Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 Comparing myself to others is what's given me the drive to beat competition and get ahead... I think it's just setting myself up for failure. I see kids from my high school living (what I perceive to be, anyway) better lives even though I was leagues ahead of them in high school/college. There's just no substitution for a good family and I feel so beaten down at the relative standings. Regarding interviews, it's not like I haven't tried. Before my current job, I was searching for work for months and I was constantly bombing my interviews and not making the cut. Again, the only reason (I feel) I got my current job is because there was a tough project involved and I was able to show my work rather than just talk about it. How are you guys able to be happy with yourselves without feeling diminished because of those more fortunate? I have the hardest time with this. I try to count my blessings but it's just so hard when my girlfriend comes home with "I have an interview this week -- and it pays 20k more than the current job!" That means she'll now be another grand ahead per month. This raise alone will give her *additional* earning power where that addition exceeds everything I make on margin. I feel like s**t.
TokyoG33kyGal Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 everyone already gave you advice on money and what to talk with your girlfriend...i am just gonna add this so that you could look at the root of your problem. most people who grew up in an abusive environment often takes the role of the caretaker. this is where the feeling of not doing enough, emasculated, don't feel deserving of the love of others comes in. stop thinking that you need to take the lead and be the caretaker of this relationship. partnership is not a competition. it is about two people working together with the same goals. that being said, your girlfriend too should be more understanding of your situation and should be willing to help or adjust.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) How are you guys able to be happy with yourselves without feeling diminished because of those more fortunate? I have the hardest time with this. I try to count my blessings but it's just so hard when my girlfriend comes home with "I have an interview this week -- and it pays 20k more than the current job!" That means she'll now be another grand ahead per month. This raise alone will give her *additional* earning power where that addition exceeds everything I make on margin. I feel like s**t. I grew up poor and am not close to my family, because they are not nurturing and mostly they just hurt me and drag me down (my dad is the main problem). And yes, this has put a strain on me my whole life. I worked my way through college, while almost all my friends come from rich families and had everything paid for and then some. Every guy I've ever been involved with had at least a fair amount of money and support behind him, which in most cases they didn't even seem to appreciate. I lived in a pretty bad part of town in a run-down place during college for the cheap rent, and I remember being a little embarrassed to bring my date home because my place was so humble. I thought it was a pretty rad place, but you never know how others are going to react. I know it's different for men and women. But he did not judge me for my financial situation and frugal lifestyle. He recognized that I was working very hard to overcome the disadvantages I was born into, and he respected and appreciated me more for that. And now, I'm starting to move up in the business world, and tomorrow, my printer is dropping off business cards at my place. I am still slightly concerned about what he will think about my place. He's the typical salesman, with his whitened grin, perfect suit, and shiny shoes. My place is OK, but again, because I am still working my way up, it's in a less-than-prime neighborhood and looks nothing like the glimmering condos where most of the people I'm now working with live. But if he is going to judge me for the house I live in, he's not the kind of person I want to work with, anyway. Yes, sometimes it's hard to be glad for what I have. But there's nothing I can do about the family and fortune cards I was dealt. If I want the good parts of family and fortune, I have to create them for myself. So I'm running a small business, working my butt off, and taking a big step up. It is NOT easy. Dozens of the little things that privileged people take for granted I have never had, and now I'm gearing up to operate on that level. I'm not quite sure how to do it, but I am just taking a leap every day. I mean, what else can you do? If your girlfriend really loves you, she will understand. And if she doesn't really love you, why would you even want to bother with her? I'd rather be alone than be with someone who only wants me when I've got a pocket full of cash. Edited April 5, 2011 by Ruby Slippers
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) To the OP, from my point of view, your issues really don't have to do with your girlfriend. They are almost universally your issues. They may infact stem from your broken childhood. It is glaringly obvious that you lack confidence in yourself, and doubt your own worth... Wealth is not a TRUE measure of one's success. I have seen wealth come and go and come back again many times over for many different people. If the roles were reversed, and you were in your GF's shoes, privileged and wealthy, and apparently the world was at your feet, and your GF was the one who had the rough childhood, was struggling and had a seemingly tough time making it compared to you, would you really love her any less? WOULD YOU? Why would you for a second think that she cares and loves for you any more or less due to your financial situation(s), and or rough childhood? I genuinely feel you would turn around your point of view