daphne Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 A day after the first date where I met someone I knew I had a lot in common, I winced when I remembered part of the conversation. I also realized that, unlike almost every other date I'd had prior to then, he didn't ask to see me again before the date ended. I was wondering how that could be, since we had very similar values and goals and there was attraction. A red flag he introduced was that he had just broken up with his fiance, after quite a few years, only 6 weeks ago. He brought this up. And he brought up the gory details. I am a fairly empathetic person, so I didn't mind listening to someone's story. Although I must say I prefer not to hear it on a first date. Regardless, I felt bad for the guy. And I should have stuck to listening. He mentioned that his ex had said he was always traveling for work, and she wasn't getting much attention from him when he was around. He said he thought she was just trying to get ahead at work. The answer is probably somewhere in between teh two. I opened my mouth and said something to the effect, but have you considered how to safe guard against that in the future? It does sound like you work an awful lot. He was gone for 4 months abroad while she was state side for one trip alone. I wasn't suggesting it was his fault. But I know personally, I'm not sure if I would want to have a long term relationship with someone who was gone that much. I'm not a cheater, but I can see how it would happen. That being said, I think I was a little insensitive and I regret it. I am usually a neutral and disarming first date. I avoid argument and if the person has an aggressive or combattive personality I deflect and smile but I won't date the person again. And I feel like I failed the neutrality position that I usually carry to all my dates. He kept repeating "Why should I be alone?" when I asked him if he thought he was ready to date again so soon. Who knows, maybe I was right and he really wasn't ready to date. He hid his profile. Very confusing though. Towards the end of the date when I mentioned there was only 1 other guy I really saw a long term potential with, he said "now 2." If I ticked him off, why would he say that?
SincereOnlineGuy Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I don't think your so-called "mistake" was much of a big deal. MOST CRITICAL in there is that your responses showed you were paying considerable attention TO what he was saying. (and I'm sure you've been at a point in life where you just needed a listener, and to understand that the listener was truly listening, was probably the best news you were capable of discerning at that point) Other than the fact that a mere "6 weeks" after the breaking off of an engagement, he is out there trying the social waters, I don't see anything wrong with what you've expressed here. NOT that he should be forbidden from dating at this point, but you probably should adjust your expectations accordingly. I can see time shared with him where you are just walking and talking... with him trying (still) to process that break-up, and you slowly trying to learn whether there is any long-term potential to him, for you. And who knows how many important clues you might gain from the bits of that engagement story that are bound to keep surfacing. Don't sweat what you said... it was indeed constructive and it addressed the crux of some of his 'flaws'.
Imajerk17 Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 The guy was unsuitable for dating at the moment, and should not have been subjecting you to this. Too bad you found this out only after you met up with him. Hopefully you made out a bill, or at least got a free dinner, for the therapy session you provided.
veggirl Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I don't think what you said is insensitive at all. It is a genuine question! IMO, he is the one who made the "rookie first date mistake"...by a) bringing up his ex and b) going into "gory details" about it! I highly doubt he is ready to date right now anyway. I would've checked out the second he started rambling about an ex fiance from only 6 wks ago.
TuffCookieX Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 If he wants to vent about his previous love life, he should have found a friend or a therapist. Not a new date. You didn't make a rookie first date mistake, HE did. All you were trying to do was offer feedback and some moral support. Honestly, if I went on a date that had a conversation like this, I probably would have excused myself. Maybe I would have even told him to get back in touch with his ex-fiance. It's not something I would want to be involved in. Those turn out to be bad situations. Only six weeks - she's more than likely to contact him again, or vice versa.
2sunny Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 if he's not owning his part in it - and states that he still travels a lot - then why should you date someone who's not around much? IF he's offering little and expecting you to be ok with that - better to know up front that he's not a heavy participant. YOU have choices... and you should be honest by speaking your truth... If you want more, he should know that... nothing wrong in what you said. i see more wrong in NOT saying what will or won't work for you. IF he's offended by you speaking your truth - good - now you know not to waste your time trying to make it work by pretending. pretending to be happy when you're short changing yourself is not healthy for you - or him. IF he's gone alot and you don't mind that - tell him you are ok with a man not being around much.
