DreamerGirl27 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 @somedude. The problem with the "friendship is not my goal" attitude is that it can limit you. One of the best ways to find a GF and get dates is by having a healthy real life network of friends of both genders. By socializing with some platonic female friends you can end up being introduced to a good woman. One thing women LOVE to do is fix people up. So a female friend can be the one who helps get you to your goal. ^THIS... ftw
somedude81 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) One thing women LOVE to do is fix people up. So a female friend can be the one who helps get you to your goal. Nothing even remotely close to that has ever happened for me. I have had several female friends in my life, and none of them have ever introduced me to their female friends. When I spent time with a female friend, it was always just me and her. So I never experienced any benefit from having a platonic female friend, at least in the relationship department. Edited April 2, 2011 by somedude81
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Women don't like to fix men up with their female friends, unless they think that person is catch. In which case, they would be dating that person themselves.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 That's not true leaning. Women who are happy with their own romantic life will pass a man who's a good catch onto a woman who's a good catch. They also might like the man as a "catch" but not think he would be good for them... in which case they could point him in another direction. _______________________ Here's an interesting article on this in a psychology trade magazine. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200109/can-men-and-women-be-friends The answer to this question according to them is YES... and the article identifies the main challenges and truths about this. One of the points the article makes again and again is that many people don't think men and women can be friends due to old fashioned ideas. It used to be that men and women only interacted in the context of a romantic relationship. Now we work and play together so we can have such friendships.
somedude81 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Then I guess it just boils down to my female friends thinking that I am not a catch. That's why they have all rejected me and have never introduced me to anybody.
SummersEve Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) I think there's also a huge "stage of life" factor to this discussion that hasn't been mentioned yet. M/F friendships are not because "old fashioned" ways have changed. Things were not much different two or three decades ago on m/f working together, going to college together, etc. All that changed in the 60's and early 70's, like 40 years ago. And even before that, sure the youngs had m/f crowds they ran with. Friendship across gender is nothing new. It's just the blurring of understanding of friendship/dating so much that's new, and often just a style that doesn't take much to see it's often just the same old non-wanted suiter hanging around for crumbs. Sex used to be much, much more casual between friends from late 60's/early 70's until the early 80's when AIDS put a stop to it overnight. It is much, much more formal and restricted than it was back then. Nobody bothered to argue about the intricacies of all the connections of it then, they just f-ed everyone and went on with their day, lol. M/F played and worked and lived together then, same as now. I'd say the only thing new is the confusion where people are calling things by the (sometimes) wrong names with great PC-ness. If you like some girl and dog her, she is not "your friend," she is some girl you are dogging. That's what I see anyway, just that the word "friend" is tossed around like it then makes every connection to an opposite sex person some big whoopie deep thing even when it's not that at all. I do not understand the zeal behind it all to tell you the truth, lol. Really the big emphasis on friends is and always was just a young single phase. When people get serious about looking toward marriage then focus switches away from all that to finding that one person, more traditional (which 95% do, usually right after the big "my friends are everything to me" stage). Perhaps after the divorce it all switches back again, I don't know, lol. Married couples shift all that emphasis to eachother and their own family instead of their friends. That is how most of adult life is lived out. Confusing old lover/friend connections last about five minutes, the spouse doesn't like it and it's no longer what matters. All the loyal "he/she will be my friend forever, I value my friends," nah, not so much. Just one old bat's opinion. Edited April 2, 2011 by SummersEve
Mrlonelyone Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) @summers According to psychology today it's not a stage of life thing. But what do they know about human nature? Question for the board: I just sent a birthday card to a female friend I have had since high school. Does that mean I only want to have sex with her to ya'll? Edited April 2, 2011 by Mrlonelyone
runner Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 @somedude. The problem with the "friendship is not my goal" attitude is that it can limit you. One of the best ways to find a GF and get dates is by having a healthy real life network of friends of both genders. By socializing with some platonic female friends you can end up being introduced to a good woman. One thing women LOVE to do is fix people up. So a female friend can be the one who helps get you to your goal. oh geez i've been mentioning this idea on here ad nauseum. unfortunately it's only the choir that really gets it; the rest of them, well, g-d speed.
EasyHeart Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Agreeance to the large social network thing. It's the best (and easiest) way to meet people, for dating an otherwise. But my best source of set-ups has always been the wives/girlfriends of my male friends. For the most part, it seems like as soon as they get to know me, they start setting me up with their single girlfriends. Always, always, ALWAYS be nice to your friends' significant others!!!!
