The hate

[betterdeal]

I feel absolute hatred towards my ex right now. It feels liberating to let this emotion come to the surface. I've said "I hate you" to two people in my life, and she's the third person I've felt it for.

 

I don't intend to do anything with it, other than to let it out and never, ever give her one more iota of my empathy, love, understanding, patience, affection, trust, belief, happiness. It was in large part down to her social engineering attempts that I nearly died last year. I feel vilified in my hatred. I'm calm, clear headed, just finished yoga an hour or two ago and had a nice curry.

 

I hate that she's so sensitive that any negative feedback is likely to drive her back to a psychotic state at best and suicide at worst. I want to throw all her aggression right back at her, so she can look in the mirror and see what I had to deal with. But she has it all wrapped up - she dishes out the anger, but any directed at her and she'll go insane or kill herself.

 

It's this, above everything, that fills me with hatred for her. The double standards.

 

I sincerely hope to never see her again and to find another way to get this cancer out of me.

[TaraMaiden]

The opposite to Love, is NOT hate.

The opposite to Love, is indiffernece.

 

Hate is merely the flip-side of the Love-coin.

 

If you hate someone, you hold them as closely to you, in your heart and mind, as if you loved them with all your heart and mind.

 

This is also something you have to work through.

 

Ultimately, hate is a weapon that cuts you first.

[betterdeal]

I disagree. Hate is a tool to protect you from extremely abusive people who harm you with impunity by virtue of their position. The first person I hated was a teacher who bullied me, hit me, emotionally abused me, and lied to my parents sufficiently well enough to convince them he was innocent. I felt no love for him. I felt love for me.

[betterdeal]

I think my decision to move town in solidifying. I gave my notice in and finish my job in a month. I've done a lot of healing in the past year and resolved lots of unfinished business. I've learnt to be true to myself and express my feelings. I've stopped turning to drink, drugs, food for comfort. I've addressed issues with my family. I've got in control of my spending. Fixed two major physical injuries.

 

I am so glad that this time that I have been in and left a dysfunctional relationship that I had better friends, who could see the misery the relationship was causing me, and, rather than circling like wolves around the wounded as my previous friends did, these ones saw her for what she was. A deeply unstable and harmful person. It's meant an awful lot to have had those people bear witness and support me.

 

I've dealt with so many issues that were the foundations of many of the triggers that made me unstable. I've even dealt with most of the guilt and sorrow. I've always had problems expressing anger, fear and hatred. I guess that right now, these are the emotions I have spent least time processing and now is the time to do that.

 

Someone who deliberately sets out to harm me or my family cannot be loved by me. I dread to think what affect my death would have had on my nephews and nieces. It is this, the trauma it would cause these innocents, that I fear most. And it is her, with her successful efforts to hurt me, done maliciously and with intent, so much so that it pushed me over the edge and thus led to my attempt to kill myself, that threatened to cause that trauma to them.

 

I'm glad I've saved it for now, after having got over the infatuation, the guilt, the sorrow, the self-hatred, and the physical pain I was in, because now I won't act on it. I won't let it hurt another person. I took on a load of her pain and I'm getting rid of this toxic waste safely.

 

I hope she doesn't do this to another man. I wasn't the first, but I hope I am the last.

 

Moving town will be a big relief, even if it is scary and full of unknowns. I shall move when I have processed this hatred, pain, fear, so as not to carry it with me to whatever else life as in store for me.

Edited April 14, 2011 by betterdeal

[betterdeal]

I love this song and video. Says it all, really.

 

[betterdeal]

I've just had a really good night's sleep. I think that these posts helped with that. By letting out the anger, the hate, the fear, putting it in writing, in a pseudo-public way (very public writing, but not linked to me in real life too easily), I feel like I've processed it. I've let myself feel those feelings, and now I feel satisfied to have been heard, I can let them go.

 

I have balance.

