musemaj11 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 This is the truth ladies, When a man is afraid of making a commitment to you, it is because he fears that you may not be the best he can get. It is understandable if you think such men are deceivers, but actually these guys are the 'good guys. They are the guys who value marriage so much that they are very afraid of making the wrong decision. You should be more wary of guys who easily make commitments.
waynebrady Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 No, men are not afraid of commitment. Men initiate all relationships. Who brings up "the talk"? ALWAYS the man.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 This is the truth ladies, When a man is afraid of making a commitment to you, it is because he fears that you may not be the best he can get. It is understandable if you think such men are deceivers, but actually these guys are the 'good guys. They are the guys who value marriage so much that they are very afraid of making the wrong decision. You should be more wary of guys who easily make commitments. Don't like the tone, but people ought to be wary of those who rush into commitments or are desperate for commitment just as must as those who are chronically commitment-phobic.
TheLoneSock Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) No guy is afraid of commitment... to the right girl. You have to remember that many have just been screwed over so badly that they'd rather keep people at distance than risk more pain. Many females are the same. It also depends greatly on where they are at in life. When it comes down to it though, no one would run from their dream girl or guy. Commitment issues or not. Also, the guys out there in active pursuit of a long term relationship or commitment as such are usually not attractive to women. And I don't mean anything physically. It's just the nature of the beast. Edited March 31, 2011 by TheLoneSock
TokyoG33kyGal Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 i agree with musemaj11, TheLoneSock and Kamille brought up a lot of good points that you can reflect on. Isn't it simply possible that the more extroverted men you prefer HAD the fear but never expressed it or fully formed it (not looking inwards)? may it be an introvert or extrovert, man or woman, we experience fear and doubts. i actually think it is a good thing that he shared what he feel rather than keeping you in the dark. that for me is more deceiving. just to relate an experience, i also had a share of commitment phobes. i had to break that pattern by being really choosy and looking at red flags as soon as they come up. then i met my fiancé. i have read before that healthy relationships at first don't come with all the fireworks. commitment phobes are usually eager to pursue a relationship first then stall when the issue of another level of commitment comes up. my fiancé was very cautious though, and so was i. he also had a share of commitment-phobic girls. we almost separated ways due to a similar thing. he raised a concern about doubts in our relationship. but, i know him. he is very open with everything. he likes to talk about feelings (even if it might hurt sometimes), he would share it. i got hurt by that and like you i entertained the same thoughts. but i clarified more about it right there and then, so i would know if it's still worth trying or not. sometimes it helps to clarify because your communication styles are different and we have the tendency to read between the lines or over-analyze. in our case, he was doubting if he can adjust to each other's neurosis/mannerisms. i thought it was such a silly thing but probably it's really something major for him. i told him that unless he tells me what specifically bothers him (about my behavior), he cannot expect me to read his mind and adjust accordingly to his expectations. in my part, i already know that i like him, i love him a lot...and any little thing that is not part of my deal breakers is something i could overlook and work on accepting. i don't wanna change who he is to mold him as the ideal guy in my head. i want him to be the ideal guy for who he is! i told him since i would like to give it a try, there's no need to rush our relationship. i will give him time to figure out if it's me he wants or not. well 2 months after that, he proposed to me i dunno how you will relate my story to yours but i like Kamille's approach. if you know he is worth it, fight for it. whatever his doubts, fears, thoughts about your relationship which he chose to keep to himself is not your problem. it's his to figure out. you would know if it's a lost cause if it's becoming a one-way relationship.
MrNate Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Every man on the planet you say? This isn't like you lol. Yes. Many, many guys are commitment phobes. Why, you ask? There's a plethora of reasons. The idea of spending the rest of your life with one woman, can be fairly heavy to take in. Also, the odds of finding that woman are very, very slim. I can honestly say that I've met 2 women my whole life so far, who I could see myself 100% committed to, and marrying. An earlier poster got it right, and I agree. A guy will have no problem committing to the woman who absolutely does it for him. (EMOTIONALLY) Honestly, I think this is why marriage in itself is so sacred. As we can see, there are so many things that need to line up.
