lovelost93 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Ok, so...here's the story: We've been married 17 yrs in December. The day before our anniversary, she has been considered 5 yrs cancer free (breast cancer). Fast forward a month and a half, she told my SIL that she thought she wanted to separate...then told me 2 weeks later. That was the first part of February. I've been living with my brother and it's been kind of miserable. Miserable because him and his family are on a different schedule than me, miserable because my daughter sleeps in the bedroom with me (on the floor, blowup mattress) and I'm not getting any sleep during that time. (she's with me 2 nights a week, every other weekend) Due to sleepness nights, I've had to take time off of work... I've talked to 2 different lawyers and they said that as long as I was living with my brother, that I should pay 1/2 of the bills, as if I was living there. 2 weeks ago, she told me she wanted a divorce. Her excuse is "she's done". I, of course, asked why she isn't trying and her response was "I've tried by staying in the marriage for the last couple of years". (ok, this is news to me) I said, "staying in it, doesn't mean you tried or did anything to change it". Talked to her again this morning...she said she's done, she hasn't given one positive sign to trying to stay in the marriage at all. A few weeks back, she traded in her SUV for a sporty car, quit wearing her ring last week, came over the other day to do our taxes and didn't look at me and couldn't get out of there fast enough. All along she's said that "we can't live under the same roof"...mainly because she doesn't want us arguing around our daughter. Funny this is, I don't want to really even talk to her, much less argue. But, I'm having a hard time living in the arrangements I'm in now. She said if I wanted to move into the house, she'd move out...problem is, she can afford to stay in the house (even if I didn't pay 1/2) but, I can't. Again, the lawyers said as long as I was with my brother, I should pay 1/2 but, as soon as I get a place of my own - there's no way I can pay 1/2 any longer. So, if I move back in the house, and she moves out, she has no other option than to find another place (no family, friends around to stay with)...which leaves me with a mortgage I can't afford. Anyone have any advice?? Thanks!
Chi townD Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Yep, your post is the reason why guys say, " It's cheaper to keep her." Look, you laid it all out on a forum, have to done this with her? Have you guys even considered marriage counseling? Have you even discussed what has been making her so unhappy? If you two have exhausted ALL avenues of trying to fix this, then perphaps it is time to move on. But, it sounds like you two haven't even found the road yet.
Author lovelost93 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Yep, your post is the reason why guys say, " It's cheaper to keep her." Look, you laid it all out on a forum, have to done this with her? Have you guys even considered marriage counseling? Have you even discussed what has been making her so unhappy? If you two have exhausted ALL avenues of trying to fix this, then perphaps it is time to move on. But, it sounds like you two haven't even found the road yet. We've talked about marriage counseling...the counselor wanted to see us individually first, then together. So, I went about 4 times, then she went once, the next day we had our "joint session" and I felt completely ambushed and attacked. The next week she went to her hometown for 13 days, during which I continued IC. When she came back, she went once more by herself then the next day was a joint session (it was originally scheduled to be a IC for myself). At that session the counselor said "part of my job is to resolve things, and I think this marriage is irreconciliable" then asked my wife what she thought. To which she replied "I want a divorce". Great, thanks for the counseling, A-hole. That was exactly 2 weeks ago today...and the last time I went to that counselor. I've tried to get books for her to read - one being "The Divorce Remedy" - which she read about 15 pages and put it down. She said something about how divorce doesn't affect children adversely, etc, etc... So, then the other day I tried something a little different - bought another book called "The Love Dare" which is only 2-3 pages of reading per night, for 40 days, each day you dare yourself to do something. The first day is "be patient", the second "be patient and kind", etc... I asked her this morning if she read it...she said "no, these books are for people who want to save a marriage, I don't". The hardest part I'm having with all of this is that she never really tried... But, again...about moving back in...I'm miserable at my brothers (I love him dearly but, he lives differently than me) and just want some sleep...and it's hard on my daughter while with me too...he's got dogs that she's afraid of, that jump on her, and bark at all hours of the night (like when she's trying to sleep).
