mr.dream merchant Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I don't quite get why you were talking about your integrity but then you've got this kind of ugly braggy tone, but okay if you say so. I don't really know if you'd know that much about it all at 21 but again okay. Please, don't flatter me with your mature ways.
somedude81 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Because he's ugly? Then that's her fault for having an ugly guy friend. By your logic, you'd also sleep with your male friends, yes? I've been friends with girls I don't find attractive.ROFL! Then you should sleep with all your female friends When I was young and dated, honestly, a guy "friend" was a guy who was persistent in asking me out and whose feelings I didn't want to hurt so I'd say let's be friends. Truthfully, that usually ended up meaning I would call him if I needed a ride or a favor. Sorry. Ah, I remember that stage. I'm glad I'm past that crap. Often times though, I notice they aren't too reliable, prefer not to actually stay in touch, or won't even include you in their social circles. I think they often assume that if they friendzone you, they'll think if you remain friends with them, they're taking a risk at you feeling something more later down the pike. So it's a friendship that keeps you at a GIANT arm's length. A friendship with a woman is not even a friendship at all, well, not compared to the friendships I have with my guy friends. I've noticed this too. Whenever I was friends with a woman they never invited me anywhere and I never even met their friends. It felt more like a secret couple but with no privileges. OP - My guy friends are non distinguishable from my girl friends. They are in the 'friends category'. I would feel just as pissed if my girlfriend told me she had feelings for me 3 years into a friendship - conned and deceived. Wow, you are harsh. I share things with my friends that I would never share with a lover. They are at a huge position of advantage and I place a lot of trust in them.There seems to be an issue with that, but not the point of this thread. One a guy is a friend of mine, I would never think of him as dating potential. Ever. Absolutely no exceptions. This plays into the whole friend zone thing - once you're in the friend zone, there is no way back.This seems to be the norm I have experienced. Though I pity anybody who falls for you. And the whole sneaking your way into ***** thing too - spot on. If my male friends found me attractive + dateable at the start they should have made this intention clear THEN. Their feelings developing over time is akin to someone realising they are a lesbian; these things happen, but my 'preference' is such that I do not 'date' or 'have sex' with friends. Ever.OK, you are aware that it does happen. And you have a right to set your policy. This might invite a lot of criticism, and I know its probably never going to happen, but as a 24 year old single female I want my male friends to completely forget about me as a sexual being. Yup, most likely never to happen. Unless all your male friends are gay, or eunuchs. What happens a lot of the time, when this doesn't happen, I end up with no male friends. We get friendly, they show inappropriate interest and then I cut them off. No more friends.Inappropriate interest? What are you, Mother Theresa? In a lot of those cases though - had those guys asked me out from the get-go, I would have said yes. Its the whole 'being deceived' and trying to 'sneak in' that I don't like. Yup, that is the best way. No sneaking.
Hurtbunny Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Not sure I understand how this is a problem. Figured this would be one in the same. INteresting, a married woman that shares personal stuff with another male friend and NOT her husband...aka - an emotional affair. To me friends are my family and life. They are here for the long haul. Nothing will ever come between us. Meanwhile lovers are transient and fleeting. I would not tell my lover things that I tell my close friends until.... many many years into the relationship. You have to build up a trust. Its a problem because they have been using information while my guard has been down for an ulterior purpose. With a lover that guard would be up. I would not let them see that side of me... for a VERY long time.
Hurtbunny Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 OP - I'm 24 and single. I am talking about people in a similar situation. Marriage is completelt different, at that point I should hope you would share everything with your partner.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I too find it odd that some of these women say they will share things with friends that they never would with lovers. So their husband...a lover... has secrets being kept from him. (Probably stuff like what that one guy who snopped on his GF found huh? All kinds of drity dealings.) :/ Ok. Hurtbunny. Even at 24 your BF should be the best male friend you have. If not then that's not a relationship for the long haul.
