fortyninethousand322 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 My post was meant as a clarification to fortyninethousand322's post on the "grey" area. People in positions of authority shouldn't engage in consensual relationships with their pupils. Plain and simple. If they do, they have to relinquish the duties whereby they have authority over the student. This includes Teacher's assistants (i.e., grad students in positions of authority). I didn't even realize that's what you were referring to. Of course TA's are included in the category of professors and thus off limits. But not all grad students are TA's, and many grad students do have classes with undergrads (at least at my school). So I guess that's my clarification of my original post with your clarification in mind. If that makes any sense.
Kamille Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 I didn't even realize that's what you were referring to. Of course TA's are included in the category of professors and thus off limits. But not all grad students are TA's, and many grad students do have classes with undergrads (at least at my school). So I guess that's my clarification of my original post with your clarification in mind. If that makes any sense. I believe we're in the clear.
Author one goal Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 I believe most Universities have policies similar to this one when it comes to relationships between Faculty and students. http://wustl.edu/policies/consent.html Basically, a person in a positions of authority (professor, TAs, etc) should avoid entering in a relationship with a student. Should a relationship develop, the person in a position of authority is responsible for terminating the position of authority, by transferring their responsibilities to another professor. Basically, it isn't up to the student to transfer or drop out, but up to the figure of authority to take the measures necessary, thus possibly penalizing themselves (if, for instance, the relationship developped in the course of a class or a TA relationship, and not in the course of an advisory relationship (where these breaches are significantly more frequent). The faulty authority figure loses credits and the value they hold towards tenure or sabbatical. Alternatively, as a TA, the TA might lose income and the possibility to be rehired. Should the person in a position of authority fail to comply, than the department will take disciplinary measures against the person of authority. In other words, professors, TAs, sole position lectures pay the price for engaging in relationships with students, not students. Wow. That is pretty strict. So I should have waited until after the semester. You think I would had a legit shot then? I mean way it sounds my teacher did not tell anyone else about it, so maybe she wasn't totally turned off by it, but didnt want to get in trouble.
Kamille Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Wow. That is pretty strict. So I should have waited until after the semester. You think I would had a legit shot then? I mean way it sounds my teacher did not tell anyone else about it, so maybe she wasn't totally turned off by it, but didnt want to get in trouble. No. She's being mean to you, remember? She isn't interested. How about you drop this subject - it won't lead to any conclusive evidence that society favors women. I've read your past threads, and you seem to consistently come up with scenarios that are about potential cases of "sexual harassment". You're even pretty clear, in a few of them, that you think society is biased against men. Start another thread. If your one goal is to prove that sexual harassment lawsuits are proof that society is biased against men, you'll have to come up with a better scenario than the professor one.
dispatch3d Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 For those of us unfamiliar with the inner workings of your life... can you give a Cliffs? cliffs: kids a trainwreck.
Knittress Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) ...obvious that this troll isn't smart enough to fake being a department chair. That comma was TOTALLY misplaced. LOL, I'm actually more offended by this than anything else they've been pulling. Er... now I'm reconsidering. But still! Edited April 13, 2011 by Knittress
Author one goal Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 I did also inform my teacher that I spoke with the dept head about it. Apparently from the sound of the dept head my teacher didn't tell her about me. Will my teacher be mad now that I went to the dept head?
One Goal's Dad Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Wow. That is pretty strict. So I should have waited until after the semester. You think I would had a legit shot then? I mean way it sounds my teacher did not tell anyone else about it, so maybe she wasn't totally turned off by it, but didnt want to get in trouble. I thought i told you to stop trolling. Don't make me lock up your computer again. Remember that girl you were harassing at work? No rice pudding for you tonight at dinner.
