somedude81 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Interesting fishtaco. I'll need to put some thought into to how use it properly. I know his feelings toward me but we had been friends for a long time before I suspected anything. Why would you feel deceived or betrayed if a guy friend fell for you and told you about it? Are girls not aware that feelings can develop over time?
Teknoe Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Just ask her out already and go from there. I'd be uncomfortable and very annoyed if someone I had been friends with for awhile then asked me out/confessed feelings for me. I would end the "friendship" as it would be clear to me I had been deceived by the guy as to his motives. I had tried doing the same thing with a guy I had feelings for, but he eventually saw right through it. He did feel betrayed, to an extent, and didn't feel he could trust anything I told him. We've been reduced to acquaintances since then. It happens both ways. You can't sneak your way in. OK that brings me to another point: If you start out as acquaintances with a girl, but later develop deeper feelings for her, does that make the guy ungenuine or deceptive? I mean, there is tact and timing involved too, right. Surely THAT HAS TO ACCOUNT FOR SOMETHING. How many guys end up falling in love with their best lady friend, and only was it at the right time that he made his move did it work? If you confess when you first know you like her, it might scare her off. But as time marches on and the friendship deepens, she warms up. Is that truly deceptive? Then many of my friends are guilty, because that is how their marriage testimony goes. Feelings are feelings. Just because we guys suddenly develop some for our lady friend, doesn't mean we're dishonest or being deceptive if we don't (immediately) disclose with them how we feel deep down, yes?
fishtaco Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Is that truly deceptive? Then many of my friends are guilty, because that is how their marriage testimony goes. Feelings are feelings. Just because we guys suddenly develop some for our lady friend, doesn't mean we're dishonest or being deceptive if we don't (immediately) disclose with them how we feel deep down, yes? Ok, here's how it works when dealing with women, from a man's perspective. You do the exact same thing. Whatever it is. If she's on the same page, it's romantic. If she's not, it's creepy. The same damn thing (within reason, cutting off your ear and send it to her is outside of the scope of what I'm talking about). The only difference between romantic and creepy is if the woman appreciates it or not. So your examples of your friends' romance working out. They just happened to work out. Hence in my post I said, it's a double or nothing bet. If you win, you win anyway, friend or no friend. It's all good. But if you lose, you lose double. It's guilty only if it doesn't work out.
Dust Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I would be pissed. This is an issue I feel strongly about- I almost feel like its deceptive, that the guy had 'lain in wait' all of the time and that all of his behaviour towards me had been of an ulterior motive. I'm actually in a similar situation right now - in the fact that I have a close guy friend who I KNOW has feelings for me - and I hate it. I'm praying he never brings it up with me - I don't feel the same. I feel like everything he has done towards me has been fake, I know that guys want to bang girls etc but I just wish he didn't find me attractive. And yeah, you guys might think its wrong of me to let him help me out when I know his feelings toward me but we had been friends for a long time before I suspected anything. Sometimes he calls me a pet name which makes me cringe but I'm too embarrassed to tell him to stop since he has been doing it for over a year now. Anyway, I digress. Your situation could be completely different know, and I know a some cases where friends have turned to lovers - not loads, but a few. I haven't had the guys to tell this guy that we can only ever be friends so instead I've been passively aggressively 'mentioning' others guys I'm involved with + the fact I love being single and don't want to be with anyone. The problem is I do care about him a lot and I suspect he is interpreting that as something more than it is. Murah... I actually just laughed so hard at the evil plan post. Extremely funny. I guess this situation does apply to yours since I think my guy friend has started to develop feelings over the past year. I daren't confront him about it. I don't really think you are doing anything wrong. I wouldn't want to date a girl who had "friends" as you describe. As a guy I wouldn't want to put myself in a situation where I was to afraid to make an outright move which would either progress things or end the friendship. The only way I would hit on a friend is if the feelings formed after the friendship. Making friends with the purpose of some how putting in enough face time to transform something is pointless. If you are already in such