iris219 Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 What do you mean as seeing a woman as a sexual object? Why would I think about what a woman in a porn film is like in real life? The majority of the time I don't do this with men or women in TV shows or films. I think most people are like this. I would think it's wrong that you take power away from men. Whether you get turned on or not wouldn't make any difference. Men who watch porn don't think of all women in an entirely sexual manner and no other way all of the time. There are no similarities between being in porn and being a legitimate actor, other than they are both filmed. Having sex on camera is VERY different from making a film, and while I've never done either, doing porn has to be emotionally taxing in a way doing mainstream film and TV is not. Think about the lives of the women in the porn you watch. For some of them (not all), it was a last resort after a long list of tragic life events. How can you not think about this? The women in porn are real women. They are not digitally created. They are thinking, feeling human beings. You admitted that you don't see a reason to consider this fact while watching porn, and I think that's one of the things that is disturbing about porn. I agree with you--it would be wrong to take power away from men for my own pleasure or otherwise. Porn does this to women.
Ross PK Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) There are no similarities between being in porn and being a legitimate actor, other than they are both filmed. Having sex on camera is VERY different from making a film, and while I've never done either, doing porn has to be emotionally taxing in a way doing mainstream film and TV is not. Some women wont find it emotionally taxing, some actors who do TV shows or films will find what they do emotionally taxing. At the end of the day they're grown adults and have made the decision to do what they do. Think about the lives of the women in the porn you watch. For some of them (not all), it was a last resort after a long list of tragic life events. How can you not think about this? Why am I supposed to think about that when I'm watching porn? I don't think about the starving children in Africa when I eat for pleasure. Are we all really bad people because we don't think of starving children in Africa everytime we eat just for pleasure? Thinking about them will not help them. The women in porn are real women. They are not digitally created. They are thinking, feeling human beings. You admitted that you don't see a reason to consider this fact while watching porn, and I think that's one of the things that is disturbing about porn. Um, of course I know they're human beings. I still do not understand why you think it's disturbing that I'm not sat there thinking about what their personalities are like and what their goals are in life. Do you think guys do that when they're having sex with a woman? If a guy was having sex with you, would you not want him to enjoy your body and see you as physically sexually attractive? Or would you rather him not do that and just think about what your thoughts and feelings were like that day? I agree with you--it would be wrong to take power away from men for my own pleasure or otherwise. Porn does this to women. How exactly does it take power away from women? I can certainly see that it takes some of the power women in general have over men, but that is a good thing. When you use a dildo, which is basically an objectification of men because it is a fake dismembered male penis, do you think of the poor guy in the factory who helped make it, slaving away and feeling unhappy in his low paying job, I mean, he could be struggling to pay the bills, he may even be close to facing eviction. I find the fact that you don't think of these things when you're using a dildo highly disturbing, and is an indicator that you could very well be dangerous to men. In all seriousness Iris, you're making a mountain out of nothing. Edited April 5, 2011 by Ross PK
iris219 Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Ross PK-- Your starving children in Africa and dildo factory example (which I loved, by the way) aren't comparable to watching porn. Your example of me and a man I know having sex and you masturbating to porn is not comparable. This man would view me as more than a sexual object in our daily lives together, whereas you never view the porn actresses as more than sexual objects. You directly support porn by watching/buying it. You don't directly support making children starve by eating. If you did, that would be wrong. If you knew that by eating a certain cupcake, a child was going to starve, but you ate it anyway, you would be wrong. Objectification is wrong, period. You can't convince me it's not. You can only convince yourself it's OK. I'm not trying to make it seem like I think you're a bad person. You share a common viewpoint with many other people. I happen to not agree with it.