Eeyore79 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I bumped into an old ex-bf and we had a polite chat. It turns out he broke up with his gf just before Christmas because she wanted marriage and kids, and he doesn't feel ready for it and doesn't want to commit. This is a man aged 32, who had dated this girl for 2.5 years and had lived with her for almost a year of that. My first feeling was relief: Thank God I'm not still dating him because I never realized he was so commitment phobic, and that could have been me hanging on for years waiting for him to propose. My second thought was: WTF? He's an adult with well over a decade of life experience under his belt, a stable job and a mortgage, so why isn't he ready for marriage? If he really cared about her, I don't understand why he'd dump her rather than commit to her. Unless he felt she wasn't right for him, in which case why was he living with her? I think it's perfectly reasonable for a woman of around 30-ish to want marriage and children with a man she's been with for a couple of years; it's not like they'd marry and give birth right away, they'd probably be engaged for a couple more years anyway. I guess this just goes to show that 1) Commitment phobic men can hide it very well (I dated him for several months and didn't know he was commitment phobic), and 2) There are obviously more commitment phobic men that I realized. Edited March 31, 2011 by Eeyore79
Author zengirl Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Every man on the planet you say? This isn't like you lol. Yes. Many, many guys are commitment phobes. Why, you ask? There's a plethora of reasons. The idea of spending the rest of your life with one woman, can be fairly heavy to take in. Also, the odds of finding that woman are very, very slim. I can honestly say that I've met 2 women my whole life so far, who I could see myself 100% committed to, and marrying. An earlier poster got it right, and I agree. A guy will have no problem committing to the woman who absolutely does it for him. (EMOTIONALLY) Honestly, I think this is why marriage in itself is so sacred. As we can see, there are so many things that need to line up. I find it odd this thread has trended so much towards marriage. I am not at a place where I could marry my BF. That doesn't mean I "fear" commitment. It seems a lot of pressure to put on a relationship --- to examine whether or not you could marry someone. To me, that's not something done internally, but something done together externally, after the relationship has continued. Also, as I've said, I've had proposals of marriage from men who said they feared commitment in general on some level. What does one make of that with advice such as this? I also guess I want to make a distinction: These are not men (save one I dated when I was in college) who don't want marriage, kids, etc. These are men who desperately DO want that. Some of them wanted it with me. But because they had points when they waivered, it created problems. I suppose I think the emotion of a relationship and commitment in it should build and build towards the crescendo of marriage, kids, etc, rather than ebb and flow. For my BF, it seems like it ebbs and flows; he goes after what he wants, then he gets afraid, then he deals with his fears, then he goes after what he wants. I think I've experienced that before as well. Some people --- like Kamille --- seem to think the way I want it to work is a bit unreasonable. I want someone to simply be All In at working toward that crescendo, knowing that if we see major issues, we'll break this thing off and go our separate ways, but that an issue either is a problem or it isn't. There's no room for doubt, fear, or uncertainty. Maybe others are saying they think that's possible? I'm not sure because the other POV seems skewed towards some other conversation. This guy IS in active pursuit of a LTR (in general and with me). He is the one who brings up marriage, kids, etc, and worries about having those things (I mean, I want them, someday, but I feel like I have plenty of time). So, he's not exactly "running off." Even when we broke up, it was half me saying if he had any doubts at all, we shouldn't be together. Kamille is right that I cannot tolerate doubt. I guess the question is has there ever been a man who at NO POINT in the relationship felt any doubt whatsoever towards it and the idea of committing to it 100%? And it had a successful end? (Marriage -- so I am not speaking to where the girl broke it off so early on, he didn't have time to doubt.)
Eeyore79 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I am not at a place where I could marry my BF. That doesn't mean I "fear" commitment. It seems a lot of pressure to put on a relationship --- to examine whether or not you could marry someone. Often you don't find out that someone has a fear of commitment until you approach the marriage stage. They may be perfectly happy with spending time together, having sex, etc... it isn't until the question of marriage arises that they start to back off. They're like someone who is scared to buy a house and wants to rent forever in order to keep their options open. You can waste 2-3 years in a relationship before you find out that someone doesn't want to commit. Of course, it's impossible to know whether someone fears commitment in general, or whether they just don't want to commit to you. In several cases I've been the one who backed off, because when I assessed the situation I decided that I didn't actually want to commit to that person. I'm not afraid of commitment in general, and would happily commit to the right person. I guess the bar is set a lot lower for dating than for marriage.