by absorbing the thoughts in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Broken-American-Male-How-Fix/dp/0312379242 Though I am not Jewish, nor practice the principles of Judaism, yet, I find this book to be phenomenal for the majority of today's American male population. It reminds us to be humble and accept where we are monetarily, while at the same time reminding us that our wealth comes from our relationships, the way we take care of our fellow men and women, the way we raise our children and families... I am in a money centered business and have had many personal ups and downs, but I can tell you that when tough times bring me down, I re-read this book, and remember that I have my wife, my kids, my relationships, my integrity, and so many other positives, that it literally turns my entire perspective around, and then all of a sudden the financial end begins to improve also... You want to go on an interview and get what you currently envision to be your dream job? Get the rest of your life and your affairs in order. Quit focusing so much on the monetary end of things... put your personal and life integrity at the tops of your priorities; the rest will conveniently follow... Edited April 5, 2011 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me
Nexus One Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) People like Nexus One speak as if it shouldn't be a huge deal to save up 50k after a few years. You're not understanding what I tried to say. It shouldn't be a big deal IF you move into cheaper housing, cut your costs, save up every spare penny AND get a higher paying job. You think $800 a month is a slow climb? That's decent mate, don't sweat it. You're not having financial problems, you're having pride and ego problems. What I was pointing at was this. Living in Manhattan is too expensive for you, not because you can't afford it, because you can, but because you want to financially climb faster than you're doing now. When you stay in Manhattan, then you're not going to achieve the higher financial climb you want and then it will not be easy to accumulate 50k or 100k in savings, when you stay your climb WILL be slow. So in my opinion if you DO decide to stay in Manhattan and refuse to cut down on your housing costs, well then you shouldn't complain, because it's your choice after all. And you certainly shouldn't try to scapegoat your girlfriend for that. So it's either MOVE and/or get a higher paying job. Sorry mate, I'm not going to enable you in your jealousy or bruised ego/pride. You don't have financial problems, you have a desire for a bigger monthly financial margin and that's ok, nearly everyone has that. Your solution is simple mathematics, period. Like I said, start looking for a cheap apartment just outside of Manhattan, you can cut your monthly costs $800 by that. Then you'll already be climbing $1600 a month, sounds somewhat better already doesn't it? And then imagine if you managed to get a 80k+ job or higher. You can find those jobs in NYC. You'll be climbing quickly by changing those two things. Only you can make those changes and these choices are completely disconnected from your girlfriends economic situation, use your rationality and strategically improve your situation. And for the record, I never meant to imply it was easy. Edited April 5, 2011 by Nexus One
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 If your girlfriend really loves you, she will understand. And if she doesn't really love you, why would you even want to bother with her? I'd rather be alone than be with someone who only wants me when I've got a pocket full of cash. I would say it's because I do have a hard time being alone. I get depressed, bored, etc. I do have friends but there have been plenty of friends I've distanced myself from because I felt they were violating our respective relationships in some profound way. As a result, I have only a very small circle of friends and many of these friends aren't in the same city anymore ever since moving on from high school and college. I feel like expecting people to "understand" is asking too much sometimes. "If this person really cares about you, they'll understand, and if they don't, why bother" -- it feels like nobody can understand. I don't know if it's because almost everyone in my life comes from a different background than I do, but it just seems like when I set a boundary for myself, people don't respect it -- they just pack their things and go. The jealousy just becomes overpowering and I don't want it to ruin an otherwise great relationship because I don't know how to assess it realistically. I have no idea if my girlfriend needs to step it up or if I am actually in the wrong.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 To the OP, from my point of view, your issues really don't have to do with your girlfriend. They are almost universally your issues. They may infact stem from your broken childhood. It is glaringly obvious that you lack confidence in yourself, and doubt your own worth... Wealth is not a TRUE measure of one's success. I have seen wealth come and go and come back again many times over for many different people. If the roles were reversed, and you were in your GF's shoes, privileged and wealthy, and apparently the world was at your feet, and your GF was the one who had the rough childhood, was struggling and had a seemingly tough time making it compared to you, would you really love her any less? WOULD YOU? Why would you for a second think that she cares and loves for you any more or less due to your financial situation(s), and or rough childhood? I genuinely feel you would turn around your point of view by absorbing the thoughts in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Broken-American-Male-How-Fix/dp/0312379242 Though I am not Jewish, nor practice the principles of Judaism, yet, I find this book to be phenomenal for the majority of today's