Disillusioned Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Are you in a sexual hiatus, or are you becoming like one of these guys http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/09/the-grass-eating-boys-of-japan/ ? What's that all about? I don't want sex because I don't need it. I'm more concerned with keeping the bills paid. BTW if those guys in Japan don't want to let themselves be sexually manipulated by women, I say more power to them and their strike.
Scottdmw Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Do you know many people who got married and started a family for the first time after age 30? Do you even know many single (desirable) people over 30 at all? I mean think about how many really cool single people over 30 (but under 45) you know. I think some people would say if they were really desirable, they wouldn’t be single, right? (I know that includes myself and I know what’s wrong with me—I stayed too long in the wrong relationships—several for around 4 years, which I’m now kicking myself for.) I want to get married and have a family, but I don’t even date! I really want to start dating, but I’m not sure where to start. I haven’t met a single man my age in I can’t tell you when. I would feel better if I met single men, but it just didn’t work out, rather than never meeting them at all. (I seem to get hit on by men who aren’t single, but obviously that’s not going to work.) Iris, The most important thing you need to do is make sure you are in fact meeting appropriate men. I would suggest you start here: http://www.meetup.com/ They have all kinds of interest groups where you will meet single people interested in getting out and doing things. If not there, find something similar. The key is that at least a couple times a week you need to be somewhere where you're meeting men. Once you're there forget about meeting anyone and just have fun, but make sure you are at least THERE Best of luck.
irc333 Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 IT was the opposite for me, at least in a suburban area, a good percentage of people over 25 (maybe even younger) are married. I am 32 and not yet married. 95% of my friends are in their 30's and about 80% of them are single.
allina Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Most of my friends are in their late 20s and early thirties and hardly any are married. Hubby and I got married last year at 27/30 and we were one of the first ones. We have a couple weddings coming up this summer but the majority of people in our age group are not married/engaged. There is nothing unusual about being over 30 and single, it's actually quite normal. Who gets married before 30? YIKES!!! That should be illegal. :rolleyes:
tigressA Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 IT was the opposite for me, at least in a suburban area, a good percentage of people over 25 (maybe even younger) are married. This is how it is for me. Many of my friends are engaged/married, some with kids. I'm 24 and none of them are older than me. I was born and raised in a small town, though. You see 30+ singles as the norm when you're in a metro area.
Scottdmw Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Disillusioned, you're not getting the purpose of Elastica. She probably has met many men who are of high quality, but their lack of interest in 'commitment' sent her into cognitive dissonance. Many women are like that, as you've noticed much of that cognitive dissonance in men. But whereas in men, the cognitive dissonance reveals itself in the shape of the belief that most guys aren't getting sex, in the women with the cognitive dissonance, it takes the shape of 'the majority of men who are in their 30's and not married, are losers/impotent/momma's boys/can't deal with a real woman/have low self-esteem/are ugly/short/fat/whatever'. How does this come to be? easy. Most men don't keep their looks as they age, and to most women, the same happens. Despite the everlasting sentence that must have been coined by women ' I look younger than my real age ', the women are going to suffer the effects of time, and no amount of good food or exercise can compare to the power of younger women. . . . . . . . . I will not stop my lifestyle just because women now want 'commitment'. Equality is a train that must be payed for, and some people don't like that. Elastica, maybe you should get some shaming lessons from my grandmother. She can do it like a master, heck, she's like the Da Vinci of shaming men into doing something they don't want to do . Mr. Cairo, I think there is a lot of truth to what you post, and wouldn't argue about many or most of your points being factually true. What I do wonder about though is your motivation. We human beings live in a world that is far from perfect. Relationships between men and women have always been difficult, and maybe they are worse than ever. So, now that we realize that and understand a lot of the details about why it is, what should we do? Some of your comments to women seem to be akin to hitting a person with the truth like it was a weapon. I don't know if you intend to hurt, but you probably are. What is your goal for this? Maybe you are trying to “wake up” your fellow men to the injustices they face and the ways they are being taken advantage of. I don't disagree with you that those things exist. But, I'm not sure that the answer is