Author lovelost93 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Get a roomate! or a second job. Easier said than done. If it comes down to a divorce (and it certainly looks that way) I have ZERO intention of staying in the house...I don't need it, it's too big.
trippi1432 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 First, welcome to LS, but sorry you had to find your way here by the means. Sounds like she may be going thru mid life crisis...surprised the counselor was so quick to say it was irreconcilable. You stated that you felt ambushed and attacked...I think that is about standard for everyone going thru MC when they can't get an answer from the spouse until they are in front of a counselor. It is hard to hear their reasons especially when you are trying to put it all together. Have you read up on MLC or are you just comptemplating on legal recourse instead to save your assets??
Author lovelost93 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 First, welcome to LS, but sorry you had to find your way here by the means. Sounds like she may be going thru mid life crisis...surprised the counselor was so quick to say it was irreconcilable. You stated that you felt ambushed and attacked...I think that is about standard for everyone going thru MC when they can't get an answer from the spouse until they are in front of a counselor. It is hard to hear their reasons especially when you are trying to put it all together. Have you read up on MLC or are you just comptemplating on legal recourse instead to save your assets?? Thanks for the welcome. When I felt ambushed, she didn't really say a whole lot...it was the counselor say "you, you, you". She sat with her arms around her stomach (almost curled in a ball while sitting in a chair). So, she really didn't say much then. I will tell you that during that counseling, I was getting choked up a little with what I was saying, and the counselor said to me "you make her feel guilty when you cry". Ummmm...ok....what am I a great actor? Ugh Some of the "answers" I've gotten from her are: "I'm sick of waiting for you to grow up", "I've had to sacrifice everything, you nothing", "i'm going to do what I want, when I want", "I just want to be alone", "I'm done with marriage" (this is her 2nd marriage). Trust me, I've read lots...but, not a whole lot on MLC. I do know that since she's 5 yrs cancer free (a major milestone), I think she's re-evaluating her life. (obviously) I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want a divorce. I'm not concerned that she would try to not give me 1/2 of the equity in the house, or whatever...but, living where I am, it's not healthy for me, or my daughter. What I mean by "not healthy" is...I can't sleep...and when I do, everyone there gets up earlier than I'm used to, the dogs (although small) are a problem with my daughter, daughter has to sleep on a little (the size of a childs sleeping bag) air mattress that is REALLY loud and has to be uncomfortable. Again, I DO NOT want a divorce but, not sure what I can do at this point. It sounds like she has absolutely no interest in seeing this new counselor (an older, less assuming woman...compared to the older "drill sgt-like" counselor). However, she wants to get the house ready to sell, but, hasn't made any progress, she hasn't changed her facebook status (petty I know but, still) and just last week stopped wearing her ring. UGH.
willowthewisp Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I think your wife sounds like she is having a midlife crisis too, particularly with the breast cancer. Perhaps provide your wife with some literature about how divorce DOES adverserly affect children! However if she is so much in denial, whether it will have any affect or not is debatable. I'm sorry, I wish I could give you hope. Re, your house, are you in the UK? If so if you go down to CAB's you will be able to get practical legal advice about this, there ARE options which they can explain to you.
willowthewisp Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Her second marriage? What happened according to her with the demise of her first? Red flag possibly?