d'Arthez Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) You directly support porn by watching/buying it. You don't directly support making children starve by eating. If you did, that would be wrong. If you knew that by eating a certain cupcake, a child was going to starve, but you ate it anyway, you would be wrong. That is not entirely true. 10 grammes of beef cost 1 kg of wheat to produce. Most poor countries have a shortage of wheat, and the (over)production of beef certainly drives the prices of wheat and other primary foods up. Thus the fact that you enjoy a steak as opposed to not eating steak, may well deprive children of food. Got to love capitalism. Edited April 5, 2011 by d'Arthez
Ross PK Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Ross PK-- Your starving children in Africa and dildo factory example (which I loved, by the way) aren't comparable to watching porn. Your example of me and a man I know having sex and you masturbating to porn is not comparable. This man would view me as more than a sexual object in our daily lives together, whereas you never view the porn actresses as more than sexual objects. Of course they are comparable. And of course I'm not going to view the porn actresses in any other way other than sexual, since I do not know them, Why is that so bad? That is the whole point of porn, they have chosen to be there to be viewed in that way for **** loads of money. You directly support porn by watching/buying it. You don't directly support making children starve by eating. If you did, that would be wrong. If you knew that by eating a certain cupcake, a child was going to starve, but you ate it anyway, you would be wrong. I don't buy it and I just look at porn that is for free, so therefore I'm not supporting it, but so what if I was. Are you saying that grown adult women are helpless creatures who aren't capable of making their own decisions, like whether they want to do porn for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are you saying women are still like children, are you saying women are less mentally capable than men? I think a lot of women would be feel insulted and condescended by what you're saying. Objectification is wrong, period. The next time you have sex, wear a burka so he can't see your body then, and tell your SO he has to think of your mind while he's having sex with you. Otherwise, he'll be seeing you as a sex object. Am I not right? You can't convince me it's not. You can only convince yourself it's OK. I've never had to convince myself it's okay. I know it's okay. Although I prefer to not to describe looking at porn or having sex as treating those women as 'sex objects' as it's a negative phrase, as though enjoying a woman in a sexual way and not thinking about what her personality is like at that particular time is bad. Which it obviously isn't, and to say it is does not make any sense at all. I'm not trying to make it seem like I think you're a bad person. You share a common viewpoint with many other people. I happen to not agree with it. Fair enough. I have a question, do you not want guys to see you as physically sexually attractive? If you do want to be seen like that by guys, are you okay with them not thinking about your mind while they're looking at you? Because here's a shock for you. When a guy is looking at a woman who he finds hot, he's not wondering what her goals in life are. Edited April 5, 2011 by Ross PK
zengirl Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Max Hardcore is pure scum but Hugh Hefner does not strike me as somebody that abuses women. I concur. And, actually, I don't see any issues with Playboy. To me, pictures of women scantily clad or naked that are meant to titilate are way less gross than video porn where people actually had sex for money to make it. I mean, that whole idea and industry is kind of gross and even though I'm cool with someone watching it occasionally, it still seems sad. Playboy just never seems as sad to me. I mean, half the ones I've seen, they're only slightly more naked than the fashion magazines.
ChessPieceFace Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I would say that in my case my husband's porn adventures completely replaced all intimacy in our relationship and caused him to let me know how inadequate I was compared to the images. Those images turned what I saved myself for 4 years to give to him into something that could be found in a plastic box with a wireless connection at McDonald's. And something that apparently worked better. If you see in another thread reinforcing an unmonogamous sexual template using 18 year old women who were selected specifically for their physical assets leaves a wife very little to work with. I am not 18, I do not have the figures and surgically altered wonders that they provide, nor am I going to be 18 and have those surgically-altered wonders anytime soon. The porn industry knows exactly what it is doing by providing images that are visually altered to its users. It is hooking them and by the masses. It also doesn't care if you lose your family or get a divorce because of it, because then you are more likely to spend your time, money and effort viewing more porn. Some men grow to love their porn more then their girlfriends and wives, this comes up often when you see a wife ask her husband to give up porn and he flat-out refuses despite the fact that it sometimes obliterates her self-esteem when he turns his primary attention to it. How many wives need to come on these boards complaining of sexless marriages and how many guys need to come on here saying that now they "don't need a woman because they have porn?" How many until people are willing to get that there is a problem? You have a biased and inflexible viewpoint. I don't know what you look like, but I, just like most other people could stand improvement in terms of their looks. Saying "I'll never look like the porn stars and it's their fault" is a cop-out. If you are really in the best possible shape and do your best to look sexy, then you would have a point. I would wager that that is not the case. Again, I and most other people are not in the best possible shape and can't claim it's all someone else's fault when they can't compete. If your husband was completely delving into porn and ignoring you, I also have to believe that at least some of that fault rests with you. If all he really wanted in life was porn, he would have just sat on his computer and watched porn and never gotten involved with anyone. He walked down the aisle with you and committed himself to you. Since then, things went wrong in your marriage. I simply don't believe all of the blame rests on him and the porn industry. Sounds like another cop-out. Asking a man to give up porn entirely is naive, unfair and completely insensitive. It's similar to people on here who hear about someone's problems in a relationship, and their advice is "kick him to the curb! it's not worth it! find someone better!" etc. Real easy for them to give that advice since they aren't losing anything. Same with you. You see porn as the enemy, you don't care about his needs and only care about your own. You don't want to work out something more reasonable, or try to maybe get him professional help if he has an actual addiction, etc. Just "don't do that, I don't like it." Selfish. Typical western female behavior. I do agree that porn can become a big problem and is a serious issue to address, and for some may be an addiction which needs intervention. I don't agree with your puritan mindset. Are you overweight? How about if he gives up porn 100%, then you can only eat vegetables. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Seriously.