[smudge21]

Not really had the hate for the current ex (we started as friends and parted as friends) but I did for a previous one a long time ago. Her attitude was terrible and she knew how I felt yet used that against me. I look back and can see myself acting like a puppy dog, following her around and kissing her a**! Makes me sick to think about it, so I can totally understand your anger there. My anger really drove out the feelings of love, forced them out. I can still remember hearing how she'd got back with a long term ex, they'd got a house together, then she'd got pregnant by a one night stand so he'd kicked her out. That made me feel good (don't judge, at the time I was full of hate and besides, she brought it on herself). About a year later we met up for a drink (just by accident really). It was fine but after an hour I got up to leave and she offered me her phone number, clearly thinking we were friends again. What she didn't know was during that whole hour, all I could recall was the way she'd treated me. I wasn't angry anymore, nor did I hate her, but I knew I definitely had no interest in spending anymore time with her. I declined the number and left... it felt good. Like the final curtain to a bad show.

[betterdeal]

Thanks for sharing that, and reading my posts. Definitely no judgment on how you felt. I say in my signature that all feelings are real, after all, and they have their reasons. It's what we do with those feelings that makes the difference.

 

It's funny, because right now when I start to recall the start of a troublesome scenario it just dissipates, like a puff of steam disappearing into thin air. I don't get to the crunch point, the real killer moment. I barely get 3 seconds into it. My inner child is expelling the last remnants of bad feelings from then and my inner adult is saying, it's fine, let it out, now where are the tea bags, I could do with a brew.

 

Two months of proper NC (changed my phone number two months ago) later and I feel so much cleaner than I was then.

[weedsandposies]

The opposite to Love, is NOT hate.

The opposite to Love, is indiffernece.

 

Hate is merely the flip-side of the Love-coin.

 

If you hate someone, you hold them as closely to you, in your heart and mind, as if you loved them with all your heart and mind.

 

This is also something you have to work through.

 

Ultimately, hate is a weapon that cuts you first.

 

I agree with this. And I think the purpose of NC, including not even thinking of the other person, is to let go of all emotion. To feel nothing and become totally indifferent.

 

Except don't know how someone can accomplish this? I would think hating someone or at least remembering the things you hated about the person or how he treated you would help you keep NC.

[betterdeal]

Or she.

 

I figure accepting the feelings is the step just before letting them go. I feel as if I was very unstable - in two minds with the subconscious wanting to express and the rational conscious suppressing it. I was thinking up nasty things but holding that back, because I don't like to hurt anyone.

 

Bear in mind she has been involuntarily hospitalised for mental illness and tried to commit suicide in her past, and is incredibly, incredibly sensitive, and still very unstable, it is easy to see that a few harsh words may well lead to real harm.

 

As hatred is such a furious anger, one that will unleash harsh "truths" in order to defend myself from further harm, I didn't want to let it out until I felt it was safe to do so as I am aware it may well lead to her causing herself real harm.

 

I feel relieved to have let it out. I am more at peace with myself. I do still fear seeing her, so it's not all gone, but I am more at peace.

[WellLetsSee]

Hmm hmm hmm, I have just had a fast scan through this thread - I will re-read it later when I can better focus.

 

There are just two things on my heart to say right now:

 

1. Yes - big congrats for embracing your anger. To me personally anger as a feeling only is really beautiful. I am not talking about the part where people act out their anger and do not take responsibility for their needs. But I really appreciate my feeling of anger as such - even though it is quite unpleasant at times. You know when body and soul scream: "No this is not working for me. I do not want that in my life. It is bad for me. And I REALLY dont want that and I instead want this and I will do everything I possibly can to get it." I find that really beautiful. For example I love children's tantrums - even though it can wrack my nerves.

 

Hmm, have you ever heard of non-violent-communication by Rosenberg? They have an approach to anger that I dearly appreciate. There, Anger is regarded as a symptom of unmet needs that you are not fully connected with. So the approach to anger is - not to act it out, but not to surpress it either, but to listen to it very hard. And to hear the beautiful needs of yours that lie beneath that anger.

 

So for example in your case ... listening to your anger and hatred ... I hear something like you really really wish to be heard with what you have been going through and that you feel extremely helpless and desperate since you do not see any way how to get her to listen to you. Something like that? You know, something like finding a way that you can be sure that she truely and fully understood what horror it ment for you to be in this relationship with her? I dont know and maybe there is even also the idea that if you wont manage to make her hear you, that you might never be able to really let go off the relationship?

 

... Do you get the concept? Like in the other thread when I said, that people with Borderline do have no compassionate love... When I try really listening to what I said there ... I hear something like :

... Maybe I really, really want to receive compassionate love? And maybe also I want my compassionate love to be received and appreciated? And maybe I feel helpless since I so much wish there was a way for me to contribute to the healing of my father so that once in his life he might be able to experience what it actually means to love?