Author lovelost93 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks for the welcome. When I felt ambushed, she didn't really say a whole lot...it was the counselor say "you, you, you". She sat with her arms around her stomach (almost curled in a ball while sitting in a chair). So, she really didn't say much then. I will tell you that during that counseling, I was getting choked up a little with what I was saying, and the counselor said to me "you make her feel guilty when you cry". Ummmm...ok....what am I a great actor? Ugh Some of the "answers" I've gotten from her are: "I'm sick of waiting for you to grow up", "I've had to sacrifice everything, you nothing", "i'm going to do what I want, when I want", "I just want to be alone", "I'm done with marriage" (this is her 2nd marriage). Trust me, I've read lots...but, not a whole lot on MLC. I do know that since she's 5 yrs cancer free (a major milestone), I think she's re-evaluating her life. (obviously) I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want a divorce. I'm not concerned that she would try to not give me 1/2 of the equity in the house, or whatever...but, living where I am, it's not healthy for me, or my daughter. What I mean by "not healthy" is...I can't sleep...and when I do, everyone there gets up earlier than I'm used to, the dogs (although small) are a problem with my daughter, daughter has to sleep on a little (the size of a childs sleeping bag) air mattress that is REALLY loud and has to be uncomfortable. Again, I DO NOT want a divorce but, not sure what I can do at this point. It sounds like she has absolutely no interest in seeing this new counselor (an older, less assuming woman...compared to the older "drill sgt-like" counselor). However, she wants to get the house ready to sell, but, hasn't made any progress, she hasn't changed her facebook status (petty I know but, still) and just last week stopped wearing her ring. UGH. Oh, and I will tell you this...that I've never felt like I deserved her, and was very self-defeating over the years. (basically, not "growing up") I always felt that she was going to see me for my faults and leave me...low self esteem at it's best. I've been working on that through counseling, (which I wanted to do several years ago but, thought she would see me as weak) reading, and exploring my inner self. So, it's the classic example of wife leaves husband, husband discovers what he's been doing wrong and puts everything into making changes, wife doesn't give a crap story.
robf1971 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Oh, and I will tell you this...that I've never felt like I deserved her, and was very self-defeating over the years. (basically, not "growing up") I always felt that she was going to see me for my faults and leave me...low self esteem at it's best. I've been working on that through counseling, (which I wanted to do several years ago but, thought she would see me as weak) reading, and exploring my inner self. So, it's the classic example of wife leaves husband, husband discovers what he's been doing wrong and puts everything into making changes, wife doesn't give a crap story. You should take a look and see how similar everyone else's situations are on here. Firstly do yourself a favour and move back in, get a room mate to afford the bills. Moving out was week and will do nothing to further your cause. I think midlife crisis is just a P*ss poor excuse for adult bad behaviour. This whole trying for 2 years thing is so script, shakespear himself could have written it. I'm Suprised you didn't get the " ILYB" speech. I'm also surpeised that you haven't checked if she is cheating or not. There are a number of red flags in your situation. Do you have access to cell/mobile bills etc. Anyway my wife did the same thing after a major illness, for the same reasons. After the dust settled a lot of her criticisms were true. Your wife probably sees you as a child and cannot be attracted to you at the moment. In this situation, all you can do is let go. Make the changes, be strong, don't whine, cry or complain to her. Don't initiate any contact with her unless it's about the kids. My situation? I made changes for me, not for her, I manned up.. left it to her. 4 months later she suggested marriage counselling, I'd given up begging. After countless "I'm not sexually attracted to you" "I'm not in love with you" statements I started losing attraction to her. Strangely at that point she started complaining about me not kissing her anymore, and trying to get close. Last week, she told the counsellor that she's starting to feel closer to me romantically like a husband and it's been non stop passion since, ohh and it didn't take much for my attraction to come back either. My point being these situations can and do change, it's all in how you handle it. She may or may not come back, you may or may not want it? but you need to start doing the right things.
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Her second marriage? What happened according to her with the demise of her first? Red flag possibly? Yes, her second marriage. The first one she told me that she basically did it to "get out of the house" - she was 19. That ex was and still basically an alcoholic. He had 3 DUI's in the 7 yrs they were married. She told me that she didn't want her son to grow up to be like him, so she divorced...when we met, and married - she told me that she wanted our son (my stepson) to grow up to be like me. I will tell you this...her parents divorced when she was 13 (she's the youngest of 4) and her mom would not let her see her dad - he lived in the next state over. Her Mom is still very bitter about that divorce, hates men in general and has never remarried - that was 33 yrs ago. She still brings it up to this day. My wife told me recently that she was happy that her parents divorced because she couldn't stand the arguing...and that's essentially why she wants a divorce now...so that we dont argue in front of our daughter. I NEVER, EVER want to argue in front our my children...never again, anyway. But, I don't think this is irreconciliable.
