Why Do Women Do This? What Is The Point?

[tincanman99]

I dont need any more female "friends" that want my $$. I can go to strip clubs if I need those kind of friends.

 

It was always in the back of my mind that she was friendly to get business. I am not quite that stupid .

 

That being said I relaxed my guard around her because she was forward with me. She started confiding in me and she also knew my trainer was leaving.

 

Was it on purpose? Who knows. The entire staff there knew I had some concerns because I am very close with my trainer because I have been with her for YEARS.

 

Than she started sending me emails telling me that I made her smile and how it brightened her day when she saw me, thanking me for listening to her, she cant wait to see me at the gym and all kinds of other crap.

 

And thats what it was crap. You tell me what a guy wouldnt think what I thought?

 

Want to know what I think she thought:

 

*I would bond with her and swap her in when my trainer left.

 

*She gets the perks ($) of me being her client. With my current trainer because I am the godfather of her daughter I spoil them rotten because I have the means to do it ($).

 

*She gets the emotional perks of me being a nice guy. I am supportive and I listen while the as*holes that she dates dont.

 

*She gets to flirt, do her thing and have the attention of a male without having to give anything in return.

 

She txted me last night like 5 times and emailed me like 4 times because I did not respond.

 

I am done. Now leave me alone. It didnt turn out quite the way she expected...

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually she is just extremely innapropriate all the way around... wow.

 

Dodged a bullet.

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually she is just extremely innapropriate all the way around... wow.

 

Dodged a bullet.

 

No wonder you were confused, she is confusing.

 

She probably had 8 different motivations going on because she is acting like 8 different things.

 

The email/texting frequency is through the roof!

[tincanman99]

Here is the reality as a man, if she is emotionally intimate with you (which she was) and flirts with you all the time (which she did) - what would you think?

 

That she likes you, duh on me.

 

Because normally women dont do this with men they are NOT interested in.

 

Apparently I am more dense than I thought

Edited April 2, 2011 by tincanman99

[dispatch3d]

Are you sure she was flirting with you? It sounds to me like she just wanted your business/as a trainer. She is even talking about guys she's dating/dated. If I am interested in a guy, I would NEVER EVER do that. So file that one away---any time a gal does that, I would sincerely question either her interest in you or her maturity or both. I mean, I talk about guys I've dated/am dating with my male friends, because they're friends.

 

But she's possibly (I really cannot tell from your story) just wanting attention -- from everyone. People do that crap. It sucks.

 

 

 

Also, another tip: That sounds like coming on pretty damn strong. Even if I was into someone if they said they'd "Treat me right," I'd know they were WAY not the guy for me. Guys who are obsessed with that idea and are just a tad too forward have never worked out for me. (This is not to say that treating a girl right is bad; doing = good; saying = something strange here.) A date offer shouldn't be complex.

 

 

 

Then why did you wait several weeks to ask her out? If you had no intention of being her friend, why pretend at it for weeks on end? It seems like it'd only go somewhere bad. This is why I say the "Friend Zone" is a male myth. They make friends with a woman, then pretend she put them in some Zone because she thinks they're just friends. . . which is what they actually have been acting like/pretending to be. If you don't want to be friends with a woman (and if you're very attracted to her and/or find her attractive at all + have trouble getting dates, so cannot befriend women you find attractive at all, I agree, it's 100% a bad idea), DON'T BE FRIENDS WITH HER. But don't get angry at HER because YOU acted like you were cool being friends but secretly weren't. That seems. . . self-defeating.

 

(Now, in cases like Phineas brings up, where a girl claims to be friends, then kisses you. . . well, those girls are just crazy.)

 

 

 

She's likely an extroverted, gregarious person who sells sessions for a living and talks to people nonstop, invading their space (personal trainer) FOR A LIVING. That's who she is. Don't confuse her psychology with your own, or anyone's, as it'll make you unhappy. Maybe she does have male friends, does want male friends, and wanted to be your friend. Maybe she just wanted to make the $$$ of your sessions. Maybe a little of both and she just likes talking/emailing people. There are a million explanations, and it's probably one big mishmosh combination.