Kamille Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Some people --- like Kamille --- seem to think the way I want it to work is a bit unreasonable. I want someone to simply be All In at working toward that crescendo, knowing that if we see major issues, we'll break this thing off and go our separate ways, but that an issue either is a problem or it isn't. There's no room for doubt, fear, or uncertainty. I need to clarify: I don't think it's up to me to decide whether what you need is reasonable or unreasonable. I was offering alternative paths and different perspectives on the situation. He is the one who brings up marriage, kids, etc, and worries about having those things (I mean, I want them, someday, but I feel like I have plenty of time). So, he's not exactly "running off." I have to agree with Tokyogirl that it is a good thing he's opening up about this now. You may feel blindsided now - but hey, now you know he has doubts. And with that knowledge, you're currently capable of making the right decisions for yourself in the relationship. And if we neutralize the genders, one of my best friends had insane doubts about her relationship. They broke up twice and got back together twice, every time because of her doubts (she wasn't sure they were a compatible match). Today they're going on 3 years of being happily married with kids. She now looks back on that part of her life and only has one thing to say: Relationships grow over time. She realizes now that what she worried about then aren't her priorities now. Edited March 31, 2011 by Kamille
Eeyore79 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Don't like the tone, but people ought to be wary of those who rush into commitments or are desperate for commitment just as must as those who are chronically commitment-phobic. Quoted for truth. My ex mentioned the M word after two months of dating, and said he was checking out jewelry stores for a ring. Five months into the relationship he proposed. My previous ex had just got engaged and had a baby, and I was feeling lonely and left on the shelf, so I accepted his proposal - with hindsight it was a really dumb thing to do. I soon found out why he was so keen to marry me. Firstly, he wasn't good with women, hadn't dated much, and wanted to tie down an attractive girl while he had the opportunity (I can kind of understand this, but sadly it was about having any woman rather than me specifically). Secondly, he was a complete pain in the ass (hence why most women weren't interested in him) and he wouldn't even have got me if I hadn't been in a lonely place in my life. He became really possessive, doing stupid things like accusing me of having affairs with family members, peering over my shoulder all the time when I was online, and snooping through my personal letters and emails. One time he slept outside in his car because he didn't like me having a guest, and another time he jumped into the river saying he would kill himself because I was cheating. He insisted I had to give up my career and be his little wifey. We were only engaged for three months before I broke it off
MrNate Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I find it odd this thread has trended so much towards marriage. I am not at a place where I could marry my BF. That doesn't mean I "fear" commitment. It seems a lot of pressure to put on a relationship --- to examine whether or not you could marry someone. To me, that's not something done internally, but something done together externally, after the relationship has continued. Also, as I've said, I've had proposals of marriage from men who said they feared commitment in general on some level. What does one make of that with advice such as this? I also guess I want to make a distinction: These are not men (save one I dated when I was in college) who don't want marriage, kids, etc. These are men who desperately DO want that. Some of them wanted it with me. But because they had points when they waivered, it created problems. I suppose I think the emotion of a relationship and commitment in it should build and build towards the crescendo of marriage, kids, etc, rather than ebb and flow. For my BF, it seems like it ebbs and flows; he goes after what he wants, then he gets afraid, then he deals with his fears, then he goes after what he wants. I think I've experienced that before as well. Some people --- like Kamille --- seem to think the way I want it to work is a bit unreasonable. I want someone to simply be All In at working toward that crescendo, knowing that if we see major issues, we'll break this thing off and go our separate ways, but that an issue either is a problem or it isn't. There's no room for doubt, fear, or uncertainty. Maybe others are saying they think that's possible? I'm not sure because the other POV seems skewed towards some other conversation. This guy IS in active pursuit of a LTR (in general and with me). He is the one who brings up marriage, kids, etc, and worries about having those things (I mean, I want them, someday, but I feel like I have plenty of time). So, he's not exactly "running off." Even when we broke up, it was half me saying if he had any doubts at all, we shouldn't be together. Kamille is right that I cannot tolerate doubt. I guess the question is has there ever been a man who at NO POINT in the relationship felt any doubt whatsoever towards it and the idea of committing to it 100%? And it had a successful end? (Marriage -- so I am not speaking to where the girl broke it off so early on, he didn't have time to doubt.) All in at working towards this crescendo from the beginning eh? Well that's impossible to gauge. I think level of commitment is something that can't be put into words, but is solely reflected by one factor: time. All of the stellar relationships I've seen, those that have lasted year after year turned into marriages, or whatever. However, those that have encountered quite a bit of fighting even before a year, tended to not work out in the end. Why? Well, no one's fault. Just incompatibility. Concerning the last portion of your post. Of course there are men like that. My grandfather has been married to the same woman for 44 years. A few of my friends are finally marrying their girlfriends from way back in high school (been out for 5 years now). So yes, they're around.
