Why Do Women Do This? What Is The Point?

[dreamingoftigers]

It sounds like there is something a little weirdo with her.

 

Having two X chromosomes gives me a little bit of a different perspective.

 

There was ego here even more then business. Ego ego ego.

 

She wanted the validation, you notice how hot she was and be her friend.

 

I think she wanted the business and the "friendship" which is also exactly what she said.

 

She is the type to have non-reciprocal friendships. You are her friend, she isn't yours. As well she wanted to keep you on the hook as flattery guy or temptation guy.

 

Kind of guy that she can flirt with and tell friendly secrets to while getting money. She's "hot and friendly" and you validate her ego by giving her that friendship while hoping to date her (and she can tell) and then giving her money.

 

What tripped her up is you actually asking. Or else she could have had the teasing/ego boost dynamic going on for months. Lucky you.

 

Some women need a ton of validation, it is fun for them and a bit of a trip.

I know tons like these and they are usually pretty good-looking.

 

Honestly women like this treat other people like decorations.

[fishtaco]

Good job. I think you did everything right.

 

Women flirt. But you NEVER know the real reason they flirt. So if you're interested, find out. Asking her out was the most direct way. Kudos. Because once you do that, they can't BS around anymore. I call it forcing a resolution. That's how you get out of ambiguity.

 

There is this chick at my gym. Hot lady, past her prime, maybe that's why she's desperate for validation. She got all touchy feely with me the first time I spoke to her. Ever since then, I've been dodging her. I'm just there to work out, not to chat and keep her company. I see some other dudes that fall for it all the time. Suckers.

[dreamingoftigers]

Good job. I think you did everything right.

 

Women flirt. But you NEVER know the real reason they flirt. So if you're interested, find out. Asking her out was the most direct way. Kudos. Because once you do that, they can't BS around anymore. I call it forcing a resolution. That's how you get out of ambiguity.

 

There is this chick at my gym. Hot lady, past her prime, maybe that's why she's desperate for validation. She got all touchy feely with me the first time I spoke to her. Ever since then, I've been dodging her. I'm just there to work out, not to chat and keep her company. I see some other dudes that fall for it all the time. Suckers.

 

I would say that easily 50-60% of female flirting is validation-seeking rather then interest.

[fishtaco]

I would say that easily 50-60% of female flirting is validation-seeking rather then interest.

 

And I would agree with you. With maybe another 20-30% of other motives, such as office politics, boredom, practice, making the guy she likes jealous... etc.

[EasyHeart]

I would say that easily 50-60% of female flirting is validation-seeking rather then interest.

I think that's true in general, but this situation is different because it's business.

 

Women in business flirt, especially if they're trying to sell something. It can be confusing when you first run into it, but after awhile you realize that it's just a basic part of marketing nowadays. And it can be annoying when we fall for it (I certainly have!), but if you separate yourself from it and look at it intellectually, it just makes good business sense: the goal is to make the sale, and it doesn't really matter how you separate the fool from his money.

 

I've noticed that most of the salesclerks in men's clothing stores are now women. 10-15 years ago, you would almost never see a woman in a the men's department; now it's almost all women. (One interesting experiment: Go to the mall and compare the attractiveness level of the saleswomen working in the men's clothing departments. I guarantee you'll find that the women are get better-looking as you move from the less-expensive to the more-expensive stores (eg Sears --> Macy's --> Bloomingdale's --> Nordstrom's))

 

I now always assume that any woman who is trying to sell me something is just flirting to get my money. As long as you know the game, it can actually be kind of fun. And you can often actually get better service by flirting back. And you can use it to your advantage as well. I've learned to flirt a little with the middle-aged women I encounter through work, and they seem to be much more willing to do stuff for me than for other people. So it can work both ways. Heck, I live in an area with a very large gay population, and I even flirt with guys sometimes. If it gets me better service, why not?

 

Like others have said, don't take this trainer's behavior personally. She didn't target you or treat you any differently than she would any other guy. She's (I assume) young and cute, so she's just using what she's got to make a living. Learn from the experience and, now that you've learned to recognize it, don't fall for the next woman who does the same thing.

