Waiting for her divorce

[WaitingHeart]

Eleven years ago I worked with a woman whom I had an attraction to but we remained merely co-workers due to the fact that she was married and I was in a committed relationship. In that 11 years, I moved out of state and lost complete contact with her. Then about 9 months ago something happened. She got a job with a company who has an office where she lives but their corporate office is in the same town I live, over 500 miles away. She was in my town for a business trip and we met for drinks. Completely platonic and friendly.

Since then we have been talking, texting, emailing, and video and have fallen completely in love. I feel it and she says it and I really don't have any reason to doubt her love for me. We've met twice in the past 9 months and the relationship is no longer platonic.

Problem is, she's still married but very very unhappy and tells me she is going to get a divorce. I don't doubt that she is unhappy, I hear and see how they are together and they are definitely not in love anymore. The monkey wrench in all this is that she has 2 kids, 14 and 16, and she is trying to get her life on a financial path where she can get the divorce and be with me. I've tiptoed around a time frame but can never get a definite answer.

It's hard to explain the who situation on here because there is so much. Let me just say that there are many many "signs" pointing to that cliche that we are soul mates.

I'm just trying to see what y'all think, is this something that I should wait for or move on. I know that I'm not going to get the "perfect" answer here but am interested in what you have to add.

[TinaniT]

It's hard to say.

 

Leaving a marriage with kids is very, very hard. She could be working towards it.

 

How much time are you willing to give? You might want to tell her, at least, that forever is not an option and you need to honestly know what she is thinking and feeling. Because leaving can paralyze you a little bit, for some people (was so for me) so that you need a little nudge to know for sure which way you are going.

[WaitingHeart]

We've talked about it and she's told me that she is planning on moving up here when her oldest goes to college in 2 years. We've also discussed that we are going to move thru this in stages, first being her divorce and second her relocating to where I live. What's bothering me is the time frame for her to get a divorce. I have no issue doing the long distance relationship thing for a couple of years, but we don't even have that yet.

In 9 months I've physically seen her for 3 days when she was able to get away from her husband. I know if we lived closer to each other the contact would be more, but I can't relocate due to my daughter. I've sort of accepted the fact that until she is divorced I probably won't be able to see her.

[whichwayisup]

Stop making 'future plans'. there is NO POINT in doing so, her moving when her oldest is in college. What about her YOUNGEST kid? What if the oldest decides not to move out, go to college?

 

This woman isn't even separated yet, let alone on the verge of divorce.

 

Does her husband know that she's cheated, had an affair and wants out? Wants a divorce? Or is she giving you lip service, so the A will continue and she won't have to change (stop being married) and she gets to have her cake and eat it too.

 

In 9 months I've physically seen her for 3 days when she was able to get away from her husband.

 

This woman is not leaving her husband. You two are having a LTA (long distance affair) you have NO IDEA what goes on behind closed doors. I doubt her husband has a clue that she's up to no good.

[WaitingHeart]

I'm pretty sure her husband doesn't know about me. He's cheated on her in the past tho, and been caught. I am confident that once her daughter goes to college she will move up closer to me. We've talked about that at length.

I am also confident that her and her husband are not intimate at all and that the marriage is going to end. Yes, I don't know for complete surety, but there has to be some trust in any relationship.

There are also things that she has said and done that have proven to me that she is going to eventually get divorced. My major issue is when and how long to wait. I am in total agreement with her attitude that her kids come before me and that she needs to make sure getting the divorce doesn't hurt them any more than it has to.

[Emme]

Here's the question for you. Are you prepared to not only accept her but also her two children. Meaning you will become an instant father figure to these children. It will not be just the two of you. It might be the four of you. Are you ready for that in your life? There is no having sex on the kitchen table in the middle of the night. Have you looked at it from that perspective.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Emme

[carrie999]

Stop making 'future plans'. there is NO POINT in doing so, her moving when her oldest is in college. What about her YOUNGEST kid? What if the oldest decides not to move out, go to college?