SummersEve Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) @summers According to psychology today it's not a stage of life thing. But what do they know about human nature? Question for the board: I just sent a birthday card to a female friend I have had since high school. Does that mean I only want to have sex with her to ya'll? I certainly did not say that it was not possible to have a female friend that you do not want to have sex with. Also, I'm sorry but one article can be found to back up anything, especially something soft like human behavior/relationships. You are not yet in the stage of life to see how it goes with "friends" vs. "family," so I don't think finding an article means much on that, sorry. It is interesting to read though. It is a combination of fact, opinion, preference and lifestyle plus many more factors. More useful I think to hear what everybody thinks than who wants to be right. Edited April 2, 2011 by SummersEve
Crazy Magnet Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I've had more than one man try to move from friend only relationship to dating me. Every time it ended in disaster and completely killed the friendship the moment they opened their mouth to say something. I could never feel comfortable around them again. It's sad b/c I really liked these guys as FRIENDS and we had lots in common. I wasn't sexually attracted to them in anyway and was never going to be sexually attracted to them. I still get sad when I think about it. I feel like my confident and trust was betrayed and they were only hanging out with me and talking to me to try to win me over rather than being interested in me as a human being.
carhill Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 This connects well with another thread where a female trainer is purportedly flirting with a male LS'er to gain his business. Some have proffered that this is perfectly reasonable, to gain his friendship and interest to sell him something, using the lure of sex and romance to do so. Shall the man feel 'used' by being misled or is that perspective only relevant to women who feel misled by men who appear to be their friends but instead really just want to f*ck them? Also, and this point struck me while formulating the above response, do women think that all men who want to f*ck them aren't "interested in me as a human being."? What I think is that people tend to put other people in boxes and when they wander out of that box it's irritating, annoying and upsetting. Yep, it is. Change is one of the few constants in life. Perhaps another perspective than every man having an 'agenda' when befriending a woman is to consider that he 'changed his mind', just as women do every second of every day. Circumstances and perceptions changed over time and so did his feelings. I think this thread has given me a new question to ask to assist my people-picker, both for friends and lovers. Thanks
phineas Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 This connects well with another thread where a female trainer is purportedly flirting with a male LS'er to gain his business. Some have proffered that this is perfectly reasonable, to gain his friendship and interest to sell him something, using the lure of sex and romance to do so. Shall the man feel 'used' by being misled or is that perspective only relevant to women who feel misled by men who appear to be their friends but instead really just want to f*ck them? Also, and this point struck me while formulating the above response, do women think that all men who want to f*ck them aren't "interested in me as a human being."? I'm sure you have noticed that when the woman wants to f*ck that friend they can care less what he is interested in & just jumps his bones. What I think is that people tend to put other people in boxes and when they wander out of that box it's irritating, annoying and upsetting. Yep, it is. Change is one of the few constants in life. The problem here is the labels on the box's are very detailed & confusing. I've had women put me in what I thought was the "friend" box. So, I treat them like my friends. They get no more or no less attention than my other friends. They hear about the latest women i've gone out with & they get told "i'm busy" when i'm busy. no special treatment. Because they are "friends" Then when it looks like a particular woman has caught my attention I learn i've been put in the "friend who can only pay attention to me" box & they cross the line & kiss me & come on to me & once the threat of the new girl is eliminated they get "busy". They want to take slow, their afraid of loosing me, they don't want to get hurt. Then keep trying to string me along with false promises of future sex & try to make me feel like i'm a jerk for dating other women while they are "busy". They drop hints & tell me certain things I do are a "turn-off". but, their just being honest. I blame myself for letting them do that to me. It don't happen anymore. I got enough friends. I need me a woman. If they don't want to be my woman I delete them. Perhaps another perspective than every man having an 'agenda' when befriending a woman is to consider that he 'changed his mind', just as women do every second of every day. Circumstances and perceptions changed over time and so did his feelings. I think this thread has given me a new question to ask to assist my people-picker, both for friends and lovers. Thanks The one thing I can honestly say is I never once became friends with a woman because I had an agenda. I am perfectly fine with just being friends & dating other women. Unfortunately the women never seem to be ok with this. LOL!
zengirl Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I'm always a little uncomfortable if someone I thought was my friend asks me out. If I thought of them as a friend, it'd be a bummer. If I'm just friendly with the guy (he's in my circle), then it's no big deal. If he was a close friend, I'd be a bit confused, bewildered, embarrased and saddened because it would irrevocably alter the friendship, obviously. That'd suck. But I wouldn't be angry unless the guy literally tried to trick me into going out with him or asked me out when he knew I had a boyfriend (very disrespectful in all cases, but especially to a friend). It's only really ever happened at the beginning of things. And then with one guy who was not really a close friend, who I felt the same about --- but he was more a close friend's friend (and roommate) so I saw him tons but liked him for awhile, but we had BFs/GFs at bad times to start something, and then finally started something that lasted quite awhile. We always say we were friends for a long time first (true enough, I knew him since HS), but we weren't like "Hang out all the time friends." Agreeance to the large social network thing. It's the best (and easiest) way to meet people, for dating an otherwise. But my best source of set-ups has always been the wives/girlfriends of my male friends. For the most part, it seems like as soon as they get to know me, they start setting me up with their single girlfriends. Always, always, ALWAYS be nice to your friends' significant others!!!! I find through activities or my male friends, I do meet men, yes. And I've introduced my male friends to women, including some couples that have worked out/gotten married. Then I guess it just boils down to my female friends thinking that I am not a catch. That's why they have all rejected me and have never introduced me to anybody. Have you asked them to? I never set people up unless I think they'd like to be set up (in a general sense). So females think their male friends are equivalent to their brothers? Yes, in the cases of my closest male friends.
