Ross MwcFan Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 You do choose your league. Don't argue with me. You sad sacks have no idea how impressive you could be to a woman if you simply felt good enough about yourself to really be yourself or to even smile at her. What a load of rubbish.
Jazzari Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Nope, not going to convince me with that argument. Beyond a shadow of a doubt women are very shallow. Too many average girls only want to date men who they consider to be very high value. Men usually date down and women date up. This may change when a woman gets older and realizes that Mr. Badboy-hotshot might not be the best father and lowers her standards to find a guy who is. The only possible way I can be convinced that women aren't shallow is if an average or higher girl will get in a relationship with me or an FWB thing. I got a feeling that I'll be sleeping in a shallow grave long before that happens.I have more respect for the girl who only dates up, than the guy who dates anything with breasts in the hopes of getting laid. Being selective is not a bad thing.
jean-luc sisko Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Leagues exist, it's just being PC to say they don't. they're simply not absolutes.
somedude81 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 What bugs me the most about women's shallowness, is that all the women seem to want them same men. I'm sure we've all seen the popular guy who has five or more girls fawning over him. While plenty of more girls are attracted to him, but for whatever reason aren't taking part in the attention gaggle. Too many women would love being 3rd or 4th in line with Mr. popular; instead of being number 1 for Mr. normal.
donnamaybe Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Leagues exist in some people's minds. Shallow women exist, and shallow MEN exist. There are also real people in the world, but folks who are determined to believe that ALL women or men are this or that are going to settle for the shallow ones, believing that's all there is. So sad how some people shoot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous beliefs.
zengirl Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 What bugs me the most about women's shallowness, is that all the women seem to want them same men. I'm sure we've all seen the popular guy who has five or more girls fawning over him. While plenty of more girls are attracted to him, but for whatever reason aren't taking part in the attention gaggle. Too many women would love being 3rd or 4th in line with Mr. popular; instead of being number 1 for Mr. normal. I know you're older, but isn't most of your social experience in college at the moment (Aren't you currently in college? Isn't that your 'dating pool')? The girls who stand out most in college are probably like that. I mean, girls in a sorority or something. Even in college, I met people with diverse views on everything, including attraction---but they were found in more niche places, my short film group, the school literary magazine, my philosophy club, etc. At any rate: (Even out of college) there are men AND women who are approached by many ("fawned" on as you say) and those who NEVER get approached. Sometimes it's not even about beauty. People see what they expect to see in most cases.
Cracker Jack Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I wish I knew what league I was in. But at the end of the day, I can't worry about stuff like that. It does nothing but hold me back and is counterproductive. Not wanting to talk to a woman because you feel she's dimensions beyond your league is the worse feeling ever. And FTR, I have tons of self-esteem issues--however, I'm working on improving in that area everyday, so yeah. I know there's tons of women in the world that are simply not attracted to me because I don't do it for them, but that's life. Just gotta find one who's "in my league", or someone who lets her guard down and allows me to sneak into her league, so to speak, ha!
Eeyore79 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I wish I knew what league I was in. I think people tend to assume that leagues are based on looks, when in reality there are many more factors involved. It's probably slightly more about looks for men than it is for women; women consider personality/confidence/status a lot more than men do. But in general, a person's overall attractiveness is a combination of their looks, their behavior, and who they are as a person. So even if you're not beautiful, you can play in a higher league simply by being charming and successful.