Lorelei_Lane Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 I thought i told you to stop trolling. Don't make me lock up your computer again. Remember that girl you were harassing at work? No rice pudding for you tonight at dinner. :lmao::lmao:
Jazzari Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 I did also inform my teacher that I spoke with the dept head about it. Apparently from the sound of the dept head my teacher didn't tell her about me. Will my teacher be mad now that I went to the dept head?Yes. She will flunk you for sure. But I'm sure you can rationalize this. She's only flunking you so that there is no more teacher/student relationship. She wants you. Bad.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) I take it one step further than Kamille. Even while a grad student who is not a TA has no official authority... the following kind of situation can suggest impropriety. Graduate student who's not a TA (Or is TA ing another course) dates an undergraduate... everything is fine as long as the relationship is good. After a time the undergraduate is in a course being taught by one of their grad student SO's collegues (a TA, or even a professor such as that grad students mentor.) Then the relationship goes sour....at the same time the undergraduate gets bad grades from the other TA (or even a professor such as that grad students mentor.) Do you see the problem that arises? The undergraduate could and in our litigious society very well could file a complaint or even SUE claiming that their ex who was a grad student (even while not TA ing that particular class) used their influence to screw them over... or that one of their Ex's friends "took revenge". Failing the undergraduate for breaking up with their good friend, colleague, the graduate student.. Now such a claim may or may not be total BS. However people in authority, even if it's informal authority (i.e. having a close relationship with those who have formal authority, "cronies"..) have been known to abuse it. That's why these policies exist. Furthermore a malicious dumped ex undergraduate student could make such an accusation out of spite and ruin your reputation, your schools reputation, your departments reputation, and your career. I have seen it happen. This teacher (or myself) dating anyone who ranks lower is playing with fire. (In the military they don't allow officers to fraternize with enlisted persons for the same reason... that way there be dragons.) Edited April 14, 2011 by Mrlonelyone
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I don't know Mrlonelyone, that scenario seems kind of far fetched. I mean by the same token you can't date an undergrad at another university either. I mean let's say the two of you break up she later graduates then applies to a grad program at your current school then doesn't get accepted, claims that you sabotaged her application, still looks bad for you and the university etc. Or, let's say you date some girl who isn't even a student. You also become friends with some guy who works for a random company. You and the girl break up, she applies for a job at the same place your friend works, doesn't get the job, claims you sabotaged it. I can think of a million other similar scenarios. Life is an unending ethical dilemma by this logic. I would never suggest that you do something you're not comfortable with, but I personally don't agree completely with you.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Well that's why I said it's a grey area. Your scenario is way more on the white side of the grey area.... dating an undergraduate from another university is 99.99% of the time not going to cause a problem. Unless, and in the sciences this can be the case, you have a working relationship with the faculty or students at that particular other university. Then it's the same whiff of impropriety that should be avoided. If you break up with the undergraduate and a known associate of yours grades them poorly they can at least file a complaint against you or your associate. Which can lead to all sorts of formal official or informal unofficial sanctions (like you not getting a job or a good recomendation.) It also comes down to office politics. These things are often more complex than black and white. That said a graduate student weather they are a TA, RA, or paying their own way should just stay away from undergraduate students at the same university. (As for those at other universities make sure there are no conflict of interest no matter how remote.) It's the same reason a faculty member will generally keep their hands off their students these days. Even if they have tenure and can't be fired... they can be given a crummy assignment. So while sex with teacher a older mature experienced woman ( or man) may be appealing forget about it.
whichwayisup Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 If I lay low and over the summer is it possible maybe she will still give me a slight shot? I mean even just a two percent chance. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0% chance of her going out with you, or being your friend. One G, let it go. Holy crap buddy..You're OBSESSED. You're going to make her HATE you, maybe to the point of getting a restraining order against you if you don't leave her alone.
whichwayisup Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I did also inform my teacher that I spoke with the dept head about it. Apparently from the sound of the dept head my teacher didn't tell her about me. Will my teacher be mad now that I went to the dept head? She may now go talk to the Dept. head and ask for you to be transferred out of her class. Or they will arrange for the Dept head/another teacher to grade you from here on out. You keep digging your grave deeper and deeper.
Author one goal Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 She may now go talk to the Dept. head and ask for you to be transferred out of her class. Or they will arrange for the Dept head/another teacher to grade you from here on out. You keep digging your grave deeper and deeper. I mean she hates me, and doesn't like me already obviously. How could she hate me more?
Lucky_One Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I did also inform my teacher that I spoke with the dept head about it. Apparently from the sound of the dept head my teacher didn't tell her about me. Will my teacher be mad now that I went to the dept head? Now you have just given her the ultra green light to show the dept head all of your emails, and explain to him/her how you have been harassing/stalking her. Hell yeah, she's gonna be pissed that you are dragging your stupidity and misguided desire for her into her professional life, and she is going to cover her butt from here to Birmingham.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Now you have just given her the ultra green light to show the dept head all of your emails, and explain to him/her how you have been harassing/stalking her. Hell yeah, she's gonna be pissed that you are dragging your stupidity and misguided desire for her into her professional life, and she is going to cover her butt from here to Birmingham. He does not need to worry about "harassment" or "stalking" allegations. I know the way people use that word now a days. Something like this. Urban Dictionary: stalker 2713 up, 411 down buy stalker mugs, tshirts and magnets It seems to be that the term 'stalker' no longer means what it used to mean--the pathological ANONYMOUS follower and tab-keeper of another person or persons (A detective who has not been hired and has no real reason to follow someone). The old definition also would say that a 'stalker' often has an imaginary connection with the stalkee. HOWEVER, common usage of the term, along with the term 'creepy', has come to be used as a defense mechanism for anyone seeking justification for not being attracted socially or physically to someone else. This term is nearly as overdiagnosed as ADHD is in children. Any women who think an undesirable man might be interested in her will almost always automatically label him a stalker. Note: Far too many idiots think they're more important than they really are. Real stalkers seek out beautiful, interesting, and often famous members of the attractive gender. 90 percent of the people who use the term couldn't get a real stalker to save their lives. A hot girl who follows you around and shows up at your door is a friend. An ugly girl who follows you around and shows up at your door is now, according to most, a stalker. A hot guy who gives you flowers is a romantic. An ugly guy who gives you flowers is a stalker. creepy annoying tag-along clingy unattractive suiter by Colin Robertson Nov 12, 2005 share this :lmao: All he did was send a pretty woman some harmless emails. She refused his advances and he backed off. No harm no foul. Seriously the only person in such a situation who had any risk was her if she said yes. The students in his case are expected to be less mature and less mentally disciplined ( no offense) while the instructor is expected to have better judgement. Him being charged for anything would be like a 16 year old girl being charged for crushing on an older man. Not gonna happen.