 

This woman isn't even separated yet, let alone on the verge of divorce.

 

Does her husband know that she's cheated, had an affair and wants out? Wants a divorce? Or is she giving you lip service, so the A will continue and she won't have to change (stop being married) and she gets to have her cake and eat it too.

 

This woman is not leaving her husband. You two are having a LTA (long distance affair) you have NO IDEA what goes on behind closed doors. I doubt her husband has a clue that she's up to no good.

 

I completely agree with WWIU on the first bolded point. That was the first question in my mind. If the concern is for the kids to be out of high school (meaning the school district, essentially), that would actually make sense. But why just the first kid? To me, it sounds like she wants to keep her kids settled until they finish school, but she thinks four years would sound too daunting and unrealistic to you (and maybe her), whereas two years "sounds" realistic and fair.

 

Which brings me to the second bolded point. I don't know about that, and certainly cannot say whether she plans to leave her husband in the the next six months or two or four years, or ever. But it sounds like she doesn't want to uproot her children, so I wouldn't bet on her moving to be with you, even if she divorces him. If anything, maybe she's hoping that if she goes through the divorce proceedings and stays with you for 2-3 years, you'll move to make this work.

 

Whatever the case, what she's saying now is not consistent with either putting BOTH kids first OR moving closer to you. In the best case scenario, she's basically thinking out loud about what seems like a compromise to make it work for both your relationship with her AND her kids. And it doesn't sound like a very carefully thought out plan...more like stretching in hopes of making this work based upon what she thinks she wants now. I would worry less about her not getting divorced than her trying to make up her mind and figure out what she really wants for her own future...that seems variable at the moment.

[WaitingHeart]

Oh yeah, that thought has definitely gone thru my mind. I have a 5yr old myself and actually have kids. Honestly, the physical attraction is really only a small part of why I love her. And as far as being their father figure, we've even discussed this. Even after their divorce my attitude is that they will always have only one father. When she does finally move closer to me we both agree that we will have separate houses for at least awhile so it's not like she moves up her and I have an instant family.

The kids are not the issue. My conflict is whether I should continue to see us as a fairy tale that was meant to be and simply wait for her to finally get the divorce or just simply move on with my life and hope to find something this special somewhere else.

[WaitingHeart]

Carrie, we have great communication and have touched on pretty much all you've said. I can't move closer to her because of my 5yr old. And I have come out point blank and stated that I was concerned that she was going to wait until her youngest moved out as well. Unless she is just lying to me to appease I'm confident she will move in 2 years.

It's hard to convey over a computer but it's amazing the trust we've built so believing her is not hard for me to do. And understand I went thru a divorce about 2 years ago so for me to trust is pretty major has to be well built.

[whichwayisup]

I'm pretty sure her husband doesn't know about me. He's cheated on her in the past tho, and been caught. I am confident that once her daughter goes to college she will move up closer to me. We've talked about that at length.

I am also confident that her and her husband are not intimate at all and that the marriage is going to end. Yes, I don't know for complete surety, but there has to be some trust in any relationship.

There are also things that she has said and done that have proven to me that she is going to eventually get divorced. My major issue is when and how long to wait. I am in total agreement with her attitude that her kids come before me and that she needs to make sure getting the divorce doesn't hurt them any more than it has to.

 

Well, I guess you'll have to wait and see actions meet words.

 

You are not nearby, you're long distance. Again, you have NO idea what her life or dynamic is like at home. If you need to believe that they are not intimate, then you are fooling yourself. Sorry. They ARE living life together, going out and doing family things. I'm sure they entertain, have friends and family over at their house as well.

 

Does she tell you they sleep apart, in separate rooms too?

[WaitingHeart]

Actually no, she's told me they sleep in the same bed. Yeah, the question has definitely gone thru my head about what her and her husband do. I've even point blank asked her if they still have sex. She told me no. I may be a fool for believing it, but what am I gonna do?