Author zengirl Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) All in at working towards this crescendo from the beginning eh? Well that's impossible to gauge. I mean "All In" at any given moment (no doubts at where you are) and working towards stability/time together/natural evolution + on the same page in terms of what the absolute goal of a successful relationship is (i.e. both wanting marriage). Not like knowing you want to marry someone at the beginning, which would be crazy. But not leaping forward and then jumping backwards. Only moving steadily forward and taking each step when you are 100%. I think level of commitment is something that can't be put into words, but is solely reflected by one factor: time. All of the stellar relationships I've seen, those that have lasted year after year turned into marriages, or whatever. Maybe. I guess I just want to be 100% at each moment, wherever that moment's level is (whether it's 100% committed to going on a first date or 100% committed to marrying someone). I think maybe the issue I have is that I try to live in the moment and am mostly successful with it, but I find it hard to find a commitment-minded, stable man who lives in the moment. Most guys who live in the moment are driven by sex and the like----and that's not even real "living in the moment"; most people who say they live in the moment are really just being irresponsible. I guess I make decisions very different from other people. That's what my roommates both say. I decide to move somewhere, and then I do. I decide to change careers, and then I do. No hemming or hawing or thinking or pondering. I decide, I act, I move forward. However, I don't tend to like men who react this way, as they tend to be overly alpha and have an inflated sense of self and overabundant ego. I've yet to meet a man who was firmly decisive, intelligent, and successful AND didn't have an overabundance of pride and power issues. Even the ex I broke up with because he got successful and egotistical, that is the same thing---he got more decisive, stronger, more successful, and then he had this ginormous ego that seemed to grow out of nowhere. If he could have practiced anatta, we would probably be married. Concerning the last portion of your post. Of course there are men like that. My grandfather has been married to the same woman for 44 years. A few of my friends are finally marrying their girlfriends from way back in high school (been out for 5 years now). So yes, they're around. And have you asked them if they never had doubts? I asked my step-father (married to my Mom for 17 years now, together 18 years now) and he said he had doubts at one point. That really threw me for a loop. So did many of my married male friends. That's mostly what I'm reeling from. I'm not talking about actions. I'm talking about thoughts. I don't even want a man to THINK he has doubts. You keep talking about actions. I know a lot of people think actions are most important, and I agree that they are the MOST important, but thoughts are important too, as I see them as a type of action. ETA: This makes me realize how much my beliefs (zen, anatta, wabi sabi, thoughts as they are in the karmic circle, etc) plays into my relationships. Maybe I should have found myself a Japanese Buddhist when I had the chance, haha. But I think, after reading all of this, it comes from dating only men who doubt themselves, as those are the only men I find attractive. Men without any sort of self-doubt usually seem egotistical and like Alpha cowboy types to me; yet, I have yet to meet very many people -- and no men -- who can balance self-doubt with 100% action in a direction. To me, people who don't doubt themselves lack depth and compassion----they are egotistical, they are jerks, they attempt to convert others to their way of doing things, etc. However, people who indulge doubt are betraying themselves and the people around them. It is about keeping the impossible balance. Edited March 31, 2011 by zengirl
ChessPieceFace Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Take a more objective look at how lopsided marriage is in western civilization and then figure out why men don't want to marry. To the courts, fathers are nothing more than a meal ticket. Would you sign a pre-nup? If not, you have no one to blame but yourself. I used to think I was a really commitment-oriented person. Until I really started thinking about what women were like. I actually believe very strongly in commitment. However, I don't trust American women at all.