 

Well this is the idea.

 

Check it out - if you are not familiar with Nonviolent Communication already. http://www.cnvc.org

 

2. The second thing is that came to my mind - in case you find the whole anger feeling thing liberating - you might want to check out this site.

http://www.sharischreiber.com/articles.html. There is a lot stuff for people who love or have loved BPs. And the way she writes definitely helps to feel your anger.

[orangelady]

I disagree. Hate is a tool to protect you from extremely abusive people who harm you with impunity by virtue of their position. The first person I hated was a teacher who bullied me, hit me, emotionally abused me, and lied to my parents sufficiently well enough to convince them he was innocent. I felt no love for him. I felt love for me.

 

 

Tell me something, is hate poison? Like how does it liberate you? Because at times I feel hate towards certain people and I don't know what to do with it. I think that having hate towards them will help me have lesser expectations from them and help me to not think that I need their acceptance.

[TaraMaiden]

Didn't somebody say that hatred is like buying poison for somebody then drinking it yourself....? or was that resentment?

It might amount to the same thing.....

I rarely hear people say they 'resent' something/someone... It's most likely that people will use the word 'hate'....

 

Hatred is like throwing a burning coal at somebody - you might even miss, but guarantee you burn yourself, first.

Hatred is not a constructive emotion upon which to build your self-esteem.

 

You (one) may think that hatred is a healthy energy to focus on, but whatever you put energy into, will grow.

Better to cultivate indifference, and acceptance.

These two qualities help you rise above things and develop equanimity.

[betterdeal]

WellLetsSee, thanks for that, I'll certainly give those resources a read-through. I found (past tense) it liberating to feel the anger, the hatred, and yes, it was very much because of the impossible situation of not being able to tell her my side of the story lest she did some real harm as a result of hearing something that may upset her. You put it very well!

 

Now don't get the wrong impression, I was far from innocent and did lots of hurtful things, but most were unintentional and if everything was summed up, I was almost certainly the less harmful of the two of us and certainly the less deliberately harmful.

 

Not being able to stand my ground verbally left me completely exposed. I bottled up the feelings. Hatred or furious anger have always been the hardest feelings for me to deal with, but being able to have them, accept them, and let them go means I am much happier, more balanced, more me. I sleep better since starting this thread. I feel better. I am much more present. I am more confident. I am much happier. And I don't believe I have hurt anyone in doing this.

 

As for your father, I feel for you. My parents are very affectionate and loving, so I can't say I have the same experience as you. My parents do have their problems (both were sexually abused as children, amongst other traumas), and having confronted them with the things they did that hurt me, I have offered to pay for counselling for them, but my mother said it would be too painful for her. They have found their way to deal with it. I feel that since I have resolved my problems with respect to them (the main problem was not being able to say "that hurt" to them) that I now have that companionable love for them that you speak of, and not the negative feelings any more. I don't know if that will work for you, but it's worth considering what will make you stable and authentic in your relationship with your father, and that might be what you're looking for?

 

orangelady hate, in my opinion, is intensified anger, and anger is a secondary emotion that is usually preceded by fear. Whilst you have anger or hatred inside you, it helps to let go of it. The first step in letting go is accepting it is there. The next is to experience it. The way to avoid it in the future is to notice the fear and work on the causes of that fear, both internal and external causes. In most cases, the fear is unfounded so the root cause is something internal.

 

TaraMaiden I think we may be talking at cross purposes with respect to what I am working to achieve. I am working to be in a happy state, and part of that is letting go of the anger, the hatred, the fear, the guilt and so on. And, in turn, in order to let go I need to feel and express those feelings. I have expressed the harshest anger - the hatred - here, by writing the opening post, and felt the feeling.

 

Ever play a sport, do yoga, meditate, even drink and reach a state of purely reflexive thinking, where you get "in the zone"? Where you aren't using words to maintain your existence. Where you are just being? That's where I needed to be to let these feelings out.

 

I don't believe any emotion is right or wrong, they just are, although they may be arrived at by miscomprehesion. How we deal with them is key to happiness. And if we hold onto or suppress any of them, be that hate, love, fear, guilt, what have you, we do ourselves and others harm.