a situation as a guy I recommend you just make a move already and move on if it doesn't work out. Or if she wants to hang out just keep trying till one of you gets bored. I've never really had this. Most of the men I've known have been respectful about that sort of thing. However, I did have a friend/former co-worker, and although I enjoyed his time, it was obvious as our friendship went on that he was getting feelings for me. He would text me all of the time prying to know about my relationship, eager to know if I was single yet, all of that stuff. Then he wanted to invite me out to museums and restaurants all of the time. He joked about buying me a $10k engagement ring. Uh...it was a little creepy to be honest, and that ruined our friendship. There is a tasteful way to approach a girl that you like. Ask her out for coffee. And a simple, "I have feelings for you" should be enough to get the point across. I’d consider this cheating. I ALWAYS use the word date. This way women can't weasel out of it and eat the food I paid for, drink the drinks I paid for, and pretend it was just a friendly outing. I make it extra formal when I ask women out. He was never your friend and I would consider it cheating if I was your bf. Interesting fishtaco. I'll need to put some thought into to how use it properly. Of course you want it to be clear it’s a date. I just don’t believe in spelling it out as in “This is a date, I want you.” If you meet a girl in your class for example she might want to study with you, or you could invite her to study. That is a great time to make a move where you wouldn’t have to worry about buying dinner. You control the date. Invite her to something cheap like coffee or a lunch special. You can test the waters with holding her hands and what ever other flirty behavior. Why would you feel deceived or betrayed if a guy friend fell for you and told you about it? Are girls not aware that feelings can develop over time? You shouldn’t concern yourself with such questions. “I’m really hurt how dare you ask me out?” “Cause you’re hott!”
somedude81 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Of course you want it to be clear it’s a date. I just don’t believe in spelling it out as in “This is a date, I want you.” If you meet a girl in your class for example she might want to study with you, or you could invite her to study. That is a great time to make a move where you wouldn’t have to worry about buying dinner. You control the date. Invite her to something cheap like coffee or a lunch special. You can test the waters with holding her hands and what ever other flirty behavior. But fishtaco is advocating spelling it out. If I want a girl to come with for coffee or lunch do I say it's a date or not??
Dust Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 But fishtaco is advocating spelling it out. If I want a girl to come with for coffee or lunch do I say it's a date or not?? Girls don’t like desperate guys. They detest the type of guy worried about spending money only to be rejected. I try to paint the picture that I could care less if they reject me because that’s the honest truth. I’m inviting them out because I want to enjoy their company. Let the fact that I will be doing romantic things make it clear. Eventually it will be time to clear things up and label “yes we are dating, and I’d like to keep it exclusive.” His entire reasoning behind spelling it out is exactly what women find unattractive. A woman owes you nothing, even if she knows it’s a date and you pay for her food doesn’t mean anything will happen. Plenty of free, to low cost first dates if you are worried about spending money on something that doesn’t work out.
fishtaco Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 He was never your friend and I would consider it cheating if I was your bf. What? I don't understand this at all. I was talking about how I spell it out when I ask women out for a date, as in we're both single and available. How is that cheating and how did I suddenly switch sexual orientation and have a boyfriend? But fishtaco is advocating spelling it out. If I want a girl to come with for coffee or lunch do I say it's a date or not?? My dating philosophy is I don't chase. I'm only interested in women that are interested in me. If she's not, I'm not going to "pay for her time" just to see if I can get squeeze myself in there. I'd rather say okay thanks, no hard feelings, see you around as acquaintances. Then I hit up on her friend. I can afford to do this because I don't care. I don't care because I have a large social life and I meet new people all the time. I don't care if each individual attempt work out or not. Women that like me will find this unromantic, women that don't like me will find this uncreepy, which is a good thing. Hey, I leave them alone after I get a no, no drama, no tantrums. I make it easy for them to tell me no. So you can say my dating philosophy is centered around quantity over focusing on one woman. So people that have different dating philosophy may not find my approaches suitable to their needs.
