Author Woggle Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 Woggle, do you like school? Have you ever considered taking a course in feminism? I did take a woman's studies course and it was pretty much misandry 101. I admit they are not all like that but it left a sour taste in my mouth. I have no issue with feminism because at it's core it is about equality which everybody should support. Feminism is sort of like christianity in the sense that in it's purest form it is a very positive thing and most of it's believers are good people but there are a group of loudmouths who preach hatred that have given it a bad name. I think the increase in atheism is a backlash against how the religious right has hijacked christianity and the backlash against feminism by many men is because misandrists have become it's most prominent voices. Nobody wants to get behind something they think is against them. People like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine Mackinnon are their version of Jerry Falwell.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I did take a woman's studies course and it was pretty much misandry 101. I admit they are not all like that but it left a sour taste in my mouth. I have no issue with feminism because at it's core it is about equality which everybody should support. Feminism is sort of like christianity in the sense that in it's purest form it is a very positive thing and most of it's believers are good people but there are a group of loudmouths who preach hatred that have given it a bad name. I think the increase in atheism is a backlash against how the religious right has hijacked christianity and the backlash against feminism by many men is because misandrists have become it's most prominent voices. Nobody wants to get behind something they think is against them. People like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine Mackinnon are their version of Jerry Falwell. Seriously dealing with the cynicism is hard. You don't want to lose it completely... because trusting women blindly is simply a stupid idea. I don't completely know how to deal with this issue... but for the moment I've just been able to pigeon hole it for the moment. I just focus my distrust on the group that has been least trustworthy for me in the past. For you that might be feminists... for me that is American women in general... some other guy redheads. It's hard to deal with because our whole society today feels designed to screw guys over. It might not really be that way... but it's what I see and feel.
laRubiaBonita Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I don't want to punish myself but I don't want to turn a blind eye either. turn a blind eye to what? I don't hate women but I feel like I am constantly being forced to defend myself because I was born with a penis. When I am told that I deserve to be treated the way I have been in the past just because I was born with a penis how do you expect me to react? Do you expect me to sit back and say gee I do deserve to be treated like crap because I have a penis? and who continues to treat you like crap? (your mother?) What am I supposed to think when I read something like this? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallwomenstalk.com%2Fdo-women-in-great-relationships-cheat%2F&ei=UbqrTcO2DM7dgQeJoeDzBQ&usg=AFQjCNGlqD7A48wD_cr1RlCqWXvygMvAnQ and why do you continue to read garbage that will only anger you? isn't that like a recovering alcoholic that is in treatment/ counseling that continues to drink wine because it is whiskey that they 'had a problem with'?
welikeincrowds Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I have no issue with feminism because at it's core it is about equality which everybody should support. Feminism is sort of like christianity in the sense that in it's purest form it is a very positive thing and most of it's believers are good people but there are a group of loudmouths who preach hatred that have given it a bad name. Well Woggle, I appreciate the sense of good will I'm getting from you, especially since you've admitted to having a bad experience with a class. But I don't think this is accurate. Firstly, feminism is not something to believe in or have faith for. It's a body of discussion about not necessarily women, but gender. There are many active voices and there is a lot of disagreement, as there should be. Gender seems to be a significant topic of interest for you, even a passion of yours, which is why I think you would highly enjoy the subject. The most important thing for a feminism class is its reading list. Like any subject, it's the great, published thinkers that are worth listening to. Some confusion stems from the conflation of feminist theory with rhetoric written by identifying feminists. (Very roughly speaking, the former is for understanding, and the latter is for change.) Also, deconstruction and understanding of the "backlash to feminism" is, ironically, a significant topics of discussion within feminism, and another thing I think you'd benefit from learning about. "Feminist" has been made into a bad word in our country, by many forces and for many reasons, and it is enlightening to examine how that is connected to perceptions of, and expectations for, men and women.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Cynicism is a cop-out. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