[dreamingoftigers]

The thing that mainly screams "ego trip" is that she started talking about her romantic life. EGO. it is a friendshipial thing.

[tincanman99]

If you want to to be purely business than dont tell me about your personal life and tell me about the guys you are dating and asking for my input. Dont share all kinds of personal information with me about your life, where you live and become emotionally intimate with me by confiding all kinds of crap to me.

 

Basically she wanted all the perks - me as a friend, a male admirer, someone to flirt with and as a paying customer.

[sally4sara]

So you go to a gym and you already have a female trainer that I'm guessing charges you for her services.

 

Are part of those services going out to dinner with you and entertaining the possibility of a relationship? If so then I can understand you being disappointed that it wouldn't be a service THIS trainer is willing to provide too while your regular trainer is on leave.

 

But if it isn't part of the services your current trainer provides, I'm not sure the other one deserves scorn from you for having no interest in dating. You clearly like the flirty demeanor she employs in how she interacts with clients - it wasn't enough for you to dust her off before. Your current trainer who's judgment you find good enough to have her as a trainer in the first place TOLD YOU the other one was flirty to gain more clients. It is only because you found her attractive and wanted access to her body but she didn't feel the same about you that she is now on your **** list. Her being attractive does not mean she would be a bad trainer. Her not dating you does not mean she would be a bad trainer.

 

A woman doesn't owe you something because she is found attractive by you. And even knowing she flirts with no real intentions before hand didn't have you too upset to consider her as a trainer. So why now?

 

Oh yeah, because you got rejected.

[carhill]

Yep, men are the only people who must maintain standards of behavior. Everything else is nebulous and situational.

 

The OP wanted to know why this happens and what the point of it is. Looks like wisdom and life experience was shared.

 

Personally, I think women using sex or the intimation of it to sell something is deplorable. In the anecdote I shared in another thread about the employee moonlighting during work hours trying to gain my business, we fired her.

Edited April 2, 2011 by carhill

[sally4sara]

Yes, so much better to just let men in advertising do it to sell their clients' products to you.

 

He was informed. He chose to ignore the information. Now he is pissed?

 

But he wasn't pissed when it was happening. And I call BS on him thinking because she spoke to him about personal stuff (none of which indicated she had romantic interest in him BTW) that she was wanting to date him.

[carhill]

Men use the lure of sex to sell products to women? Do tell. I haven't seen that in my 30+ years as an adult.

 

The OP is entitled to his feelings as much as you are. Move on.

[refurb]

OP, I would use this as an opportunity to run a game experiment. She's obviously not relationship material, but if you do the right things, you'll get her head spinning (if you want to).

 

RF

[johan]

There was a bit of bait and switch involved on her part. It wouldn't be unheard of for a woman (or man) to set up a business relationship as a way to get to spend more time with someone they wouldn't be able get to know otherwise. The original poster may have gotten some signals (or may just have gotten his hopes up) that that's what she was up to. Now he's disappointed that the opposite is true.

 

Should he be mad at her or himself or at all? Probably at himself for letting a pretty girl take advantage of him. At at her for taking advantage of him. And probably the circumstances he's in in general, because he was even a candidate to be taken advantage of like that. Why doesn't he already have a great girlfriend who would make a hot trainer irrelevant?

[tincanman99]

Yes, so much better to just let men in advertising do it to sell their clients' products to you.

 

He was informed. He chose to ignore the information. Now he is pissed?

 

But he wasn't pissed when it was happening. And I call BS on him thinking because she spoke to him about personal stuff (none of which indicated she had romantic interest in him BTW) that she was wanting to date him.

 

I dont understand what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with what my current trainer provides. And I dont date her, nor sleep with her. That being said my existing trainer is my friend and I am the godfather of her daughter.

 

This has nothing to do with her providing additional "services". Look, you want to train me thats fine.

 

You can tell me that she didnt know what she was doing via flaunting her sexuality and using emotional intimacy to achieve her goals. And this was even before she brought up the other men. In the last 2-3 weeks we have become very close.

 

I rolled with it because I liked her. Its not something I particularly wanted because I had been warned. We were very friendly before I asked her organize my workouts and before mentioning of other men.

 

Not for one minute did I ever think that her mentioning other men was an indicator of interest.