for men to say “women are treating men badly so I'm going to use them and leave them or whatever I feel like”. Personally, I think that the way forward happens only when a specific men and woman can put aside their pain and differences to have a successful marriage and raise the children that are necessary for the human race to continue. Not just give the children material things, but the best most loving home possible. For me, that's the goal, both for myself and for encouraging others. I think both men and women have to sacrifice somewhat to make that possible. I do think that there are some hard truths about attractiveness and fertility that women have to face at some point in their lives (and men also in different ways), but I don't think hitting them over the head with them helps. I think it may actually make it harder for women to accept the truth. That's me. What are you hoping to accomplish here? Scott
zengirl Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 How does this come to be? easy. Most men don't keep their looks as they age, and to most women, the same happens. While I agree with this general sentiment (looks fade), I find it weird how much it's come up in this thread. Most people I know look better at 30 than they did at 20. (I'm not in my 30s, but I imagine I will too.) My mother was way prettier in her 30s than in her 20s, and I've seen this with men and women pretty much. . . always. I mean, it depends how you live, but most of the people I know take care of themselves, I guess, and can afford to do so better closer to 30 than we did in college when we ate ramen, drank cheap, nasty beer, and slept 3 hours a night. Looks may fade, but I don't think they do so even all that close to 30 for most of the people who wait to get married (educated professionals generally wait longer). My Mom's looks are just starting to fade, and she's just turned 51. I guess it depends on the kinds of people. I've certainly seen some rough twenty-somethings even! But I find it a bit absurd when anyone who's not a teenager thinks 30 is old or 'past' any sort of point. I'd say if you reached 30 and had no significant relationships, that's odd. But I'd say that about 25, too. It's not an age thing---it's, "OK, there are late bloomers, but after 10-15 years. . . if you cannot form a meaningful romantic attachment, you're behind the curve" type thing (not trying to be offensive; it's just true; relationships teach you how to be in relationships, so you've got to be in some okayish ones to ever be ready for a GREAT! one, I think). Take away a man's sex drive and most of them would not waste time with women. Give a man the looks or the resources to have younger women, and he's going to follow what nature wanted him to do: spread his seed. While I'd never want a sexless relationship, I'd definitely not want a guy who was only with me because of his sex drive. There are men who want families and bonds and partnerships as well, and there are women that don't want it. I know men who are desperate to get married and have kids --- good, quality men who are super frustrated at not finding someone to settle down with. They get girlfriends, things don't work out, they're really bummed, they try again. I do believe they'll get married. I also know women who really don't want to get married and definitely don't want kids. The stereotypes just don't fit anymore. Your whole crusade seems fueled by some sort of anger that people look down on you for having casual sex and not wanting kids, but that's your own damn baggage. People have problems with all sorts of my choices (We could start with the fact that I'm non-Christian; geez, how much easier my life would be if that weren't true!), but it's not society as a whole---it's individual people with their myriad value systems and the like. Not worth being angry about or casting some sort of sweeping net on "The way things are." Some 30something single guys want younger women. Some don't. Some aren't commitment material. Some are. You clearly don't know or WANT to know much about forming truly committed partnerships and having a family with someone (and that's okay) so I'd say you're likely not the expert on the kinds of guys who do, just like I'd be a poor expert on women who enjoy casual sex (I know some who claim to and certainly seem to; I'll never get it, but they're happy, and everyone leading a path that makes them happy is what matters). At any rate, I don't think elastica was 'shaming' anyone. She's expressing her experiences. Don't know why you took it so personally. This is how it is for me. Many of my friends are engaged/married, some with kids. I'm 24 and none of them are older than me. I was born and raised in a small town, though. You see 30+ singles as the norm when you're in a metro area. I think this just about sums it up. Urban area, married after 30 . . . Pretty common. Especially amongst educated singles with strong careers. Small town, totally different story.
Disillusioned Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 Mr. Cairo, Some of your comments to women seem to be akin to hitting a person with the truth like it was a weapon. I don't know if you intend to hurt, but you probably are. What is your goal for this? Like my uncle used to say, "if you can't baffle them with brilliance, befuddle them with BS". Mr. Cairo appears to have been schooled in that philosophy.