threebyfate Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 welikeincrowds, what you're suggesting is that woggle try to understand what he fears the most, to combat his fear. That would be a rational approach. Unfortunately, woggle's fear can't be rationalized since it's an emotional response to years of abuse from a crazy woman who utilized feminism as a weapon (his mother). It's like feminist catch phrases trigger a domino-like effect of reliving abuse. So what he did to strengthen himself was to use anger and hatred (misogyny) to stiffen his spine against his internal fear and weakness. Net effect, obsessive looping from one extreme to the other. These threads that he creates are intended to draw women in so he can "resist" and feel strong again. They are vampiric in nature. The more he resists, the stronger he feels since that's been his coping pattern for so many years.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 welikeincrowds, what you're suggesting is that woggle try to understand what he fears the most, to combat his fear. That would be a rational approach. Unfortunately, woggle's fear can't be rationalized since it's an emotional response to years of abuse from a crazy woman who utilized feminism as a weapon (his mother). It's like feminist catch phrases trigger a domino-like effect of reliving abuse. So what he did to strengthen himself was to use anger and hatred (misogyny) to stiffen his spine against his internal fear and weakness. Net effect, obsessive looping from one extreme to the other. These threads that he creates are intended to draw women in so he can "resist" and feel strong again. They are vampiric in nature. The more he resists, the stronger he feels since that's been his coping pattern for so many years. This seems rather insightful. I would add that no matter how much he doesn't like his mother, he seems to feel being like his mother is better than being like his father. A choice I understand completely.
threebyfate Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 This seems rather insightful. I would add that no matter how much he doesn't like his mother, he seems to feel being like his mother is better than being like his father. A choice I understand completely.That's because he perceived his mother as being in the power seat. As it relates to himself and his father, she was since she abused both of them. So he in turn, abuses women when he feels weak. And the beat goes on with the abusive cycle.
stace79 Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I know how you feel, except I'm cynical toward both men AND women. I think most men are lazy philanderers who just want to use women for companionship and sex until they get old and saggy or too clingy. And I think many women are superficial and shallow and just want a marriage & kids & a man who will take care of their every need. I try to focus on taking people on a case-by-case basis instead of lumping everybody into one group. But it's definitely difficult.
Author Woggle Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 I don't see how I abuse women. Yes I know I am a broken record with this but I am just venting. I don't outright insult women or any of that and I never make it personal. I don't know if I want to be my mother but I damn sure don't want to be my father. Just because I have pride in being a man does not mean I want to put down women.
threebyfate Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I don't hate women but I feel like I am constantly being forced to defend myself because I was born with a penis. When I am told that I deserve to be treated the way I have been in the past just because I was born with a penis how do you expect me to react? Do you expect me to sit back and say gee I do deserve to be treated like crap because I have a penis? Maybe but I feel like most though not all women want me to suffer for something I had nothing to do with and I am sick of it. I was just reading this article about women cheating and I see all these comments about how it is about time men get the tables turned on them but then I see women on hear getting up in arms about porn. Looking at images you don't actually interact with is a major sin yet a woman actually cheating is perfectly okay? Does this make any sense to you? This is why I always defend porn. If women defend their sisters who blatantly betray a man then I will defend looking at images. The two above quotes are very mild for you but there are some very generalized assumptions about women, that might be true for some but aren't true for many. So, some women said some things and now you have to attack others who haven't expressed the same sentiments, some who've lived through being cheated on like myself, bundling women all into one big horrible bundle. No doubt I can just ignore you and in future, I probably will since you're not interested in getting better. I don't see how I abuse women. Yes I know I am a broken record with this but I am just venting. I don't outright insult women or any of that and I never make it personal. I don't know if I want to be my mother but I damn sure don't want to be my father. Just because I have pride in being a man does not mean I want to put down women.
Author Woggle Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 I never said that these thoughts are healthy or right but when I read certain things that is how I feel sometimes. I am just being honest. When I get into a certain mood I feel like my back is against the wall and I have to defend my masculinity.
whichwayisup Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 I don't know if I want to be my mother but I damn sure don't want to be my father. Then just be "you". Woggle. Who's married and happy. Who has a wife who adores and loves him. Woggle who has some pretty good friends, a good job, a nice house, is in good health. Is lucky to have what he has in his life. Woggle who likes NJ, likes to travel and plan special things for his wife. Who likes to help others, who has a funny sense of humour... And so on. Don't mould yourself into someone (mom/dad) that you think you should be. You are who you are, Wogs. Be happy!