American male population. It reminds us to be humble and accept where we are monetarily, while at the same time reminding us that our wealth comes from our relationships, the way we take care of our fellow men and women, the way we raise our children and families... I am in a money centered business and have had many personal ups and downs, but I can tell you that when tough times bring me down, I re-read this book, and remember that I have my wife, my kids, my relationships, my integrity, and so many other positives, that it literally turns my entire perspective around, and then all of a sudden the financial end begins to improve also... You want to go on an interview and get what you currently envision to be your dream job? Get the rest of your life and your affairs in order. Quit focusing so much on the monetary end of things... put your personal and life integrity at the tops of your priorities; the rest will conveniently follow... No, I wouldn't think of her less and I'd want to help. Problem is that while I don't have doubt in my own flaws/strengths/abilities/character (I know where I am a good person and where I need improvement), I have no faith in how others perceive me. It's like interviews -- I don't doubt for an instant that the job is too hard for me or that I'm not qualified. I just doubt that I'll present myself optimally to the other person and I doubt that the other person will really understand. Likewise with this sort of situation. I'd want to help, of course -- but I have no faith in the idea that others would feel the same. And it really isn't so much a faith as it is an empirical conclusion. Perhaps it's skewed by a confirmation bias, I don't know.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 You're not understanding what I tried to say. It shouldn't be a big deal IF you move into cheaper housing, cut your costs, save up every spare penny AND get a higher paying job. You think $800 a month is a slow climb? That's decent mate, don't sweat it. You're not having financial problems, you're having pride and ego problems. What I was pointing at was this. Living in Manhattan is too expensive for you, not because you can't afford it, because you can, but because you want to financially climb faster than you're doing now. When you stay in Manhattan, then you're not going to achieve the higher financial climb you want and then it will not be easy to accumulate 50k or 100k in savings, when you stay your climb WILL be slow. So in my opinion if you DO decide to stay in Manhattan and refuse to cut down on your housing costs, well then you shouldn't complain, because it's your choice after all. And you certainly shouldn't try to scapegoat your girlfriend for that. So it's either MOVE and/or get a higher paying job. Sorry mate, I'm not going to enable you in your jealousy or bruised ego/pride. You don't have financial problems, you have a desire for a bigger monthly financial margin and that's ok, nearly everyone has that. Your solution is simple mathematics, period. Like I said, start looking for a cheap apartment just outside of Manhattan, you can cut your monthly costs $800 by that. Then you'll already be climbing $1600 a month, sounds somewhat better already doesn't it? And then imagine if you managed to get a 80k+ job or higher. You can find those jobs in NYC. You'll be climbing quickly by changing those two things. Only you can make those changes and these choices are completely disconnected from your girlfriends economic situation, use your rationality and strategically improve your situation. And for the record, I never meant to imply it was easy. Thanks for the clarification. I do plan to move out of Manhattan soon and cut my rent down by a few hundred dollars per month. It's just hard to find the desired place for the desired price. I could certainly obliterate my rent but I'd be living somewhere unhealthy/unsafe. I understand that the problem is one of mathematics (on this front -- the ego thing is obviously separate). Tough part is just making those mathematics materialize. It's hard to find the right apartment and it's hard to land a higher paying job.
lizwashere Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. I do plan to move out of Manhattan soon and cut my rent down by a few hundred dollars per month. It's just hard to find the desired place for the desired price. I could certainly obliterate my rent but I'd be living somewhere unhealthy/unsafe. I understand that the problem is one of mathematics (on this front -- the ego thing is obviously separate). Tough part is just making those mathematics materialize. It's hard to find the right apartment and it's hard to land a higher paying job. I've lived in NYC for over 20 years and there are plenty of safe, desirable neighborhoods in the outer boroughs. What often happens is people in your age group want to be closer to all the action so they pay outrageous rates to live in Manhattan. If you really want to save on rent, then I suggest you sacrifice the sexiness of living in Manhattan and embrace the practically of living somewhere you can afford.
Kamille Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Vertex, I have to question why you feel you're an exception and need to save up a year's salary as an emergency fund. How long did it take you to find your current job?
Nexus One Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Vertex, I have to question why you feel you're an exception and need to save up a year's salary as an emergency fund. How long did it take you to find your current job? In my opinion having a year's salary as an emergency fund is a good idea in general, you just never know what can happen. If you get sick in the US and need surgery, then you better have the funds to pay for it, otherwise you need to sell your house. God forbid you neither have the funds or own a house. The US doesn't have universal healthcare like Canada and European nations do.
