Summer Breeze Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Hi. I am taking marriage seriously. I have been married twice - first marriage I divorced my ex because of alcohol and domestic abuse. No infidelity. Currently happily married for almost 13 years no infidelity in our relationship. Some people just have little morals or have no problems with betraying those they claimed to love. Some people have ego issues and think they should be able to bang whoever they want married or not. I do agree it seems as if infidelity is rampant I do not understand this because divorce is still an option. You will see that many MM who cheat and get busted end up choosing to stay married, even after they have sworn they love the woman they cheated with. I also think many women who allow themselves to be a mistress must have some sort of esteem issues to allow themselves to be someone's option. There is very little loyalty with these type of people. Eventually, they will end up getting their heart broken and as bad as this sounds, I have little sympathy for that. To knowingly and willfully decide to cheat or decide to be the affair partner of a married person is a cowardly act; and shows those people have no respect for anyone and are only out for what they can get out of life, no caring who they hurt. But, I also know many people who are very happy with their spouse and infidelity is not something they choose to do. They have more respect for their spouse and themselves. Just my opinion. Interesting. This thread is specifically about people taking M seriously yet you've written precious little about the person who didn't take their M seriously and loads about APs. I would have thought the focus should have been on the WS.
Summer Breeze Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Sidebar: just saw an elderly couple walking by holding hands and talking. I wonder what they've been through in their relationship. If they've ever separated, if they still sleep in the same bed, how many affairs if any have taken place,etc. all these things go through my head as I observe couples especially more mature couples . In the end perhaps it's all about what areas a person chooses to compromise in. an older lady told me once that if you're in a relationship and things aren't going well, a they sometimes won't, dont tell the world of the negative only to have everyone looking at you foolishly because you made the decision to stay with that person after the dirt he/she has done... Ymmv...but for me, regardless of what other people know, I feel bad about myself knowing how much happiness I would be sacrificing just to avoid being single & stay with someone who has clearly betrayed me or just isn't treating me well. My parents are that couple. They are in their 70s and married almost 50 years. If you saw them you'd go awww look at that. They hold hands and they laugh. My mother is scarred from my father cheating on her for about 35 of those years. She still cries about it but if you saw them walking down the street you'd think they were the poster kids for the perfect life. My neighbor is 68 and he's been living with his partner for a little over 2 years. They are tremendously happy (from what I can tell) and they've shared a moment of their lives, not the whole lifetime. Just because you see a couple walking down the streets and they're of a certain age don't assume it's all good or it's all 'lifelong'. We see just what people want us to see and that's in here as well. I see OW going over the top and I see BS doing the same. We have sides to take no matter how objective we think we are and there are moments when it does come out no matter how careful we are.
Spark1111 Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I sound what? realistic? Of course I do. I learn from the mistakes of others. You see, one of the greatest differences between me and the others lies in my capacity to learn by observing people, how they are, what mistakes they do, the risks in everything, and I was also born with the gift of knowing that emotions and feelings are simply illusions, that and the ability to create, amplify, and destroy feelings and emotions, makes for a very funny time. Trust me. Every time I see people bright-eyed with their new found love, and months, or maybe years later, they have this haunted look on their faces. How great it is, to know that you are capable of doing something that other people can't. To see beyond all of the BS, all of the lies, all of the illusions. And be. Untouchable. Oh, and how I saw it coming. Even when I tell people that yeah, you are going to call me bitter, and I proceed to showing why and how, relationships exist mostly in the head of the people who believe in such nonsense, that I am 'bitter' or that I haven't found the one . Of course I've found the one. I AM the One. Perfect! Then you will never have to marry or choose monogamy! And in this decision, you have my full-fledged support!
