Stuck

[FoolMeThrice]

My husband and I have been married just over 5 years, together for 8.

 

On Monday I discovered he has been talking with other women online. I don't know if it had progressed to an online affair yet, but it appears to have been headed that way.

 

This is the third time this has happened. Each time he expresses remorse and agrees to counseling. This time, I noticed he was distracted/stressed and kept asking what was going on. Basically he gave me a reason that I now think was a lie.

 

I have not confronted him about this most recent incident yet. I'm not quite sure how I want to handle this yet. On one hand I want him to confess, but I think his guilt and perhaps his other issues will prevent him from doing that. He is trying to set up an appointment with a counselor he saw before. I don't trust this counselor 'cause the last time he told my husband that he was "cured" after two visits.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm an idiot for putting up with this...but I don't want the marriage to end for lots of reasons, not the least of which is I love my husband and I think he loves me.

 

The last two times he has done this I was so distraught. This time, I haven't shed a tear. I've been angry and a little depressed, but I can't bring myself to cry. Is that a bad thing?

 

While I realize this is a public message board and everyone is free to give their opinions, please don't bash me for not kicking him to the curb.

 

I've also made an appointment with a counselor, but I'm having second thoughts about that now. And I think I'm going to install keylogger/tracking software on our computer at home.

 

I don't know if I'm in shock or what. I do feel like I'm living two lives. At home I'm pretending that everything is hunky-dory...but at work I can't concentrate and all I can think about is this mess.

Edited April 1, 2011 by FoolMeThrice
removed cross-posted link

[Spark1111]

I applaud you for installing a key-logger. FBS here....

 

You need to take back your life, your power and your control. If a keylogger validates your suspicions and provides you with concrete proof of his on-line shenanigans, so be it.

 

Keep your counseling appointment. Give it three sessions and no more to decide if this particular counselor can be of help to you. If not, find another and keep going until you "click" with someone. You will need someone to talk to as you make your decisions about your marriage.

 

You are calm and that is good, because you will then decide from a position of strength, no matter how long that may take you.

 

There are some people who have a real problem, a real addiction to internet attractions. Your husband may be one of these people. Unfortunately, addicts do not cannot change unless they are highly motivated to.

 

You will have to get to a point where YOU decide what is and is not acceptable in your relationship and in your future with each other.

 

Either he will take whatever means necessary to be that man for you, or he will not.

 

Only you can decide when enough is enough.

 

I wish you peace and strength as you figure this out.

 

Oftentimes, love (and counseling) is NOT enough to sustain a long-term relationship.

[Linda9999]

Another FBS here. I agree that you should keep your counseling appt. And that the keylogger is a good idea. Find out how far it's gone before you confront him. I am so sorry this keeps happening to you.

[Woman In Blue]

FoolMe, it appears you two just have a pattern that keeps playing itself over and over and over.

 

He gets 'lost' in the fantasy of chatting online and flirting, he gets caught, he claims he feels guilty, he goes to a therapist, it supposedly all goes away after his therapy, and then he does the same thing all over again.

 

And again.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Why do you think therapy is going to cure his desire to flirt and seek excitement? All humans naturally want a measure of some kind of excitement in their lives. What's therapy going to do? Tell him to squelch what he keeps feeling? That's ludicrous. How do you "cure" someone of a natural feeling?

 

The internet has just made it too damned easy for 'bored' people to seek excitement and get a 'quick fix' for what they feel they're lacking in life. Some people are content with a 'comfortable' love in marriage where the fireworks have long simmered down, and others just aren't, unfortunately. That doesn't make his inappropriate behavior RIGHT, that's not what I'm saying. There's obviously a 'pay off' for what he's doing or he wouldn't be doing it. I quit using chat programs a long time ago because I was totally fed up with the constant private IMs from married men looking for excitement. I find it nauseating and see them as pathetic, so please understand that I'm NOT condoning what he's doing.

