stormy_weathers Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I've been lurking for a while reading & thought I might as well put my question out there to satisfy my own curiosity. If a man & woman are married for 20+ multiple years. He decides that he doesn't care if his wife sees other men, actually encourages it - with the rules being: she must tell him what happens during her encounters. Marriage is on the rocks so wife, for fear that the marriage might be failing & this may save it complies to her husbands wishes. She decides that this is kind of fun. She, over the course of about a year has met 2 men on different occasions for fun. These two men are also friends of her husband. Husband knows about the encounters, 2 men don't know he knows. Wife, after about a year of this grows tired of the game of it. She ends up meeting a new man online & stops even considering the other 2. She sees this new man in secret. Decides that her husband had his fun for a year with her stories, now it's her turn to just have someone, just for her. After about a year the husband finds out about this man. He doesn't become angry, afterall, it was his idea in the beginning. What he is upset about is that she kept this a secret. He asks what I would assume are normal questions that one would guess after finding something like this out. Satisfied with the answers & that the wife won't see this new man in secret anymore they go on with thier life. This is a brief readers digest version of the events, there is more to the story but this will at least answer the initial question. Is this considered an affair?
UnsureinSeattle Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Yep. Went outside of the established boundries.
EyesWideOpen Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I think once you start incorporating the deceit/hiding factor...then it definitely becomes an affair.
ladydesigner Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I think once you start incorporating the deceit/hiding factor...then it definitely becomes an affair. Agree it is the deceit and hiding that makes it an affair. Even an open M has its boundaries.
Author stormy_weathers Posted April 20, 2011 Author Posted April 20, 2011 Ok - so you all think this would be considered an affair. I don't look at it as an affair in the definition here. "Everything Is Secret" Husband knew that the wife was hanging around with a guy that she'd met online. Husband was traveling & figured 'well, at least she has something to do while I'm away.' They are empty nesters therefore, no kids at home to shuffle around in the evenings. She told husband they were just friends. Which they were in the beginning. The other guy was having some marital issues so they would spend hours chatting about this. Just hanging out & having a few drinks every now & then while husband was away on business. Still an affair?
Owl Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Yep...she didn't tell the H...deliberately. Here's a further thought for you...is she becoming emotionally attached to this OM? My guess is that her H was ok with her physical interactions with others within the limits he set...but wasn't ok with the idea of this going emotional.
Author stormy_weathers Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 So basically what I'm hearing is that it's just the lying that constitutes an affair.
kevinm1019 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I've been lurking for a while reading & thought I might as well put my question out there to satisfy my own curiosity. If a man & woman are married for 20+ multiple years. He decides that he doesn't care if his wife sees other men, actually encourages it - with the rules being: she must tell him what happens during her encounters. Marriage is on the rocks so wife, for fear that the marriage might be failing & this may save it complies to her husbands wishes. She decides that this is kind of fun. She, over the course of about a year has met 2 men on different occasions for fun. These two men are also friends of her husband. Husband knows about the encounters, 2 men don't know he knows. Wife, after about a year of this grows tired of the game of it. She ends up meeting a new man online & stops even considering the other 2. She sees this new man in secret. Decides that her husband had his fun for a year with her stories, now it's her turn to just have someone, just for her. After about a year the husband finds out about this man. He doesn't become angry, afterall, it was his idea in the beginning. What he is upset about is that she kept this a secret. He asks what I would assume are normal questions that one would guess after finding something like this out. Satisfied with the answers & that the wife won't see this new man in secret anymore they go on with thier life. This is a brief readers digest version of the events, there is more to the story but this will at least answer the initial question. Is this considered an affair? Think about this... if the husband and wife agreed to have an open relationship and the wife decides to become deceitful or secretive... then the boundaries have been broken. An affair is developing an emotional or physical desire/attachment/etc with someone outside of your relationship with or without your significant other's knowledge.
Author stormy_weathers Posted April 21, 2011 Author Posted April 21, 2011 But the difference here is that the husband wasn't upset about the affair itsself. What he had his moment of upsetness about was that he didn't get to share in her experience. Know the dirty little details.
imagine Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I'm sorry. I cannot help but think that encouraging adultery is an abuse of marriage. It demeans the woman and turns her into a whore. Were I the woman I would suggest divorce. Who would want to live with this man anyway. If she agreed, she is a whore and has lied to her marriage vows, hence further discussion is irrelevant. In my world your word is your bond.