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 You should take a look and see how similar everyone else's situations are on here. Firstly do yourself a favour and move back in, get a room mate to afford the bills. Moving out was week and will do nothing to further your cause. I think midlife crisis is just a P*ss poor excuse for adult bad behaviour. This whole trying for 2 years thing is so script, shakespear himself could have written it. I'm Suprised you didn't get the " ILYB" speech. I'm also surpeised that you haven't checked if she is cheating or not. There are a number of red flags in your situation. Do you have access to cell/mobile bills etc. Anyway my wife did the same thing after a major illness, for the same reasons. After the dust settled a lot of her criticisms were true. Your wife probably sees you as a child and cannot be attracted to you at the moment. In this situation, all you can do is let go. Make the changes, be strong, don't whine, cry or complain to her. Don't initiate any contact with her unless it's about the kids. My situation? I made changes for me, not for her, I manned up.. left it to her. 4 months later she suggested marriage counselling, I'd given up begging. After countless "I'm not sexually attracted to you" "I'm not in love with you" statements I started losing attraction to her. Strangely at that point she started complaining about me not kissing her anymore, and trying to get close. Last week, she told the counsellor that she's starting to feel closer to me romantically like a husband and it's been non stop passion since, ohh and it didn't take much for my attraction to come back either. My point being these situations can and do change, it's all in how you handle it. She may or may not come back, you may or may not want it? but you need to start doing the right things. I know that the "trying" speech was so script, just BS. I did, once, get the ILYBNILWY speech. I can't access her cell phone bill, as its company provided. If I'm doing the math correctly, it's been about 3 yrs that she's had that company provided cell phone. Coincidence? She's also got a password on it, and has never told me what it was...I wonder why that is. Also, recently (within the last week) she changed the password on her laptop at home. I am definitely losing attraction to her, no doubt. I think that's me facing the reality of the situation, and one man can only be told so many times that their wife "is done" and "to move on" and that "I'm not in love with you". So, tomorrow I was thinking about going over there to tell her that I am done, tell her I appreciate and am happy about her spending half of my life with me...and this is me moving on. I'm still thinking about the moving back in thing...finding a roommate isn't all that easy... Her plan is to get the house ready to sell, then put it on the market to sell. I notice that she hasn't done ONE thing to do so. In fact, the house is more of a mess than it's been in quite some time - unfolded laundry, dishes in the sink, etc...
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 I know that the "trying" speech was so script, just BS. I did, once, get the ILYBNILWY speech. I can't access her cell phone bill, as its company provided. If I'm doing the math correctly, it's been about 3 yrs that she's had that company provided cell phone. Coincidence? She's also got a password on it, and has never told me what it was...I wonder why that is. Also, recently (within the last week) she changed the password on her laptop at home. I am definitely losing attraction to her, no doubt. I think that's me facing the reality of the situation, and one man can only be told so many times that their wife "is done" and "to move on" and that "I'm not in love with you". So, tomorrow I was thinking about going over there to tell her that I am done, tell her I appreciate and am happy about her spending half of my life with me...and this is me moving on. I'm still thinking about the moving back in thing...finding a roommate isn't all that easy... Her plan is to get the house ready to sell, then put it on the market to sell. I notice that she hasn't done ONE thing to do so. In fact, the house is more of a mess than it's been in quite some time - unfolded laundry, dishes in the sink, etc... Sorry... ILYBINILWY
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 I think your wife sounds like she is having a midlife crisis too, particularly with the breast cancer. Perhaps provide your wife with some literature about how divorce DOES adverserly affect children! However if she is so much in denial, whether it will have any affect or not is debatable. I'm sorry, I wish I could give you hope. Re, your house, are you in the UK? If so if you go down to CAB's you will be able to get practical legal advice about this, there ARE options which they can explain to you. She is in ABSOLUTE DENIAL. A few weeks in, she said she didn't know why she felt the she did...so, talking with my Dad, he said it may be menopause, or premenopause. She went completely nuts when I mentioned that. So, to "throw" literature at her about how divorce affects children...well, I kind of already did that - with "The Divorce Remedy" - the first chapter essentially talks about how it does affect children. That's when she said, it doesn't - look at me. LOL. Hmmmmm...ok. She won't read anything I give her...why, because I gave it to her. I live in the US...so I dont even know what CAB's is.
