thought I was the vixen goddess there to rock his world either - for the most part - obviously during the A - I just wasn't thinking much

 

** In reference to "abstract" - I just knew that she was there - I didn't want to really think of her - because then it would make everything "real".

 

I truly am sorry that you've been so badly hurt, and I think it is good to vent and get things off your chest.

 

If anything, you should be very proud of your strength for deciding to leave him and for knowing you deserve better.

 

All the best

 

Amazingly honest post TC! Thanks for this.

 

Those of us who are empathetic realists just cannot fathom the denial of another's emotions to engage in something that makes us feel good at their expense.

 

Huge, devastating, painful expense, as witnessed on these boards.

 

We don't buy that it was only our spouse who betrayed us, because it takes two to promote, deny our existence, reduce us to an inconsequential blip to lie and deceive us during an affair.

 

Like HA22, we howl at the moon and vent away.

[dreamingoftigers]

We don't buy that it was only our spouse who betrayed us, because it takes two to promote, deny our existence, reduce us to an inconsequential blip to lie and deceive us during an affair.

 

Like HA22, we howl at the moon and vent away.

 

Hear hear.

 

I never understood why so many clamour to protect the OW from any responsibility.

 

No disrespect to OW here, but there is complicit behaviour.

[StoneCold]

How would cheating negate anything?

 

And your math doesn't add up.

 

It depends what the issue is... again...quit assuming...you dont know all the combinations and permutations of problems an individual marriage may have.

 

It depends.....

 

It is like this: If you put my Dad in a room by himself with a bottle of Crown Royal, the next day you would find an empty bottle and a Hustler mag, gross, but easy to clean (if you had the stomach to).

 

Let's say change the scenario, you invite his brother over, he brings 1 bottle too. (This is like marriage) The next day, you would have two passed out idiots, lots of blood and 2 busted bottles (and a Hustler in a Pear Tree).

 

Now introduce one of the three remaining brothers, (yes there are 5) even just give them a smaller bottle. The next day you would find 2 bodies, one guy passed out, 3 smashed bottles, lots of blood and a few crime lab technicians. Not as easy to clean.

 

:confused::confused:

 

what on earth are you driving at here

[Spark1111]

See Spark...I dont deal in the realm of "equal" and "justified" because thats just not reality. Life doesnt work that way. I'm not looking to convince myself of anything...it is what it is with me. Perhaps many of you are wrapped up with this whole "convince yourself" thing because it makes you feel "valid" with regards to your argument....who knows.

 

I can tell you this. I believe that you reap what you sow...and this goes BOTH ways....If you play with fire something will get burnt; you hope its only your fingers but it might very well be the farm and no matter how it plays out...you'll have to take it on the chin because you DONT get to pick how your own garbage comes back at you. Again...this goes BOTH ways

 

 

 

Ah thats convenient...so when its time for the pendulum to swing the other way back at you the other person is supposed to "do the right thing"....Let me ask you what happened to "do the right thing" when the other party was dropping the ball? They are just as obligated to fix it but somehow they get a pass on this because what they did didnt involve sex. Well you know what...theres more than one way to betray someone and it doesn't always involve sex.

 

 

This issue I have with this lot is the same story plays out time and time again here...the players and fine details are different but the gist is the same....

 

"boohoo feel sorry for me because I'm innocent and my evil spouse cheated on me...I'm the perfect spouse, i've never done them wrong, and they cheated on me because they are the devil"

 

Well, I've lived enough to know that theres always the other side of the story and more often than not you are getting a biased half a story at best; which means you really DONT know the story. Very seldom are those who have cheated serial cheaters with horns and glowing red eyes. People that are like that tend not to be the type to marry to begin with (but there are always a few anomalies)...theres always more.

 

It seems like taking responsibility for actions only go one way around here. Nobody can every say:

 

"My marriage failed for the following reasons......he did this and that...I did that and this....and its done"

 

And even in the event that they do get around to saying some semblance of the above, they still have to turn around and make the cheater seem like the bad one. .... and my question is:

 

"how are you so sure that your contributions to the failure of your marriage were'nt as bad to the recipient or perhaps even worse?"

 

They act like the cheating is what destroyed the marriage when it was more likely death from a thousand cuts on both ends...cheating is just the iicing..... and iicing aint cake spark

 

 

 

Wrong... cheating is just a result of a deeper more serious problem. You know what hurts spouses and kids? incessant fighting, bickering, arguing, resentment, emotional neglect, physical neglect... the tension is so thick in the air its palpable....THAT is the death of your marriage/family right there and you're dreaming if you think the kids dont notice...as I said, death by a thousand cuts

 

Cheating is more often than not pissing on an already dead horse

 

If your marriage is over, if it cannot be fixed, everyone has a choice: End it as amicably and respectfully as possible and move on to find the relationship that you want.

 

What is SO HARD about that?

 

Why stay and have anger, resentment, bickering, physical and emotional neglect continue? That is two miserable people and that DOES make for miserable children. Who would want that?

 

IMO, cheating is bringing the gasoline to throw on the house fire. It is the "my marriage MADE me do this." That is immature and sophmoric.