 

We do have times when suppressing them is the best course of action to take, but if we find a safe and stable place in which to let them out, and we can do so in non-destructive ways, doing so here can get us to or nearer to a state of indifference or gentle love.

 

As WellLetsSee points out, some people have problems attaining gentle affection or companionable love, and may never experience it in their lives, but I do believe that they might, one day.

 

It is that gentle affection, that respect and liking combined without expectation, that makes it possible for exes to become friends after a break up. I don't know if this ex will be one of those, but I do know one or two exes that I am friends with now, and there are one or two I don't know now, so it all depends on the people involved.

Edited April 17, 2011 by betterdeal

[PelicanPete]

 

I don't believe any emotion is right or wrong, they just are, although they may be arrived at by miscomprehesion. How we deal with them is key to happiness. And if we hold onto or suppress any of them, be that hate, love, fear, guilt, what have you, we do ourselves and others harm.

 

 

 

Im proud of you betterdeal, you're really changing your life for the better.

 

I've always believed that as well. Emotions are neutral, you apply meaning to them. We personify our emotions whether it be culture or mindset.

 

You can burn yourself with hatred, but I don't really see how you can painlessly remove hatred. he doesn't have to aim it at anyone, even if it doesn't hit anyone at least he's getting rid of it, hes not holding onto it anymore.

 

Perhaps you are really angry at yourself, for how you handled the situations with your ex and the teacher. You have always been able to consume with what life throws your way, but those lasting memories leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

They could have made you feel very inept and useless, but the first step with dealing with anger is that we are not all powerful. We are human. Not even a molecule in this universe. Perhaps looking for the approval of those people made you feel never good enough, even though they were the ones with wrong doing.

 

Angry for how those situations unfolded out of your control, making you feel powerless. Therefore you fear the people that were the harbingers, which causes hatred towards them for putting you through it. Hopefully I am on the right track. I don't believe they deserved to do that to you, but I do believe they have made you stronger.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better than before. Our experience influences the people we are today. I've had some horrible times, but I don't regret them, I don't hate them either. They have changed me into who I am today, and for that I am grateful it happened.

[Feelin Frisky]

betterdeal, it sounds like you may have gotten involved with someone with a real personality disorder and the experience has poisoned you. This happened to me and in my case it was so deeply unsettling that I needed help to recover. I can't say I hate her, I just hate my poor fortune and my choices to keep believing that there was a chance with her. There wasn't--the problem was that because she had a personality disorder where she seemed to have more than on identity, she could not learn from any of our bad experiences and would never accept responsibility for making things go in those wrong directions. The reason I'm brining this up is that when sane people are exposed to people with complexes that make no sense it becomes our logic and reason that creates the problem in us--these other folk defy the same logic. I didn't know what to tell myself after my experience but I knew I was driving others around me by trying to convey what I was dealing with. I had to get help to let it all go. Good luck and I hope you don't keep any hate in your heart.

[betterdeal]

Thanks, Pete. I certainly was angry at myself, amongst other things, but I have always had problems accepting having anger at people I love or care about. That goes back to my childhood and is another story. That said, I have advanced a lot in this regard. And by accepting its existence, and then accepting it, I have not only been able to let it go, but have also been able to notice the things that lead to anger and manage them better. Some times that means avoidance; others it means confronting the cause. We cannot be self-aware if we deny the existence of any feeling we have because feelings are what make the inner self real.

Edited April 17, 2011 by betterdeal

[starryeyed12]

We cannot be self-aware if we deny the existence of any feeling we have because feelings are what make the inner self real.

 

In my opinion, hatred is a state that comes as you allow your emotions to defile and strangle you.

 

When you get to a state where you feel hatred, you have already heard your inner voice and you have already accepted it as what you choose to feel about a situation or person.

 

To be liberated from that state, I think you also have to apply logic and understanding. In this case, I think you are freeing from your hatred because yes, you vented out some of that emotion in a safe way, it was heard and even validated by people on this site, and equally important, you applied reason and understanding--of yourself, the situation, the people involved, and the human condition in general.

