Having sex on the first date...

[Untouchable_Fire]

The double standard concerning sexual behavior automatically assumes that the two genders are on an even playing field. The way sexuality is socialized nowadays, that's simply not true. It's ignorant to say that the difference of ease with which sexual activity can/is acquired between the sexes cannot or should not affect the way people judge others' sexuality. You stating that it's hypocritical without addressing any of the substance of the argument just makes you look dogmatic.

 

I agree with you. In a perfect world it's a double standard... but in the real world it really isn't.

 

I don't really know many of the things my friends do, but I can say the vast majority would not be interested in a long term relationship with a woman they perceived as easy. Some would acknowledge this as somewhat of a double standard and some would not. Either way my friends are not special.

[zengirl]

My point was that most people turn a blind eye, consciously or unconsciously, when they realize they (or their buddies) have engaged in a criticized behavior (in this case a double standard). Most people don't even realize it. I just find it interesting how everyone here turns into Mr./Ms. Perfect.

 

I would never claim to be perfect, but I would say that if someone I knew had your views on this, I could never really be friends with them (doesn't mean I wouldn't be polite to them etc). I can't be friends with people who voted for George W. Bush or all sorts of other views either, though, so it's just how I roll. If someone believes something that I find important and makes me angry and sad, we just can't be friends. . . Seems healthy to me. Doesn't mean I expect people to be "Perfect" but I expect them to have similar values as me, if they're going to be in my social circle. Isn't that pretty much how everyone is?

 

The double standard concerning sexual behavior automatically assumes that the two genders are on an even playing field.

 

See, I reject your premise. I'm saying that it does NOT automatically assume that, nor is that relevant, in my value system, at least.

 

I won't point out the other many flaws in your logical system. I've done so in other posts, and honestly, I just don't care anymore. There are many --- as Kamille puts it --- "progressive" men who share my views. I'll just associate with them, particularly the ones who don't try to sleep with everyone because of some kind of weird 'scarcity' principle or see me as some sort of random 'gatekeeper' towards sex but rather see it as something two people choose to do, together, as a team.

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm "progressive" in the sense that I don't particularly care what behaviors people engage in and that consensual sexual behavior should generally not be constrained by law.

 

I'm fortunate to have friends and acquaintances with a wide variety of sociopolitical beliefs. Being a musician for a style of music that is considerably countercultural, I encounter plenty of people that you could call "lefties" or progressive to a pretty significant degree: vegans, raging (male) feminists, people who are active in Antifa groups, people who hate America but still leech off it anyway, and so forth. Although I generally hold most of their juvenile righteous indignation in contempt, the males in those groups have expressed some degree of agreement to what I'm saying. Regardless of what they might believe, regardless of what they actually wish would come true, most of them would still be put off by the prospect of seriously dating a promiscuous woman or one who does the horizontal hula on the first date. If you think the disparity in difficulty that exists between the sexes plays a small (or nonexistent) role in these conclusions, you're pretty naive.

Edited April 13, 2011 by TheBigQuestion

[Untouchable_Fire]

You are right about responsibility. I think that is left out of the equation. I seem to be hearing a lot of proclaiming rights but nothing of responsibility. Should sex me more than JO in a warm body. Sorry for being so crude but isn't that what it comes down to for some? I've heard sex compared to a "spiritual" experience & I've heard it compare to something slightly more intimate than a foot massage. I'm not agreeing with much of what this thread is saying but I there are a few things that seem to be spot on; "the responsibility to respect yourself" or is that trumped by gratification. I have had one night stands & sex on the first date and in retrospect I'm not proud and that is what I'm thinking, I'm not proud of myself. As someone once crudely put it, "the pleasure wasn't worth the clean up" & not worth the memory or the way I feel now. Just my opinion after reading through most of these posts and feeling slightly confused.

 

Birth control and STD treatments have removed the perception of consequences from sexual encounters. However, our biology remains unchanged... and people completely fail to realize the psychological impact.

 

Men and women who compartmentalize sex like this tend to be emotionally crippled bottom feeders. They routinely hurt other people in the quest to fill that empty void.

 

Sex is never "just sex" In my not so humble opinion.

[Gala]

Or do the same basic issues hold?

 

Thoughts?

[harmfulsweetz]

With every woman who I've slept with on the first date, not that many actually, they never got a 2nd date.

 

Way I look at it, if they were willing to give it to me that easily, they certainly are willing to give it to someone else as such.

 

Not trustworthy IMO.

 

Does that make you trustworthy? Why are you more worthy of trust than her? Think about it for a moment.

 

Personally, it's ill-advised if you are serious about wanting more simply because men think like the above, and don't allow any of their judgmental repurcussions to fall back onto them, no sir.