 

She is NOT training me, she puts together the work outs for me and I do them by MYSELF. She doesnt help, spot me, coach me or anything. I just needed someone to organize them for me and I offered to pay her for her time. Thats it.

 

She started it with me, not vice versa. I used to see her, say hi and go about my business. Than she would come over, give me a hard time and flirt with me. Started telling me about her life, where she lived, what she liked and on and on. I knew for sure she like the attention.

 

What man is not going to think that a woman likes him when she comes over to him and sits with him on the floor and chats him up? And not once or twice but multiple times.

[tincanman99]

There was a bit of bait and switch involved on her part. It wouldn't be unheard of for a woman (or man) to set up a business relationship as a way to get to spend more time with someone they wouldn't be able get to know otherwise. The original poster may have gotten some signals (or may just have gotten his hopes up) that that's what she was up to. Now he's disappointed that the opposite is true.

 

Should he be mad at her or himself or at all? Probably at himself for letting a pretty girl take advantage of him. At at her for taking advantage of him. And probably the circumstances he's in in general, because he was even a candidate to be taken advantage of like that. Why doesn't he already have a great girlfriend who would make a hot trainer irrelevant?

 

Your points are quite valid but I was friendly with her before I asked for her help.

 

I dont call a woman coming and sitting with you on the floor and chatting you up while you are stretching confused signals. Nor do I call it confused signals when she came over and chatted me up while I was running on the treadmill.

[sally4sara]

Men use the lure of sex to sell products to women? Do tell. I haven't seen that in my 30+ years as an adult.

 

The OP is entitled to his feelings as much as you are. Move on.

 

Have you never watched TV, or opened a magazine? Do you think only women work at advertising agencies? The female form and its appeal is used to sell almost everything to everyone.

 

For him to get so upset with her, he needs to feel what she was offering him was false. He was told her demeanor was just a way to promote herself as a trainer; not a professional girlfriend. So what was it he thought he would be getting when she offered to be his trainer while his current one was on leave?

 

I just don't get why he is playing duped here to the point where he wouldn't respond to her when she said goodbye and wants her to leave him alone as though she can't do the job he was told she was promoting with her demeanor. If he doesn't like that style of advertising, and was told it was just her style of advertising the moment she attempted it, why did he respond to it at all?

[sally4sara]

What man is not going to think that a woman likes him when she comes over to him and sits with him on the floor and chats him up? And not once or twice but multiple times.

 

If a guy trainer started talking to you a lot and came over to sit down and chat with a on many occasions - would you have thought he wanted you to ask him out too?

[zengirl]

So she is getting really friendly with me. Starts telling me about some guy she had dated, a child, he is a cop and is a prize of the worst kind. Than the next thing you know she is telling me she is going on a date with a guy from the gym she just met. So I said the heck with it and threw my hat in the ring.

 

Are you sure she was flirting with you? It sounds to me like she just wanted your business/as a trainer. She is even talking about guys she's dating/dated. If I am interested in a guy, I would NEVER EVER do that. So file that one away---any time a gal does that, I would sincerely question either her interest in you or her maturity or both. I mean, I talk about guys I've dated/am dating with my male friends, because they're friends.

 

But she's possibly (I really cannot tell from your story) just wanting attention -- from everyone. People do that crap. It sucks.

 

I told her I think she is beautiful and that I am incredibly attracted to her. Let me take you to dinner, I will treat you right.

 

Also, another tip: That sounds like coming on pretty damn strong. Even if I was into someone if they said they'd "Treat me right," I'd know they were WAY not the guy for me. Guys who are obsessed with that idea and are just a tad too forward have never worked out for me. (This is not to say that treating a girl right is bad; doing = good; saying = something strange here.) A date offer shouldn't be complex.

 

All this crap and I just sat there and let it go. I was like ok. I was thinking I dont need to be another male friend that she treats like a female friend. I have no interest in this.