 

I guess whether or not I think she did anything "wrong" or even unusual would depend on what the "flirting" was, but I would have never thought a woman who talked about her ex with you was interested and am surprised you thought so.

 

I mean does every guy I talk to think I am potentially interested in him? Should he? It cuts both ways. That said, if she was truly flirting (I am not sure how good a judge you are, because of the exBF discussions thing), then, yes, it's lame. But when you asked her out, she asserted what she thought the relationship was right away. You don't want that relationship. That's your perogative, but it's possible she didn't really "do" anything but be herself.

 

This sounds like how the personal trainer would view the situation. So her perspective is she is just friendly and nice, and she is pretty shocked she thinks you think she is using her looks+flirting with you to drum up business.

 

I would suspect this trainer is completely unable to see your perspective of the situation. To you this girl is acting very flirty and nice (because she is) talking about past boyfriends, says she dates guys from the gym, etc. I don't think she's COMPLETELY oblivious to how she's acting. I do think she's very insensitive to you as a person, and for that reason I would switch trainers.

 

Sorry if this offends you zengirl. I just think your post is from the viewpoint of the girl (or more closely resembles it than say, my post, which clearly isn't from her viewpoint).

[fishtaco]

My hairdresser and preferred cashier at the grocery did the same thing once they began recognizing me as a repeat customer. It didn't make me think they wanted to date. Some of the supply and distributor reps I've dealt with do it too with some mild flirty overtones. They just want you to believe they like you for more than just the money involved.

 

I can't say I disagree with sally4sara's point.

 

When you're in a situation, be prepared that the person will use every tool at his or her disposal to get to the goal. Be aware of the motives.

 

This is just how the world works. Playing defense is our own individual personal responsibility. No baby sitting, we are all adults.

 

But I do hope sally4sara isn't in this just for the gender war. When the situation has reversed gender, it's the same. No baby sitting. If I want something from a woman, I get to use whatever I have, to achieve my goal. It's her own responsibility to play defense.

 

With that said, again, tincanman99, I thought you handled this well. You went for resolution, found the answer, high five from me.

 

But now you know, you can play this exact same game too, when it's to your advantage. I do. Hey, this is just how I am. If she misinterpreted it, not my problem. It's her responsibility to find out what I'm about.

[sally4sara]

I can't say I disagree with sally4sara's point.

 

When you're in a situation, be prepared that the person will use every tool at his or her disposal to get to the goal. Be aware of the motives.

 

This is just how the world works. Playing defense is our own individual personal responsibility. No baby sitting, we are all adults.

 

But I do hope sally4sara isn't in this just for the gender war. When the situation has reversed gender, it's the same. No baby sitting. If I want something from a woman, I get to use whatever I have, to achieve my goal. It's her own responsibility to play defense.

With that said, again, tincanman99, I thought you handled this well. You went for resolution, found the answer, high five from me.

 

But now you know, you can play this exact same game too, when it's to your advantage. I do. Hey, this is just how I am. If she misinterpreted it, not my problem. It's her responsibility to find out what I'm about.

 

Oh hell no. This is simple don't be a sucker and then act duped stuff. I'd be the same if the OP was a chick going on about a male trainer.

 

The OP is trying to make this a gender thing tho. She's a trainer and makes money with it, she made friendly chit chat - if she isn't willing to go out with him she is no different than what he would get in a strip club? He is blowing smoke here. I'm sure he and his current trainer talk about more than just workouts. Somehow that's acceptable but the other one has to date him to talk about life and get paid for her service.

[Woggle]

She is simply trying to get new costumers. Be a little bit more careful of falling for a sales pitch next time.

[CloudLiver]

Jesus, why would you tell her she's beautiful and you'd like to take her out? If she's pretty, she gets this all the time. Set yourself apart and ask her for her number and go swimming, bowling, skiiing, etc.

