A more fully developed guilt

[TinaniT]

I alluded to this in another thread that has since disappeared. It's been on my mind a while but I thought I would post it now that I have some time (not that sitting in government offices to submit name change paperwork isn't the most entertaining ever!)

 

I don't so much need help as I have discussed it a lot in counseling and my husband is a wonderful help.

 

However, a couple of things in reflection have been on my mind. My husband's ex, I have been talking to more. Granted, we have clashed... She has severe depression on and off that have informed decisions those of you who have read my story have seen (suicide attempt, the OM, the choices aroudn the children etc) I've come to realize she is a lot more impressive of a woman than I realized, however. She struggles with this disorder that is hard for me to come to grips with but when she is not in the hand of it she shows amazing strength and grace. I am freaked out about who my ex might bring into my son's life in the future (because I don't trust his decisions) but she has been steadfast in despite how I came in their life in being kind to me, we probably talk more than him and her, and in making sure her children are not downgraded for developing a relationship with me or making them feel like they have to pick sides.

This has lead to increased guilt on my side... though husband did try to get her help for a long time before leaving (she didn't until she attempted suicide, rock bottom I guess) and said that the depression isn't why he didn't love her and that he would have left even if he had never met me, or if I had not agreed to be with him, maybe just a few years later.

 

The other thing that has been having impact... In my social circle when I met my husband, infidelity was fairly common. Several of my female friends were OW who had become wives. I also knew an OW and who nothing came of it. The few others did not engage but did not judge. It simply was not looked down upon. Most my friends were not females, but were men - and we talked about things going on but not in the same personal level females do. We talked largely about training and politics, etc. People I knew would be there or me, but when you are training with men it's just different. This all was largely intentional, as I did not want people to recognize the abusive relationship I was in and get involved. Lack of complete judgment when I was too scared to change.

I did feel guilt. If you look at my earlier posts, I talked about it. I thought of ending it at one point for the guilt. But that guilt was somewhat of a shallow guilt, uninformed of its true impact.

Months ago, as a result in change in circumstances, my social circle has changed. I have become very close with a group of (married, mostly stay at home moms) women. Seeing them and their husbands has given true level to the impact of infidelity. None of them have, to my knowledge, touched infidelity on any side. However, there have been discussions on things I formally would have judged in my old social circle (change in sex life, such as no oral sex). I know these women. They are intelligent, beautiful, work hard to keep fit. (Met most through a triathlon training group, others through my new gym). I know how they sacrifice for their husbands and children. I know they give and give to keep their families going, sometimes when their husbands are gone for extensive periods for work. Thinking of their husbands possibly doing this to them, and it causes me great pain. They do not speak well of infidelity when it has come up. They do not speak in a bitter or even a harsh judgmental way, but more of a place of understanding.

 

Anyways, as I approached my marriage, though there was tons of happiness, of course, there was also a new level of guilt I had to discuss with my psychologist. Guilt I thought I had understood and come to terms with earlier. I doubt it will be the end of it yet. I'm sure as I reach 20 years of marriage it will be another level of understanding, as I had not been married that long and I had never thought my marriage with an abusive man was happy.

 

 

I would not change being with my wonderful husband. He treats me better than I knew possible. He loves me completely, and has attended counseling to address his own guilt over his actions and the demise of his marriage. We have a strong foundation that we fortified in the couples counseling to ensure the fates of our previous marriages were not replicated. He is strong and honest and giving and devoted. He is the best man I know, and I have no other words for the complete happiness and peace he brings me or the level of openness and connection we share. I know that in adult life, all relationships have other impacts, because we all have developed PASTS.

 

However, my point is, I think I had the best of possible scenarios in that, I had a man who did truly love me, and whom I truly loved... We both were and are willing to put in the work to improve ourselves and our relationship. We have resources enough to make sure that could never be an issue. His children are good kids who have accepted me warmly, and my son loves him. I am truly in a blessed place with a lovely family, home, and friends; a place I have not been before.

AND still, as I approached my marriage there was more understanding to be had and guilt to be dealt with to ensure I was ready and sure of the next step, even with no doubt in the amount of love and happiness we felt together... instead of focusing solely on the happy.

 

This is long and maybe made no sense... but I needed to express it. I just thought... maybe it could help someone else. If not, feel free to shake your head and ignore.

 

(Incidentally, I got confused for a high school student the other day in looks, despite being in my 20's; I only hope I don't come across that way when expressing myself too. Somehow, I wouldn't doubt it though!)

 

 

ETA : I am not trying to express how anyone else does feel or should feel or imply they do not understand... just expressing for MYSELF in case there is anyone who CAN identify with it and it can help, and to present a full picture of everything... it could have no reflection on anyone else but me)

Edited April 5, 2011 by TinaniT

[jthorne]

Ok, I'm not being snarky or bashy here, but I think it's good that you have guilt, you should have some. I'd be more worried if you didn't have some.

 

The question is, what are you going to do about it? What ways can you take the negative and turn it into a positive?

[TinaniT]

Ok, I'm not being snarky or bashy here, but I think it's good that you have guilt, you should have some. I'd be more worried if you didn't have some.

 

The question is, what are you going to do about it? What ways can you take the negative and turn it into a positive?

 

Is there something else you can suggest?

[greengoddess]

Well that was a refreshing post to read. Not that you have guilt but the honesty you were willing to put out there.

 

Now that you are the wife in a happy marraige and are seeing other happy well adjusted family's you are finally realizing the devastation of infidelity. I guess it was a hard thing to view when you were in a miserable marriage with abuse and surrounded by jerks who cheated.

 

I wish you luck and I think it is great you are examing this and your feelings now. You truly are taking the married woman role on now.