debtman Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Welcome and sorry you're here like this. All I can recommend is to do the 180 ( http://bit.ly/gbseI7 ). Start working on yourself, be strong, be decisive, get involved in life again, do what you need to do to get happy again, even if it's just an act to start with. Either get back in the house and get a roommate or start taking steps to sell the house and split the equity (this will look like a big step towards D to her, so be careful). It sounds like she's in mid-life crisis and sounds like there may even be OM involved or that she has someone waiting in the wings. It sounds like she's committed to D, but, that can change, but only if you change. Good luck and keep posting...
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 You should take a look and see how similar everyone else's situations are on here. Firstly do yourself a favour and move back in, get a room mate to afford the bills. Moving out was week and will do nothing to further your cause. I think midlife crisis is just a P*ss poor excuse for adult bad behaviour. This whole trying for 2 years thing is so script, shakespear himself could have written it. I'm Suprised you didn't get the " ILYB" speech. I'm also surpeised that you haven't checked if she is cheating or not. There are a number of red flags in your situation. Do you have access to cell/mobile bills etc. Anyway my wife did the same thing after a major illness, for the same reasons. After the dust settled a lot of her criticisms were true. Your wife probably sees you as a child and cannot be attracted to you at the moment. In this situation, all you can do is let go. Make the changes, be strong, don't whine, cry or complain to her. Don't initiate any contact with her unless it's about the kids. My situation? I made changes for me, not for her, I manned up.. left it to her. 4 months later she suggested marriage counselling, I'd given up begging. After countless "I'm not sexually attracted to you" "I'm not in love with you" statements I started losing attraction to her. Strangely at that point she started complaining about me not kissing her anymore, and trying to get close. Last week, she told the counsellor that she's starting to feel closer to me romantically like a husband and it's been non stop passion since, ohh and it didn't take much for my attraction to come back either. My point being these situations can and do change, it's all in how you handle it. She may or may not come back, you may or may not want it? but you need to start doing the right things. I'd say this is probably true. Since, she's told me that she's tired of waiting for me to "grow up". I said "grow up?" to which she replied "well, mature".
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Welcome and sorry you're here like this. All I can recommend is to do the 180 ( http://bit.ly/gbseI7 ). Start working on yourself, be strong, be decisive, get involved in life again, do what you need to do to get happy again, even if it's just an act to start with. Either get back in the house and get a roommate or start taking steps to sell the house and split the equity (this will look like a big step towards D to her, so be careful). It sounds like she's in mid-life crisis and sounds like there may even be OM involved or that she has someone waiting in the wings. It sounds like she's committed to D, but, that can change, but only if you change. Good luck and keep posting... Thanks. I have been working on me...going to counseling, reading books, fixing the insecurity/self-esteem issues. But, I also know I have a long way to go. I do need to take a stand in this. The last 8 weeks have been about whatever she wanted. About selling the house and splitting the equity...I have no doubt that is what would happen. Problem is, there's a good bit of stuff that needs to be done before we put it on the market. You know, I really don't doubt that there is a OM, or one waiting in the wings. That there has been some sort of an ER at least. However, I can't prove it at all. I do not know any of her passwords, can't access her cell bills, etc...she's got to be getting her happiness from somewhere if she's so dead set on not trying to work on a 17 yr marriage, with a 5 yr old child.