Author murah989 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Personally, I think if a lady friend thinks I "deceived" my way into getting into a relationship with her, I'd realize she didn't think very highly of me in the first place.... Feelings develop. If a lady friend came up to me and said " You know, we've been friends for a long time, and I appreciate the time we've spent together. But, I'm noticing that lately I'm wanted to know you even deeper than I do now", I'd be shocked sure....but then I wouldn't be a disillusioned fool and think it was some trick to get me to sleep with her....I'd weigh it all equally and find what was best for both of us, and not just best for myself. Don't we always say that finding your soulmate is like finding YOUR BEST FRIEND????
Mrlonelyone Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Murah989. Yes people do say that stuff about soulmates. @hurtbunny... I wanted to add Even at 24 your BF should be the best male friend you have. If not then that's not a relationship for the long haul. Not because you shoe away your other male friends or any purposeful choice...that should just be the way it shakes out.
Leeway Harris Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 How do you even develop a relationship with someone without also being their friend? I wonder if there's some confusion about definition of terms here. I feel like Hurtbunny is speaking a different language.
somedude81 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 How do you even develop a relationship with someone without also being their friend? I wonder if there's some confusion about definition of terms here. I feel like Hurtbunny is speaking a different language. It's called Womanese.
Leeway Harris Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 OP - I'm 24 and single. I am talking about people in a similar situation. Marriage is completelt different, at that point I should hope you would share everything with your partner. And another thing, why do you have so many damn secrets in general? Who are you, Batman?
Forman Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 How do you even develop a relationship with someone without also being their friend? That's how I feel. Right now I'm into a female friend. She's not a great friend, like I don't hang out with her all the time or anything - we've just known each other a while and have done some things together. I would have never developed an attraction to her if we didn't have that time of knowing each other. You can go to a bar and pick up some girl and start dating her soon after that, but do you really know her? Did you go for her because of who she is as a person? No. You talked with her because she was hot and you were hoping to sleep with her that night or soon after that. With a female friend that you're not romantically interested in to begin with but develop it as time passes - you know that you truly feel a connection with her. Of course, there's a difference between developing those feelings and having those feelings from the start and hiding it in friendship, only to try to ease your way into her pants later on. I see guys doing that and it's pathetic.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Hey forman... how are Hyde and Kelso doing. Seriously though. I guess some people have never experienced a friendship between themselves and a member of the opposite gender that grew over time into something more. @Leeway I seriously LOL'd at that. Bruce Wayne told his GF's he was Batman. I'm just saying what dark secrets could these people have that they could not share with their sexual partner that the could only share with a friend. It is possible that women who can have male friends who they arent attracted to.... while having male lovers who they can't really be friends with... perhaps... don't want or cant get the full package from one man? Is it possible that some of you get your emotional needs feed by a male friend you won't or can't bring yourself to have sex with? Is it possible that you don't want to get to attached to the people that you do have sex with for some reason? I'm just trying to understand this as a person who is capable of attraction to both sex's, all genders, and has only had lovers who were good real friends first.
Leeway Harris Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 It is possible that women who can have male friends who they arent attracted to.... while having male lovers who they can't really be friends with... perhaps... don't want or cant get the full package from one man? Interesting point Mrlonelyone. And, regarding Batman, I actually didn't know Bruce Wayne revealed his Batmanhood to his love interests. Never was a big comic book guy. Maybe I should have said Spider Man?
EasyHeart Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 How do you even develop a relationship with someone without also being their friend? Like I said before: There is a huge difference between being "friends first" and being "just friends". "Friends first" means that you are dating and getting to know each other before sleeping together and starting a relationship. It is how normal, healthy people date. But it is clearly identified as "dating" by both people. "Just friends" means that neither of you would ever consider sleeping with the other person under any circumstances. It is a brother-sister type of relationship, including all the taboos associated with that kind of relationship. Replace "Female friend" with "Sister" in your line of thinking, and I think it will make more sense why women get grossed out when a male friend confesses he has "feelings" for her. . .
somedude81 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 So females think their male friends are equivalent to their brothers?