Kamille Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 In my opinion having a year's salary as an emergency fund is a good idea in general, you just never know what can happen. If you get sick in the US and need surgery, then you better have the funds to pay for it, otherwise you need to sell your house. God forbid you neither have the funds or own a house. The US doesn't have universal healthcare like Canada and European nations do. I am Canadian, so I admit I have no idea how the US healthcare system works. I kind of naturally assumed that Vertex, seeing as he is driven to establish security, would have health insurance. I thought 3 months' salary was the average recommendation, both in US and Canada.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) It took me 6 months (late 2009) to find my current job, and I wasn't in Manhattan at the time. Looking for work took forever when it was hard to get your resume in, let alone have it looked at/accepted. From the time I managed to find my current firm's position through my school's recruiting website, it took maybe a grand total of 2-2.5 to actually be in Manhattan and working. However, it took forever to find the right firm and land the interview (hearing back after sending out a resume = incredibly dismal chances. It's like applying to a black hole). I figure a year is a decent safety buffer that will keep me from worrying at night. I do have insurance, luckily. Whether or not it's good is debatable (I am very uneducated about the ins and outs of quality insurance and the healthcare industry). All I know is that insurance is silly to be without when costs are so high. The horror stories of people going into the ER without insurance... euughh. Taking that risk is just too much. Edited April 5, 2011 by VertexSquared
mitchell Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Have you two thought of getting married? Perhaps things would be better if you were working together as a team instead of viewing her as an adversary.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 She wants to get married to me down the line, yes -- but marriage is so far off for both of us. We're only 24 and we both feel that marriage is best during late 20's or so -- maybe 4, 5 years down the road.
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 No, I wouldn't think of her less and I'd want to help. Problem is that while I don't have doubt in my own flaws/strengths/abilities/character (I know where I am a good person and where I need improvement), I have no faith in how others perceive me. It's like interviews -- I don't doubt for an instant that the job is too hard for me or that I'm not qualified. I just doubt that I'll present myself optimally to the other person and I doubt that the other person will really understand. Likewise with this sort of situation. I'd want to help, of course -- but I have no faith in the idea that others would feel the same. And it really isn't so much a faith as it is an empirical conclusion. Perhaps it's skewed by a confirmation bias, I don't know. This is so key here. I am not going to pretend that I have never doubted myself, we all do at times... but, the most important thing you can get here is to know that you are WORTH IT! Just because you see things a certain way, it doesn't mean that it is true! Forget the negative crap that goes in your head. Turn it around. You can do this best by actually typing out or writing out ‘positive affirmations’ that are opposite of those voices in your head. Engage in positive thoughts in every way shape and form. It is negative thoughts that erode your self esteem and eat away at your belief in yourself.
SingVoice Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Ok it sounds to me like your girlfriend really doesn't understand your financial situation. I had a guy do this to me once too. Took me out for all these dinners...took me on vacation...only to find out a few months later that he had put himself into debt doing so. I couldn't believe it!!!! Sure...I liked doing those things...but I would have been JUST as happy cooking a meal at home...or doing an inexpensive road trip. I was SO frustrated by the fact that he didn't communicate this with me...because we were supposed to be a team. I think if you are worried about her response...the best way to approach the subject is to make it about the future. I would just say to her "listen...I want to put myself in a better place financially so that if and when the time comes, I'll be better able to provide for OUR future together." Also...as someone who came from a terrible childhood...you can either look at life one of two ways. You can either be bitter and upset and look at everyone else and be jealous. OR you can look at your life and say "wow...it's so amazing that I SURVIVED all of that s*** and actually turned out to be a normal, functioning person. I could have turned to drugs, alcohol, illegal activity...etc" I think it would be smarter for you to try to take on that attitude. It sounds a bit like you are living in the past. You need to look at ALL that you have now and all that you have done for yourself and feel proud. Because most people in your situation wouldn't have fared as well.
Kamille Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 It took me 6 months (late 2009) to find my current job, and I wasn't in Manhattan at the time. Then I agree a year's saving is a good goal. Now that you have experience, getting your foot in the door should get easier though. Please realize, Vertex, that when it comes to fiscal responsibility, you are way ahead of most. At 24, I was still living off student loans, with no savings to speaj of - and it didn't really stress me out at all. (I do wish I had started saving earlier though!) You're going to have your loans paid off at the early age of 34, a solid emergency fund, a part of which you can probably divert to safe investments. Financial freedom (security), is within your reach and you are working towards it. Take the time to congratulate yourself for how responsible you are.