debtman Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks. I have been working on me...going to counseling, reading books, fixing the insecurity/self-esteem issues. Good. Keep at it...FOCUS yourself on this. It's a sure way to improve your life and may be the only thing that might change her opinion of the relationship. Problem is, there's a good bit of stuff that needs to be done before we put it on the market. If this is the sort of "stuff" that you could take care of that she wouldn't want to (home improvement type stuff), you may recommend that you move into the house to get the work done, she moves out but keeps paying 1/2 and, once it's ready, you stay there until it sells and then get a smaller place. she's got to be getting her happiness from somewhere if she's so dead set on not trying to work on a 17 yr marriage, with a 5 yr old child. "work" is the key word there. If she found something easier, where she doesn't have to work, doesn't have to make any changes to herself, found someone who doesn't know all the unpleasant things about her yet, it's easier than actually having to work on something. Which is a horrible thing to do to someone you've "loved" for so long and to your child who is the one that will be the most affected by the whole thing...but, it's not your choice anymore. You did everything you could to try to save the relationship. You need to MOVE ON and start dealing with things as if it's over. Good luck and keep posting...
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Also, as a sidenote, I think the reason she changed her laptop password was because she suspects that I've been snooping. I say this because, well...I have been snooping. Last Friday, I logged onto her laptop and looked at her "history"...there were things like "Long Distance and Out of state visitation", "Relocation of child by parent", "Let's Get Married lyrics", "Waiting in Vain lyrics"...The "Let's Get Married" lyrics is pretty troublesome to me...and says a lot...
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Good. Keep at it...FOCUS yourself on this. It's a sure way to improve your life and may be the only thing that might change her opinion of the relationship. I've been doing my best...and it is my passion to work on myself, because either way, I'll be better in the end. I hate it for my daughter though... If this is the sort of "stuff" that you could take care of that she wouldn't want to (home improvement type stuff), you may recommend that you move into the house to get the work done, she moves out but keeps paying 1/2 and, once it's ready, you stay there until it sells and then get a smaller place. Well, it is some home improvement stuff but, also, go through the years of "stuff" that we've accumulated to determine what is trash and what is not. "work" is the key word there. If she found something easier, where she doesn't have to work, doesn't have to make any changes to herself, found someone who doesn't know all the unpleasant things about her yet, it's easier than actually having to work on something. Which is a horrible thing to do to someone you've "loved" for so long and to your child who is the one that will be the most affected by the whole thing...but, it's not your choice anymore. You did everything you could to try to save the relationship. You need to MOVE ON and start dealing with things as if it's over. Trust me, I totally understand this. But, still hard to accept. I can't change her, or her mind...which, is another thing she said "I'ved changed, and don't want you to change". Good luck and keep posting... Thanks, and I'll continue to post. You all are very helpful...going through or have gone through similar situations as mine.
debtman Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 "Long Distance and Out of state visitation", "Relocation of child by parent" I would HIGHLY recommend going to find the best D lawyer you can find to at least find out your rights. If she's thinking of moving away with your daughter, you'd better PROTECT yourself and her. At the very least, find out what the law states about one parent taking the child away...I know in my state, it's illegal. Sounds like she def. has OM and is willing to tell you anything/believe anything to justify her actions to herself. Be careful... Good luck and keep posting...
2sunny Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 i'd suggest accepting that she is done. get busy living instead of trying to force her to read, get counseling, and change. YOU can change YOU... not her. her intention is divorce - accept that - and move forward. find a new kind of happy- for YOU. let go of the past... it obviously hasn't worked.
mark982 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 i think debtmans last post says it all. she's been using the computer to see what her legal options are as to leaving the state with your child. better lawyer up and get a pitbull of a lawyer. even if you don't want to divorce just yet, be nice to take that option away from her.
Author lovelost93 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 I would HIGHLY recommend going to find the best D lawyer you can find to at least find out your rights. If she's thinking of moving away with your daughter, you'd better PROTECT yourself and her. At the very least, find out what the law states about one parent taking the child away...I know in my state, it's illegal. Sounds like she def. has OM and is willing to tell you anything/believe anything to justify her actions to herself. Be careful... Good luck and keep posting... It's illegal in my state as well...I know that to be fact. (well, without my or the courts consent - and I WILL NOT agree to that, EVER)
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