 

Action dates.

 

Guys, stop telling girls what you think of them. They lose attraction for you instantly.

[dispatch3d]

I think I understand why to women talking about other guys they may date is a clear sign they aren't interested. They think this way because these are the things they talk about with their female friends (and they mistakenly think it's also okay to talk about them with the male friends they aren't interested in, because since they aren't interested in you vice versa should also be true).

 

In hindsight, I would say once a girl starts mentioning guys she's considering dating decide right then whether you are interested in just friends or not. Also consider whether you actually want to talk about that crap with them (probably not). I would say if the answers both align to things you don't want cut ties. There is always the danger that they try to unwittingly use you for a male perspective, and feed your ego by pretending to flirt during it.

[SxB]

She was using you as an ego boost like some one FZ'ing you.

 

She isn't interested in you at all. She doesn't like you.

 

To help you in the future:

 

What happened is that RIGHT in the beginning she already was not interested in you, but she needs to have everyone liking her and she felt you weren't interested in her and it bothered her, so all though it looks like she has buckets of selfworth all it took was some one not being interested in her to make her question her selfimage and she had to go and fix that.

 

Now she has what she wants and is continuing to be delighted by the ego you're giving to her by reassuring her of how great and wonderful she is by being attracted to her by keeping in contact with her.

 

Next time when you're interested in some one, it doesn't matter where you are at just get there number right from the start, if a woman pushes away when you start aiming towards trying to get her number right in the beginning then it means she isn't interested in you (the way they push away is by saying they have to go).

[tincanman99]

She was using you as an ego boost like some one FZ'ing you.

 

She isn't interested in you at all. She doesn't like you.

 

To help you in the future:

 

What happened is that RIGHT in the beginning she already was not interested in you, but she needs to have everyone liking her and she felt you weren't interested in her and it bothered her, so all though it looks like she has buckets of selfworth all it took was some one not being interested in her to make her question her selfimage and she had to go and fix that.

 

Now she has what she wants and is continuing to be delighted by the ego you're giving to her by reassuring her of how great and wonderful she is by being attracted to her by keeping in contact with her.

 

Next time when you're interested in some one, it doesn't matter where you are at just get there number right from the start, if a woman pushes away when you start aiming towards trying to get her number right in the beginning then it means she isn't interested in you (the way they push away is by saying they have to go).

 

I already cut off contact with her.

[lino]

Man this is making a huge problem out of a small one.

If you're going to use personal trainers, just use guys from now on. I think it'll solve your problem and give you better results too!

[phineas]

Man this is making a huge problem out of a small one.

If you're going to use personal trainers, just use guys from now on. I think it'll solve your problem and give you better results too!

 

He's related to his female trainer somehow.

He's the godfather to her kids.

 

But yeah, I agree with this.

 

Personally just going to one of the bodybuilding forums & posting your workout so the members can unmercifully rip it to shreds & call you a girly-man pretty much got me on the road to sveltness.

 

Haven't actually made it, but there is progress.

[zengirl]

My hairdresser and preferred cashier at the grocery did the same thing once they began recognizing me as a repeat customer. It didn't make me think they wanted to date. Some of the supply and distributor reps I've dealt with do it too with some mild flirty overtones. They just want you to believe they like you for more than just the money involved.

 

I agree with this. And sometimes it's an act and sometimes it's NOT. My hairdresser and I are friends. I tip her well, and I'm sure she likes my business and the other friends/new clients I've sent her, but she's been doing my hair for several months and we're friends now. Probably the third time or so I went in there, we exchanged phone numbers and made plans to hang out. I don't feel like that's altogether uncommon. I sincerely liked a lot of my clients when I sold advertising and, in addition to always trying to do what was best for their business (tempered with what was best for mine as well, yes), I saw some of them as friends. Some still are. When I moved to the area I'm in now --- an area I used to travel for business years ago, in advertising --- my first friends here were some old clients I'd kept up with through the years.