Mrlonelyone Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Zengirl I can feel where you are comming from in the last post. I calculated the size of my dating pool to be about 1% of all people. 1% is probably not too much smaller than it is for most people. When we take into account our core values, our personality traits that might turn other people off, our prejudices, and other peoples prejudices and are totally honest it's not a huge number. You want a man with very specific traits. Only 1 or 2% of men will have a significant number of those traits. However that's still going to be millions and millions of people. So that's millions of chances to find that guy who "lives in the moment", but is responsible, who shares your belifes and core values. He exist...millions of him exist. The question is your current man one of them?
Kelemort Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 This is an interesting topic, as I have dated men who were all commitment from the get-go and some men who only turned that way later on. In my past relationship (granted, I was 19-20), I was never interested in getting married to the guy. He was just awful. I finally decided to end it when he mentioned that he thought about us getting married. I couldn't decide if that vision of his made me want to laugh (out of the absurdity) or cry (out of the horror), so I knew that the relationship was over. I think he was co-dependent, though, and he needed somebody - anybody - to be in a relationship with him. In my current relationship, we started dating when I was 20 and he was 25. He had recently graduated from college and he was working a decent-ish job - enough to pay the bills, but it was mostly dead-end. I was insecure back in the beginning because of many things he did (that are now resolved, thankfully) and I would bring up engagements and marriage a lot. This actually pisses me off, but I felt like I couldn't bring up engagement or marriage AT ALL until we had been dating for just over a year. I finally told him, "Look, we have been in this for too long for me to not know: do you ever see yourself getting married? Because if not, it's time for me to move on because I someday want to." I guess every time I brought it up before, he just assumed that I was asking if he wanted to marry ME, not if he wanted to ever get married in general. And that's an important question to ask. Ladies, I think that one should be resolved in the first few months. You should be able to ask. And if he won't answer, it's time to move on out. Then we had a lot of problems and I just stopped caring as much about commitment, engagement, marriage, all of it. I just decided that I was happy in the relationship as-is and I wasn't going to base my self-esteem on whether or not he wanted to commit to me. He's now pushing 28 and many of his friends and co-workers are engaged, married or they have kids. One of his co-workers is also his friend, and the guy's been married for several years and has a one-year-old son. I guess they'll often go out to lunch together and babies and marriage are the focal point of their discussions. I know that my s/o envies his friend for having a family. His younger sister also married about 3 years back when she was 22, and that has had a big effect on him. From the time we first started dating, but especially now, he'll bring up how his "baby sister" got married before him, and how he wished that hadn't been so, etc. Now the tables have turned and I went from being the one bringing up marriage and our future to not mentioning it much at all, and he's the one who's looking into the future every week now. "I want us to get married soon." "I don't know where we'd get married." "All of my friends are married and they have kids, and I feel like I'm behind. I want to have those things too." "I hope you'll be my wife someday." I think it's partly where the men are at in their lives - career stability, if they live on their own or not, their age - how long they've been with the woman - and where their friends are at in their lives. I think that a lot of men start looking more toward commitment when their peers are increasingly doing the same. I've known plenty of men who won't seriously date when they're living with others or their parents, and plenty of men who do nothing but go on serial dates when their career prospects aren't solid. I don't know how old you are, but there are men out there who aren't afraid of commitment. I just think it really only shows once they start getting older. Late 20s, early 30s seems to be when most of them start wanting to settle down and have a family.
Kelemort Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I just think it's unrealistic that anyone moving towards marriage isn't going to have doubts. Because at the end of the day, you're casting out all of the other options hopefully on the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with. You SHOULD be thinking about how she leaves all of her messes around and how that might irritate you; you SHOULD be thinking about how often he goes out with his friends every week. We are all bothered about something by our significant others, and those will surely pop up in your head - even if only for a second - and make you fearful. I think that's the sign of a healthy and rational person. I have had doubts in my relationship - granted, we have also had a few major hurdles to work through. Most of those are largely resolved now, and that has helped us to move forward. But I am sure that even when we get engaged, I will have fleeting doubts. But I would have those with ANYONE, even if I met 'the guy of my dreams.' The fact is I'm still accepting he's it for LIFE, and who knows what I'll be like when I'm 60? Maybe I'll be completely different and we'll grow apart. A "for the rest of my life" contract is a big deal.