Citizen Erased Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Just upset that our friendship has ended. I wouldn't feel betrayed or whatever that's been discussed on this thread, things change, feelings change. I just wouldn't count them as being in the "people it's appropriate to maintain a friendship with" column. Edited April 2, 2011 by Citizen Erased
somedude81 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Have you asked them to? I never set people up unless I think they'd like to be set up (in a general sense). It never seemed appropriate to do so. I don't know. Also somewhere down the line I was trying to date my friends and it seemed that asking her to set me up with her friends wouldn't have helped my cause.
zengirl Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 It never seemed appropriate to do so. I don't know. Also somewhere down the line I was trying to date my friends and it seemed that asking her to set me up with her friends wouldn't have helped my cause. Well, if you're trying to date them down the line, you aren't really their friend!
somedude81 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I have an issue where I easily fall for a girl if I spend a lot of time with her. Even then, just because I wanted to date them, doesn't mean that I wasn't their friend. There is a reason why it's called a boyfriend.
SummersEve Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Boyenemy? In a strange way that sounds kinda hot.
Crazy Magnet Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I have two cases. Case 1: The guy and I hung out all the time. He didn't have much family so my family sort of adopted him for family events, etc. He waited THREE days after I got out of an LTR to tell me that he was working up the nerve to ask me out when I got a BF and he had liked me the whole time. Uhhh....that would have been nice to know b/c while he had a crush I loved him like a brother. He still has contact with my family but I have backed out of his life. Case 2: Became friends with my exH as well as myself. The three of us went many places together. In the big D he took my side. About two months into the messy divorce, after being my confidant for all my darkest moments, he tells me he loves me. WTF!?! That's why he was supporting me. He wanted me to turn to him for comfort. I pretty much wrote him off completely. After about two years he friended me on facebook but other than a once a year email, we don't speak. Even that one time per year I don't always respond. I felt completely betrayed. Anyone who was just an acquaintance who asked me out would be fine. That wouldn't bother me at all. These were guys whom I shared bonds with like my women friends and yeah, it stung to realize they were just hanging around and waiting for me to be single.
Woggle Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Aren't most successful relationships built on a good friendship? Why do some women seem to have a problem being romantic with somebody they actually get along with?
EasyHeart Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Aren't most successful relationships built on a good friendship? Why do some women seem to have a problem being romantic with somebody they actually get along with?Because relationships are based on friendship AND attraction. If she was attracted to the guy, she would want to date him. By categorizing him as a friend, she's telling him "I am not physically attracted to you" and by agreeing to a friendship instead of a romantic relationship, he is acknowledging that he either accepts that she is not attracted to him or that he is also not attracted to her. Sometimes, of course, both people are secretly attracted to each other, and those are the friendships that eventually turn into romances. But that's a small number. And unfortunately (for us guys), we're usually the ones who fall for the "let's be friends" line, which so often leads to us being the pseudo-boyfriends -- the ones who act like boyfriends to her, while she doesn't act like a girlfriend to us. I suspect that it's because we've been trained by the media to believe that women will fall in love with men if they only get to know us and find out what great guys we are. But that just doesn't happen to any significant extent in the real world. Realistically, I think the only way you can get the girl by being her "friend" is if she's dating someone when you meet her, and you agree to be her "friend" when you both know that "friend" means "I'll date you when/if I break up with my current guy."
Titania22 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I think for guys: If a fairly attractive woman who is your friend comes on to you, we would feel flattered. For girls: They would think that we were just pretending to be a friend just to get in their pants. Hence the dilemma I'm in...I don't want her thinking that; it's just not true in my case. Yep this is exactly how I always feel, and it makes me feel awful, and I go no contact, because just being reminded of them makes me feel bad that I let myself get too familiar and friendly and gave them the wrong impression. It's awful, because there is no such thing as too familiar and friendly with female friends. So basically this tells me that I can't just relax and be myself around guys, because it gives them ideas.
Titania22 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 TSome have proffered that this is perfectly reasonable, to gain his friendship and interest to sell him something, using the lure of sex and romance to do so. Shall the man feel 'used' by being misled or is that perspective only relevant to women who feel misled by men I think the man has every right to feel misled in that situation, just as women do when sales men do the very same thing. That's a crappy sales technique, and once we realise it, we shouldn't waste our time thinking someone who is working is being genuine.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Here's the thing. I could not agree more with Carhill. He is very wise. Men can and do change their minds just like women. Even about women. Men are not 100% about the physical. You see a woman think she's hot but her first impression is not so good... she goes in the friend box, or even the B***h box and generally is not considered dateable. A man can be attracted to a woman yet find her first impression personality repulsive. Then you get to know them and over time their second, third, fourth impression can change what you think about them. Then the unthinkable happens.... you look at them in just that right light and see them like you have never seen them before. Suddenly they are the most beautiful woman in the world and you have gotten to know her well. To some people this freaks them out. They are people like Easy Heart. To some people like me and Woggle and others here... that's just like right. What could be better than having a relationship with someone you get along with and know pretty well already? I'm sure there are plenty of women who see it that way. They just don't complain and odds are they are taken and tend to stay taken once they make a commitment.
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