wicked_angelbaby Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I've been lurking for a while reading & thought I might as well put my question out there to satisfy my own curiosity. If a man & woman are married for 20+ multiple years. He decides that he doesn't care if his wife sees other men, actually encourages it - with the rules being: she must tell him what happens during her encounters. Marriage is on the rocks so wife, for fear that the marriage might be failing & this may save it complies to her husbands wishes. She decides that this is kind of fun. She, over the course of about a year has met 2 men on different occasions for fun. These two men are also friends of her husband. Husband knows about the encounters, 2 men don't know he knows. Wife, after about a year of this grows tired of the game of it. She ends up meeting a new man online & stops even considering the other 2. She sees this new man in secret. Decides that her husband had his fun for a year with her stories, now it's her turn to just have someone, just for her. After about a year the husband finds out about this man. He doesn't become angry, afterall, it was his idea in the beginning. What he is upset about is that she kept this a secret. He asks what I would assume are normal questions that one would guess after finding something like this out. Satisfied with the answers & that the wife won't see this new man in secret anymore they go on with thier life. This is a brief readers digest version of the events, there is more to the story but this will at least answer the initial question. Is this considered an affair? well if it is a secret I guess sooo. But you opened a can of worms...
wicked_angelbaby Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Agree it is the deceit and hiding that makes it an affair. Even an open M has its boundaries. an open marriage has boundaries is contradictory....
wicked_angelbaby Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
wicked_angelbaby Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I'm sorry. I cannot help but think that encouraging adultery is an abuse of marriage. It demeans the woman and turns her into a whore. Were I the woman I would suggest divorce. Who would want to live with this man anyway. If she agreed, she is a whore and has lied to her marriage vows, hence further discussion is irrelevant. In my world your word is your bond. oh so the women is a whore, and what that of the man? I hate double standards.
Woman In Blue Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 So basically what I'm hearing is that it's just the lying that constitutes an affair. Aside from the fact that her husband obviously has a cuckold fantasy going, the wife only met his two friends for occasional sex and nothing else. I wonder how long it would have been before the husband started having wifey fool around in their bedroom while he hid in the closet and watched? Blech. I'm also not surprised to learn that the two idiots she had sex with are BOTH also friends of the husband - and both of them totally disrespected the husband by having what they thought was secret sex behind his back with his wife. I guess a stiff d*ck has no conscience, does it? Anyway, the rules of their one-sided 'open marriage' constituted that the wife could have occasional sex with others outside the confines of marriage, as long as she told her husband (no doubt because he wanted to use it for spank material). She broke the rules of their agreement when she pursued some married guy online and decided this little 'relationship' was going to be all about her. She carried it on, in secret, for a year before her husband found out. The other guy was having some marital issues so they would spend hours chatting about this. Why do men always say this bullsh*t? If they're having "marital troubles," then maybe they should get their pitiful asses to a therapist, NOT seek out strange women on the internet for webcam 'chats.' Losers. Anyway, it's not so much the secrecy and lying that makes it an 'affair,' it's the fact that she had an ongoing attachment to this married man for a YEAR that makes it an affair. The other two guys she had sex with were JUST that - play partners. This guy was up on another level.
TMCM Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Why do men always say this bullsh*t? If they're having "marital troubles," then maybe they should get their pitiful asses to a therapist, NOT seek out strange women on the internet for webcam 'chats.' Losers. Your comments can be equally applied to the woman in question. Anyway, it's not so much the secrecy and lying that makes it an 'affair,' it's the fact that she had an ongoing attachment to this married man for a YEAR that makes it an affair. The other two guys she had sex with were JUST that - play partners. This guy was up on another level. I beg to differ because affairs are born in - and thrive on - secrecy and lying. The cheater wants the best of both worlds and knows that it is not in his/her best interest to reveal to his/her spouse that he/she is having an affair because once that is done, the betrayed spouse can pull the plug on the marriage. No doubt about, she cheated.
ver13 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 For some people an open marriage works out I guess as long as they stay commited to the primary person in it. I find this hard to believe since most people put some type of emotional attachment into sex. I mean if the didn't they would just use escorts, it's emotion free since it's all about the $$$. The fact the the "H" want's his friends to be the one's to help him debase his wife is distruding. As for the "W" if she thinks that the "OM" truly has her best interest in mind then she can do the right thing and leave her"M". Why split hairs over what it is or what it isn't in the end it's not a "M" whatsoever. Neither party is interested in re-establishing intimacy or maintaining boundaries, so why stay there?