Spark1111 Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 My parents are that couple. They are in their 70s and married almost 50 years. If you saw them you'd go awww look at that. They hold hands and they laugh. My mother is scarred from my father cheating on her for about 35 of those years. She still cries about it but if you saw them walking down the street you'd think they were the poster kids for the perfect life. My neighbor is 68 and he's been living with his partner for a little over 2 years. They are tremendously happy (from what I can tell) and they've shared a moment of their lives, not the whole lifetime. Just because you see a couple walking down the streets and they're of a certain age don't assume it's all good or it's all 'lifelong'. We see just what people want us to see and that's in here as well. I see OW going over the top and I see BS doing the same. We have sides to take no matter how objective we think we are and there are moments when it does come out no matter how careful we are. I agree! Especially for my mother's generation when women did not have the means to leave or wanted to bear the brunt of the stigma of divorce. Thank God that no longer exists as it once did and women and men can make informed decisions regarding whether they want to stay in a relationship. As I did. After my H had an affair. I chose to stay and see if we could work it out again. I certainly did not have to. No one forced me to. Money, children, assets were the least of my concerns. I was fortunate in that regard and I know it. We did. We fell in love again. We choose monogamy today. We nurture and protect our marriage. We are very, very happy. If it is not for you, you also have my full-fledged support also.
donnamaybe Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Well, you can't blame people for believing that love lasts forever. Disney movies, Da Beers, all of those romantic movies etc. Its just part of nature's plan, but people make it be more than what it really is. A simple trick to make women and men mate. Isn't it funny how most relationships don't last reach the 2 year mark, but yet people insist on investing their finances, their youth, their emotional and physical health on a silly belief that the 'one' is coming. As if we all have a personal Mua'Dib waiting for us to 'grow' emotionally, by being rejected/dumped/cheated on/ settled for Marriage and co-habitation make no sense and are relics of a past ruled by religion. Marriage cannot last forever(yes, you all know of a couple who's been married for 50 years), but with the no fault divorce, and with the benefits of divorce, people aren't going to restrain their human nature. Marriage is dead and gone. And as co-habitation becomes more and more marriage, that too will end. to a life of monogomy How can people be monogamous? The Human species wasn't made to be monogamous. Its like trying to walk over water. Only one guy managed to do it. This entire post smacks of justification for sneaking around, which is actually the topic of this thread - the topic is NOT "does love (which actually should be "lust" as it appears that is what was meant by this quoted post) last forever." The OP simply believes people would do better living a life with integrity; i.e. NOT lying and sneaking around. You wanna f around? Get a divorce. Pretty simple, really.
Author luvflower Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) The 2 parts I've bolded. 1 - everyone who throws out stats about how this works and that works does exactly the same. Mr Cairo found information that isn't readily available or shouted out from the rooftops. I personally found all of that very interesting and a lot of food for thought, as I do when I see people quote stats and articles to support their theories. We can't give people a hard time for supporting what they are saying and many do themselves great disrespect for not reading and contemplating things. . 2 - With all due respect almost every person in here is here because either they or someone they love chose not to be monogamous. That includes you. I have no doubt you and your H are in a great place now but he chose not to be monogamous until someone forced his hand and he chose to stay in the R. I think by the stories in here and IRL it's standard most unfaithful people will stay in the A until they'e caught. I feel horrible saying that specifically to you because your R is doing so well. I'll apologize here and now for it appearing personal but it is something I felt strongly about replying to. Ok I can truly appreciate this post. Simply stated, but food for thought. If someones relationship is as happy and wonderful as some posters claim, then why are they here? Even if they are here to speak on "other people's" problems, that means these issues are real and people need to open their eyes. There is a huge problem when married women are getting std's ,hiv and emotional scars that can never be cureddue to men who will lie to protect their image, financial security, etc. some of these men are selfish bisexuals while others are just selfish... To SPARK111 how do you explain your "great relationship" to victims of these situations? This society needs to wake up and see things for what they really are in order to repair such deplorable relationship issues. Edited April 18, 2011 by luvflower