 

If a guy don't see a girl after having sex on the first date, chances are, he weren't that into her in the first place. Personally, if a guy will have sex with me on the first date, I'd do a hump and dump too, after all, he's not trustworthy, he's trashy and probably just riddled with STDs, and gives out all the cookies for free.

[proactivedreamer]

I agree with you. In a perfect world it's a double standard... but in the real world it really isn't.

 

I don't really know many of the things my friends do, but I can say the vast majority would not be interested in a long term relationship with a woman they perceived as easy. Some would acknowledge this as somewhat of a double standard and some would not. Either way my friends are not special.

 

Um...yeah in the world it is a double standard-not sure what you are talking about. It is really hard for me to wrap my mind around this rationalization, but think and believe what you want. The sad reality is that men still tell women, whether directly or indirectly, when and what to do with their bodies. It's bull**** if you ask me, and I think if we are going to play this game there should be fair play. How does it make sense for a man to sleep with a women he doesn't know much about, and he isn't judged in the same manner, in which a women engaging in the same behavior will be? I mean to me it seems like the vast majority of people do not really sit down and contemplate how absurd that sounds. The thing is these rules are part of our reality and if we question them or try to make sense of them we will experience discomfort. I really think this is an issue of power. Men want to have power over one of the most powerful forces in the universe, the vagina. They will forever deny it but if everyone really stopped to think about these rules, mores, and so forth, that keep women down, then our reality might be shaken to it's core.

[TheBigQuestion]

Um...yeah in the world it is a double standard-not sure what you are talking about. It is really hard for me to wrap my mind around this rationalization, but think and believe what you want. The sad reality is that men still tell women, whether directly or indirectly, when and what to do with their bodies. It's bull**** if you ask me, and I think if we are going to play this game there should be fair play. How does it make sense for a man to sleep with a women he doesn't know much about, and he isn't judged in the same manner, in which a women engaging in the same behavior will be? I mean to me it seems like the vast majority of people do not really sit down and contemplate how absurd that sounds. The thing is these rules are part of our reality and if we question them or try to make sense of them we will experience discomfort. I really think this is an issue of power. Men want to have power over one of the most powerful forces in the universe, the vagina. They will forever deny it but if everyone really stopped to think about these rules, mores, and so forth, that keep women down, then our reality might be shaken to it's core.

 

If you tried arguing without constantly making appeals to emotion, you'd be way more successful at getting your point across.

 

No one in this thread "told women what to do with their bodies." I don't care what you or anyone else does with their bodies unless that activity somehow infringes on my personal autonomy.

 

The male posters in this thread who have supported the conclusion that you are against have explicitly stated that they don't care what women do as long as they aren't deceptive about it. They have, for the most part, also condemned male promiscuity too. You also ignore a point I made before: PLENTY of people of both genders look down upon male promiscuity, or think that it makes them douche bags, and so forth. I've been hearing guys being derided by members of both sexes as "manwhores" on a regular basis since I was 15 years old. Maybe you're just too caught up in your indignation to realize that you're ignoring many aspects of reality that don't conform to your beliefs.

[veggirl]

I'm not going to date someone for months without sex. Sex is going to happen within the first month or I'm out. Sex is really really important to me in a relationship and I am not going to get attached to some dude with a small d*ck or dude who shoots his load in 5 minutes. I dealt with that crap for over 3 yrs with an ex, thinking it could improve and that I shouldn't be placing so much importance on our sex life. Pffft. NEVER AGAIN.

[linwood]

Anyone who has sex with me on the first date I automatically put under "not-relationship-material." They always become more or less a booty-call to me.

 

Depends. Sex on the first date will make me a skeptic as to whether or not she's a trashy woman. I'd probably give her a couple more dates to prove to me that she's not a total skeezer.

 

Doesn't matter. The focus is on her being a whore or not.

 

With every woman who I've slept with on the first date, not that many actually, they never got a 2nd date.

 

Way I look at it, if they were willing to give it to me that easily, they certainly are willing to give it to someone else as such.

 

Not trustworthy IMO.

 

People always try to bring up "well you're sleeping with her as well"....lol, yeah I know that much. But it's not MY loyalty, integrity, and clean health bill that I'd be skeptical about...I already know I'd make a fine loyal and clean long term relationship partner. But the woman tossing me the goods within a couple hours of knowing me...let's just say there's going to be alot of skepticism. Not because she likes having sex, but because I don't know any classy and self respecting women who would put out so easily, and a classy and self respecting woman is what I aim to commit to...not the loose bar fly.

 

So the answer to all the "double-standard!" cries is, well, I'm simply..a male.