Jazzari Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Urban dictionary isn't the best place to get a definition. Let's try a legal dictionary: Stalker: A person who intentionally and repeatedly follows or harasses another person and who makes a credible threat, either expressed or implied, with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm is guilty of the crime of stalking. A person may be charged with aggravated stalking if they commit the crime of stalking while subject to a temporary restraining order, injunction against trespass, or similar order. Stalkers target public figures or celebrities, children, and sometimes even complete strangers. But, in most cases, a stalker is someone you know and with whom you have had a relationship. Criminal statutes which can be used in an effort to deter stalking include laws against harassment and assault, as well as a specific stalking law. This, of course, can vary from state to state. Thus far, I don't think the teacher feels in fear of death or bodily harm. Thought I'm sure he's made her cautious. I think this situation falls more under harassment: Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcomed and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. Harassing behavior may include, but is not limited to, epithets, derogatory comments or slurs and lewd propositions, assault, impeding or blocking movement, of ofensive touching or any physical interference with normal work or movement, and visual insults, such as derogatory posters or cartoons.
Author one goal Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 He does not need to worry about "harassment" or "stalking" allegations. I know the way people use that word now a days. Something like this. :lmao: All he did was send a pretty woman some harmless emails. She refused his advances and he backed off. No harm no foul. Seriously the only person in such a situation who had any risk was her if she said yes. The students in his case are expected to be less mature and less mentally disciplined ( no offense) while the instructor is expected to have better judgement. Him being charged for anything would be like a 16 year old girl being charged for crushing on an older man. Not gonna happen. Great post. However it wasn't in good taste asking her out while I am a student of hers and I told both of them that. I should have waited until afterwards and asked her out.
irc333 Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Yeah, it's pretty much dead on, what it said in the Dictionary. Seems women like to throw around the word "stalker" even in joking fashion when referring to some guy that has a crush on her. When she's just somewhat full of herself. The Urban dictionary is a bit representative to those who like to "stretch the truth" when it comes to stalking. The word is thrown about so commonly these days. He does not need to worry about "harassment" or "stalking" allegations. I know the way people use that word now a days. Something like this. :lmao: All he did was send a pretty woman some harmless emails. She refused his advances and he backed off. No harm no foul. Seriously the only person in such a situation who had any risk was her if she said yes. The students in his case are expected to be less mature and less mentally disciplined ( no offense) while the instructor is expected to have better judgement. Him being charged for anything would be like a 16 year old girl being charged for crushing on an older man. Not gonna happen.
irc333 Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hell, there are people that annoy the crap out of me, including my friends. lol Urban dictionary isn't the best place to get a definition. Let's try a legal dictionary: This, of course, can vary from state to state. Thus far, I don't think the teacher feels in fear of death or bodily harm. Thought I'm sure he's made her cautious. I think this situation falls more under harassment:
Jazzari Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hell, there are people that annoy the crap out of me, including my friends. lolHmmm.....good point. I wonder if I can get a restraining order against my boss? He keeps harassing me expecting work to get done. It's so annoying.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Jazzari What he has done is ask the woman out and sent some emails. That's not stalking or harassment. If she explicitly and expressly said directly to him no stop do not communicate with me outside of turning in assignments... and he persisted... that would be harassment. In on jurisdiction in the world is a single unwanted advance stalking or harassment. If that was the case no man should ever approach a woman unless he knows she'll say yes. Hmmm.....good point. I wonder if I can get a restraining order against my boss? He keeps harassing me expecting work to get done. It's so annoying. You can sue someone for creating a hostile work environment. Just accuse him of looking at you too much during working hours. I mean we have gotten to the point where a pat on the back that's a little to low can get a man fired. (Which is too bad cause a little pat on the backside can be a real pick me up some days.)
Lucky_One Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Oh, I agree that he hasn't really done anything that he could be charged and arrested for, in the legal system outside the college. But....an excerpt from the UNC-Chapel Hill handbook. :bunny: Emergency Disciplinary Action In order to protect University property or members of the University community or to prevent disruption of the academic process, occasionally the University must take emergency action to separate a student from the University. The Chancellor has, therefore, created the Emergency Evaluation and Action Committee. With respect to disciplinary matters, the committee acts only when no other administrative solution, including action by the Student Judicial System, is in its judgment adequate to deal effectively with the situation. Students whose cases may require action by the committee fall into five categories: • Students whose behavior, on or off campus, is such that their presence in the University, in the judgment of the committee, poses a serious threat of disruption of the academic process or a continuing danger to other members of the University community, or University property; :bunny: Again, I am not saying that he has done anything that could be enforced under their guidelines, BUT his behavior is escalating, and he has zero clue of how to stop inviting drama into a situation that should have been resolved a month ago. His hot teacher might feel that she is, indeed, in danger, and universities are not unaware of all the nutcases running around these days. I do think that this poor misguided dude needs to quit while he still has some semblance of being ahead.
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