Dust Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 What? I don't understand this at all. I was talking about how I spell it out when I ask women out for a date, as in we're both single and available. How is that cheating and how did I suddenly switch sexual orientation and have a boyfriend? Haha my bad. that was meant for the girl hanging out with mister "when are you going to be single." So, pardon me for the confusion.
fishtaco Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 His entire reasoning behind spelling it out is exactly what women find unattractive. A woman owes you nothing, even if she knows it’s a date and you pay for her food doesn’t mean anything will happen. Plenty of free, to low cost first dates if you are worried about spending money on something that doesn’t work out. It's unattractive because she can't use me for free food? She doesn't owe me anything, but at the same time I don't owe her anything either. Why am I obligated to pay for her when all she wanted was a free meal? If she's interested, let's go. If she's not, why would I want to play this ambiguous game. If I do ambiguity, it'll be on MY terms. And she can always walk. Just like if a woman tries to pull me into her ambiguity game, I walk.
somedude81 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Ugh, you guys are making this too complicated. Lets say there is a cute girl in one of my classes that I want to get to know better. Do I say, "Lets go on a coffee date." or "Lets go get some coffee." Same thing for getting lunch. Should the word date be used or not. Also would I insist on paying for her?
Dust Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 It's unattractive because she can't use me for free food? She doesn't owe me anything, but at the same time I don't owe her anything either. Why am I obligated to pay for her when all she wanted was a free meal? If she's interested, let's go. If she's not, why would I want to play this ambiguous game. If I do ambiguity, it'll be on MY terms. And she can always walk. Just like if a woman tries to pull me into her ambiguity game, I walk. You don’t have to invite a girl out for food if you are unsure. I love inviting girls to parties I’m going to. Like grilling and chilling type thing with friends. Show her a good time. Ugh, you guys are making this too complicated. Lets say there is a cute girl in one of my classes that I want to get to know better. Do I say, "Lets go on a coffee date." or "Lets go get some coffee." Same thing for getting lunch. Should the word date be used or not. Also would I insist on paying for her? I would go with “let’s get a drink” with out using the word “date.” I would do this in a flirty way. I would also be flirty, touchy while out together. I would offer to pay in a flirty way, but you don’t have to insist. Its all about showing her a good time and enjoying her company. It’s not about getting stressed out with “this is a date, this relationship must progress.”
SummersEve Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 My ex told me that after we broke up, all of her guy friends jumped on her, and it made her super upset. I can understand why: you think that people care about you as a friend, but they just want to be romantic with you instead. Possible breach of trust??? Um no, it is not upsetting to have a bunch of guys let you know how attractive they find you by asking you out, lol. What you were told smacks of a veiled way of actually bragging that a lot of guys wanted her.
waynebrady Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Women like to reject men, they enjoy it. So really I don't think women get upset... because it makes them feel good by rejecting the guy. It's an ego boost. Why wouldn't they like it?
Mrlonelyone Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 First of all I don't see anything wrong or deceptive about being friends first. My mother and father were friends first before dating. So were all of my elders before they married who they married and have been married to...for my whole life. So yes for some people being friends first works. Perhaps it's an old fashioned way of looking at things. Second every single relationship I have had started out with us being friends first. I mean real friends...not a situation where I asked the girl out and she said "lets just be friends". We had a common interest or activity and through time came to like eachother. One of the longest relationships I had started out of a common interest in science with a woman I met in science class (a number of scientist great and not so great met their SO's in such a manner). Third in terms of what's natural... Up until the mid 20th century most of us lived in small towns, villages, and way in the past groups of hunter gatherer's. If you wanted to mate with or marry someone you did not find a total stranger... you found someone you probably grew up with or near and already knew very well. There simply weren't enough people. This idea that people ought to just meet and fall madly "in love" with a random stranger while the people they have known for months or years are off limits defies human nature. That's my $0.02 To the original question: Just ask the girl out to do an activity. If she says yes go do it. Flirt with her be playful. Act as if it were a date but don't call it a date. She'll either like it or she will not. If you are both mature enough to go back to being friends if she does not like it fine. If your not able to handle that the ces't le vie. Good luck.