 

But nothing changes if nothing changes, FoolMe. If you're simply going to catch him flirting online, send him off to therapy so they can proclaim he's "cured" of whatever supposed malady that makes him act HUMAN, then have at it. But it's just going to be a vicious cycle that plays itself out over and over and over again.

 

I think your better bet isn't to send him off to therapy yet again to be "cured" but instead, to try to find out what it IS he feels he's missing in your marriage that makes him continually seek out the attention of others.

[whichwayisup]

NOONE is fixed/cured after 2 counselling appointments.

 

Go with what your gut tells you and watch for action not his words.

[Frank13]

Counselling is such BS and I don't know why so many people encourage it.

 

Here is what the real issue is when people talk about counselling. One partner is no longer into the other so tries to find happiness with someone else. The betrayed partner still has feelings for the wayward one so wants to do counselling hoping it will make the wayward partner love them.

 

The counsellers spew their psychological BS and tell you it is all because of a bad childhood to string you along so they can make money off of you.

 

One of the main things people need to learn about human beings. We are designed to fall in love but we are not designed to stay in love.

[dreamingoftigers]

OKay okay okay,

 

Welcome to my marriage!

 

I hate to tell you this but this is what you've got pretty much (get it confirmed by a specialist in the field): you've got yourself a sexual addict.

 

And they can lie like a rug can only dream about lying.

And lie they will.

 

Please feel free to review any of my threads.

 

I may be wrong, but it just rings of the stop/start/lie/traditional counselor can't figure it out cycle. Get into a specialist and at least have it assessed. Do not let him minimize and lie to the professional. Mine lied to 5 counselors. Traditional counselors typically cannot see the scope of the addiction.

 

And he loves you and doesn't want to leave the marriage and withdraws etc.

 

Sexual addict.

 

All hope is not lost but if that is the case and you want to save the marriage you need to do all that you can to set some crazy firm boundaries and squelch it fast. It may seem small and he will try to minimize it all that he can. Do not believe anything you hear and less then half of what you see.

 

Your husband is not a bad person, but he has a busted template that can be repaired but it takes WORK

It is not a character defect although he will behave of poor character. It is not a moral issue, it is not something to be ashamed of. His brain circuitry is off right now and it is fixable. Do not give up fighting for your marriage. It depends how deep into the addiction he is, but he may not be able to empathize with you and blames you for certain things that he has no business shaming you about. Do not fall for it. Become like teflon and ignore the slings and arrows of lying addiction. Do not get drawn into conflict because he is protecting his addiction. It hurts what he is doing (trust me I know, like having your heart ripped out your ass!) but it is not personal to him. It is not.

I am not saying "it's okay, he lloooves you!" It's not okay and he is not acting loving and quite frankly us wives wouldn't mind having some sexual connection, duh! I am saying that you are not inadequate in any way, his brain is not functioning properly. There is an intimacy issue.

Your moods are going to be up, down and all over the place. It is important to stabilize yourself for both you and the marriage. Get any kind of outside help you can. Often the addicts and the spouse isolate themselves and everything goes up like a powder keg, do not make the same mistakes I did. Wasted two years crashing into walls.

Treatments include: (In order mostly!)

Specialist, see one in your area. Immediately, if he won't go, you go. Have him assessed.

 

Get into an S-anon, COSA or whatever group, it feels horrible at first. Try 6 meetings to see if it is for you.

 

Try some EMDR therapy for the trauma this has caused you. When it feels like you don't care anymore and you don't cry anymore over it, your brain simply just can't take it anymore.

 

Polygraph after disclosure. Some therapists disagree with this, guess what? There are women in my spouse's group that have had men go through treatment and lie during disclosure only to relapse again. Polygraph is a new standard of sexual addiction treatment.

 

Some readings:

 

Out of the Shadows

Facing the Shadow

Your Sexually Addicted Spouse*

Hope and Freedom for Sexual Addicts and their Partners*

(The man who wrote this book does intensives with couples. If you can afford $4800 I would totally do that, I can't so we do other things)

 

Laser therapy for sexual addiction (it's very new and I can let you know how it goes, not as crazy or scary as it sounds)

 

It is daunting! But it isn't as bad as it feels unless you let it overwhelm your life.