 

Because of those differences the consequences from sex can be wildly different between men and women... it is something we know by instinct.

 

I think a good chunk of women fail to understand the meaning of being sexually liberated. It doesn't mean freedom from responsibility...

 

I am absolutely floored by the level of male hypocrisy in this thread.

It would be laughable if it wasn`t so...sad and misguided.

 

I slept with my wife on our first date 13 years ago.

I will never know a better woman if I live to be 100.

 

I don`t know why sex has to be "meaningful".

can`t it just be "fun"?

[hoping2heal]

I think if it is someone you have known for quite awhile then having sex on the first date could be okay. If you are aware of the risks and you want to go ahead and proceed then I do not think it makes you seem as easy as the other way around.

 

Now, yes it is a double standard that men can have sex on the first date and it is the woman who gets marked trashy, or a booty call, or the guy decides he does not think she is relationship material.

 

By this time, I would think 99.9% of us know full well that just meeting someone, going on a first date, and having sex with them will much more often than not end in the woman being judged. We can all sit around and bicker about how hypocritical that is but it still is not going to change the reaction in the scenario. So, knowing that if a woman does not want to be seen as easy, or trashy or not taken seriously she should really not be sleeping with a guy on the first date when they hardly know eachother, and you still run the risk when it is a guy you have known awhile, I just think the risk is smaller and a little more understandable.

[mr.dream merchant]

Double standards on sexuality would be me looking down on my male friend for sleeping with a woman he just met at the club even though I myself have done/do/will do it. He and I are both males so the playing field is more or less equal in terms of chances, biology, laws of attraction, etc..

 

Same situation but replace me and my friend with women, it'd be a double standard. Same idea.

 

But men and women are not one in the same. And that will always prove to be true, as long as procreation is needed for Human existence. As biology and nature would have it, men and women are different, operate and think differently. So you can't force equality on all aspects of existence between the two genders. Especially the aspect of attraction and sexual acts!

 

Everyone deserves to enjoy fun and safe sex. But don't look down on a guy when he doesn't want to date you because you give your body away, the reasons for that are deeply rooted in biology. Same reasons why women like strong confident men who can make them feel secure. Same reasons why women need reassurance that their boyfriend/husband loves her through vocal expression regardless of how much the boyfriend/husband shows this through actions.

[oldguy]

I am absolutely floored by the level of male hypocrisy in this thread.

It would be laughable if it wasn`t so...sad and misguided.

 

I slept with my wife on our first date 13 years ago.

I will never know a better woman if I live to be 100.

 

I don`t know why sex has to be "meaningful".

can`t it just be "fun"?

 

That is the point; It IS meaningful to some & others it is not. Many of the issues here are when two with differing views on this subject meet.

[Kelemort]

Never. My motto is at least 9 months into an exclusive relationship for sex. To me, it's a very vulnerable thing. If I wind up pregnant, I want to make sure the person I'm with can stay with a person long enough to show signs of commitment (yes - I also use condoms, spermicide and birth control pills every time I have sex. Still better to be safe than sorry).

 

Beyond that, it's emotionally vulnerable for me. I want to get something out of it, rather than just knocking uglies with someone who's just a hot stranger.

 

But I realize that sex differs for different people. Some people are just out for fun. As long as they're protected and responsible, I see no issue. I could never do it just for fun - and dating someone who somewhat views it that way has been a little problematic for me.

[Jazzari]

Sex is very emotional and bonding for me. When the relationship is exclusive and I trust the man, then I am willing to have sex. Not before.

[StoneCold]

I just chimed in here and all I have to say is WHOA

 

I'm stunned by the conclusions of many here when it comes to sex. I mean you can have your own guidelines as to when you feel comfortable having sex....its your body....but the conclusions you all come to about others just because they had sex with YOU (which is wwhat really makes this hilarious) on the first date.

 

First off...How old are you guys?

 

Now....tell me exactly what is it that tells you that because someone "gave it up" fast.....they are bad or not to be in a relationship with???

 

 

on the reciprocal...tell me exactly what is it that tells you that because someone didnt "give it up" fast.....they are good and relationship material???

 

For every point you give me to support your conclusions I can counter you with a substantial reciprocal point that would blow your conclusion out of the water.

 

 

You guys make far too many assumptions and any guy that loses "respect" for a girl for the sole reason of her having sex with THEM (LMAO) on the first date needs to grow up......and that guys...is from another guy

Edited April 28, 2011 by StoneCold

[Darren Taylor]

9 months? Jesus, not many guys are going to wait that long.