Mutant Debutante Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 A day after <snip>... I winced when I remembered part of the conversation. Oh, man, I HATE that. The little realization, the little epiphany, that you stuck your foot in your mouth, way after the fact. Sometimes it keeps me up at night, feeling like an idiot. That being said, I don't think your foot was actually in your mouth. I 100% agree with veggirl's post below. I don't think what you said is insensitive at all. It is a genuine question! IMO, he is the one who made the "rookie first date mistake"...by a) bringing up his ex and b) going into "gory details" about it! I highly doubt he is ready to date right now anyway. I would've checked out the second he started rambling about an ex fiance from only 6 wks ago.
Sivok Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 The #1 taboo of first dates is whining about your ex. Think about it. If he was willing to whine to you about his ex on your first date, expect to hear alot more about it in the future. She's clearly not off his mind at all, that alone should've told you he isn't ready to date yet. It isn't you who should be worried about him contacting you again, I'm surprised you weren't the one hiding his profile and crossing out his number. Sure you two had sparks, but the right person at the wrong time is still the wrong person, Daph
Gala Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Daphne - You did nothing wrong. Honestly, dating six weeks after a broken engagement sounds pretty effing selfish. "Why should I be alone?" Please. I understand what you mean about maintaining neutrality, but in agreement with some of the other posters here I think it's more important and valuable for you to sound out where he's coming from. I went out on a date last year with a guy who began talking about his ex, and at the first level it didn't sound too out of line. But without my asking, at one point he said "I met her at my sister's wedding." One of my friends later paraphrased this as "I'm going to go cry now." He had been broken up with her for almost a year, and I think it was probably the first time he hadn't been able to shake a breakup and move on. At six weeks, your date most likely has a long way to go.
welikeincrowds Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 One of my friends later paraphrased this as "I'm going to go cry now." At six weeks, your date most likely has a long way to go. I cannot stress this enough. "Don't mention your ex" is a dating rule for a reason. It's because people who mention their exes at length (or at all) on a first date are at a point where they're just too self-centered (and understandably so) to do the kind of selfless listening, appreciating, and giving required for even the most basic relationship. I mean, just think about that phrase. "Why should I be alone?" I mean, that's... ****! For so many reasons, that's a selfish horse**** thing to say to a potential date. "Maybe 6 weeks is enough for guy X." You can do what I've done about a million times, and ignore this red flag of red flags, the archetypal red flag for which the phrase "red flag" was probably invented. If you do, I hope you have more luck than I have.
Author daphne Posted April 9, 2011 Author Posted April 9, 2011 Don't sweat what you said... it was indeed constructive and it addressed the crux of some of his 'flaws'. Sincere - Thanks. Very insightful and I hadn't thought about it like that. I'm sure that whomever he gushes this story to again may not receive it as well or care. Who knows. Maybe he views online dating as therapy. I see his long term potential as rather limited at the moment. Sucks, because we do think quite a bit alike and have very similar values and shared experiences. But I guess you can find that anywhere. lol The guy was unsuitable for dating at the moment, and should not have been subjecting you to this. Too bad you found this out only after you met up with him. Hopefully you made out a bill, or at least got a free dinner, for the therapy session you provided. Hear hear! At least I don't have to feel guilty about the free meal. I don't think what you said is insensitive at all. It is a genuine question! IMO, he is the one who made the "rookie first date mistake"...by a) bringing up his ex and b) going into "gory details" about it! I highly doubt he is ready to date right now anyway. I would've checked out the second he started rambling about an ex fiance from only 6 wks ago. Yes he did! Very true. Honestly, if I went on a date that had a conversation like this, I probably would have excused myself. Maybe I would have even told him to get back in touch with his ex-fiance. It's not something I would want to be involved in. Those turn out to be bad situations. Only six weeks - she's more than likely to contact him again, or vice versa. They were actually still talking, apparently. Honestly, if it happens again I think I will politely excuse myself. I'm not looking to heal anyone from a past breakup, divorce, death of a spouse situation. I'm not Mother Theresa. I need something in return for any love and affection I'm offering.