You may think it is nuts for me to claim this just based on a paragraph or two, but this cycle is getting so common, you would not believe it.

 

I may be nuts, but do not just take my word for it: Go see a specialist even if just to elminate it. You don't want to be wrong about this. Nuke the mosquito before it becomes a life-sucking vampire.

 

PM me if you need to when you get the ability.

 

Good luck

[dreamingoftigers]

Counselling is such BS and I don't know why so many people encourage it.

 

Here is what the real issue is when people talk about counselling. One partner is no longer into the other so tries to find happiness with someone else. The betrayed partner still has feelings for the wayward one so wants to do counselling hoping it will make the wayward partner love them.

 

The counsellers spew their psychological BS and tell you it is all because of a bad childhood to string you along so they can make money off of you.

 

One of the main things people need to learn about human beings. We are designed to fall in love but we are not designed to stay in love.

 

I would love to see the peer-reviewed sources for all of the above opinions.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh yeah, by the way. He will most likely at some point in this process manipulate/lie to you. Do not take this personally. I know that I just spoke Greek to you but humor me.

 

He will seem so genuine, heartfelt etc etc. and you know he may actually be, he may be swimming with guilt etc. You will know when he is lying almost every time but your gut. It gets that flip-flop. You learn to recognize it after awhile. It becomes quite accurate. You may also have trouble sleeping at night. Your brain/body can pick up on threats that you may not be consciously aware of. He may make excuses A LOT.

 

Your husband cannot fake intimacy. You just have to watch for the little cues. Porn/sex addicts tend to be awful at kissing and seem unconnected during sex with their partners. This is a very broad generalization and not taken as a symptom. Just something to halfway take notice of.

[FoolMeThrice]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input.

 

I don't have time to really respond right now and I want some time to digest all this.

 

I'll be back when I have more time.

 

Really - thank you!

[seeker2010]

 

It is not a character defect although he will behave of poor character. It is not a moral issue, it is not something to be ashamed of. His brain circuitry is off right now and it is fixable. Do not give up fighting for your marriage. It depends how deep into the addiction he is, but he may not be able to empathize with you and blames you for certain things that he has no business shaming you about. Do not fall for it. Become like teflon and ignore the slings and arrows of lying addiction. Do not get drawn into conflict because he is protecting his addiction. It hurts what he is doing (trust me I know, like having your heart ripped out your ass!) but it is not personal to him. It is not.

 

Your moods are going to be up, down and all over the place. It is important to stabilize yourself for both you and the marriage. Get any kind of outside help you can. Often the addicts and the spouse isolate themselves and everything goes up like a powder keg, do not make the same mistakes I did. Wasted two years crashing into walls.

 

Get into an S-anon, COSA or whatever group, it feels horrible at first. Try 6 meetings to see if it is for you.

 

Try some EMDR therapy for the trauma this has caused you. When it feels like you don't care anymore and you don't cry anymore over it, your brain simply just can't take it anymore.

 

Some readings:

 

Out of the Shadows

Facing the Shadow

Your Sexually Addicted Spouse*

Hope and Freedom for Sexual Addicts and their Partners*

 

Laser therapy for sexual addiction (it's very new and I can let you know how it goes, not as crazy or scary as it sounds)

 

I may be nuts, but do not just take my word for it: Go see a specialist even if just to elminate it. You don't want to be wrong about this. Nuke the mosquito before it becomes a life-sucking vampire.

 

PM me if you need to when you get the ability.

 

Good luck

I am stunned to read this. Thank you for posting. This is *so* close to the bone. I have just posted in another thread about finding out about my husband's many, many 'flirtations' (his description) which are highly inappropriate, constant, repeating, and carefully hidden from me *throughout our entire relationship*, escalating at least once into an affair that I know about, and I suspect others. All the time, I have been shamed and belittled for being 'suspicious' and 'insecure'... I need some time to think about this. Thank you again.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh yeah, I saw your post and am glad that you saw this one.