drifter777 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 It seems as though the two of you had an arrangement that worked for both of you. Your husband encouraged you to have sex with other men as long as you filled him in on the raunchy details. You said you enjoyed it for a year or so but then wanted to be with another man and keep the details from your husband and, when he found out about it, he was upset that you didn't keep your part of the bargain. Why did you "withhold" the details from your husband when you knew that's how he gets his kicks? When you did that you violated the basic foundation that your marriage had become built on and is a clear sign that something is fundamentally wrong with your relationship. Most of us on this forum are in monogamous marriages so if our spouse sleeps with another person it is the ultimate betrayal. I think this would be considered a "typical" definition of infidelity. However, there are all kinds of people and many of them don't have a "typical" relationship and define their sexual intimacy differently. I'm not one of those people, but I can accept that there are probably many marriage arrangements that I would find intolerable that work just fine for others. On this forum we label the act of a spouse having sex with an other person infidelity or an "affair". According to the groundwork you and your husband agreed to, when you withheld the details of your sexual encounters with this other man you were unfaithful and this act would qualify as an affair.
danmo Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I have to agree with a lot of what’s been said. You and your husband had an agreement and that’s great two adults that love each other can do this type of thing. Question: did it make you closer? Did it put a spark in your relationship?[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] Your husband I’m sure absolutely loved it, he got what he wanted and you had fun doing it with his buddies for him and everything was good. My wife and I do a very similar thing and it has absolutely worked for us. As has been said, when you didn’t come clean is where the trust was broken and then it became an affair. The real question is “why” it was a secret. If my wife did this to me it would be hurtful because it would send a message that she had an affair of the heart, rather then just great sex. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Now it could be that the OM made you promise to not say anything? Still so, that would mean your relationship is at least equal to the relationship you have with your husband. Maybe what you’re saying is that you did it because you wanted to experience the thrill of having the “real deal”. Meaning, a secret affair and that is where your ‘kick’ was coming from. In my mind this would be fine, but now you need to assure your husband that’s all it was and that he is still the one you love. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I am sure you have become attached to your boyfriend as a lover but that is where it should end. If not then you no longer have an honest relationship with your husband. My wife and I have done this same thing going on 7 years and I have to say it really works for us. She is very selective and will normally stay with the same guy for a year or so. She is always honest with the OM about our arrangement and all except for one time it’s been great. This one time the guy started to fall for her and she ended it right then. We are extremely devoted to one another much more then a lot of monogamous couples who basically have no love life. So the arrangement can be absolutely awesome but as people have indicated there must be honesty and boundaries for it to work.[/sIZE][/FONT]
Author stormy_weathers Posted April 25, 2011 Author Posted April 25, 2011 I get what you're all saying. The secret part was 'wrong'. The OM knew of the arrangement that my husband & I had previously. Didn't matter to him. He'd had an affair 10 years prior. I felt at the time that my marriage had come to a boring part. Everyone goes thru it. My husbands way of dealing with this was to have the modified open marriage. It really was fine with me, at first. 2 catastrophic things happened in that time & that's why I put a halt to it. Prior to these things happening I didn't feel like I could put the breaks on this behavior for fear the marriage might begin to fall apart. The reason for the secret was simple. ME. This was my time. I always had felt uncomfortable sharing the details with my husband anyway. With a new man, I didn't have to nor did I want to.
danmo Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Ok that makes sense why you would feel that way. It tells me also that your marriage may be in real trouble. Answer this.. How would you feel if your husband did the same to you? Would it be hurtful? and why? If it would not, then it would seem to me you just want another man and now it's emotional. It's about you only not you and your husband. Maybe you don't want to be married, maybe you do but need a break to figure it out? But my opinion is yes it is an affair if you keep it from your husband
drifter777 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I get what you're all saying. The secret part was 'wrong'. The OM knew of the arrangement that my husband & I had previously. Didn't matter to him. He'd had an affair 10 years prior. I felt at the time that my marriage had come to a boring part. Everyone goes thru it. My husbands way of dealing with this was to have the modified open marriage. It really was fine with me, at first. 2 catastrophic things happened in that time & that's why I put a halt to it. Prior to these things happening I didn't feel like I could put the breaks on this behavior for fear the marriage might begin to fall apart. The reason for the secret was simple. ME. This was my time. I always had felt uncomfortable sharing the details with my husband anyway. With a new man, I didn't have to nor did I want to. I'm curious, are you looking for answers or advice? What are you looking for on this forum?
Author stormy_weathers Posted April 26, 2011 Author Posted April 26, 2011 I'm curious, are you looking for answers or advice? What are you looking for on this forum? Well I thought the title of the thread pretty much said what I wanted to know.
danmo Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 I agree Stormy it did indeed, not sure why you were asked the question. I hope you have your answer. You indicated initially that you may have other questions as well and I'd like to encourage you to ask them. There are some people who may look down on your situation but I want you to know there are others who understand where you are coming from and in fact can relate and even offer advice if you would want.
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