Untouchable_Fire Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Woggle, I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread but will share a quick story with you before I go. I have no problem with porn. Sometimes it gets me in the mood. But my friend's exH was addicted to it and she felt betrayed by it. Sometimes he would come to bed late and she would think, great, we finally get to be alone and make love. But he'd be spent because he just jacked off to porn downstairs and had nothing left for her. In a very real sense, porn was his OW. They D'd. As long as porn doesn't replace the person you love nor hinders your intimate time with them, I don't see a problem with it. Some guys are really and truly addicted... and it's a big problem. I think more often it isn't an addiction... It is a way to take care of a need that the Wife or GF has made beyond tiresome. I've personally been in the situation where sex is such a pain in the @ss... I'd rather masturbate. Which sucks because it simply doesn't feel as good. With porn there is no pressure, no judging your "skills", no requirement to perform, no requirement for foreplay. Sometimes all these things are great... sometimes just too tiring. I think some women struggle to understand that because sex is a much more passive act for them.
fishtaco Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 A man viewing porn is okay. When the porn takes the place of relationship intimacy its not okay. Sort of like beer. Drinking some beer is okay. Drinking to the point where you are ****ing drunk all the time and it's affecting your relationship is not okay. I like this. Porn is like alcohol consumption. Excellent analogy. But the anti-porn people will be anti porn anyway. Just like some people strongly believe this world should be completely alcohol free. How can you reason with people like that? You can't. So I'm pretty tired of this debate. The fact is, whether we like it or not, porn is here to stay. So is alcohol. Too bad, so sad, have a good day. As with anything else, don't date people you don't see eye-to-eye with. Anti-porn folks, please stay on your side of the line, and I will GLADLY stay on my side.
orangelady Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 some aspects of porn is okay but some of it makes me feel quite sick and think "How could humans do that to each other?"
LittleTiger Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 However porn hasn't seemed to cause any issues yet. I accept my girlfriend for her faults, and she always turns me on. However I do find I have trouble orgasming sometimes, which I don't like I enjoy kisses and cuddles even more than sex sometimes. However looking back on everything, perhaps porn did influence me in subconscious ways without me even noticing? I realised that all the girls I'd ever been attracted to were the very thin waif ones. My girlfriend is only 90 pounds and her body looks like that of a porn star (but her boobs are small). Food for thought I guess. Porn hasn't seemed to cause you any issues yet? This is your first girlfriend and you believe she has faults (though thankfully ones that you accept her for)? Please tell me what/who you are measuring her against to come up with this conclusion? You can be absolutely certain that porn has influenced you in subconscious ways without you even noticing - you didn't even notice (and sadly neither has anyone else yet) how your comment demeans your girlfriend. You're young and I have no wish to make you feel bad. I'm just pointing out how strongly influenced you and other young men your age have been. All of us are perfect, unique human beings. I have absolutely no idea what your girlfriend looks like but I can assure you she has no physical 'faults'. This is just one reason why some women have such an issue with porn. On top of that, most porn degrades women and shows them merely as vehicles for men's sexual release. When I was younger I had no issue with it at all and even watched it myself occasionally. Nowadays, the whole industry appalls me. I understand why men use it and I have no objection to my own partner looking at beautiful photographs of naked women (I like them myself), but when very young men start measuring real young women against porn stars and expecting, or even hoping/wishing, their partners will behave the same way, something is very, very wrong.
BeginAgain Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Women want a man's interest and attentiveness. If you look at porn you are depriving her of what she wants from a man the most. She wants you to only care about her. She wants herself to be the center of your universe. You can't do that when your attention is being diverted to other women even if they are only photos or videos. A woman's most powerful tool to get this interest is her sex appeal but by looking at porn you are holding the sex appeal of other women above hers or at least equal to hers. That means even when she has you in a relationship she is still competing against other women for you. That's not fun. It is sad, angering, and depressing for her. I'm not speaking as a feminist or a moralist. This is just the way things are. Human nature and all of that garbage. I look at a lot of porn and have continuous sexual fantasies. If I had a gf I should stop for her but I wouldn't be able to or not completely no matter how much it hurt her. All I could do is keep it from her by hiding it and not discussing it. It would never be enough but that's all that could be done. That's the price of living in a society and around others. You keep more away than you ever could reveal. The truth never set anyone free.