 

I know the world would be simpler if there were super-clear lines between "Business" and "Friendship" and "Flirting" but I'm not sure that's totally realistic. That said, if she was intentionally flirting or if she found his company tedious and was pretending elsewhere, it kind of sucks, though I do get why someone would do it for business (Sales professions are just draining in general --- but a lot of people who do well in them sincerely like other people in general and find few people tedious).

 

I dont need any more female "friends" that want my $$. I can go to strip clubs if I need those kind of friends.

 

It was always in the back of my mind that she was friendly to get business. I am not quite that stupid .

 

Then why be upset about it?

 

Than she started sending me emails telling me that I made her smile and how it brightened her day when she saw me, thanking me for listening to her, she cant wait to see me at the gym and all kinds of other crap.

 

And thats what it was crap. You tell me what a guy wouldnt think what I thought?

 

It's not something I'd do, perse, but I'm not 100% sure I'd see it as flirting. I'm really not. I thank my male friends for listening to me sometimes (female friends too!) and look forward to seeing them sometimes and they brighten my day sometimes. None of that is outside the realms of friendship. Sounds kind of sentimental, and I'm not the sentimental sort so I don't phrase it like that, but I think you missed some clear "Not interested in you like that!" signs so, again, hard to say how each party viewed the situation.

 

Though OF COURSE there's no need to be friends with someone you didn't want to be friends with, but if you really wanted to ask her out why did you wait WEEKS to do so?

 

She txted me last night like 5 times and emailed me like 4 times because I did not respond.

 

This is a bit odd, in general, and I don't like people who do such things. She may be an attentionwhore. She may be a girl who thought you were friends and now feels weird/bad about the situation. I really don't know. And, honestly, to a degree, it doesn't matter --- feeling angry is silly. You fed the situation as much as she did.

 

Next time, if you want to date a girl, don't be her friend for weeks first or listen to stories about her exes or whatnot. Express your interest early on. It'll be better for both of you.

 

This sounds like how the personal trainer would view the situation. So her perspective is she is just friendly and nice, and she is pretty shocked she thinks you think she is using her looks+flirting with you to drum up business.

 

I would suspect this trainer is completely unable to see your perspective of the situation. To you this girl is acting very flirty and nice (because she is) talking about past boyfriends, says she dates guys from the gym, etc. I don't think she's COMPLETELY oblivious to how she's acting. I do think she's very insensitive to you as a person, and for that reason I would switch trainers.

 

Sorry if this offends you zengirl. I just think your post is from the viewpoint of the girl (or more closely resembles it than say, my post, which clearly isn't from her viewpoint).

 

I don't know what the trainer was getting at or deny that some people (men and women!) are attentionwhores. I just don't know that the OP sounds objective or easily able to read the signals of flirting vs. friendship, that's all. I wouldn't act like the trainer because it's not my personality (I am very friendly, but I'm also very private with new people and would keep topics to much shallower depths until I knew someone well --- though my male friends know about my past relationships, etc, as I talk to them because they're my friends), but I think it's impossible for the OP to judge her motives because he clearly didn't understand them earlier so is not a good judge and is now angry about the situation, thus more prone to distort her perceived motives to feed that anger. Just human nature.

 

She does sound a bit tiresome, honestly. I doubt she and I could be friends.

 

I think I understand why to women talking about other guys they may date is a clear sign they aren't interested. They think this way because these are the things they talk about with their female friends (and they mistakenly think it's also okay to talk about them with the male friends they aren't interested in, because since they aren't interested in you vice versa should also be true).

 

My male friends talk to me about their relationships, as do I with them, and I don't think it's "mistaken" at all for us to do so. We are friends. I don't talk about menstrual cycles with my male friends (don't really talk about it with my female friends) but I cannot think of any other topic that'd be off the table.

 

Men like a female perspective on their relationships sometimes too. I don't understand the atttitude that women would "unwittingly use men" for this, as you say later. There's no unwitting about it; we use our friends for perspectives on lots of things. I ask my friends who have experiences and expertise I don't have in many areas what they think, and I also talk/vent to my friends sometimes, too. That's what friends are.