Author daphne Posted April 9, 2011 Author Posted April 9, 2011 if he's not owning his part in it - and states that he still travels a lot - then why should you date someone who's not around much? IF he's offering little and expecting you to be ok with that - better to know up front that he's not a heavy participant. YOU have choices... and you should be honest by speaking your truth... If you want more, he should know that... nothing wrong in what you said. i see more wrong in NOT saying what will or won't work for you. IF he's offended by you speaking your truth - good - now you know not to waste your time trying to make it work by pretending. pretending to be happy when you're short changing yourself is not healthy for you - or him. Another great post. Actually, lots of travel is a deal breaker for me. I was trying to get to the crux of how much he actually travels but he tap danced around it. I'm sure he realized I was trying to find out from my comment that women need time and attention. And you're right. Although I try to be neutral when I meet people, sometimes there are non negotiables that you have to say to avoid wasting anyone's time. Non negotiable is dating a guy that's never around. Oh, man, I HATE that. The little realization, the little epiphany, that you stuck your foot in your mouth, way after the fact. Sometimes it keeps me up at night, feeling like an idiot. Ugh. Yeah. Even if it's a friend or a coworker, it can still smart to know you unintentionally may have caused someone pain. The #1 taboo of first dates is whining about your ex. Think about it. If he was willing to whine to you about his ex on your first date, expect to hear alot more about it in the future. She's clearly not off his mind at all, that alone should've told you he isn't ready to date yet. It isn't you who should be worried about him contacting you again, I'm surprised you weren't the one hiding his profile and crossing out his number. Sure you two had sparks, but the right person at the wrong time is still the wrong person, Daph Much truth spoken. I'm surprised myself. Had it not been for very similar mindsets in other areas and extremely compatible values (he actually has good ones!!), I would have walked away from the date thinking "now that was a waste of 2 hours of prep." Daphne - You did nothing wrong. Honestly, dating six weeks after a broken engagement sounds pretty effing selfish. "Why should I be alone?" Please. I understand what you mean about maintaining neutrality, but in agreement with some of the other posters here I think it's more important and valuable for you to sound out where he's coming from. I went out on a date last year with a guy who began talking about his ex, and at the first level it didn't sound too out of line. But without my asking, at one point he said "I met her at my sister's wedding." One of my friends later paraphrased this as "I'm going to go cry now." He had been broken up with her for almost a year, and I think it was probably the first time he hadn't been able to shake a breakup and move on. At six weeks, your date most likely has a long way to go. Yes. I think there's something very selfish about a guy who wants someone to heal his loneliness. What does he have to offer? This is why I had to wistfully say goodbye to widower#1 2 years ago. He looked awesome on paper. Tall, good looking, age appropriate, same tax bracket, similar taste in just about everything. But his wife had passed 3 months prior. When I asked him what he was looking for, he said "I'd just like to wake up in the morning and be happy again." I'm thinking, that's selfish. I guess that would be my job. To make you happy again. I cannot stress this enough. "Don't mention your ex" is a dating rule for a reason. It's because people who mention their exes at length (or at all) on a first date are at a point where they're just too self-centered (and understandably so) to do the kind of selfless listening, appreciating, and giving required for even the most basic relationship. I mean, just think about that phrase. "Why should I be alone?" I mean, that's... ****! For so many reasons, that's a selfish horse**** thing to say to a potential date. "Maybe 6 weeks is enough for guy X." You can do what I've done about a million times, and ignore this red flag of red flags, the archetypal red flag for which the phrase "red flag" was probably invented. If you do, I hope you have more luck than I have. Selfish horse **** thing... yes it is. I will admit that my eyes got kinda big when he said it. I was asking myself "did he really just say that? Does he really feel entitled to have someone stop him from feeling loneliness like we all feel?" I think he's kidding himself when he thinks he's immune to the feelings that we ALL invariably go through in healing from a breakup, especially one where there's betrayal. Or perhaps he felt defensive and wanted to "prove" that he's fine and ready to date. Dunno. Thanks all for some really great insight. I guess I took it all on myself, but he could have handled things differently. Or maybe at this point he doesn't know how, but it's clear my intentions weren't to make him feel bad. Otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted my time listening to his long story. I can say after this experience I'm sure I'll never bring an ex up early on. Otherwise I'd be back on here posting the story of how embarrassed I was to make some poor soul sit there and listen to my emotional hemorrhaging.