 

No one is completely innocent in the demise of their marriage. Marriage takes two giving 100 percent to each other. It always has.

 

I think you are applying a skewed logic to all affairs and it is blocking some understanding of the pain that they cause.

 

Affairs can and do happen in happy marriages, and in good ones. Affairs can happen in a relationship where one partner IS giving 100% and the other partner has checked out. Affairs can often happen in marriages with reasons having NOTHING to do with the spouse, their level of love, devotion and acts of service.

 

Sometimes the HORSE IS NOT LAME, yet the WS has decided it is time to get the gun and shoot it dead anyway because the WS cannot bear the burden of feeding and caring for the horse.

[StoneCold]

We don't buy that it was only our spouse who betrayed us, because it takes two to promote, deny our existence, reduce us to an inconsequential blip to lie and deceive us during an affair.

 

oh...its the doe in the woods

[TigerCub]

Amazingly honest post TC! Thanks for this.

Thank you Spark

It is hard to admit the terrible things one has done.

It was extremely hard to look inside myself to see why I did what I did.

It was hard to face the voids in myself.

That's pretty much the only good thing that came out of my A experience - that I realized that I had so much work to do on ME.

I'm sure that doesn't help any betrayed spouse - they don't say "Well, I'm glad my spouse cheated, and it helped the OW fix what's broken in her"

 

I'm sure they don't think that, and I know that just because I had my own issues, doesn't excuse what I took part in.

 

 

Those of us who are empathetic realists just cannot fathom the denial of another's emotions to engage in something that makes us feel good at their expense.

 

That's exactly why I wanted to give my account in what happened, to help someone that's been so devastated by cheating - maybe that's my little way of making amends - in some weird way.

 

Through my experience and just from reading posts here, I've learned that the act of cheating doesn't reflect on how good or bad the betrayed spouse was - it just reflects on how broken the cheating partners are. I say this not in a judgmental way - just my own experience.

 

 

We don't buy that it was only our spouse who betrayed us, because it takes two to promote, deny our existence, reduce us to an inconsequential blip to lie and deceive us during an affair.

I've never been betrayed that way, but I've always felt that the spouse who did the cheating is the one guilty of the greater betrayal because they did make vows and promises, etc...

 

BUT - If there weren't people on the side willing to take part - then there wouldn't be a cheat in the first place - and so yes, I do believe as you do, that the APs are certainly to blame as well (for the cases in which they know that the person they are involved with is actually taken).

 

I know I was.

Edited April 21, 2011 by TigerCub

[dreamingoftigers]

It depends what the issue is... again...quit assuming...you dont know all the combinations and permutations of problems an individual marriage may have.

 

It depends.....

 

OKAY so you think that cheating may help cancel out some issues? Because the whole point was that no matter what Spouse B is doing, Spouse A adds more pressure/trouble to a relationship by cheating. Cheating isn't a great problem-solving method.

 

 

:confused::confused:

 

what on earth are you driving at here

 

I was more illustrating that bringing a third person into a marital conflict causes more issues then the baggage of two people, then I got tired, made a weird reference to my drunken family which could be seen as humor and a really vague attempt to illustrate my point. Ignore if you don't get....

[Spark1111]

Thank you Spark

It is hard to admit the terrible things one has done.

It was extremely hard to look inside myself to see why I did what I did.

It was hard to face the voids in myself.

That's pretty much the only good thing that came out of my A experience - that I realized that I had so much work to do on ME.

I'm sure that doesn't help any betrayed spouse - they don't say "Well, I'm glad my spouse cheated, and it helped the OW fix what's broken in her"

 

I'm sure they don't think that, and I know that just because I had my own issues, doesn't excuse what I took part in.

 

I am thrilled when anyone grows and learns from a mistake. For BSs, such as myself, introspection and change was a condition of mine to reconcile with WS. I am happy you, as an OW, did the same.

 

 

 

 

That's exactly why I wanted to give my account in what happened, to help someone that's been so devastated by cheating - maybe that's my little way of making amends - in some weird way.

 

Through my experience and just from reading posts here, I've learned that the act of cheating doesn't reflect on how good or bad the betrayed spouse was - it just reflects on how broken the cheating partners are. I say this not in a judgmental way - just my own experience.

 

I so agree with this. If all people unhappy at times in a marriage cheated, all people would cheat. Yet, almost half do not. Why? If he and I were in the same, "supposedly" miserable marriage, why didn't I look to cheat? It is so easy to do so, especially for women.

 

 

 

I've never been betrayed that way, but I've always felt that the spouse who did the cheating is the one guilty of the greater betrayal because they did make vows and promises, etc...

 

BUT - If there weren't people on the side willing to take part - then there wouldn't be a cheat in the first place - and so yes, I do believe as you do, that the APs are certainly to blame as well.

 

I know I was.

 

Every MC and IC first focuses on the WS. Why do think the mental health professionals do this? Not in an angry or accusatory way; rather like handling fragile glass with kid gloves. It is very telling to me who they think the broken party is, IMO.

 

And yes, for us BSs, we NEED to get around to the OW/OM in therapy, and what we learn of the mindset is often equally.....sad and needy; as you said, "unfilled voids," usually from childhood.