There is just more to make be believe that she is telling me the truth about that than not. I completely believe that she is being honest with me on this point tho.

[whichwayisup]

Actually no, she's told me they sleep in the same bed. Yeah, the question has definitely gone thru my head about what her and her husband do. I've even point blank asked her if they still have sex. She told me no. I may be a fool for believing it, but what am I gonna do?

There is just more to make be believe that she is telling me the truth about that than not. I completely believe that she is being honest with me on this point tho.

 

OFCOURSE she isn't going to tell you she has sex with her husband still. What would that do? Though, in some sense it should be EXPECTED and ASSUMED that a married person is still having sex with their spouse. Most OW and OM don't ask as they know deep down the real answer, but I guess those who do ask, are happy with the answer. Ask a betrayed spouse about their sex life during the time they didn't know about their spouses affair? 9/10 will tell you their sex life was normal and good. So, maybe you are the 1 percent and she is telling the truth. Though I doubt it. Sorry to be blunt but yes ,I do believe you're fooling yourself and have hopeful thinking/wishful thinking.

[BB07]

Waiting......I suggest you spend some time reading around the forum. There are many stories here that tell of a lot of pain, waiting and heartache. There are a few where the people do end up together but those are not the norm.

 

If you read around much you will see that there are a lot of common things said during an affair and sadly most of the time that's not a good sign for the AP.

 

I think you should ask yourself if it's a good thing for YOU, to put your life in a holding pattern, at least on the romance end of things for a whole lot of MAYBE'S. The time period she is throwing out at you is a pretty long time and a lot can happen within that time.

 

IMO, the smart thing to do would be back the heck off (yes I know you probably feel like you are letting her down and she needs you) but actually backing off will do her a favor, less confusion and conflict for her and it will allow you to not base a romance on.........well frankly not much of anything at this time but words that may or may not be true. Too many uncertainties! You can always tell her that you will be there with open arms should she have something concrete (divorce) to deliver to you. Otherwise you might be inviting a whole lot of things you don't want in your life.

[TurboGirl]

All of these "plans" you have discussed for the future...sound like "dreams" and what your romantic heart says when you are with someone you are crazy about. I don't doubt that she is crazy about you, but I'm not seeing any signs about moving forward. Sure, sure, 2 years... and then 2 more, and then the dog is sick, she can't leave, the husband looses his job, she can't leave.

 

Some people stay in mediocre relationships because it is the easy thing to do. Don't have to make any effort. And she has you on the side as a close friend and for enjoyment when the two of you can arrange it. Sounds great for her!

 

I don't think you are gonna be in the winner's circle here. But I could be wrong.

[WaitingHeart]

Yeah Turbo, I think you hit it on the head. After sitting here all night thinking about it I guess my main problem is the fact that we aren't moving forward. Before the holidays I heard the typical "want to wait until after the holidays".

Now, 3 months later, still in the same spot. My conflict is that I know me and her are going to have a future, just have no idea when the future is even going to start.

I also sit here and think to myself that this is somewhat of a test. If we can make it thru this there really isn't anything that we can't get thru.

[siuys]

Yeah Turbo, I think you hit it on the head. After sitting here all night thinking about it I guess my main problem is the fact that we aren't moving forward. Before the holidays I heard the typical "want to wait until after the holidays".

Now, 3 months later, still in the same spot. My conflict is that I know me and her are going to have a future, just have no idea when the future is even going to start.

I also sit here and think to myself that this is somewhat of a test. If we can make it thru this there really isn't anything that we can't get thru.

 

You could be waiting a long time... and how can you move forward when she is not available to, whether physically or emotionally? I used to think i had a future with xMM too... and he moved out and was on his own for 6 months before moving back. Then months later he said he was moving out, even went apartment hunting with him. Then what? more swaying, more inconsistencies until I had had enough and ended it.

 

A test? Yes, been there done that. I used to think the same too. Problem with an A, even more so with a LDR, is you are living in a fantasy. Betting on potential. It's all projections unfortunately.