bentnotbroken Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Ok I can truly appreciate this post. Simply stated, but food for thought. If someones relationship is as happy and wonderful as some posters claim, then why are they here? Even if they are here to speak on "other people's" problems, that means these issues are real and people need to open their eyes. There is a huge problem when married women are getting std's ,hiv and emotional scars that can never be cureddue to men who will lie to protect their image, financial security, etc. some of these men are selfish bisexuals while others are just selfish... To SPARK111 how do you explain your "great relationship" to victims of these situations? This society needs to wake up and see things for what they really are in order to repair such deplorable relationship issues. Though I don't assume to speak for Spark(she does a damn good job for herself:love:), but a great relationship at this point in her marriage has come as a result of hard work. Work that not everyone is willing to expend or even has the tools to handle. She and her husband have made decisions for their future based on what they have learned from past problems. Marriage does not equal roses and sunset riding every day of the relationship. We are human...so a perfect marriage isn't a possible when non-perfect people are involved. I think experiences certainly color our opinions about most things...but our experiences aren't necessarily the experience of others. Spark, Owl, Thomas' experiences and a few others here are not my experiences. I have seen more unhappy marriages than I want to, doesn't meant there aren't some good marriages out there. Sex outside of marriage is also not deadly to just one gender. Buried a family member about 20 years ago(at the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic) because his wife cheated while he was away in the military. He was a much loved son, brother and cousin. I don't wish what he went through on anyone, but he died not by his actions but the actions of another. Should I hold all women as responsible because this happened to our family? Should I dismiss the happy marriages of friends and family because his was(nor mine) were not happy? Society as a whole HAS slowly turned it's back on what God intended for marriage(the only view I use though I acknowledge other views have existed for generations and are persistent in many parts of the world). It isn't that all those with problems bury their heads. Some actually face the issues head on and deal with them to build a stronger, more mutually respectful and satisfying relationship.
Spark1111 Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Ok I can truly appreciate this post. Simply stated, but food for thought. If someones relationship is as happy and wonderful as some posters claim, then why are they here? Even if they are here to speak on "other people's" problems, that means these issues are real and people need to open their eyes. There is a huge problem when married women are getting std's ,hiv and emotional scars that can never be cureddue to men who will lie to protect their image, financial security, etc. some of these men are selfish bisexuals while others are just selfish... To SPARK111 how do you explain your "great relationship" to victims of these situations? This society needs to wake up and see things for what they really are in order to repair such deplorable relationship issues. About the bolded....I would never even attempt to try. Everyone, you included, must decide what you want, express it in a clear concise manner, and work hard with your partner to maintain it in ANY relationship. If you decide what you want and need cannot be obtained, or what is wanted and needed by your SO is outside the scope of what you can give them, then you can choose to end the relationship and seek someone else. Society cannot fix your relationships. Only you can. And if it becomes unfixable, or your partner does not care or cooperate, then it is up to you to change it or walk away from it. Like any goal, relationships must be worked at by BOTH partners; they do not "just happen" to you or for you.
Author luvflower Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 This entire post smacks of justification for sneaking around, which is actually the topic of this thread - the topic is NOT "does love (which actually should be "lust" as it appears that is what was meant by this quoted post) last forever." The OP simply believes people would do better living a life with integrity; i.e. NOT lying and sneaking around. You wanna f around? Get a divorce. Pretty simple, really. Thanks. True that some of us get a little off topic when we get excited ab not these topics. I actually agree with a lot of what mr.cairo is saying. some of us us here get offended by people being so forthright in their approach. But people should listen to the mr cairo's of the world.they are not crazy jaded, totally, lol... I too promote realism. When people act as of they can't see the truth it's sickening...literally.
donnamaybe Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Thanks. True that some of us get a little off topic when we get excited ab not these topics. I actually agree with a lot of what mr.cairo is saying. some of us us here get offended by people being so forthright in their approach. But people should listen to the mr cairo's of the world.they are not crazy jaded, totally, lol... I too promote realism. When people act as of they can't see the truth it's sickening...literally. He is free to have his opinion, and frankly I haven't any problem with it at all. But just don't lie and sneak around. That's all. Lying and sneaking have NOTHING to do with what he is talking about which is love becoming stale. Fine. IF you fall out of love, then move on. Again, simple. Unless, of course, we're talking about people who don't give a rat's arse about anyone but themselves. Then, I suppose, they will find some sort of explanation for their lying and sneaking to try to make themselves feel better.