 

Then why did you wait several weeks to ask her out? If you had no intention of being her friend, why pretend at it for weeks on end? It seems like it'd only go somewhere bad. This is why I say the "Friend Zone" is a male myth. They make friends with a woman, then pretend she put them in some Zone because she thinks they're just friends. . . which is what they actually have been acting like/pretending to be. If you don't want to be friends with a woman (and if you're very attracted to her and/or find her attractive at all + have trouble getting dates, so cannot befriend women you find attractive at all, I agree, it's 100% a bad idea), DON'T BE FRIENDS WITH HER. But don't get angry at HER because YOU acted like you were cool being friends but secretly weren't. That seems. . . self-defeating.

 

(Now, in cases like Phineas brings up, where a girl claims to be friends, then kisses you. . . well, those girls are just crazy.)

 

If you have no interest in me than leave me alone, dont come over, flirt with me non-stop, invade my space, email all the time and than do this.

 

What is the point? Just leave me alone.

 

She's likely an extroverted, gregarious person who sells sessions for a living and talks to people nonstop, invading their space (personal trainer) FOR A LIVING. That's who she is. Don't confuse her psychology with your own, or anyone's, as it'll make you unhappy. Maybe she does have male friends, does want male friends, and wanted to be your friend. Maybe she just wanted to make the $$$ of your sessions. Maybe a little of both and she just likes talking/emailing people. There are a million explanations, and it's probably one big mishmosh combination.

 

I guess whether or not I think she did anything "wrong" or even unusual would depend on what the "flirting" was, but I would have never thought a woman who talked about her ex with you was interested and am surprised you thought so.

 

I mean does every guy I talk to think I am potentially interested in him? Should he? It cuts both ways. That said, if she was truly flirting (I am not sure how good a judge you are, because of the exBF discussions thing), then, yes, it's lame. But when you asked her out, she asserted what she thought the relationship was right away. You don't want that relationship. That's your perogative, but it's possible she didn't really "do" anything but be herself.

[zengirl]

Yep, men are the only people who must maintain standards of behavior. Everything else is nebulous and situational.

 

The OP wanted to know why this happens and what the point of it is. Looks like wisdom and life experience was shared.

 

Personally, I think women using sex or the intimation of it to sell something is deplorable. In the anecdote I shared in another thread about the employee moonlighting during work hours trying to gain my business, we fired her.

 

Personally, when I sold advertising, I was never comfortable "using" the fact that I was a pretty girl to sell it. . . . but that doesn't mean I could stop being a pretty girl, or that I should be cold instead of friendly (I *am* friendly, and everyone who sells anything *should* be friendly, of course) to make up for being pretty. I never flirted with clients, but some no doubt gave me more business because I was a cute, fun, gregarious young woman. Some no doubt thought I was flirting just because I was talking to them, smiling, and being a pretty girl at the same time and not wearing a giant sign that says, "No, I'm not flirting with you." Some even asked me out, which I tried to navigate away from as gracefully as possible (It's embarrassing! And technically bordering on sexual harassment, but it was never intended that way, that I felt, at least.) That's. . . life.

 

At first, it even bothered me to know that (a) It helped me and (b) My male colleagues thought it unfair. However, my male colleagues had advantages on certain kinds of accounts where I, as a girl, would be seen as "Not one of the boys" or "Not understanding how to reach men" --- whatever. Fussing about these things makes no one happy.

 

I do agree that proper behavior is important, but I don't know that there's enough in this story to suggest the woman did something improper or deliberately provocative. Seems a leap to me.

Edited April 2, 2011 by zengirl

[johan]

I just don't get why he is playing duped here to the point where he wouldn't respond to her when she said goodbye and wants her to leave him alone as though she can't do the job he was told she was promoting with her demeanor.

 

Because he's pissed. Because he's disappointed. What's not to get? Maybe what you mean to say is that you think he shouldn't be pissed. But I'm pretty sure you get it.

 

Should he be pissed? My last post goes into that. I think it's understandable, but with experience he'll know better when a situation like this is developing. Next time he'll think less of it and maybe see it for what it is. And he'll respond accordingly.

[dreamingoftigers]

So you go to a gym and you already have a female trainer that I'm guessing charges you for her services.

 

Are part of those services going out to dinner with you and entertaining the possibility of a relationship? If so then I can understand you being disappointed that it wouldn't be a service THIS trainer is willing to provide too while your regular trainer is on leave.