 

If she is serious, then let her do her stuff and you get on with your life. If you stick around and play doormat, she WILL treat you like one. In the long run, she will respect you more if you put your boundaries in place sooner, rather than later.

[carhill]

Hi OP, a couple of questions:

 

1. Has she told you how she felt when her H cheated on her? How long ago was that?

 

2. What is the 'financial path' she needs to be on to get a divorce? Sounds like she has a good job with a large company. Assuming her H isn't destitute, a D should be no problem, merely an adjustment in lifestyle.

 

3. How does she feel about you dating other women? I ask this since it's quite unfair of her to ask you to be celibate and chaste for 'whatever' amount of time it takes for her to do what she's going to do.

 

 

I'll add, as a former OM and MM, that people who cheat rarely tell the truth with any consistency. It's 'situational'. Some people rationalize it. Me, I knew it was lying and took the steps (therapy) to fix it.

 

Last question:

 

Have you ever cheated while in a monogamous, committed relationship? It's not an indictment, rather a qualifier. It helps respondents understand the dynamic better. Myself, I never cheated sexually, as your MW has, but rather emotionally; still, it's cheating. IMO, it's good to get it all out there and work it.

 

Good luck

[skywriter]

Turbogirl said this;

 

"And she has you on the side as a close friend and for enjoyment when the two of you can arrange it. Sounds great for her!"

 

and I have to agree.

 

Also, if she really loves you, wouldn't she want you to go on with your life?

There are no quarantees here, no actions, nothing be implemented. It sounds like alot of pretty words, hopes and dreams.

 

I hope you won't stop living and giving other people an opportunity to be a part of your life.

[WaitingHeart]

carhill:

1. She was upset about it but really could not ever prove anything. It was about 8 years ago and from what she has told me the start of their demise. She's never cheated on him and the only reason she stayed, and is still with him, is due to the kids.

2. Right now she is a couple of grand in debt, and it's her's solely not joint. The major issue is living, she doesn't want the house, can't afford it herself, and really can't afford an apartment.

3. I was actually the one who suggested being exclusive (yea even tho she's married)

I was married for 6 years and have had other "exclusive" relationships and I can honestly say that I've always stayed faithful

The whole situation is kind of screwy. Even back 11 years ago her marriage was a mess and she was contimplating divorce but stayed with him for the family's sake. I actually don't 100% disagree with her on this point. I don't think anyone should be put ahead of your kids so on one hand I want her to cmon and get it over with and on the other I think she is doing the right thing by her kids.

[carhill]

Thanks. To clarify, as I'm a bit confused between the 'she's never cheated' (I presume prior to yourself) and 'the relationship is no longer platonic', could you further clarify whether the non-platonic relationship is an EA (emotional affair), PA (physical affair, meaning sex is involved) or both?

 

Also, if you had to describe your own feelings, what would you say prompted you, after a faithful marriage and other exclusive relationships, to consider becoming an OM? What about your boundaries changed?

 

I'm perhaps a bit older and was an OM in my younger years, markedly so in one instance for a couple decades of and on, and I'm interested in how you process this.

 

Has your MW ever participated in marriage and/or individual counseling?

[BB07]

 

Also, if you had to describe your own feelings, what would you say prompted you, after a faithful marriage and other exclusive relationships, to consider becoming an OM? What about your boundaries changed?

 

I'm interested in seeing those responses also.

 

One of those little bit at a time things?

[carhill]

I found incremental erosion to be a marked issue where circumstances weren't clearly communicated in the beginning, exemplified by the classic 'no ring' and 'no mention of marriage' and, later, 'separated' type disclosures. IOW, build the emotional bond first, then trickle truth. After enough of that, I developed cynicism in general, stabilizing boundaries. Concurrently, formerly sparse options became more pervasive, allowing greater selectivity. So, bluntly, I became less 'desperate'.