 

My husband emotionally wiped the floor with me for two years.

 

There is an explanation dealing with brain chemistry/addiction for that as well (not saying that you should put up with it).

 

Check out some books on boundaries etc. very helpful. He needs to be responsible for setting up the dynamic of insecurity in your marriage to begin with. Good luck with that!

[updown]

i never knew this was a sign of porn/ sex addiction. the kissing/ disconnected part. it makes soooo much sense though! answers loads of questions too. THANKS!!

 

Your husband cannot fake intimacy. You just have to watch for the little cues. Porn/sex addicts tend to be awful at kissing and seem unconnected during sex with their partners. This is a very broad generalization and not taken as a symptom. Just something to halfway take notice of.

[dreamingoftigers]

i never knew this was a sign of porn/ sex addiction. the kissing/ disconnected part. it makes soooo much sense though! answers loads of questions too. THANKS!!

 

I haven't read it anywhere officially BUT every wife I have talked to says the EXACT SAME THING.

 

Kissing releases oxytocin in the brain that bonds two people together. Porn causes a dopamine rush that directly inhibits oxytocin. They can't feel it if they are addicted to porn.

[FoolMeThrice]

I think your better bet isn't to send him off to therapy yet again to be "cured" but instead, to try to find out what it IS he feels he's missing in your marriage that makes him continually seek out the attention of others.

 

It was his choice to seek out therapy this time. He knows that what he's doing is wrong.

 

There's a part of me that wants to go and see the counselor he's seeing to give them the other side of the story.

 

There are so many explanations that he and I have for all this, but they are just excuses. The excuses aren't enough anymore.

 

He still doesn't know that I'm suspecting him again.

 

NOONE is fixed/cured after 2 counselling appointments.

 

Yeah, I was literally dumbstruck when he told me what this counselor said the last time. Meanwhile, I saw my counselor for about 4-5 weeks.

 

Interestingly, this counselor is supposedly an "expert" in addiction. A "friend" of ours swears by this guy. And of course she does. She's an alcoholic and prescription drug addict and the counselor hasn't done her a damn bit of good in over 5 years.

 

But, this is HIS choice. It's hard enough to get him to open up, especially in that kind of environment. And until I'm ready to confront him about all this, I'm not sure I can get him to a couples counselor.

 

This is just going to take time. And I need to NOT let it go this time.

 

Oh yeah, by the way. He will most likely at some point in this process manipulate/lie to you. Do not take this personally. I know that I just spoke Greek to you but humor me.

 

He will seem so genuine, heartfelt etc etc. and you know he may actually be, he may be swimming with guilt etc. You will know when he is lying almost every time but your gut. It gets that flip-flop. You learn to recognize it after awhile. It becomes quite accurate. You may also have trouble sleeping at night. Your brain/body can pick up on threats that you may not be consciously aware of. He may make excuses A LOT.

 

Your husband cannot fake intimacy. You just have to watch for the little cues. Porn/sex addicts tend to be awful at kissing and seem unconnected during sex with their partners. This is a very broad generalization and not taken as a symptom. Just something to halfway take notice of.

 

This is SOOOOO telling. Things that I wondered before, didn't understand...and are now making sense after reading this post.

 

There is a part of me in denial...he's not a bad kisser because he's a sex addict, he's just inexperienced! LOLOL. I am deluding myself.

 

I have no doubt that he loves me. There are a million ways I can tell you how I know but it would take years to explain.

 

I have to be consistent and adamant that this WILL NOT happen again. I can't think it's all going to be okay. The cycle seems to repeat every 18-24 months. Guess I know when to be on the lookout again.

 

In the meantime, I'm just taking things one day at a time. Who knows when I'll confront him...probably soon. A lot will depend on what happens over the next few days/weeks after I install the keylogger.

 

Thanks again for everything.

[dreamingoftigers]

It was his choice to seek out therapy this time. He knows that what he's doing is wrong.

 

There's a part of me that wants to go and see the counselor he's seeing to give them the other side of the story.