 

It's nice his exwife is making this easier on everyone. it should help the dynamics of your marriage. Don't be fooled though. You are not friends. Do not ever think that or confide in her.

[spice4life]

Nice post and warmest wishes for your marriage. Thanks for pointing out that even though there is happiness, there are still some residual emotions that need to be dealt with.

[jthorne]

Is there something else you can suggest?

I never would have been able to get past the guilt, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. My instinct is to tell you to make amends the best that you can, learn from the situation, and most importantly, do your very best to make sure your children are well-adjusted. Become better people and even better role models in spite of the situaton. IME, most couples don't do the work to figure out why they got where they did, so one or both of them eventually repeats the same behavior.

 

May I ask what your therapist suggested if anything?

[TinaniT]

I never would have been able to get past the guilt, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. My instinct is to tell you to make amends the best that you can, learn from the situation, and most importantly, do your very best to make sure your children are well-adjusted. Become better people and even better role models in spite of the situaton. IME, most couples don't do the work to figure out why they got where they did, so one or both of them eventually repeats the same behavior.

 

May I ask what your therapist suggested if anything?

 

No concrete actions; though I'm not sure if I understand what you are referring to. There is a lot of talking. My husband and I did lots of little exercises in couples counseling... pretty standard stuff though, I think. There is lots of introspection required, which may allude to the other things you referred to.

[TinaniT]

Thanks for pointing out that even though there is happiness, there are still some residual emotions that need to be dealt with.

 

That is a much more concise way of putting it; Thank you.

[TinaniT]

but the honesty you were willing to put out there.

 

Figured I could share that if nothing else. The guilt doesn't mean much at this point except in that I have to work through it, but I thought the honesty might help others of what it is possible to feel even with "happily ever after."

 

Thanks for the advice. I don't think her or I think we are friends; but we both have the same goal in that her children, my stepchildren, are happy and thriving.

[2sunny]

No concrete actions; though I'm not sure if I understand what you are referring to. There is a lot of talking. My husband and I did lots of little exercises in couples counseling... pretty standard stuff though, I think. There is lots of introspection required, which may allude to the other things you referred to.

 

words are empty and meaningless without action...

 

what are YOU doing to set things right? this has nothing to do with how you feel - it only has to do with what corrective measures you take with your actions.

 

change is a very good thing... to never BE THAT person again is key. what are you willing to do in order to be sure you are never THAT person - ever again?

[2sunny]

your writing style is very evasive and seems to avoid specifics - especially owning YOUR PART in it all... is this the way you are in real life too?

[TinaniT]

words are empty and meaningless without action...

 

what are YOU doing to set things right? this has nothing to do with how you feel - it only has to do with what corrective measures you take with your actions.

 

change is a very good thing... to never BE THAT person again is key. what are you willing to do in order to be sure you are never THAT person - ever again?

 

I suppose I have the same question as with Jthorne - what else do you suggest?

 

 

 

 

I would not be an OW again. Not as a judgment to current, past, or future OW (that would be exceedingly hypocritical in any case), but with how I feel now and what I have seen, I could not, even if I was not now married - and I am. Nothing could ever bring me to betray my husband, ever.

 

I'm not just the person I was before. But if you have concrete suggestions of what action I am supposed to take, I am interested in hearing.

[TinaniT]

your writing style is very evasive and seems to avoid specifics - especially owning YOUR PART in it all... is this the way you are in real life too?

 

How do you mean?

 

 

I would suppose that who I am here is who I am "in real life" too.

I understand that my reactions may not be what someone else would expect or demand. However, they are mine the best I can express them, and I am not (obviously) a perfect person.

Edited April 5, 2011 by TinaniT

[2sunny]

How do you mean?

 

 

I would suppose that who I am here is who I am "in real life" too.

I understand that my reactions may not be what someone else would expect or demand. However, they are mine the best I can express them, and I am not (obviously) a perfect person.

 

it wasn't a judgment - only an observation from your written words. and i DO understand that most people write the same as they LIVE their life.

 

so in order to BE more effective. simply start using as few words as possible and be precise with your words.

 

act accordingly. precisely as YOU INTEND.

 

being specific and precise makes things clear and simple. are you capable of that?

[2sunny]

and guilt is just that nagging feeling that you should be DOING more to correct your past behavior.

 

so what are you willing to change to get rid of the guilt? actions are key.

[TinaniT]

it wasn't a judgment - only an observation from your written words. and i DO understand that most people write the same as they LIVE their life.

 

so in order to BE more effective. simply start using as few words as possible and be precise with your words.

 

act accordingly. precisely as YOU INTEND.

 

being specific and precise makes things clear and simple. are you capable of that?

 

Hmm. I'm not sure I understand you.

[Spark1111]

I think your post shows huge growth personally.

 

There is guilt which is often a knee-jerk reaction to having been caught and realizing you caused someone pain. You feel badly, you feel some shame, you wish wistfully it hadn't happened; you justify to a degree, that it wasn't completely your fault. Things happen, sorta attitude.

 

Then there is remorse when you truly empathize with the pain you have caused others; you feel it on a deeper level of understanding. Your eyes open to the other side of the triangle in a way you never did before, because now you are meeting married people you admire and respect who are sacrificing for others. You now have better understanding of what it may feel like to be betrayed by someone you love. You vow to never cheat on your H; to work hard to stay committed to each other.

 

You have also established a respectful relationship with your H's xW, and have realized that no one person is all good, or all bad. That while he may have fallen out of love with her, you can see the positive aspects of why he did fall in love with her to begin with.

 

I am happy that your life is good, and that you are gaining wisdom!