Mimolicious Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Thing is that now you don't even need to leave your house to meet someone or to run into someone from the past.
nyrias Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Some statistics i found online. http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html And I quote " Percentage of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57% Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%" Those are pretty bad odds. In fact, the most damaging one are: Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74% Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68% I think if you believe this statistics (and i think probably it is low-balled cause people may NOT admit to infidelity), then MOST (not all) people are not built for monogamy. I think there is serious issues in the institution of one-man-one-woman marriage. Many entered into it without the full understanding of the long-term psychological effects of a commitment FOREVER (and many just don't care about that). Disney and all those movies that preaches living happily ever after obviously do not help. In ancient China, men can have multiple wives. Often the "lead" wife chose additional wives for the men. I think it is an accepted practice even till early 1900s. More recently, many men in Hong Kong went to China (for business) and have mistresses there. It has become a big social problem. Now obviously this is NOT fair for the women involved but many (due to econ reasons?) do not seem to mind. The point is that (and i agree with poster who said this earlier) monogamy is very very hard .. like walking on water. The reason (as i have read this site) why infidelity hurts is because of the betrayal, the breaking of a 'social contract', a promise at the wedding. What if that is changed? What if the "promise" is different? I can think of TWO examples. First, may be marriage should be timed, not forever, but renewable after a fixed period of time. So there is no obligation to be locked in a relationship forever. Secondly, may be one shouldn't promise 100% of their body & mind to others. Just like in ancient china, you have to share your husband with others. Obviously that is not fair, but it can be made fair so the arrangement is both side. Who says we should not have a marriage (or you can call it something else) that says, you will have me 80% of the time, but i will keep some secrets from you, and Friday is my day-off from the relationship. There will be NO deception and no betrayal. I wonder if people if go for THAT instead, knowing that a "forever-exclusive" type marriage will have a high chance of fail.
Author luvflower Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Actually, I dont think the words in marriage vows are the only thing that trips people up. Just as crucial are the nonverbal and sometimes verbal messages that say to a SO that they aren't good enough or worth committing to. And although many confident and intelligent people enter relationships, perhaps there should be a clause reminding people that the way an bother human being treats you does not dictate your worth... Some statistics i found online. http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html And I quote " Percentage of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57% Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%" Those are pretty bad odds. In fact, the most damaging one are: Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74% Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68% I think if you believe this statistics (and i think probably it is low-balled cause people may NOT admit to infidelity), then MOST (not all) people are not built for monogamy. I think there is serious issues in the institution of one-man-one-woman marriage. Many entered into it without the full understanding of the long-term psychological effects of a commitment FOREVER (and many just don't care about that). Disney and all those movies that preaches living happily ever after obviously do not help. In ancient China, men can have multiple wives. Often the "lead" wife chose additional wives for the men. I think it is an accepted practice even till early 1900s. More recently, many men in Hong Kong went to China (for business) and have mistresses there. It has become a big social problem. Now obviously this is NOT fair for the women involved but many (due to econ reasons?) do not seem to mind. The point is that (and i agree with poster who said this earlier) monogamy is very very hard .. like walking on water. The reason (as i have read this site) why infidelity hurts is because of the betrayal, the breaking of a 'social contract', a promise at the wedding. What if that is changed? What if the "promise" is different? I can think of TWO examples. First, may be marriage should be timed, not forever, but renewable after a fixed period of time. So there is no obligation to be locked in a relationship forever. Secondly, may be one shouldn't promise 100% of their body & mind to others. Just like in ancient china, you have to share your husband with others. Obviously that is not fair, but it can be made fair so the arrangement is both side. Who says we should not have a marriage (or you can call it something else) that says, you will have me 80% of the time, but i will keep some secrets from you, and Friday is my day-off from the relationship. There will be NO deception and no betrayal. I wonder if people if go for THAT instead, knowing that a "forever-exclusive" type marriage will have a high chance of fail. Edited April 18, 2011 by luvflower
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