 

The OP, having been married and in a number of successful relationships, appears to have plenty of options, so that shouldn't be a determinative factor. As some here on LS say, love is a choice.

[WaitingHeart]

Yeah Carhill, the whole thing is confusing

I knew she was married from day one, back 11 years ago when we worked together and 9 months ago when our paths crossed again. After we met up again in June we started talking on the phone a lot so I guess that would be considered an EA to start with. Then in October we met again (first time since June) and it became physical.

I guess the biggest factor of my not having an issue with her begin married, even 9 months ago when we started all this, is that her marriage is down to a mere legal document. I've seen her and husband together and there is nothing there.

And yes, they've tried counseling on 3 separate occasions. I don't have any doubts that the marriage is over except for the legal aspect.

[carhill]

If the marriage is over except for the legal aspects, I presume her H knows about you and perhaps has met you. You did mention you've 'seen them together'. While appearances might be appropriate for the children, there's no reason why adults, away from the children, can't be open and honest.

 

How does she feel about you visiting her locale? Being seen in public there? Etc. Again, if it's really 'over', none of this should be an issue.

 

BTW, I've walked all these paths, as both a OM and MM, so I'm merely reciting from memory. Watching people's *actions* is a clear indicator of their perspective. Words can be and often are just carbon dioxide.

 

Set boundaries of decorum for *yourself* and a firm timeline for what you want to do and, if that matches up with her, it does. If not, not. As an example, a firm timeline would be for her to file for divorce this year and that, prior, you will have no contact with her as it is inappropriate for you (your boundaries). Decide for yourself what you want and then stick to it. The key result is health for self. When all is said and done, IMO, that's the most important thing. No one else can live your life but you, and vice-versa, meaning you can't live anyone else's life. Good luck

[BB07]

Yeah Carhill, the whole thing is confusing

I knew she was married from day one, back 11 years ago when we worked together and 9 months ago when our paths crossed again. After we met up again in June we started talking on the phone a lot so I guess that would be considered an EA to start with. Then in October we met again (first time since June) and it became physical.

I guess the biggest factor of my not having an issue with her begin married, even 9 months ago when we started all this, is that her marriage is down to a mere legal document. I've seen her and husband together and there is nothing there.

And yes, they've tried counseling on 3 separate occasions. I don't have any doubts that the marriage is over except for the legal aspect.

 

Waiting.......I'm not trying to give you a hard time here but trying to save you some pain OK.

 

She maybe telling you that it's over, she may think it's over, but as long as she is still in that house with him you only know what you've been told and as we read here so often, when people have a d day they often go back to work on the marriage, really working on it sometimes or sometimes a half hearted attempt at pacifying everyone until the dust settles but which it is, won't really matter because you will feel like the dog ****e you step in at the park. Also you will find that if there is a d day many AP's are thrown under the bus and it hurts like hell. There are a few current posts that show this to be true and there are numerous older ones.

 

Also another key thing here is......that she may be saying it, really mean it, but as long as her husband doesn't know that she is having another relationship then he sure as heck doesn't know it's over and if she does tell him she is leaving or a d day happens, he may put up such a fuss that she will give it another go. Think about how that would make you feel.

 

I've noticed in your posts that you are saying you trust what she is telling you, but yet you are here.......so I think you do have more than a seed of doubt. You really need to listen to that nagging little voice in your head and don't blindly trust someone who has NOT proved that she is all that. Later if she turns out to be.......then good for you, but right now, all you've got are her words and a promise and even though you have seen them together, unless you lived with them, it's not an accurate picture. I will also tell you one more thing before I get off my soapbox. I once was very trusting like you and I believed the words I was hearing and this was with a man who had an unblemished reputation and who I knew although not intimately for a few years before we got involved. I NEVER thought that what happened to me would.....but it did and now I'm not the same woman I was before. In some ways I'm better and in other ways I'm irreparably damaged. So......use those doubts to your advantage and don't blindly trust ANYONE.