 

The problem is when men (or women) try to be "friends" without making it clear they really, really aren't a friend.

[Ross PK]

I would totally not bother seeing her again.

 

I would be really pissed off that she pretended to fancy me, and got all my hopes up, just so she could make some money from me accpeting her to be my trainer.

 

In fact I would probably send her a text telling her that. And hire a different woman trainer at that same gym, just to piss her off.

 

Women shouldn't play around with men like that at all.

[dispatch3d]

Wow zengirl i'm actually amazed you take her side in this. The last message by op was pretty Whoaish. The girl is just swimming in the land of inappropriate behaviour. I would safely guess she is insecure about her ability as a trainer.

 

You could just message her that you think she's a great trainer but the line between the two of you has just blurred too much to stay with her. It may help her calm down.

[tincanman99]

He's related to his female trainer somehow.

He's the godfather to her kids.

 

But yeah, I agree with this.

 

Personally just going to one of the bodybuilding forums & posting your workout so the members can unmercifully rip it to shreds & call you a girly-man pretty much got me on the road to sveltness.

 

Haven't actually made it, but there is progress.

 

There are 2 trainers in this situation - my current one whom is pregnant and I am the godfather of her daughter. She is not coming back after the birth of this one.

 

I lost 45lbs with the her and she made me into a lean mean fighting machine . I have to say she is good at what she does.

 

And there is the second one whom decided she would cut herself in on the action when my trainer went on maternity leave.

[tincanman99]

It's not something I'd do, perse, but I'm not 100% sure I'd see it as flirting. I'm really not. I thank my male friends for listening to me sometimes (female friends too!) and look forward to seeing them sometimes and they brighten my day sometimes. None of that is outside the realms of friendship. Sounds kind of sentimental, and I'm not the sentimental sort so I don't phrase it like that, but I think you missed some clear "Not interested in you like that!" signs so, again, hard to say how each party viewed the situation.

 

Though OF COURSE there's no need to be friends with someone you didn't want to be friends with, but if you really wanted to ask her out why did you wait WEEKS to do so?

 

So what do you define as flirting?

 

Does sending me emails telling me that I made her smile and how it brightened her day when she saw me, thanking me for listening to her, she cant wait to see me at the gym and all kinds of other crap count as flirting?

 

Do you send emails to your male friends telling them that they made you smile and they brightened your day? Somehow I doubt it.

 

Why did I wait weeks?

 

Because I wanted to feel her out. Sometimes she uses vague language about a "friend" and the friend turned out to be a guy she was seeing her treated her like crap.

 

Maybe I need to be more aggressive up front in the future....

[westernxer]

I already cut off contact with her.

 

Good job, man.

 

You're there to work out, not deal with psycho love vampires.

[SxB]

I already cut off contact with her.

 

Not really, you're still talking about her.

[stepka]

I would say that easily 50-60% of female flirting is validation-seeking rather then interest.

The same % probably applies to men and the older I get the higher the %.

 

Don't take her antics personally. In fact, use the opportunity to flirt as target practice, but don't say anything else that puts you in her sucker drawer. She wants to play, so play right back.

I agree with this. You've got to figure out how to get your swag back, man. Don't let her see you averting your eyes or acting uncomfortable in her presence and sometime an opportunity will arise. Oh yeah, and keep flirting with her for now. This will be great practice for the future too. I hate that we all have to play games with each other, but it seems to be the way the world works, so have fun with it and when you score those swag points you'll be riding high.

[zengirl]

Wow zengirl i'm actually amazed you take her side in this. The last message by op was pretty Whoaish. The girl is just swimming in the land of inappropriate behaviour. I would safely guess she is insecure about her ability as a trainer.

 

Not taking anyone's side. I wouldn't call her behavior inappropriate so much as immature. I would say neither she, nor the OP acted perfectly, but nobody was terribly "wronged" here.