Andy_K Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I have absolutely no idea what your girlfriend looks like but I can assure you she has no physical 'faults'. This is just one reason why some women have such an issue with porn. What makes you so sure her faults are physical? Nowhere did he mention that. Besides, EVERYONE has physical faults and imperfections. I've got some grey hairs, a bad little toenail on my left foot, and some bottom teeth that aren't straight. No matter who his girlfriend is, she's got physical faults too.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Women want a man's interest and attentiveness. If you look at porn you are depriving her of what she wants from a man the most. She wants you to only care about her. She wants herself to be the center of your universe. You can't do that when your attention is being diverted to other women even if they are only photos or videos. A woman's most powerful tool to get this interest is her sex appeal but by looking at porn you are holding the sex appeal of other women above hers or at least equal to hers. That means even when she has you in a relationship she is still competing against other women for you. That's not fun. It is sad, angering, and depressing for her. I'm not speaking as a feminist or a moralist. This is just the way things are. Human nature and all of that garbage. I look at a lot of porn and have continuous sexual fantasies. If I had a gf I should stop for her but I wouldn't be able to or not completely no matter how much it hurt her. All I could do is keep it from her by hiding it and not discussing it. It would never be enough but that's all that could be done. That's the price of living in a society and around others. You keep more away than you ever could reveal. The truth never set anyone free. That is very odd, you can't simply "not have it" and feel the need to hide it, no matter how much you might love someone or how much it would affect them. Wouldn't that signal a dependence?
BeginAgain Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) That is very odd, you can't simply "not have it" and feel the need to hide it, no matter how much you might love someone or how much it would affect them. Wouldn't that signal a dependence? It is a dependency and living a full human life depends on having many things in it that others will never be able to approve of. Basically a human life is a mixture of virtue and vice. Edited April 5, 2011 by BeginAgain
dreamingoftigers Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 It is a dependency and living a full human life depends on having many things in it that others will never be able to approve of. Basically a human life is a mixture of virtue and vice. IMHO living a full human life depends on not justifying a "vice" that hurts others to give one secretive pleasure. Happiness and fullness comes from within and by slowly becoming more congruent and giving of joy.
BeginAgain Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 IMHO living a full human life depends on not justifying a "vice" that hurts others to give one secretive pleasure. I am not justifying it. I am stating the way things are. They are the duplo blocks of reality. They won't change or cease to exist because you don't like them. Besides it isn't secretive. I'm a male so it is expected. I guess it could be labeled a public secret maybe. Happiness and fullness comes from within and by slowly becoming more congruent and giving of joy. Happiness doesn't exist except in brief fleeting moments. Living a full life requires one to be open enough to realize one's flaws and not deny oneself out of a fear of censure. This doesn't mean a full life is in opposition to the giving of joy, but the receiving of joy can't be utterly compromised in order to give joy if one wants to truly remain open and live fully.
LittleTiger Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 What makes you so sure her faults are physical? Nowhere did he mention that. I think the implication was that she wasn't physically perfect though, I admit, I could be wrong. Besides, EVERYONE has physical faults and imperfections. I've got some grey hairs, a bad little toenail on my left foot, and some bottom teeth that aren't straight. No matter who his girlfriend is, she's got physical faults too. On the contrary - NOBODY has physical faults. They're not 'faults'. They're part of being human. There's no such thing as one physically perfect human being, we're all unique - therefore there's no such thing as a physical 'fault'. Who dictated that grey hair is 'faulty' or that all teeth should be straight? Other human beings, that's who! No wonder people are so screwed up if everyone's looking around a picking 'faults' with themselves and others.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I am not justifying it. I am stating the way things are. They are the duplo blocks of reality. They won't change or cease to exist because you don't like them. Besides it isn't secretive. I'm a male so it is expected. I guess it could be labeled a public secret maybe. The bolded is a prime example of a justification, plus it is also a popular justification for adultery. Secretive behaviour that harms others is not justifiable no matter what gender you were born. Happiness doesn't exist except in brief fleeting moments. Living a full life requires one to be open enough to realize one's flaws and not deny oneself out of a fear of censure. This doesn't mean a full life is in opposition to the giving of joy, but the receiving of joy can't be utterly compromised in order to give joy if one wants to truly remain open and live fully. Living a full life means realizing that some things are "flaws" and that other things are "behaviours." Rationalizing behaviours is a behviour and thought process that you may want to look deeper into. Porn is not required of anyone to live a full life.