Author zengirl Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I have no interest in limiting my dating pool in a destructive way, Mr.Lonelyone, so I'm willing to change things up, if that's the issue and it makes me happier. Change is fundamental to happiness. We are all bothered about something by our significant others, and those will surely pop up in your head - even if only for a second - and make you fearful. I guess my reaction to this comes from how I process it. When I get bothered by something, I find out the root of it before I get fearful usually (certainly before I express that fear or act on it!), then I deal with it. I don't bounce doubts back and forth in my brain. Anytime I've done that, I've broken the relationship or changed my path (for instance, when I've had doubts about living in a country anymore, I moved; I never had doubts, resolved them, and stayed). I have heard that people can have doubts, resolve them, and stay. I suppose I have trouble "believing" it because I have never been able to do so with anything -- career, country, person, etc. To me, doubts are poison.
Kamille Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I guess my reaction to this comes from how I process it. When I get bothered by something, I find out the root of it before I get fearful usually (certainly before I express that fear or act on it!), then I deal with it. I don't bounce doubts back and forth in my brain. Anytime I've done that, I've broken the relationship or changed my path (for instance, when I've had doubts about living in a country anymore, I moved; I never had doubts, resolved them, and stayed). When I found out your bf and you had agreed to give your relationship a second chance, I was happy for you. I'm confident you've decided to give this relationship a chance because you believe enough in it to do so. Clearly, in order for you two to move forward, you need to be able to address the issues that caused the break up. What provoked the break-up was that he expressed having doubts. You gave him a second chance. Now, it sounds to me like he's doing the work of trying to figure out the issues behind the break up. I don't think he's necessarily bouncing doubts back and forth in his brain. In fact, his exploration of the topic seems to me like is his way of working on what caused the initial break up. I think, for you, the simple solution would be the following: be all in or get out. (It's a valuable solution). It sounds like, to him, getting back together involves more of a "let's explore this together" approach (another valuable solution, but one that is diametrically opposed to the first). I also feel like you're conflicted between two values: the importance he has in your life (and perhaps your desire to honor the beautiful things you share) and your need to have a man who doesn't express any doubts. Perhaps your decision as to whether or not you can compromise on the current solution could be based on which of those two values has priority for you. Let me be clear, I am not judging what is best for you. I am trying to explore alternatives ways of thinking about questions that are important to you.
MrNate Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I mean "All In" at any given moment (no doubts at where you are) and working towards stability/time together/natural evolution + on the same page in terms of what the absolute goal of a successful relationship is (i.e. both wanting marriage). Not like knowing you want to marry someone at the beginning, which would be crazy. But not leaping forward and then jumping backwards. Only moving steadily forward and taking each step when you are 100%. Maybe. I guess I just want to be 100% at each moment, wherever that moment's level is (whether it's 100% committed to going on a first date or 100% committed to marrying someone). I think maybe the issue I have is that I try to live in the moment and am mostly successful with it, but I find it hard to find a commitment-minded, stable man who lives in the moment. Most guys who live in the moment are driven by sex and the like----and that's not even real "living in the moment"; most people who say they live in the moment are really just being irresponsible. I guess I make decisions very different from other people. That's what my roommates both say. I decide to move somewhere, and then I do. I decide to change careers, and then I do. No hemming or hawing or thinking or pondering. I decide, I act, I move forward. However, I don't tend to like men who react this way, as they tend to be overly alpha and have an inflated sense of self and overabundant ego. I've yet to meet a man who was firmly decisive, intelligent, and successful AND didn't have an overabundance of pride and power issues. Even the ex I broke up with because he got successful and egotistical, that is the same thing---he got more decisive, stronger, more successful, and then he had this ginormous ego that seemed to grow out of nowhere. If he could have practiced anatta, we would probably be married. And have you asked them if they never had doubts? I asked my step-father (married to my Mom for 17 years now, together 18 years now) and he said he had doubts at one point. That really threw me for a loop. So did many of my married male friends. That's mostly what I'm reeling from. I'm not talking about actions. I'm talking about thoughts. I don't even want a man to THINK he has doubts. You keep talking about actions. I know a lot of people think actions are most