 

The first girl I dated didn't have sex with me (or do anything besides kiss) for 6 months and I cheated on her. I'm sorry but it was justified at that point, I was a horny teenager and I needed to get laid.

 

 

No it wasn't justified. You ending the relationship would have been justified and I would have backed you 100%. Your horny teenage self should have dumped her and gone out to get laid afterward, not while you're in a relationship.

[Jazzari]

9 months? Jesus, not many guys are going to wait that long.

 

The first girl I dated didn't have sex with me (or do anything besides kiss) for 6 months and I cheated on her. I'm sorry but it was justified at that point, I was a horny teenager and I needed to get laid.

This is SO bad, but I admit it made me laugh.

[OliveOyl]

Sex is very emotional and bonding for me. When the relationship is exclusive and I trust the man, then I am willing to have sex. Not before.

I probably wouldn't want to be officially exclusive until I had sex, as I want to know that the sex is good enough it's worth becoming exclusive for. (Not specifically just the act, but everything surrounding it too -- the lovemaking in general.) But I'd have to feel that things were heading in the direction of exclusivity. I would not sleep with someone who I knew was multi-dating.

Edited April 28, 2011 by OliveOyl

[alethean]

Never. My motto is at least 9 months into an exclusive relationship for sex. To me, it's a very vulnerable thing. If I wind up pregnant, I want to make sure the person I'm with can stay with a person long enough to show signs of commitment (yes - I also use condoms, spermicide and birth control pills every time I have sex. Still better to be safe than sorry).

 

Beyond that, it's emotionally vulnerable for me. I want to get something out of it, rather than just knocking uglies with someone who's just a hot stranger.

 

But I realize that sex differs for different people. Some people are just out for fun. As long as they're protected and responsible, I see no issue. I could never do it just for fun - and dating someone who somewhat views it that way has been a little problematic for me.

 

9 months? Jesus, not many guys are going to wait that long.

 

The first girl I dated didn't have sex with me (or do anything besides kiss) for 6 months and I cheated on her. I'm sorry but it was justified at that point, I was a horny teenager and I needed to get laid.

 

Looks like it's a weeding process for her then. More power to her.

 

As for your high school problem, you should have just broken up with her but what's done is done. And we were all stupid teenagers once, lol. For me that wasn't so long ago.

[sanskrit]

The only egregious gender double standard that remains in place today is that double standards that affect women negatively and may benefit men are to be roundly condemned as "archaic" or as evidence of some evil patriarchy that unduly restricts and oppresses women, while double standards that affect men negatively and may benefit women are to be ignored, downplayed or especially maintained via some misplaced appeal to "chivalry" or gentility.

 

One very real reason for avoiding loose women when forming lasting, maybe legally binding relationships is the same today as it was millions of years ago and concerns plain genetic imperative. The odds of wasting resources raising another's offspring that don't perpetuate one's own genes is a complete nonissue for females regardless of the level of promiscuity of the men they mate with (in other words, a woman is always sure the child is hers), yet a very real, continuing danger for men who choose to form lasting pair bonds involving long term legal consequences with promiscuous women.

 

Try rationalizing that plain biological fact. Can't wait.

 

Moreover, another reason why men are not being hypocritical in selecting against sexual promiscuity in women despite their own sexual activities is that promiscuity is comorbid with personality disorders at a much higher rate among women than it is among men. Again, a plain fact, and many of us have learned the hard way about the hell of relationships with the personality disordered.

 

Also, as has been well-stated, today, women are free to engage in a normal, active sex life with little social backlash. Despite all the rationalizing, we all know that this normal, if even varied sex life, is NOT the level of promiscuity being discussed here.

 

Also, WOMEN are the harshest judges of other women's promiscuity, not men. The attitude of many men on this issue has been shaped by WOMEN of influence in their lives, a "matriarchy" if you will. So if the double-standard has an origin in one gender over the other, it is the mothers, sisters and grandmothers who have fostered it more than any male influence.

 

Finally, as has been well-stated in the thread, there is little similarity between the vast majority of men and most any woman in the effort involved in seeking and obtaining sex. The average man has little control over which of his efforts to obtain sex will succeed, but he can be absolutely sure that if he does not expend effort in seeking sex, HE WILL GET NONE, not so for women. Apples... oranges. Keep preaching the tired feminist antilogic misguided "double standard" though.

 

To answer the thread topic, I have learned through much harsh experience that dating promiscuous women is a BAD idea for me personally, have often turned down sex "too early" for my comfort level, but might do it sometimes and reserve the right to JUDGE the woman as unsuitable for a sustained relationship for it, especially if "nutty" indicia accompany it, regardless of the fact that I was a willing participant. Apples... oranges.

Edited April 29, 2011 by sanskrit