Author Woggle Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 This is true and it's not just about gender either. This is a relationship forum so of course that side of my cynicism comes out but I tend to look at life in general like that. If you are not rough and hard society will eat you alive.
lino Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 What am I supposed to think when I read something like this? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallwomenstalk.com%2Fdo-women-in-great-relationships-cheat%2F&ei=UbqrTcO2DM7dgQeJoeDzBQ&usg=AFQjCNGlqD7A48wD_cr1RlCqWXvygMvAnQ If you're digging up stuff like this you're more than likely thinking about this sort of thing too much and also spending too much time on the internet. I'd suggest taking up a new hobby to chew up the time you're wasting reading garbage like that. Have you ever travelled much? If not then you should definitely see more of the world. Don't get me wrong though, I do agree with some of the things you say & often your valid opinion on things is unfairly trashed by the wannabe holier than thou regulars here. I think it would even be best for you to stop reading this website.
jane100 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Do you end up heartbroken or cynical - for me that is the question. How people respond to romantic disappointment and struggle can be very different. Some people with tragic personal histories do not end up cynical, it is not axiomatic. And some people with minor disappointments in life can end up very cynical. There are some cynical posters here on LS, Musemaj and others, who just churn out the same cynical misogynist phrases every thread they contribute in, its like a vat of poison they are stuck in and only feel happy when they're spreading it around. Why this is I do not know. Edited April 19, 2011 by jane100
Author Woggle Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 I certainly do not condone what these guys say but I sympathize with them. They have probably felt the same pain I have felt for most of my life.
jane100 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 But pain is not the same as cynicism ... I have alot of respect for the former. The latter is a road to nowhere ..... as I said I am not sure where it comes from. And as for misogyny, and the misogyny on LS, it doesn't necessarily come out of pain. Quite often it just comes out of hatred pure and simple and hatred of women in particular. There is no compassion (even self-compassion) understanding, analysis or insight there, its just like someone vomiting up in front of you but they can do it online because its anonymous. Tolerating it is not understanding it, its just well tolerating it (and by saying nothing even condoning it).
Author Woggle Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 Cynicism comes from pain and I know my issues with women certainly do.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 It's so easy to give in to feelings of cynicism. When you do, you give yourself permission to be resigned and defeated. The best way to avoid negative or cynical thoughts is to change your focus to something more positive. And the best way to do that is simply to do things you love to do. When you're having fun and enjoying life, it makes no sense to dwell on fears and negative thoughts. I'm a lot more cynical and realistic about men than I used to be. But I've gotten to the point where this feels freeing, rather than depressing. I don't take men and relationships as seriously as I used to, and I don't expect a man to be the answer to my problems. I can just have fun with them, and let them go if it's time. I realize that no matter how good it gets, things could go awry at any time, so the best I can do is to enjoy the good times while they last.
jane100 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Cynicism comes from pain and I know my issues with women certainly do. Well I hope things improve for you if that is the case, its not an easy thing to deal with. Cynicsm can get into your bones if you're not careful ...
Author Woggle Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 I could have fun with it if I were still in my single player stage but I worry all the time that my wife is going to fall out of love with me and drop the divorce bomb. I wonder sometimes if I am just a naive sucker for actually believing a woman is serious about love and commitment. I don't want to feel this way but I can't help it.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 I could have fun with it if I were still in my single player stage but I worry all the time that my wife is going to fall out of love with me and drop the divorce bomb. I wonder sometimes if I am just a naive sucker for actually believing a woman is serious about love and commitment. I don't want to feel this way but I can't help it. Does she do anything to give you the impression she doesn't love you and isn't committed? And please don't answer by telling us what other women do. What does she do?
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