Andy_K Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 On the contrary - NOBODY has physical faults. They're not 'faults'. They're part of being human. There's no such thing as one physically perfect human being, we're all unique - therefore there's no such thing as a physical 'fault'. I don't agree. If I have a club foot, or cleft palate, they are physical faults. Anything else is just a question of degree. Nobody says we have to be physically perfect, but that doesn't mean we can just say we are.
LittleTiger Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I don't agree. If I have a club foot, or cleft palate, they are physical faults. Anything else is just a question of degree. Nobody says we have to be physically perfect, but that doesn't mean we can just say we are. We'll just have to agree to disagree because we're a little off topic.
BeginAgain Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Living a full life means realizing that some things are "flaws" and that other things are "behaviours." Rationalizing behaviours is a behviour and thought process that you may want to look deeper into. You are getting into semantics here. A flawed behavior is a flaw. I always do look deeper but root causes can't be altered until the human nature they grow out of no longer exists. Behavior can be suppressed but it is a superficial salve and nothing more. Porn is not required of anyone to live a full life. Originally I mentioned not just porn but sexual fantasy as well since they aren't all that different. They are both parts to a full life. You deny one part you deny the whole aggregate.
Taramere Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) My issue with porn is that I think it's a pretty rancid industry which exploits people's weaknesses, vulnerabilities and foolishness.. rather than promoting or creating anything positive. I put it in the same category as Wal-mart, McDonalds, bookmakers, pimps and drug dealers. Many people put money into the coffers of some of these industries at one point or another, but it's not exactly something to be applauded. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/21/60minutes/main585049.shtml It is estimated that Americans now spend somewhere around $10 billion a year on adult entertainment, which is as much as they spend attending professional sporting events, buying music or going out to the movies. I wonder how much better would music be if people focused less of their time and money on porn, and more of it on music. If people were spending more of that money supporting the arts, literature and sport, more people would be able to work in those incredibly fulfilling areas that bring genuine happiness and enrichment (as opposed to a short term thrill) to the lives of many. If somebody genuinely believes porn is enriching their life, then all power to them. People are entitled to spend their money on whatever they wish to spend it on provided it's legal. It seems to me, though, that a lot of people aren't happy with the kind of society we have.....but people in a free world dictate the society they have through their spending habits and the choices they make. Edited April 5, 2011 by Taramere
Ross PK Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I know this topic has been done to death and most modern day porn bores me but I am curious about this. It seems that to some women the worst sin a man can commit is looking at porn and I don't get it. They are just images on a screen of women he most likely will never meet or ever have a chance with. The chances of him actually cheating with these women is two million to one so why is this such an issue of contention? They probably had a religious upbringing.
phineas Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Me using porn pissed my now ex-wife off beyond belief. She was cheating & blamed me for her cheating & was angry about that at me (I suspected, but didn't know for sure at the time) She cut me off. She was using sex as a way to hold power over me. So I fired up my 'puter & rubbed one out every morning. I showed her I didn't need her. I took her power away & this pissed her off even more. She was bitching to my friends wife that she could here me watching porn every morning. She was trying to demonize me. My friends wife told her. "well, if your not taking care of business what do you expect?" LOL!
Ross PK Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Porn is not required of anyone to live a full life. It is for guys like myself.