Disillusioned Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 All of these guys are different. The main thing about men that all men share is this: all men want sex. And most are capable of selling their mothers to get some. Like I said already, if I wanted sex, I'd have gone broke years ago from driving to ranches in Nevada. It's more accurate to say some men need sex the way a junkie needs his heroin. Withdrawal from either is said to be pretty hellish. Basically, its like this. When women decide to mate, that is, to reproduce, they look around and select for the best potential mate. The trouble with this is that this decision comes from the past. They are so used to being the center of all male attention that all of this sudden retreat of the high quality mate is extremely shocking for them. NOTHING can make a woman angrier than figuring out men don't want her. To complete this, part of the anger that the women with the cognitive dissonance have, for the other half of the male population(the men who were never popular with the women, thus these particular women assumed that the guys would be jumping mountains to get down on their knees and offer to pay up(and handsomely at that!) for what the other guys had, when the woman was attractive, young, and std- free. There are plenty of suckers out there, but with the collapse of the economy you won't find that many suckers willing to spend their few bucks on such women. In plain English, this means we're not just surviving, we're actually thriving, and the last thing we want is somebody coming along and messing it up. Except of course for the masochists, but they're in short supply nowadays. Another side of the angst of the woman with the cognitive dissonance has its origin in the recent phenomenon of the men who, like the group I spoke before, have now the resources that women are looking for, prefer to reject relationships and casual sex(some of them even know that the sex they'd get in marriage would disappear in a matter of months ) and instead, dedicate themselves to their hobbies, their gadgets, and their toys. ...or, accomplishing something meaningful with their lives, such as writing books (hint, hint). Beethoven, Newton, and Tesla are 3 who immediately come to mind. Hell, even H.P. Lovecraft enjoyed writing sci-fi more than screwing his wife. That's one of the major reasons many, MANY women hate porn, prostitution, and electronics. The men are spending their resources on something other than on them, and when you think of how the Roman Empire in its dying breath, tried to force men into marrying and having children, and how those guys simply ran away from the empire, allowing it to fall, you notice that the golden age of men and women eventually meets an end. Nowadays, however, there are fewer and fewer places to run away to. Guess why? Because you can't run away from trouble; there's no place that far. You can go to Honyockland, Never-never land, or even Mars if your budget will hack it... but you won't get away from the problems. Nothing in life annoys more a woman, than a man of high quality, choosing to only date younger women - or worse. Like I said, nothing makes women angrier than when men don't want them. If he rejects the dating/casual sex scene. Oh man, the waters of everlasting shaming come flooding down, and nothing is more funny to a man, than a woman who is so bitter over the loss of the sexual power she had, when she was younger. Guess what... to a man who's already satisfied that he's done something meaningful with his life, any woman who tries to shame him is going to have about as much impact as a fly on a windshield. She's going to come off as a real-life troll, and a bitter one at that. As for sexual power, women are always going to have only as much sexual power as men want to project onto them, and vice versa. The only thing different about chemistry in the Internet age is that men and women both have to do equal shares of the work. This goes against what we were always taught offline, that men must knock themselves out to get noticed, while all the women have to do is switch off their force field. And my oh my, a lot of women are adapting very badly to having to do "a man's job"---having to make the first move and deal with almost constant rejection. With the state of the national economy, the women who are looking for sugar daddies are being hit the hardest. They're crying foul, but it doesn't really work... knowhatImean? Many of the younger guys are shunning relationships, rather than dealing with them, they are playing video games, and many are rejecting romantic interactions with women, as you can see in Japan, about 40% of the men aged 18-25 are becoming asexual, and the women are now the chasers and despite of that, they are still left to spend the night alone . Yeah, well, more power to them. I wonder why we can't be more like the practical Japanese... they eat with handy chopsticks instead of messy knives and forks, their saws cut when you pull them instead of when you push them, and they have gadgets for seemingly every need (including Aiko the robot girl). And yet if 40% of younger Japanese men are becoming asexual, we don't see them ending up in ERs with the DTs. The problem is that Americans tend to glom onto cheap thrills and then indulge until they knock themselves out---consequences be damned! You'll probably now witness a different version of shaming language, the bitter one. It's already been going on for a couple of years now.
zengirl Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 I dated Japanese men in Tokyo. I didn't notice that 40% of them were 'becoming' asexual. Though, in fact, they're under great pressure to get married, generally (much more so than U.S. males OR females), who could tell? The rebellious ones vis a vi marriage seem to be chasing women just the same. . . just for other reasons. Sure, they play a lot of Starcraft, but they usually go out to Whiskey Bars after. They still want to get laid.
irc333 Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 Yep, suburbia = nothing to do but get married and make babies. LOL. This is how it is for me. Many of my friends are engaged/married, some with kids. I'm 24 and none of them are older than me. I was born and raised in a small town, though. You see 30+ singles as the norm when you're in a metro area.
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