somedude81 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I know you're older, but isn't most of your social experience in college at the moment (Aren't you currently in college? Isn't that your 'dating pool')? Yup, I'm in college and I'm older than most everybody else. While it is my dating pool, I'm mostly just an observer, due to the phenomenon I just mentioned. The girls who stand out most in college are probably like that. I mean, girls in a sorority or something. Eh, girls don't really stand out. I've seen situations where a guy shoes up and four girls go running to him. That just doesn't happen with girls. I have never seen more than one guy at a time go greet a girl. Women seem to just go into harem mode. It's the weirdest thing. Even in college, I met people with diverse views on everything, including attraction---but they were found in more niche places, my short film group, the school literary magazine, my philosophy club, etc. At any rate: (Even out of college) there are men AND women who are approached by many ("fawned" on as you say) and those who NEVER get approached. Sometimes it's not even about beauty. People see what they expect to see in most cases.Yeah there are people who never get approached. That's what 90% of men go through. I do think that most young women have been approached at least a few times in their life by suitable males. And it doesn't really matter what she looks like as long as she isn't a troll. As long as a girl has a fun personality guys will go after her. I think people tend to assume that leagues are based on looks, when in reality there are many more factors involved. It's probably slightly more about looks for men than it is for women; women consider personality/confidence/status a lot more than men do. But in general, a person's overall attractiveness is a combination of their looks, their behavior, and who they are as a person. So even if you're not beautiful, you can play in a higher league simply by being charming and successful. For women, I'd say they primarily care about looks. Though looks can also mean muscular or tall, not just a handsome face. If a man doesn't have good looks, he may have a chance based on his personality/confidence/status. If a man doesn't have above average looks or a high level of personality/confidence/status. He will have an extremely difficult time getting even average girls.
Cracker Jack Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Yeah, that's true, Eeyore. The main thing that's confused me is the mixture of interest I've gotten over the past few yrs. Some from highly desirable women (I was too scared to pursue anything because I never imagined I had a chance in the situation. Derp), and some others who probably wouldn't be considered that high, generally speaking. I think that's the thing that always confused me. And of course, the low self-esteem makes it even worse. It just forced me to blatantly write myself off. If I had to guess the one thing that's been holding me back in my love life (or lack of it), it would be my low self-esteem. It's really did considerable damage, and I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Usually I just try to use an excuse (I don't look good enough, not tall enough, etc) to justify why I haven't had much success in dating, and really, I think 99% of it is simply my fault for just not being myself and always finding a reason to not exert myself. There were times where I just simply didn't like myself, so I didn't expect a woman to (ergh, I did, but eventually realized that it would be lopsided) But overall, you're right. So much more comes into play when considering the entire package, which is why the "league" thing doesn't even make me feel down anymore. I can't believe I used to cry myself to sleep stressing over this concept, ha! Edited April 12, 2011 by Cracker Jack
PJKino Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I don't know. Men once they are physically attracted to someone that's it for them. Social approval matters a bit less. It matters but not as much. The opinion of a mans mother and father will matter for sure. Where as for some women it seems to matter MORE than even their own physical attraction. What their mother, aunt, friends, passersby on the street... think of their mate matters more than weather or not their mate is a attractive person of good character. Yup i saw it last week a women whos not real young shes 28 brought out a new guy she claims to really like.. She asks her friend if she thinks hes cute an then asks her if hes too short..Mind you shes 5'3 and this dudes around 5'8 its not like she towering over him its near the opposite.. Most women are very insecure creatures and need approval of their mate by allot of people..thats why things like status are important to a women because she wants somebody a lot of other women want and already socially approved..
Leeway Harris Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 If I had to guess the one thing that's been holding me back in my love life (or lack of it), it would be my low self-esteem. It's really did considerable damage, and I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Usually I just try to use an excuse (I don't look good enough, not tall enough, etc) to justify why I haven't had much success in dating, and really, I think 99% of it is simply my fault for just not being myself and always finding a reason to not exert myself. There were times where I just simply didn't like myself, so I didn't expect a woman to (ergh, I did, but eventually realized that it would be lopsided) It's good that you're working on this. Make sure you get it mostly sorted out before you get too old. The older you get, the more your patterns are set in stone, and eventually it's impossible to change.
zengirl Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I've seen situations where a guy shoes up and four girls go running to him. That just doesn't happen with girls. I have never seen more than one guy at a time go greet a girl. Women seem to just go into harem mode. It's the weirdest thing. I've never seen that, outside of high school or sorority life, in the real world. And I've definitely seen several guys at a club go after the same hot girl. I'd say it's the same crap, either gender. At any rate, that's in the 'meat' scene. I don't really see those kind of scenes at all anymore, not at 26 and out of college. For women, I'd say they primarily care about looks. Though looks can also mean muscular or tall, not just a handsome face. Completely disagree. At least at my age, with my social circle. Studies would also show you're pretty wrong, too, in terms of what triggers female attraction and why they tend to pick mates. Of course, someone has to look good (or hopefully they have to!) to YOU in order to date them, but the scenes you've described aren't real dating scenes anyway. They're like the club/party scenes of youth. No one meets real partners that way (or very few and those that do, it's accidental).
oaks Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 There's no such thing as leagues. There are girls I want to date and girls I don't want to date, and there are girls who will date me and girls who won't. Swap 'girls' for 'guys' as per your preference, if you have one.