Mrlonelyone Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Women like to reject men, they enjoy it. So really I don't think women get upset... because it makes them feel good by rejecting the guy. It's an ego boost. Why wouldn't they like it? Not all women are like that Wayne. However there are SOME women like that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If a woman rejects you and gets an ego boost out of it then you were better off being rejected by such a person. They have issues. (Yes yes and some men but last time we asked Wayne is straight right? So why advise him on how horrible some men are?) @Dust I could not agree more with what you said regarding the whole "creepy" thing. Some women are creeped out or annoyed or irritated by any unwanted interest. A man could drive himself insane trying to figure out what will creep someone out in this day and age. ________ Heck we live in an era where it's considered, by some, rude to call someone on the phone. It's enough to make me want to become a hermit. It's like if you try to have a simple conversation people act like you want to move in with them.
fishtaco Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Ugh, you guys are making this too complicated. Lets say there is a cute girl in one of my classes that I want to get to know better. Do I say, "Lets go on a coffee date." or "Lets go get some coffee." Same thing for getting lunch. Should the word date be used or not. Also would I insist on paying for her? We're going way off topic. This thread was about asking friends out. Anyway, this is my last post here regarding somedude81's question. You are classmates with her? Perfect. You have a way to interact with her on a regular basis. Use this time to warm her up and do the flirting. Ideally you DON'T want to have to purchase the time with her to do your flirting. Do it during your normal interaction. Once she's warmed up, then you go, "hey, we should go on a date.", with a big grin on your face, post warming her up of course. Or if she's resisting the flirting, then you know she's not interested, then don't bother. But, if you don't have a chance to flirt and warm her up, then you just have to ask her out for coffee. I would make it a non-date. It's NOT a date. So ask her out casually. Then use the coffee "hang out" to make your move. Whether to pay for her or not, I would say you might as well just bite the bullet and do it. This is your bet. One coffee. Not too bad. Then make sure you ask her out during this coffee "hang out". Or of course, bail out if things aren't looking good. First method is preferred. Second method you have no choice if the only interaction you'll get is the two minutes it takes to ask her to hang out some place. Mrlonelyone - From a guy's perspective, I agree with you 100%. But my experience tells me otherwise. This is how women are. This is how they think. Whether I think it makes sense or not makes no difference, I'm not going to argue with them or demand they change their perspective, I don't have the right to do so. I just play my part of the game.
Dust Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 First of all I don't see anything wrong or deceptive about being friends first. My mother and father were friends first before dating. So were all of my elders before they married who they married and have been married to...for my whole life. So yes for some people being friends first works. Perhaps it's an old fashioned way of looking at things. Second every single relationship I have had started out with us being friends first. I mean real friends...not a situation where I asked the girl out and she said "lets just be friends". We had a common interest or activity and through time came to like eachother. One of the longest relationships I had started out of a common interest in science with a woman I met in science class (a number of scientist great and not so great met their SO's in such a manner). Third in terms of what's natural... Up until the mid 20th century most of us lived in small towns, villages, and way in the past groups of hunter gatherer's. If you wanted to mate with or marry someone you did not find a total stranger... you found someone you probably grew up with or near and already knew very well. There simply weren't enough people. This idea that people ought to just meet and fall madly "in love" with a random stranger while the people they have known for months or years are off limits defies human nature. That's my $0.02 To the original question: Just ask the girl out to do an activity. If she says yes go do it. Flirt with her be playful. Act as if it were a date but don't call it a date. She'll either like it or she will not. If you are both mature enough to go back to being friends if she does not like it fine. If your not able to handle that the ces't le vie. Good luck. Yes, it’s quite a new phenomenon to see women acting this way about male friends. If you are friends with a single guy please don’t be surprised if he at a minimum would be interest should the opportunity arise. I really don’t even try to understand the female view on this. The only thing I try to advise against is men who have the notion they can some how friend there way into a relationship. You need to make a move the sooner the better. The situation described by the OP sounds like he may have always had some kind of feelings but do to circumstances never acted. Now 3 years later he is single and she is single and he feels now is the time. Obviously making a move could ruin the friendship. If the friendship is that important I suggest he just remain friends. But really if he likes he should be willing to risk it. Sorry, there is no risk free way past the fear of rejection.