 

There are so many explanations that he and I have for all this, but they are just excuses. The excuses aren't enough anymore.

 

He still doesn't know that I'm suspecting him again.

 

 

 

Yeah, I was literally dumbstruck when he told me what this counselor said the last time. Meanwhile, I saw my counselor for about 4-5 weeks.

 

Interestingly, this counselor is supposedly an "expert" in addiction. A "friend" of ours swears by this guy. And of course she does. She's an alcoholic and prescription drug addict and the counselor hasn't done her a damn bit of good in over 5 years.

 

But, this is HIS choice. It's hard enough to get him to open up, especially in that kind of environment. And until I'm ready to confront him about all this, I'm not sure I can get him to a couples counselor.

 

This is just going to take time. And I need to NOT let it go this time.

 

 

 

This is SOOOOO telling. Things that I wondered before, didn't understand...and are now making sense after reading this post.

 

There is a part of me in denial...he's not a bad kisser because he's a sex addict, he's just inexperienced! LOLOL. I am deluding myself.

 

I have no doubt that he loves me. There are a million ways I can tell you how I know but it would take years to explain.

 

I have to be consistent and adamant that this WILL NOT happen again. I can't think it's all going to be okay. The cycle seems to repeat every 18-24 months. Guess I know when to be on the lookout again.

 

In the meantime, I'm just taking things one day at a time. Who knows when I'll confront him...probably soon. A lot will depend on what happens over the next few days/weeks after I install the keylogger.

 

Thanks again for everything.

 

I know, if fact they do love their spouses, but they are just so ****ing dense! They can't even see it, they just know that it is "bad" and they think that they are "bad people" with "bad secrets" and they avoid trying to get help with it.

 

In my thread about my husband I wrote a huge post (um, I write a lot of huge posts) about busted templates etc. My husband actually looked at at that thread while he was gone and said that it was the most loving thing I had ever written in regards to this and that he didn't feel judged etc. about it. He felt that I understood finally. He also said that it was reasoned and fair without blaming him fully or me taking the blame fully.

 

It is under 'he chose the addiction' response #185 and #189. Bear in mind that I was pretty raw and that there are a lot of personal items in the responses. Hopefully the basic idea is drawn though.

[FoolMeThrice]

I know I'm not here often and I apologize for not participating and trying to help others...everything has been so freakin' weird the past few weeks.

 

I went to see a counselor and told her about everything. She suggested I confront him. Unfortunately, I just couldn't do it.

 

I did install a keylogger and that's how I found out for sure that all this was still going on. While I was at work checking the report, I found an email that he sent day before yesterday to "Sharon". I was so pissed off I left work and went home immediately.

 

At first he tried to tell me that this was an old friend from high school. I told him that it was a strange coincidence that every time this happens it's someone he knew from school or way back when and he always manages to find them on singles websites. He did finally admit that he simply finds anyone on line to chat with - there is no rhyme or reason and that he wasn't looking for anything in particular. I said that was bullsh*t since he was PURPOSELY going to SINGLES websites to find these people.

 

He said he never told any of them the truth - I asked how then was I supposed to know if he was telling me the truth.

 

We yelled, we cried, we talked...he is seeing a counselor at the same practice as before but he asked for someone else. Apparently they gave him a prescription for Wellbutrin and a "mood disorder questionnaire" for me to fill out for him. He said they told him they suspect he has ADD. I told him I talked with my therapist and we think he has Aspergers. I told him that doesn't give him an excuse for his actions but would instead help find a solution to dealing with them.

 

He says he's broken, he doesn't know why he does these things but he knows they are wrong and he wants to fix whatever is broken.

 

There are parts of me that want to believe him and tell him we'll work it all out...but there is a part of me that just isn't sure I can take this again.

 

I told him that the next few weeks would be a "trial" period. He is going to continue to see his individual therapist and we are going to see the marriage counselor together.

 

There are a million and one thoughts going through my head...and no thoughts at all. How can that be? Does anyone else feel like that?