 

But if it isn't part of the services your current trainer provides, I'm not sure the other one deserves scorn from you for having no interest in dating. You clearly like the flirty demeanor she employs in how she interacts with clients - it wasn't enough for you to dust her off before. Your current trainer who's judgment you find good enough to have her as a trainer in the first place TOLD YOU the other one was flirty to gain more clients. It is only because you found her attractive and wanted access to her body but she didn't feel the same about you that she is now on your **** list. Her being attractive does not mean she would be a bad trainer. Her not dating you does not mean she would be a bad trainer.

 

A woman doesn't owe you something because she is found attractive by you. And even knowing she flirts with no real intentions before hand didn't have you too upset to consider her as a trainer. So why now?

 

Oh yeah, because you got rejected.

 

I would agree with 90% of you post except one thing: her talking about her dating and personal life (confiding it would seem) and talking about going out with one other guy from the gym sets up an expectation. I would say that she is not being professional in this regard and even though OP might have not read her signals right, she did set up and knock down even if inadvertently.

 

I think if she hadn't brought the dating convo into it I would tell OP pretty similar to the above.

 

But by doing a set-up and take down like she did with someone she barely knows (and if she is a very attractive woman she knows the drill) that she set herself up to lose a potential client. In my business my clients hear very little about my marriage, if I were single again they would hear so little about my dating life. I do talk about my kid though. But that's because she is super-cute!

[sally4sara]

I would agree with 90% of you post except one thing: her talking about her dating and personal life (confiding it would seem) and talking about going out with one other guy from the gym sets up an expectation. I would say that she is not being professional in this regard and even though OP might have not read her signals right, she did set up and knock down even if inadvertently.

 

My hairdresser and preferred cashier at the grocery did the same thing once they began recognizing me as a repeat customer. It didn't make me think they wanted to date. Some of the supply and distributor reps I've dealt with do it too with some mild flirty overtones. They just want you to believe they like you for more than just the money involved.

[dreamingoftigers]

I dont understand what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with what my current trainer provides. And I dont date her, nor sleep with her. That being said my existing trainer is my friend and I am the godfather of her daughter.

 

This has nothing to do with her providing additional "services". Look, you want to train me thats fine.

 

You can tell me that she didnt know what she was doing via flaunting her sexuality and using emotional intimacy to achieve her goals. And this was even before she brought up the other men. In the last 2-3 weeks we have become very close.

 

I rolled with it because I liked her. Its not something I particularly wanted because I had been warned. We were very friendly before I asked her organize

my workouts and before mentioning of other men.

 

Not for one minute did I ever think that her mentioning other men was an indicator of interest.

 

She is NOT training me, she puts together the work outs for me and I do them by MYSELF. She doesnt help, spot me, coach me or anything. I just needed

someone to organize them for me and I offered to pay her for her time. Thats it.

 

She started it with me, not vice versa. I used to see her, say hi and go about my business. Than she would come over, give me a hard time and flirt with me. Started telling me about her life, where she lived, what she liked and on and on. I knew for sure she like the attention.

 

What man is not going to think that a woman likes him when she comes over to him and sits with him on the floor and chats him up? And not once or twice but multiple times.

 

Oh I misread this! I think that this is crossed wires not intentional validation.

Just crossed wires and her trying to be friends and friendly. I thought that she was your trainer while your other one was away and using her sexuality as a kind if hook. This says more that she isn't advertising as much at this point as being friendly.

 

Sorry OP:o

[dreamingoftigers]

My hairdresser and preferred cashier at the grocery did the same thing once they began recognizing me as a repeat customer. It didn't make me think they wanted to date. Some of the supply and distributor reps I've dealt with do it too with some mild flirty overtones. They just want you to believe they like you for more than just the money involved.

 

I didn't realize the circumstance, I thought that it seemed more thrown out there and blatant then it was. I also didn't realize it had been 2-3 weeks. To her 2-3 weeks would be clienty/friendshippy mode. Not surprising. I think men (often) get a little blinded when it is an attractive woman. It is probably more awkward to avoid her then just be cool when he sees her at the gym.

[mr.dream merchant]

Why do they do it? - Ego boost, exploitation, etc.

 

What can you do about it? - Nothing but tell her you won't be needing her services and stop talking to her.