Eclypse Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Porn hasn't seemed to cause you any issues yet? This is your first girlfriend and you believe she has faults (though thankfully ones that you accept her for)? Please tell me what/who you are measuring her against to come up with this conclusion? You can be absolutely certain that porn has influenced you in subconscious ways without you even noticing - you didn't even notice (and sadly neither has anyone else yet) how your comment demeans your girlfriend. You're young and I have no wish to make you feel bad. I'm just pointing out how strongly influenced you and other young men your age have been. All of us are perfect, unique human beings. I have absolutely no idea what your girlfriend looks like but I can assure you she has no physical 'faults'. This is just one reason why some women have such an issue with porn. On top of that, most porn degrades women and shows them merely as vehicles for men's sexual release. When I was younger I had no issue with it at all and even watched it myself occasionally. Nowadays, the whole industry appalls me. I understand why men use it and I have no objection to my own partner looking at beautiful photographs of naked women (I like them myself), but when very young men start measuring real young women against porn stars and expecting, or even hoping/wishing, their partners will behave the same way, something is very, very wrong. I am a little confused. No one is perfect. I would certainly be lying if I said I was. I've got premature graying of hair and other things. Those pretty porn ladies are not perfect either, they just have the luxury of being airbrushed in the editing process. My gf has some problems with pimple outbreaks among other things. She gets very sad and depressed about it and won't cheer up no matter how much I tell her she is beautiful (and she is, she really is). I don't care about the pimples, or her inability to gain weight or anything (yes that is a problem she has). I love her for who she is, and she loves me for who I am. I think if anyone is holding out for a Taylor Lautner or Megan Fox lookalike... they're going to be waiting for a very long time. My partner turns me on in bed much more than masturbating over Megan Fox on tv ever could.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 It is for guys like myself. Ross, do you have an imagination? I ask this, because I've noticed, as a creative person myself, that I have the strongest orgasms whenever I've fantasized without pictures. Yes, that's right, without pictures. I can think about a female celebrity I like, and picture her naked, and then picture her giving me a blowjob or having intercourse. Somehow, I'm able to fantasize easier this way, than when I have a picture of her (clothed) in front of me. It's easier for me to take off her clothes, using my mind, than to erase the clothes off a virtual picture. Now, porn is easier, because there is no work involved. Bing, the girl is already naked and in sex acts, so you don't have to do any work. But I've also noticed that I have stronger orgasms if she looks like a celebrity, or someone I know (the porn star)...in that way, I can fantasize that it's that girl, and turn down the sound, and...it IS that girl. I realize that most men don't have this ability. But as someone who's working on two novels right now, and have written short stories before, and am constantly exercising my brain, I feel it's more satisfying that way.
BeginAgain Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Megan Fox is pretty attractive but there are so many women out there who are attractive that it makes her beauty not as significant. Though attraction is time dependent so it ebbs and flows. Sometimes a Megan Fox can seem like the most attractive girl in the world and then later the least with her throne being usurped by some random girl on the street or in yet another youtube dancing vid.
d'Arthez Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 My issue with porn is that I think it's a pretty rancid industry which exploits people's weaknesses, vulnerabilities and foolishness.. rather than promoting or creating anything positive. But that is the whole point of capitalism. To create a weakness is a virtue, to be ruthlessly exploited. Not to mention the 'ideologically beneficial' effects it has for those who benefit most. Of course, respectability is granted to physical as well as psychological prostitution. Providing means for psychological escapism is one way in which one can try to prevent people thinking about the status quo, and how it is not in their best interests to support it. Anyone care to imagine what would happen if there cinema and life-style magazines were not available for 4 weeks?
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I actually don't find Megan Fox very attractive. She does nothing for me. Same with Angelina Jolie. On the other hand, Keira Knightley has always pushed my sexual buttons.
sweetjasmine Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Women want a man's interest and attentiveness. If you look at porn you are depriving her of what she wants from a man the most. She wants you to only care about her. She wants herself to be the center of your universe. You can't do that when your attention is being diverted to other women even if they are only photos or videos. A woman's most powerful tool to get this interest is her sex appeal but by looking at porn you are holding the sex appeal of other women above hers or at least equal to hers. That means even when she has you in a relationship she is still competing against other women for you. That's not fun. It is sad, angering, and depressing for her. Bingo. Women are taught that their sex appeal is their only power and that it's their responsibility to be sexy and attractive all the time for their partner. They're taught that men are basically animals who will immediately jump at the chance to be with a sexy woman. So whenever a woman's partner doesn't pay attention to her or chooses some other sexual outlet, she's bound to interpret it as a sign that she's less attractive and less sexually desirable. Aside from issues with the industry, I personally have a problem with consistent use of porn because repeated use can alter someone's sexuality and re-wire their attraction. It's no different than a woman using a vibrator every single day and then being incapable of getting off with just her partner and absolutely needing it to feel satisfied. It just robs a relationship of much needed intimacy when one person absolutely needs outside stimulation every single time. There's no way that the other person isn't going to feel inadequate.
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