 

I think people can hang on to a feeling like hatred for so long, even as it ravages their lives, because using logic and understanding when wrestling with a powerful emotion is very difficult --especially when the other party involved is not applying any. It involves stepping outside of yourself and seeing the bigger picture. To do so involves fighting against the urge to remain one sided and exposing yourself as flawed and a contributor to your pain as well. It doesn't justify people's actions or behaviors, but it allows a new perspective. Sometimes that new perspective leads us down a path of forgiveness, sometimes just inner peace.

 

Logic and understanding are the powers that can hold their own against the power of our feelings and emotions. Finding a balance between the two is the ultimate goal.

[betterdeal]

Hmm. I blamed myself from the start. That was a flaw of mine to blame me and not accept anger towards the other party's in conflicts as being valid. Part of self-hatred was, for me, denying the hurt and pain caused by others as being their responsibility. Whichever direction it is pointed in, I think it needs to be released. If that's into a punch-bag or a post on the Internet, that's non-destructive.

[starryeyed12]

Yes, I agree. You need to have a safe and healthy outlet for such emotions. I believe too that the venting of bottled up emotion isn't the cure all for moving past emotions as powerful and rooted as hatred, or even the flip side, love, for that matter. We can not allow ourselves to be ruled and controlled solely by our emotions. Thats when things can go so wrong. At some point we need to pull back from the feelings and reflect. Stop just doing and feeling our way through life, but to start thinking critically and asking why? w/What am I doing? How did I get to this place? What needs to be done to get to a healthier state? We have to temper emotion with logic and understanding--which you seem to be doing a great job of at this time. Your reflections on yourself and your ex and mental illness, abuse, and everything you've talked about is part of that reasoning side of you. Stepping out of yourself to see you and others in a different light fueled by cold facts, not just red hot emotions. It's the balancing force.

[TaraMaiden]

TaraMaiden I think we may be talking at cross purposes with respect to what I am working to achieve.

 

Yes I see that perhaps we are...

 

I am working to be in a happy state, and part of that is letting go of the anger, the hatred, the fear, the guilt and so on. And, in turn, in order to let go I need to feel and express those feelings. I have expressed the harshest anger - the hatred - here, by writing the opening post, and felt the feeling.

 

Ever play a sport, do yoga, meditate, even drink and reach a state of purely reflexive thinking, where you get "in the zone"? Where you aren't using words to maintain your existence. Where you are just being? That's where I needed to be to let these feelings out.

 

I don't believe any emotion is right or wrong, they just are, although they may be arrived at by miscomprehesion. How we deal with them is key to happiness. And if we hold onto or suppress any of them, be that hate, love, fear, guilt, what have you, we do ourselves and others harm.

 

We do have times when suppressing them is the best course of action to take, but if we find a safe and stable place in which to let them out, and we can do so in non-destructive ways, doing so here can get us to or nearer to a state of indifference or gentle love.

 

Gotcha.

Yeah, can't argue with that.

[betterdeal]

starryeyed12 I agree - when we find ways to use both our conscious (logical) mind and subconscious (feeling) mind together in compliment to each other, we reach the best state available to us. My ex is a lot more impulsive that I was when we were together. I used to be just as impulsive but terribly unhappy and lost at the same time. I reversed the polarity and regulated my emotions far too much for about a decade. But I feel now that I am closer to midway between the two now, more able to use reason to find a good course of action, and to express more feelings at the time they occur, when it's okay to do so.

 

My therapist once said to me, when I was relating a story about what I hadn't said to someone, that what matters is what we say to ourselves, and it's very true. So long as I have a good relationship with me, my life gets better.

 

Thanks for all your input, everyone.

[betterdeal]

WellLetsSee

 

I tried to send this to you as a PM, but no can do.

 

I found these books really useful in helping me to recover from the trauma of abusive relationships with a BPD sufferer and my own disordered personality - thought you might find them interesting too!

 

The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing

 

Lost in the Mirror: An Inside Look at Borderline Personality Disorder

 

I can honestly say I have grown 20 times more as a person in the past year than I had in the previous 20 or so. At 37, I finally "get it" with regard to life, love and me.

 

It'd be good to hear how you're doing. I don't know much of you're story, but if you want to sound out things, I'm happy to listen

[betterdeal]

Yeah, can't argue with that.

 

Hurrah! An amicable outcome

[betterdeal]

And this looks like a promising resource for those involved with BPD

 

http://www.bpdrecovery.com/HomePage