Jazzari Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 These are all things that you have decided work for YOU. They don't work for everyone. I, for one, am very glad that your spirituality and process of belief don't get to make certain choices in MY life. Make those choices for yourself, I'm all fine and dandy with that. But leave others to decide what works or does not work for them.You made the choice to get pregnant. Maybe it was a mistake, but it happened just the same and you have to take responsibility for it. I could care less what you do with your body as long as you don't harm anyone else. It's the body of the baby and the baby's rights I am fighting for.
tinktronik Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 You made the choice to get pregnant. Maybe it was a mistake, but it happened just the same and you have to take responsibility for it. I could care less what you do with your body as long as you don't harm anyone else. It's the body of the baby and the baby's rights I am fighting for. I did make the choice to get pregnant. In fact, I planned my pregnancy, it was no mistake. My baby will be well loved and well cared for and I'm quite happy to take responsibility for her. What a rude thing to say. You obviously have not followed any of what I have said regarding my pregnancy. Fortunately, you can't make a choice on what women other than yourself do with their bodies; and attempts to legislate for a fetus at the expense of a walking, breathing, talking human woman have largely failed in this country at this time. Again, I am grateful that your religious, spiritual or basis of forming this opinion that many others do not share do not dictate the rules for everyone and are not foist upon others. I would gladly fight for the rights to live without your religious, spiritual or personal opinion oppressing my choice and that of many others.
Jazzari Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I did make the choice to get pregnant. In fact, I planned my pregnancy, it was no mistake. My baby will be well loved and well cared for and I'm quite happy to take responsibility for her. What a rude thing to say. You obviously have not followed any of what I have said regarding my pregnancy. Fortunately, you can't make a choice on what women other than yourself do with their bodies; and attempts to legislate for a fetus at the expense of a walking, breathing, talking human woman have largely failed in this country at this time. Again, I am grateful that your religious, spiritual or basis of forming this opinion that many others do not share do not dictate the rules for everyone and are not foist upon others. I would gladly fight for the rights to live without your religious, spiritual or personal opinion oppressing my choice and that of many others. The "you" was general. Not specific to your experiences. Again, I'm talking about the rights of the baby. Out of curiousity, do you think that late term abortion should be legal? After all, by your definition it's still the mother's body.
tinktronik Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 The "you" was general. Not specific to your experiences. Again, I'm talking about the rights of the baby. Out of curiousity, do you think that late term abortion should be legal? After all, by your definition it's still the mother's body. I think abortion should be legal up until the point a fetus can survive outside the womb with medical help. Simply because there is a point where it becomes a simple matter of delivering vs. aborting.
Jazzari Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I think abortion should be legal up until the point a fetus can survive outside the womb with medical help. Simply because there is a point where it becomes a simple matter of delivering vs. aborting.And you think THIS is ok??? Seriously?? A premature infant's organs are not fully developed. The infant needs special care in a nursery until the organ systems have developed enough to sustain life without medical support. This may take weeks to months. A premature infant will have a lower birth weight than a full-term infant. Common physical signs of prematurity include: Body hair (lanugo)Abnormal breathing patterns (shallow, irregular pauses in breathing called apnea)Enlarged clitoris (female infant)Problems breathing due to immature lungs ([COLOR=#005988]neonatal respiratory distress syndrome[/COLOR]) or pneumoniaLower muscle tone and less activity than full-term infantsProblems feeding due to difficulty sucking or coordinating swallowing and breathingLess body fatSmall scrotum, smooth without ridges, and undescended testicles (male infant)Soft, flexible ear cartilageThin, smooth, shiny skin, which is often transparent (can see veins under skin) Prematurity can have long-term effects. Many premature infants have medical, developmental, or behavioral problems that continue into childhood or are permanent. The more premature an infant and the smaller the birth weight, the greater the risk of complications. However, it is impossible to predict a baby's long-term outcome based on gestational age or birth weight.
Art_Critic Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 It's the body of the baby and the baby's rights I am fighting for. With all due respect... You need to stick with fighting for the rights of babies that have your own DNA rather than fighting for a baby's rights that you have no business deciding or even judging what the parents do in their own lives concerning an unborn baby. When my wife was pregnant and my son was a fetus he certainly DID NOT need you fighting for his rights. You seem to think that you get to decide or you want the right to decide what two people who are pregnant get to decide on how to proceed with the pregnancy after the news they are pregnant. You also seem to be having trouble understanding that there are other people out there in the world other than you and they may or may not have the same opinion as you and they have a right to their opinion and well as how they live their lives. The laws in this country are very clear about abortion.. while their are sticking points to the point in the pregnancy that an abortion can happen the laws are there and in place... and you have to learn to live with that.
tinktronik Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 The "you" was general. Not specific to your experiences. Again, I'm talking about the rights of the baby. Out of curiousity, do you think that late term abortion should be legal? After all, by your definition it's still the mother's body. I find your fire for this topic encouraging. One should have fire for things they hold strongly. But I wonder at the focus. Your aim is to protect the "life" of the unborn. There are so many areas that this is achievable, for mothers who want their children too. There is a drug on the market that largely prevents miscarriage and early labor, yet because the cost of it has skyrocketed it is unavailable to many, many expectant mothers who very much need it and it's only because of it's expense. I ponder over the lack of outrage from the same community that so wants to protect and preserve the fetal life. The christian religious community is largely seen as being against abortion. Where is the christian community in regards to lobbying and our politicians in support of women and children at risk.