Mrlonelyone Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I see what you are saying. No one should try to "friend" their way into a realtionship. If you see someone and are instantly attracted and think of them in a relationship sort of way... the honest thing to do is that. However what some of these people don't realize is that men aren't always on the prowl for sex. For example the last women I dealt with here at length. When I met her I wasn't even thinking sexy thought right off the bat. She was just someone I could talk to and who wanted to dance with me. We warmed up to each other over time. She didn't seem like my cup of tea at first...not in the least. I actually, gasp, became more attracted to someone once I got to know their personality....thorough being friends. Yes ladies men do get attracted (or repelled) by your personalities regardless of your bodies. If anyone ever wondered how a "unattractive" person gets and attractive spouse that's how... they probably were genuine friends first. The only women that I think don't think this is possible are the ones that are considered very physically attractive. I feel sorry for them having never known what a relationship built not upon the shifting sands of lust but the solid bedrock of a real friendship can feel like. All because most men look at a very attractive woman and have one thing on their mind. Give me a 7 or 8 who's capable of being a 9 or 10 and a friend any day over a 9 10 who's only a 4 or 5 as a friend. A 7 who's a 10 as a friend will be an 11 as a SO or spouse. IMHO
xpaperxcutx Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 You assume that you've been... DECEIVED? He had nefarious ulterior MOTIVES? He's been tenting his fingers every night for years cackling "Eeeeexcellent! Eeeeverything's going according to my eeeeevil plan!!!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAH!!!!"? This is not far from the truth since you can evidence such thoughts and behaviour from certain threads on here. People are innately selfish, especially when it comes to personal motives. If a third wheel want to weasel his way into a person's relationship, you think he wouldn't try?
xpaperxcutx Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Ugh, you guys are making this too complicated. Lets say there is a cute girl in one of my classes that I want to get to know better. Do I say, "Lets go on a coffee date." or "Lets go get some coffee." Same thing for getting lunch. Should the word date be used or not. Also would I insist on paying for her? Well I would ask if you are friends with her or not. Women can date acquaintances, but they're usually more hesitant when it comes to dating friends.
Mrlonelyone Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 This is not far from the truth since you can evidence such thoughts and behaviour from certain threads on here. People are innately selfish, especially when it comes to personal motives. If a third wheel want to weasel his way into a person's relationship, you think he wouldn't try? I think we are confusing a few things. What you are talking about yes that's dishonest. Suppose however you meet a coworker and both of you are happily in relationships. So you get to know each other in a strictly platonic way. You become real friends... then somewhere down the line you are both single? How is it dishonest for that man to ask you out? There is a difference and distinction between real genuine friends becoming lovers... and someone who's trying to weasel in. I could agree with that.
somedude81 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks for the posts dust and fishtaco. Well I would ask if you are friends with her or not. Women can date acquaintances, but they're usually more hesitant when it comes to dating friends. She would be an acquaintance. Somebody I've occasionally talked to in class or a club meeting. I try not to let an actual friendship develop if I'm interested in a woman. Though there were situations where I had no interest in the woman at first. And after time spent with her, feelings began to develop.
interfuse Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I don't get upset unless the guy keeps pressuring me to date him and throws me on a guilt trip if I don't.
Mrlonelyone Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I don't get upset unless the guy keeps pressuring me to date him and throws me on a guilt trip if I don't. Define pressuring you. I mean if you spent a certain amount of time together before he asked you out and said no... and he still wants to spend that time on you... would/could you feel pressured?
Leeway Harris Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I still don't understand how it's evil or deceptive to like a friend in "that way". If a woman friend had a crush on me, wanted to date me, and I didn't feel the same way... No, I just can't understand how a person could get mad at someone for that. It makes no sense! I don't care what the reason is. And if it makes things awkward when you don't feel the same way, that's sad, but how is it the person's fault? So, the second you meet a guy, he has to make his intentions absolutely clear? "Hi, I'm Leeway. I'm attracted to you in a man/woman sense." Or "Hi, I'm Leeway, I want to be your friend, and nothing more. And that will never, ever change because that would be... eeeeevil!" I am absolutely bewildered by this.
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