 

We dont know her motives, really. We can speculate. The most nefarious they are is she was flirting for business. I don't think that's great, but it's not really THAT awful --- and it's not 100% certain that (a) Flirting occurred or was intended and (b) She didn't truly enjoy spending time with the OP and like him beyond a client (aka as a friend).

 

We do know the OP's motives. He wanted to date her. She didn't pretend to want to date him so far as I've seen in his posts (I would say she's a bit overly familiar with people she's only known a few weeks, for my taste, but the OP was fine with this until it turned out she didn't want to date him). The OP caused himself a lot of heartache by pretending to be her friend and client, when he was really a potential suitor and expected she feel the same.

 

So what do you define as flirting?

 

Does sending me emails telling me that I made her smile and how it brightened her day when she saw me, thanking me for listening to her, she cant wait to see me at the gym and all kinds of other crap count as flirting?

 

Do you send emails to your male friends telling them that they made you smile and they brightened your day? Somehow I doubt it.

 

Why did I wait weeks?

 

Because I wanted to feel her out. Sometimes she uses vague language about a "friend" and the friend turned out to be a guy she was seeing her treated her like crap.

 

Maybe I need to be more aggressive up front in the future....

 

I don't really send emails to my friends who are local . . . and, as I said, my personality isn't the same as hers. But I don't think saying "You brighten my day" is romantic. I've thanked male friends (much closer than you and her) for being in my life, cheering me up, making me smile, etc, just as I have female friends. I'm not familiar with people very quickly (i.e. just a few weeks) so I don't act as she does, but that has nothing to do with flirting vs. not flirting. It's a personality thing.

 

She might have been excited to have made a new friend/client. She might have thought it'd help her get business. She might have been attentionwhoring. I don't really have enough to say, honestly. But I see nothing overtly romantic about anything you've said, no. And "feeling a girl out" while EXPECTING her to react the way you want (i.e. Want romance and not friendship) is just never a good idea. I'm not saying come on super-strong or start grabbing girls and kissing them in the middle of the gym, but asking a girl out on a date isn't going to scare her off unless she's in high school OR not going to go out with you anyway IMO.

 

Not really, you're still talking about her.

 

True that.

[fortyninethousand322]

Situations like this are exactly the reason why whenever a girl show me any kind of attention or expresses interest I immediately start questioning her motives and only rarely after serious thought express interest back. If you assume no one is interested you can't get your signals crossed.

[fishtaco]

Oh hell no. This is simple don't be a sucker and then act duped stuff. I'd be the same if the OP was a chick going on about a male trainer.

 

Thank you. Then I agree with you 100%.

 

But in tincanman99's defense, many people aren't born with this knowledge. I had to make the same mistake he did multiple times until I learned my lesson.

 

So overall, I'd say he did well. I probably would have done the same thing, except be less surprised about it, because I would consider this outcome to have a much higher probability than if there was genuine interest. But, if she's hot it'd be worth a shot anyway. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

Situations like this are exactly the reason why whenever a girl show me any kind of attention or expresses interest I immediately start questioning her motives and only rarely after serious thought express interest back. If you assume no one is interested you can't get your signals crossed.

 

Absolutely. Any man, until he learns this fact, will find the dating world extremely confusing, and most likely will be unable to get any traction.

 

Although I would make one modification. When a woman expresses interest in you, unless you find her repulsive, you should immediately express interest right back, while you figure out what she wants, and if you are even interested in her. If you don't like her motive, or if you decide you're not interested in her after all, you could always stop flirting.

 

This is like shaking hands. Someone reaches out for a handshake, you shake it, unless you don't want to have anything to do with the person. Same deal. A woman flirts with you, so you flirt back, whether you meant it or not doesn't matter. It's just a handshake.

 

A big part of dating, in the beginning, is the ability to operate effectively while the signals are unclear. So if you're worried about getting the signals crossed and therefore you don't react, then you're not playing. If you don't play, you don't win.