Intricategirl Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 They were actually still talking, apparently. Honestly, if it happens again I think I will politely excuse myself. I'm not looking to heal anyone from a past breakup, divorce, death of a spouse situation. I'm not Mother Theresa. I need something in return for any love and affection I'm offering. You're going out with him again? I wouldn't. He made the dating mistake of going out too soon after a breakup. But you're taking the blame upon yourself. Forgivable once, but why repeat it? The only thing I think you did wrong (and that's a heck of a judgment call) is where you said, "Towards the end of the date when I mentioned there was only 1 other guy I really saw a long term potential with, he said "'now 2.'" That's not something he needs to know. Here's my reasons. Either he's worth continuing to see, or he's not. The process of dating is to find out whether you share the same values and are compatible over a long period of time. And that has nothing to do with any other guy you're seeing. Furthermore, it's not something that can be determined after one date (especially where he's still deciding it based on the LAST girl he was with). But this, in its nicest way possible, comes across as "I'm dating quite a few other guys for the company or dinner or whatever, and I'll give you another chance to step up your game, but I'm kind of making deeper value assessments about someone else right now." I guess an easier way of phrasing it is that it's like playing poker, and you're showing him you have a full house. It can be beat if he plays his cards right, but it's definitely going to influence the way he plays them BECAUSE you showed him.
Author daphne Posted April 9, 2011 Author Posted April 9, 2011 Hi Intricate, Actually, I meant in the future with someone else. He hasn't called and I'm not interested in a relationship with him. Honestly, I wouldn't mind being his friend because he's a decent guy but guys NEVER go for that when I suggest it. As for the other, I don't think I was clear. I meant that, in all of my time online, there was one guy that really floated my boat & was serious long term potential. Not that he was around now. At least I think I was clear with him. Now I wonder if he thought the same thing too. But you are right in that I should not be showing my hand. Another rookie mistake! And I'm a poker player. I sure hope I don't come across as someone who's just in this for the dinners. I can pay for my own dinner and honestly, dating with no real return seems like a huge waste of time that I could be spending doing something fun with my friends or playing tennis.
Intricategirl Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 Daphne, no. You don't seem that way. There are people that I get that vibe from, and you are NOT one of them. He's just too fresh out of this. And it's not your mistake, but his. If you guys had met 2 years from now, maybe it would have been awesome. Maybe not. There's no way of knowing.
Thedude22 Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 He kept repeating "Why should I be alone?" when I asked him if he thought he was ready to date again so soon. Who knows, maybe I was right and he really wasn't ready to date. He hid his profile. What mistake did you make? The guy is a ****ing weirdo sounds like. Honestly, the only times I really make dating mistakes is when the other person is making titanic dating mistakes. Sometimes you have to just realize, it's not your fault, this person sucks and you were just doing the best you could with such awful date material.
Cee Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 This is what sucks about online dating. If you had met him at a party, you would have known in 5 minutes that he's not available for dating. He made a foolish choice by joining the dating site and I'm glad he realized that. Sorry you had your time wasted and you had to listen to a total stranger's woe.
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