White Flower Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Some guys are really and truly addicted... and it's a big problem. I think more often it isn't an addiction... It is a way to take care of a need that the Wife or GF has made beyond tiresome. I've personally been in the situation where sex is such a pain in the @ss... I'd rather masturbate. Which sucks because it simply doesn't feel as good. With porn there is no pressure, no judging your "skills", no requirement to perform, no requirement for foreplay. Sometimes all these things are great... sometimes just too tiring. I think some women struggle to understand that because sex is a much more passive act for them. Untouchable Fire, If I remember correctly you are a male? I MUST disagree with your last statement. And I must say you've taken up with the wrong women!!! (((((Untouchable Fire)))))
dreamingoftigers Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Untouchable Fire, If I remember correctly you are a male? I MUST disagree with your last statement. And I must say you've taken up with the wrong women!!! (((((Untouchable Fire))))) Wow, no kidding. Maybe I am too young but I don't understand how people can have a sexual encounter and not climax. How does that happen? Like do you just get bored and stop?
Ross PK Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Wow, no kidding. Maybe I am too young but I don't understand how people can have a sexual encounter and not climax. How does that happen? Like do you just get bored and stop? Lol!
BeginAgain Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Wow, no kidding. Maybe I am too young but I don't understand how people can have a sexual encounter and not climax. How does that happen? Like do you just get bored and stop? If this is in regards to a female I could understand it, but if it is about a male I would have a harder time believing it. That's unless he wasn't allowed to finish or his attraction to the woman wasn't great enough to raise his arousal high enough to climax.
Author Woggle Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 One thing I don't get is why are porn and strip clubs so wrong but women who have affairs are cheered on for beating men at their own game? I understand where some women are coming from when it comes to porn but until women who cheat are no longer cheered on by other women I don't want to hear it. I know not all women think this way but I hear it enough to make me roll my eyes at the anti-porn people.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 MOst likely it is cheating women and those that cheer them on that are okay with porn. Or the cheating women are anti-porn to exert some kind of control. As for us that don't cheat we are on a spectrum too we either don't want it to be a part of our relationship so that we can have unobstructed intimacy or we figure we have to allow it so that our guys don't bang everything that moves. Either way the "porn-anti-porn" people are on a spectrum. Including some cheating women that use it to fuel their fantasies and exploits and women who are otherwise faithful and consider themselves to be using it for some variety.
zengirl Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 One thing I don't get is why are porn and strip clubs so wrong but women who have affairs are cheered on for beating men at their own game? I understand where some women are coming from when it comes to porn but until women who cheat are no longer cheered on by other women I don't want to hear it. I know not all women think this way but I hear it enough to make me roll my eyes at the anti-porn people. If THE SAME woman says "Hey, cheating on your husband --- Woo! You go girl!" and then turns to her husband and says, "Stop watching porn -- that's practically cheating on me" then I agree. Most likely, these are not actions perpetuated by the same woman, but occasionally you get a crazy person. Happens.
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