important, and I agree that they are the MOST important, but thoughts are important too, as I see them as a type of action. ETA: This makes me realize how much my beliefs (zen, anatta, wabi sabi, thoughts as they are in the karmic circle, etc) plays into my relationships. Maybe I should have found myself a Japanese Buddhist when I had the chance, haha. But I think, after reading all of this, it comes from dating only men who doubt themselves, as those are the only men I find attractive. Men without any sort of self-doubt usually seem egotistical and like Alpha cowboy types to me; yet, I have yet to meet very many people -- and no men -- who can balance self-doubt with 100% action in a direction. To me, people who don't doubt themselves lack depth and compassion----they are egotistical, they are jerks, they attempt to convert others to their way of doing things, etc. However, people who indulge doubt are betraying themselves and the people around them. It is about keeping the impossible balance. And you know all men aren't like this, correct? So do you actively choose not to date these types of people you want? Because this obviously seems like the type of man you wouldn't mind being with. Ha, it basically seems like you're saying I like these types of men, but because they all seem to be this way, I'm not going to bother with it. I think we found our answer. Or, just go snag that Buddhist lol.
threebyfate Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 But I think, after reading all of this, it comes from dating only men who doubt themselves, as those are the only men I find attractive. Men without any sort of self-doubt usually seem egotistical and like Alpha cowboy types to me; yet, I have yet to meet very many people -- and no men -- who can balance self-doubt with 100% action in a direction. To me, people who don't doubt themselves lack depth and compassion----they are egotistical, they are jerks, they attempt to convert others to their way of doing things, etc. However, people who indulge doubt are betraying themselves and the people around them. It is about keeping the impossible balance.Reread this over and over. Your thought processes are polar extremes. Balance is key and I'm not seeing any balance in your statements. So, net effect, your issues are within you to resolve. Try not to project.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 When a man is afraid of making a commitment to you, it is because he fears that you may not be the best he can get. It is understandable if you think such men are deceivers, but actually these guys are the 'good guys. No, they aren't good guys. A good guy would stay the hell away from me if he thought he could do better -- not tell me he never wanted to get married before he met me, I make him want to be a better man, and assorted other bull****.
heartshaped Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Zengirl, one thing I have noticed through following your posts is that you almost use doubt and fear as synonyms. Being afraid of commitment and doubting your relationship with someone are two distinctly different things. Yes, fear can cause doubt and doubt can cause fear, but if at the root of things, his problem is fear then that is what the issue is and any doubt that is caused by that fear is rather irrelevant. You are a very rational person which is something I admire about you, but you cannot rationalize fear because fear, more often than not, is irrational. I say this from the standpoint of being afraid of something that we want or even something that we like or strive to have or do doesn't make much sense. It doesn't follow logically thinking. I do think it is rather impossible to find someone that has no fear of commitment. If you find such a person, either they have never known heartbreak or they do not truly understand or take seriously what commitment means. People have different degrees of fear, however, and handle fear in different ways. Some let fear paralyze them, others internalize that fear, and others still strike out because of that fear. I do not think what a person is afraid of should determine whether or not they are suitable for a relationship. If anything, it should be admired that someone you are with would be so honest, forthcoming, and self aware. I fear many things, but none that I would openly disclose even to those closest to me. I do think if needed he should get counseling to deal with his fear, if it is of such a quantity and substance that it is effecting your relationship, and he cannot deal with it on his own. He has confided in you so you can support him through this and I hope you are able to do so.
alphamale Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Men initiate all relationships. actually women initiate relationships... Who brings up "the talk"? ALWAYS the man. WTF?? I've never brought up "the talk". Thats the womans job what world are u living in man?
waynebrady Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 actually women initiate relationships... WTF?? I've never brought up "the talk". Thats the womans job what world are u living in man? In what way do they initiate relationships? They are passive, they don't make the first move. I'm 100% sure most women will say it's the mans job to bring up the talk. Considering you are supposed to be an "alphamale" shouldn't you be initiating everything anyway? Alphamale's don't tend to make the woman have to put in any effort.
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