Kamille Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Ok it sounds to me like your girlfriend really doesn't understand your financial situation. I agree. I don't think we have any way to know whether or not she does understand. From the sounds of it, Vertex hasn't communicated any of the rational behind his financial decision-making process to her. It's one of those cases where: How can she have a clue when she has no idea what his financial goals are?
Nexus One Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) I have no faith in how others perceive me. It's like interviews -- I don't doubt for an instant that the job is too hard for me or that I'm not qualified. I just doubt that I'll present myself optimally to the other person and I doubt that the other person will really understand. That's why you have to ace yourself in your resume. Good interviewers will look past your nervousness and will look at your level of education, experience and skills on your resume and will give interviewees a break regarding nervousness. Unless you're applying for a job as a salesman or public speaking function or whatever, then they tend to not find your nervousness a big deal. When they want you to write functions for Excel sheets, they don't really care about whether or not you're a good public speaker. In your case I think it's best to just accept that there are going to be awkward moments during the interview, but do those interviews anyway. Perhaps you could even view it with a bit of humor and think: "Let's do this, let the awkwardness begin. I'm going to stutter the sh*t out of their HR. I'm going to create long akward silences, just because I can. You see me shaking, you see me shivering? That's me motherf*cker!" An experienced business man once told me: "When it comes to business and making money, showing up is 80% of the work." I think he got that quote from some movie. Edited April 5, 2011 by Nexus One
DollWelch Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Things happen for a reason, Vertex. If you're meant to be with your girlfriend forever, then it is meant to be, it'll work out in the end. However, you should give talking to her some serious thought. I can see you're ashamed of yourself -in a way, ashamed of your situation and how far you've come (or lack thereof) in life. You shouldn't be. Like others have said, you've come a long way and you've more than proven how responsible you are as an adult, a boyfriend, and a working man. Please take the time to focus on helping yourself out, instead of others at the moment. This is about your well being and sanity. I can relate, because I have been through so much in life -most of which it'd be too painful for me to disclose in a public forum -but I managed to get through it. I survived! I may be fragile in places, but I am healthy and working on maintaining it. I hope you overcome this gloomy mindset of yours, and start working towards a healthier you -mind, body and soul. As cliche as that sounded, trust me, I've seen and been through it all and doing the laborious task of reshaping your thinking processes may be tedious at first -but in the end, it'll do you good.
bac Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 IMO you should tell her all the things but with respect and without drama. Do not hurt her feelings while you are talking about the stuff. Then, you will see her reaction. If she wants to adapt to you and be flexible, it means that she really loves you. If she does not accept you the way you are, there are no reason to continue to spend your money on her because she does not love you enough.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 I don't know how to bring this up or what to say.
Kamille Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I don't know how to bring this up or what to say. first question: What's most important to you? What do you feel she needs to know? Here's my perception of the whole deal. You put pressure on yourself to be a provider for her and to make sure you can maintain the same lifestyle that she does. This pressure you put on yourself causes you to have financial anxieties. You are, however, actively paying off your loans and building your savings (are your financial anxitieties warranted?) You have expressed here the desire to cut back on your spending so that you could acheive financial freedom at a faster rate. If you assess that you need to cut back on your spending and this has an impact on her, then here's what I suggest you tell her. "Financial stability is important to me, and I've decided to cut back on some of my spending unti I reach XY goals. I want to talk to you about this, because it's going to affect us for the better in the long term, but it's going to limit us in the short term. It's still important to me that we have a good time together, but we might need to cut back on how much we go out/travel/etc. Your support means the world to me in this." (I mean, of course, adapt and adjust).
bac Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I don't know how to bring this up or what to say. Something like that. 1. Before presenting your problems, you should say that you appreciate her a lot. And, you are fortunate to have her and she is wonderful. 2. Next, you give her a small dose of indirect information about your problems or just a hint. Make sure she gets it as a hint. Give her some time to internalize it on her own. 3. Then, you give her another small dose of your problems as a hint. Let her internalize it again. 4. When you see that she is ready for a direct conversation, you can be direct about your problems. 5. If you get emotional(=express your negative feelings) during the conversation, you will lose because you hurt her feelings. Be rational/logical in presenting what you want.
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