Eeyore79 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 For women, I'd say they primarily care about looks. Though looks can also mean muscular or tall, not just a handsome face. I think most young women care primarily about looks and personality. At their age they're not looking for a life partner, so the attributes that make a guy a good partner aren't important to them; they care most about whether a guy is hot and/or fun. Slightly older women (late twenties onwards) who are looking to settle down are more likely to consider a guy's other attributes. The main thing that's confused me is the mixture of interest I've gotten over the past few yrs. Some from highly desirable women (I was too scared to pursue anything because I never imagined I had a chance in the situation. Derp), and some others who probably wouldn't be considered that high, generally speaking. There could be a wide variety of reasons why those women were attracted to you. Even if you considered them to be in a higher league, there was obviously something about you that (in their eyes) made you compatible. Looks-wise I might be considered to be in a slightly higher league than my bf, but as people we are highly compatible. He has some of the key attributes that I want in a partner, which makes him highly desirable to me even though he isn't the most handsome man around (I've dated better looking men who lacked those key attributes). But overall, you're right. So much more comes into play when considering the entire package. Nobody chooses a partner based just on looks. A f-buddy maybe, but not a partner. Of course there still has to be some level of physical attraction to choose someone as a partner, but it's not the main thing, and attraction can be triggered by liking the person's other attributes. I wasn't attracted to my bf when I first saw him, but as I got to know him I liked his personality and style, and we had lots in common, so my attraction to him grew.
cutecatch Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I have finally come to the conclusion of these things: Dating Leagues existWomen aren't shallow #1: Dating leagues exist, but only between individuals. If someone likes fat men, or fat women, and they're skinny and pretty, then someone who's fat and is their preference would be their preference. Same with the other way around. People are individuals, and therefore you can't say "all women do this" or "all women do that", because someone might be chubby and average looking, and paired with someone of similar attractiveness, or they might date someone who's much more good looking than they are. #2: Because of this, women aren't shallow. It's not shallow to only date a certain type. If someone is overweight, and they demand a skinny person, it's not shallow that they go after only that type primarily. What would be shallow is if they didn't date people that weren't their type, because they're so focused on people that are harder to obtain, but that doesn't really make them shallow, either. Maybe a bit crazy! But not shallow. Having a dating type doesn't make you shallow. I know it's crazy for a 45 year old to go after 20 year olds...but who knows? He might snag one. Maybe he's making things rougher for himself, but there are women in the same position who refuse to settle (they're called cougars), and not all of them are attractive, either. Bottom line is, people are people. If they want to be picky, let them be it. They might find someone who fits their narrow view of what they're looking for - or they might not. As the saying goes, let them dig their own grave. Or perhaps they'll be digging a flower garden, which will blossom wonderfully. I completely agree so I hate the fact that women that I know criticize me for only dating girls between 18-22. I consider 30 year old woman way past their prime, and anything between the ages of 23-29 only good for a 1 night stand.
Mutant Debutante Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I don't know. Men once they are physically attracted to someone that's it for them. Social approval matters a bit less. It matters but not as much. The opinion of a mans mother and father will matter for sure. Where as for some women it seems to matter MORE than even their own physical attraction. What their mother, aunt, friends, passersby on the street... think of their mate matters more than weather or not their mate is a attractive person of good character. I agree that some chicks do that, especially the sorority type you mentioned earlier....but I don't agree AT ALL that men do it less, I think that's wishful thinking, or maybe your local culture or something. I have a few friends who are heavy, "BBW", and other friends who are maybe bi or pre-op and living the life and there are a lot, I mean a LOT of guys who are attracted to them physically and will date them and sleep with them but only on the downlow, they only want to introduce their friends and families to hotties/"normal" girls, it's really sad and hurtful and has made some of my friends pretty jaded as it's happened to them repeatedly and broken their hearts.
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