Jazzari Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 With all due respect... You need to stick with fighting for the rights of babies that have your own DNA rather than fighting for a baby's rights that you have no business deciding or even judging what the parents do in their own lives concerning an unborn baby. When my wife was pregnant and my son was a fetus he certainly DID NOT need you fighting for his rights. You seem to think that you get to decide or you want the right to decide what two people who are pregnant get to decide on how to proceed with the pregnancy after the news they are pregnant. You also seem to be having trouble understanding that there are other people out there in the world other than you and they may or may not have the same opinion as you and they have a right to their opinion and well as how they live their lives. The laws in this country are very clear about abortion.. while their are sticking points to the point in the pregnancy that an abortion can happen the laws are there and in place... and you have to learn to live with that. You seem to have trouble understanding that the baby is a real living human. Or more likely, its what you NEED to believe. And I can understand that. Uh...I have no problem living with the law. This is a discussion forum. I'm not out there throwing bombs at abortion facilities. And I've said repeatedly that while I don't personally agree with abortion, I wouldn't try to prevent someone who chose to do it immediately after learning of the pregnancy.
Jazzari Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I find your fire for this topic encouraging. One should have fire for things they hold strongly. But I wonder at the focus. Your aim is to protect the "life" of the unborn. There are so many areas that this is achievable, for mothers who want their children too. There is a drug on the market that largely prevents miscarriage and early labor, yet because the cost of it has skyrocketed it is unavailable to many, many expectant mothers who very much need it and it's only because of it's expense. I ponder over the lack of outrage from the same community that so wants to protect and preserve the fetal life. The christian religious community is largely seen as being against abortion. Where is the christian community in regards to lobbying and our politicians in support of women and children at risk.Don't know. I'm not Christian. I'm just enjoying the debate. The part that really facinates me, is when people think life begins and why they think that way. I'm not trying to change laws.
tinktronik Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Don't know. I'm not Christian. I'm just enjoying the debate. The part that really facinates me, is when people think life begins and why they think that way. I'm not trying to change laws. I'm fascinated by what leads you to believe that life begins at conception. This comes down to an ethical argument. I believe that the mother's choice is more important to a certain point that the rights of a grouping of cells. It's a shame you are not active in a positive, achievable way for people who want and need the help.
Jazzari Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 I'm fascinated by what leads you to believe that life begins at conception. This comes down to an ethical argument. I believe that the mother's choice is more important to a certain point that the rights of a grouping of cells. It's a shame you are not active in a positive, achievable way for people who want and need the help.Actually, I don't think life does start at conception. That's why I'm willing to agree with early abortion. Spontaneous abortion is a very common experience for women. It is estimated that between 25-50% of conceptions spontaneously abort. They just never know it. If life (soul enters the body) started at conception, then that's a pretty poor system. I can't quite see it. But I could be wrong which is why I don't agree with it for myself. But I certainly think it begins before birth and I think very early in the game. I just can't pinpoint that exact moment. I'm not interested in making a difference in this issue. When it comes to fighting for real, I'm more of an animal advocate.
mr.dream merchant Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Can't really provide what's moral or not on this situation so I will try to give you my opinion on how to approach the situation. Beforehand, it's always best to make sure the woman (the one you're about to have unprotected sex with) knows your stance on unwanted pregnancies. In hopes that she sees eye to eye with your stance (pro-abortion/prevention via other ways), talk about the options on the table. The Day After Pill, chemical abortion, even the surgical one (I don't recommend this :/ it's sad to see :<) . This doesn't really make it a 100% chance that she'll abort though, some women and men decide to keep the baby after everything is said and done, some women do so - even without consideration of the father's say. OP in your case, she may (or may not, not sure if the question is pertaining to you) be pregnant already. If that is the case, you can't flat out ask for her to get an abortion. It's a very touchy subject for most, and not really so for others, both being for reasons pertaining to each individual's preferences and so. I'd imagine it's a bit more emotional for women because they are carrying the child with them, even if it's just a ball of cells so to speak, they still imagine the newborn infant in their arms. Try approaching her with a talk about the options on the table. Which trimester is she in? Is she pro or against? Has she been very emotional or reserved more so than usual lately? These are all things to consider. One thing I do not suggest is buying into the opinion that you don't have any say in this situation because you're not carrying the baby. You could be the father of this child, and that makes you just as important as the possible mother. Your voice should be given an equal amount of consideration as you give hers. Don't ask for an abortion, it'll just seem heartless and cold to her, and she may decide to keep the baby and end things with you. Now you've got a child you can only see on certain days, and have to pay child support for. Not good :/. SPEAK to her about abortion, let her know where you stand on it, see where she stands - try to find a common ground. I can't stress this enough, but you are not a coward nor a murderer for this. Unwanted pregnancies happen all the time. It's understandable if the couple would rather wait until they get a bit more settled in and prepared for a child rather than "wing it".
ChessPieceFace Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I think men should have rights with respect to conception. If you want to exercise your rights, don't get her pregnant in the first place. When it comes to pregnancy, it's the woman's call. Unless she was raped, they both consented and accepted the risk. Really the epidemic of abortions is disgusting and demonstrates what a terrible, amoral, callous and selfish culture we live in. In some states it's something like more than half of pregnancies aborted. I really don't care what your faith or religion is, anyone who supports that is just wrong, and is basically a murderous sociopath. That describes the majority of the western population. There's no defense of the magnitude of the slaughter of unborn humans that's going on. None.
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