 

Thanks again for your response!

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you Spark

It is hard to admit the terrible things one has done.

It was extremely hard to look inside myself to see why I did what I did.

It was hard to face the voids in myself.

That's pretty much the only good thing that came out of my A experience - that I realized that I had so much work to do on ME.

I'm sure that doesn't help any betrayed spouse - they don't say "Well, I'm glad my spouse cheated, and it helped the OW fix what's broken in her"

 

I'm sure they don't think that, and I know that just because I had my own issues, doesn't excuse what I took part in.

 

That's exactly why I wanted to give my account in what happened, to help someone that's been so devastated by cheating - maybe that's my little way of making amends - in some weird way.

 

Through my experience and just from reading posts here, I've learned that the act of cheating doesn't reflect on how good or bad the betrayed spouse was - it just reflects on how broken the cheating partners are. I say this not in a judgmental way - just my own experience.

 

I've never been betrayed that way, but I've always felt that the spouse who did the cheating is the one guilty of the greater betrayal because they did make vows and promises, etc...

 

BUT - If there weren't people on the side willing to take part - then there wouldn't be a cheat in the first place - and so yes, I do believe as you do, that the APs are certainly to blame as well (for the cases in which they know that the person they are involved with is actually taken).

 

I know I was.

 

This is a nice glimpse into your character.

[StoneCold]

If your marriage is over, if it cannot be fixed, everyone has a choice: End it as amicably and respectfully as possible and move on to find the relationship that you want.

 

What is SO HARD about that?

 

Sure.. that goes both ways spark...not ONE

 

Why stay and have anger, resentment, bickering, physical and emotional neglect continue? That is two miserable people and that DOES make for miserable children. Who would want that?

 

again....both ways

 

IMO, cheating is bringing the gasoline to throw on the house fire. It is the "my marriage MADE me do this." That is immature and sophmoric.

 

yeah but if the house is already 90% burnt....its done....you aint getting that house back.

 

how are you so sure its "my marriage MADE me do this." in every case?.... maybe its "my marriage is f*cked and I dont care". Sure you should end the marriage but thats a process (legal and financial that WILL take some amount of time) BUT your needs are NOW.

 

No one is completely innocent in the demise of their marriage. Marriage takes two giving 100 percent to each other. It always has.

 

Then take responsibility for your contribution rather than chucking all the stones one way

 

I think you are applying a skewed logic to all affairs and it is blocking some understanding of the pain that they cause.

 

I think you're taking skewed logic with blinders on to the ultimate destruction of marriage in general

 

Affairs can and do happen in happy marriages, and in good ones. Affairs can happen in a relationship where one partner IS giving 100% and the other partner has checked out. Affairs can often happen in marriages with reasons having NOTHING to do with the spouse, their level of love, devotion and acts of service.

 

Sure...that CAN happen...and I'm sure it does from time to time.

 

BUT affairs also happen in poor, destructive, hurtful relationships. Affairs can happen where one partner gives 0% and the other ends up checking out. Affairs can often happen in marriages with reasons having EVERYTHING to do with the spouse....and very likely more often than not

 

I can acknowledge the reciprocal but for some reason you cant at all. hmmmm

 

Sometimes the HORSE IS NOT LAME,

 

Sure....But more often than not it is.....I've witnessed this so many times and like the old saying goes...

 

where theres smoke...theres fire

 

 

yet the WS has decided it is time to get the gun and shoot it dead anyway because the WS cannot bear the burden of feeding and caring for the horse.

 

Again... its all about the other spouse right? no no.... the other spouse gets a pass to do their contribution to the destruction of the marriage and when its time for their destruction to come back at them its gotta be done their way because thats convenient for them

[StoneCold]

I was more illustrating that bringing a third person into a marital conflict causes more issues then the baggage of two people, then I got tired, made a weird reference to my drunken family which could be seen as humor and a really vague attempt to illustrate my point. Ignore if you don't get....

 

yeah but you used an illustration of your dad and his brothers.... well sorry but your dad and his brothers are NOT EVERYBODY ELSE.

 

You are oversimplyfying

 

And i never said cheating was a problem solver...but then again neither is the antics of the spouse. But somehow the onus is on the other spouse to fix their sh*t and the other ones sh*t while they just kick back and have a Martguerita? because its convenient for them?

 

Hell no.

 

You want things to fix? you do your part...they do theirs....

Edited April 21, 2011 by StoneCold

[StoneCold]

we should just agree to disagree....as we could go on forever

 

you see it one way....I see it another

[HalfAlive22]

yeah but you used an illustration of your dad and his brothers.... well sorry but your dad and his brothers are NOT EVERYBODY ELSE.

 

You are oversimplyfying

 

And i never said cheating was a problem solver...but then again neither is the antics of the spouse. But somehow the onus is on the other spouse to fix their sh*t and the other ones sh*t while they just kick back and have a Martguerita? because its convenient for them?

 

Hell no.

 

You want things to fix? you do your part...they do theirs....

 

reading all your posts has just verified I'm not crazy at all..much