Ometeotl Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Let me cut the crap. Being freinds with a woman and then trying to get with her, sets off the womans "alarm". The alarm alerts a woman when she needs to put up her gate, lock up the castle, and burry herself in her walls. Its really nothing personal, and you probably will lose the friendship, but there is a sliver of possibility you will get together in the future. Thats the risk anybody runs with being friends with anybody they could be attracted to for more.... thats just the way it is! Very messy business ><, woman tend to think black and white with friends and lovers, black does not turn into white and white does not turn into black very often.... thats why I like to keep a nice shade of grey with every female relationship I have. Flirting and grabbing butt, talking and sharing, spanking and being dorky... never put yourself in a box!
GivenUp0083 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I attempted to be friends with women, even at their request...however, it turns out, they never really wanted you to actually "stay in touch" with them. I had a situation where a woman wanted to be my friend, would call me to chat and stuff, and we'd even hang out....I was actually cool with being friendzoned...because at least she made it clear to me earlier. Curiously, she would flirt with me sometimes, or bat her eye lashes to attempt to get her away. When we would kinda hang out at group parties....she took me aside and said, "Um, listen, perhaps you can mingle around some more, stay away from being around me, because other men will think we're a couple, okay?" Apparently, I was "Crampin" her style, and we appeared as if we were a couple. I was like "screw this" and stopped calling her. Apparently, us being 2 different genders made the difference between friendship with women, vs friendship with guys. Often times though, I notice they aren't too reliable, prefer not to actually stay in touch, or won't even include you in their social circles. I think they often assume that if they friendzone you, they'll think if you remain friends with them, they're taking a risk at you feeling something more later down the pike. So it's a friendship that keeps you at a GIANT arm's length. A friendship with a woman is not even a friendship at all, well, not compared to the friendships I have with my guy friends. Female-Male friendships almost always result in the female getting more benefit out of the deal. This is why you have to drop your feelings for them if you decide to enter in the friendship. You probably allowed the friendship with this woman because you still had a smidge of hope that you'd end up with her when that's what they want you to think. I'll be friends with girls that are only in mutual benefit for both parties. I'll play along with her insecurity of going to a party with her and I'll leave her alone so she can meet guys, but I'll also be using that opportunity to meet women. If she sees you talking to other girls and she strikes out that night for meeting dudes, then she may worry that she's losing her grasp on you. Girls are suckers for jealousy. I've slept with girls soley because I told them I was interested in another girl. She was using you, you should have used her back. Given her space, but at the end of the night if she was empty handed you could've been there to score as long as you gave her the impression that you wouldn't get attached.
fishtaco Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Maybe it's just me, I sometimes do not like things that are ambiguous. I don't know why so I guess that's just me. I realize it might sound a touch paranoid, what can I say, lol. Bingo. Ambiguity is not a nice place to be, unless you're playing games. And I'm not against playing games. I do it myself from time to time. But, it does take a lot of work, and my preference is no games. Not because I'm an awesome guy, but because I'm lazy, I like the path of least resistance. Games take work. I'll do it only if I have to. Ambiguity is the life force of games. Without it, you can't play; you don't have room to make your maneuvers. Yes, sometimes the ambiguity is innocent; it's never utilized for games. But then why go there? Why make things complicated for yourself? Why risk the chance that you'll get played, unless you plan on playing the other person? That's why I say romance from friendship should ONLY happen by accident. For every success story, there are many of messy situations that comes from it. Because it is by default ambiguous and complicated. Why not take a less messy and higher win percentage path? Currently out of all the female friends I have, I would not date any of them. I would sleep with some of them yes, as in FWB (when I'm available), but they have to initiate and give me a clear signal, otherwise I won't go there. My acquaintances however, I have a few that I plan on hitting up on, since my relationship is falling apart and about to be downgraded to casual pretty soon. They're a bit tricky because although they're not my friends, they are in my social circle. Word gets around. After those few, then I already have plans to go some place I normally don't go to meet women. Then they'll be strangers AND outside of my social circle. The best place to do my thing. Probably totally unrelated to half the things people are saying here, but this just popped in my head. When my ex and I broke up, she told me months later that she slept with two of her best friends. Although she regrets it now, part of the reason she brought it up was because of how easy it was to do. From what she told me, all she had to do was say "Hey, do you want to **** me?". One of them jumped in on it, the other took a little time (probably the more honorable one). What sickened me was how she just used them for sex, but became annoyed when those two guys wanted a relationship with her. I guess in her case, she knew the "roles" her friends played, and took advantage of it. Please keep in mind, that my question was not geared towards " Can women and men be friends after being dumped" (which is where I see it going). Instead, it's "Should I risk a long friendship over a meaningful attraction?". Ha ha, I didn't realize this was such a hot button topic Yeah, and after hearing this story, what do we think of your ex? If anything this shows that any sort of intimacy or romance that comes from friendship could go down in a flaming wreck. And the wreck is bigger because friendship is involved. Imagine those two guys were random bar guys. It would just be some NSA sex for single consensual people. Big deal. I don't understand why men are telling women to change how they think. You have it right here... women have spoken up, don't hit up on your friends. So don't do it. Men don't think like this. So if a woman is interested in her friend, initiate. The men will bite, even if the woman is just using him for something, like murah989's story. That's the price to pay for the willingness to playing in this zone. Maybe men should start acting like women in this matter. Get offended when your female friends hit on you. Pattern recognition people. Here's a pattern right in front of you, spelled out. Remember it, and adapt to it. Who cares why it's this way?
Forman Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 What do people consider friends? I have plenty of female friends who I know through various activities and see occasionally at parties and such, but I'm not regularly texting or chatting with them. It's usually these girls that I'll end up hooking up with or dating. I also have some close female friends who both sides can readily say that we are "just friends." In most cases, they have boyfriends. We'll advise each other on our situations with other guys and girls. I never have and don't want to sleep with these girls. I consider both these groups friends, but they're very different.
Leeway Harris Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 What do people consider friends? That's what I was thinking. When fishtaco said "Don't try to date your friends," I was gonna say "But I don't like women who aren't my friends! If I liked them, they'd be my friends!" If you don't date your friends, who's left? Strangers? Enemies? What do we mean by "friends" here?
Mrlonelyone Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 When I say friend I mean pretty much anyone who's not a stranger or an enemy. Whats more is to me... my Best friend should be whoever I am dating. If not that feels wrong to me. Sharing sex with someone who's also a great friend who I like and respect as well as have grown to really love... that's the best. Not that lust...that some people call love but the real thing. I really feel for people who don't know what I'm talking about or who have never experienced it. Hopefully I can build something like that with the woman I just met for coffee.
EasyHeart Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 So females think their male friends are equivalent to their brothers?Yes. And men think of their female friends as sisters. That's the only model for a successful male-female friendship. If you think of a woman as "like a sister", then you're friends. If you think of her as "someone who'll really like me if only she got to know me", then you're in trouble. What do people consider friends? I have plenty of female friends who I know through various activities and see occasionally at parties and such, but I'm not regularly texting or chatting with them. It's usually these girls that I'll end up hooking up with or dating.That's not a friend, that's an acquaintance. A friend is someone you see on a regular basis, you know everything there is to know about their family & job, you call them if your car breaks down, you invite them over to watch movies or have a drink, you discuss work, money, family issues with them, and sometimes you just call them because you feel like talking to someone. That girl you see every Thursday night at volleyball and talk to sometimes in the bar is not a "friend". She's just someone you happen to have met.
somedude81 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Yes. And men think of their female friends as sisters. That's the only model for a successful male-female friendship. If you think of a woman as "like a sister", then you're friends. If you think of her as "someone who'll really like me if only she got to know me", then you're in trouble. That's probably why every friendship I had with a female ended in about a year. I simply could not see them in an asexual way. So I wonder how girls managed to do it to me so quickly. Either way, that was time long past. I now actively try to avoid becoming friends with women. I haven't had a woman friend in four months and I'm fine with that. Friendship isn't my goal.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 @somedude. The problem with the "friendship is not my goal" attitude is that it can limit you. One of the best ways to find a GF and get dates is by having a healthy real life network of friends of both genders. By socializing with some platonic female friends you can end up being introduced to a good woman. One thing women LOVE to do is fix people up. So a female friend can be the one who helps get you to your goal.
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