Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I'm 23 and my significant other is 27. We have been dating for 2 1/2 years. We started having sex around a year in, but it has been lackluster from the very start. We've routinely had sex 1 - 2 times a month from the get-go, and sometimes even then there would be 1 or 2 month gaps. I would be happy if we had sex at least once a week. And even that's kind of paltry to me. I basically initiate every time. He very rarely initiates. Every time that I initiate (or at least 9 times out of 10), I am rejected. I only got lucky the other day because I opened the condom first. He later told me that he still thought about telling me "no," but decided to go for it anyway. It really hurt me when he told me that. He tells me that I'm putting too much pressure on him about this issue, but if I NEVER put any pressure on it, nothing ever happens. I admit that when he first turns me down, I always insist at least a little longer, until he starts getting aggravated. Then I just drop the matter and chalk it up to another day, possibly another week or month of us not having sex. He likes to have oral sex, and he'd probably do that 3 to 5 times a week if I let him. I can count on both hands the number of times I've been the recipient since we started dating. I've decided to cut him off there. I'm done doing it and getting nothing in return. He tried to claim that he didn't have sex with me when we first started because I had expressed hesitation or regret over us having sex. From there, it turned into, "I'm afraid of getting you pregnant." Now we use condoms, spermicide and I'm on birth control pills and I haven't got a single clue what the excuse is now. I guess I'm just too aggressively pursuing it. It's to the point where I almost don't even care anymore. I just decided that I'm not going to approach him sexually anymore. What's the point? It feels really good, even when you're engaging in foreplay, to get shot down yet again. When he tries to touch me intimately, I push his hands away. Our kisses for the last several months have been mostly cold. In the beginning of our relationship, we used to make out. Not anymore. Every time I discuss these issues with him or try to bring them up, I'm informed that I'm too aggressive. I guess "not being aggressive" would be waiting the mandatory two months before I approach him sexually in the future. Seriously, it's ridiculous that this is going on. From everything I know, he had a relatively healthy sex life with his ex-girlfriend, given that it was a long-distance relationship. He shows interest in the opposite sex. I know he masturbates. I know he watches porn. In the beginning, I always just figured circumstances were preventing us. But now he's pulling out lines like, "Oh, I'm an old man and my libido's not that strong anymore, that's why." This makes me feel...hideous, in short. Once he's had his fill, so to speak, he leaves the room. And I'm left to use toys by myself to get any satisfaction. When he does bother to stick around, he just sits there and watches. He's never really involved. I'll invite him to and then after a few minutes, he's tired or he has something else to do. I guess the only thing I can figure out to do now is to ignore him sexually. Push his hands away when he tries to touch, since that never leads anywhere anyhow (he's a master tease, I guess). Turn him down if/when he initiates sex. I'm losing interest in him sexually and I know this is a bad thing. When I fantasize, I often think about my ex-boyfriend or other men I know, since they have shown more interest in me sexually - either past or present - than my own boyfriend does. My thinking is that maybe when he gets a taste of his own medicine, it might finally motivate him to action. This has worked for other problems we've had, and the solution has been in effect ever since. I feel like we have talked the issue to death, explored every possible avenue for what could be wrong, and still we get no where. The boy just doesn't want to have intercourse with me. He'll still kiss me sometimes, rub my back, try to touch me. But it's all a tease. That's as far as it goes, usually. Does anybody else have any advice? He's only 27 - seems a little young for Viagra, but I'm running out of options here. This has impacted my self-esteem a great deal in the last several months, and I'm done with dealing with it. I can't just pretend that sex isn't at all important. It's a big deal and I only see myself going into my 30s or 40s possibly facing a sexless marriage. As it is, we're not far from the definition of a sexless marriage in terms of our frequency - I think they classify 'sexless' as less than 10 times a year.
waynebrady Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I basically initiate every time. He very rarely initiates. Every time that I initiate (or at least 9 times out of 10), I am rejected. I only got lucky the other day because I opened the condom first. He later told me that he still thought about telling me "no," but decided to go for it anyway. It really hurt me when he told me that. BS. Women never initiate sex,
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 lololol...maybe you're just dating the wrong ones!
ShatteredReality Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 BS. Women never initiate sex, Wayne - Just because women never initiate sex with YOU doesn't mean they never initiate sex. Kelemort - I am the primary initiator for sex in my marriage. I always have been and most likely always will be. I don't like being rejected and therefore if it happens more than two or three times in a row I stop initiating. We have had lulls in the past...up to three weeks at times, but for the most part I think we keep a fairly steady 3 times a week routine going. Much less and I'd kinda lose it to be honest. I have a much higher sex drive than my husband does and have had to talk to him in the past about how his rejections make me feel. He, like your boyfriend, is fine with getting blow jobs more often than having sex, while I am not. He didn't used to return the favor very frequently, but has since turned his thinking around about that and now seems to enjoy giving. I tend to try to finish him off first, though, so I can relax when he's done instead of having to hop up and get to work. As bad as that may sound, he seems fine with that arrangement...and it's not something I am forceful about, he just knows it's my preference. So about your issue here with his lack of drive. I think you need to sit him down and tell him exactly how his behavior makes you feel. If you're being too pushy in his opinion then tell him that you're sorry to come off that way, but there is a very important need not being met for you here and this is the type of thing that will end relationships. See if he will do something in an attempt to increase his desire - he can take herbs, eat the right foods... Is he on antidepressants or ADD meds? Those have a negative affect on a persons sex drive sometimes - and if he's too into porn then that could also be part of the issue. Men who enjoy porn more than sex often turn to it instead of sex...it's their addiction. I would probably wager that's your issue first and foremost - he prefers his hand or your mouth to actual sex and he's selfish about all of it - these are some of the things a man with a porn addiction will do. It's because porn is typically a selfish method for release - a person gets what they want out of it without having to bother with pleasing anybody else and it's done in the amount of time they want without being bothered by anybody elses timeframe. Not all people who watch porn are like this (this is my disclaimer so I don't get jumped on) but those with addiction and some who are just selfish lovers to begin with ARE.
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) He's not on any anti-depressants. He works full-time, so he's occupied from 8 until 5:30 5 days a week. A few nights a week, he's involved with a few groups that can take an hour or two of his time, so we don't always see each other for a long span of time. He used to touch me. Boy, do I ever regret buying a vibrator. Once I bought that, he decided not even to touch me anymore, really. Every now and then - maybe once every month or two - he'll actually spend time touching me. Other than that...geez. I've asked him if he's depressed and he insists he's not. He's outgoing and he's active, so I doubt he is. He's acknowledged that he's very selfish when it comes to bedroom play before, and he's vowed to be more involved in that. For a few weeks, he was giving oral at least once or twice a week. And then a few months ago, that just died out. Now we're back to our familiar pattern of him wanting oral from me, and then he's totally done and out. If he finishes first, I can kiss my chances of getting pleased at all good-bye. For a while, that was our system - I was supposed to finish first before I got to him, because apparently he couldn't be bothered after he was done. At this point I guess just rejecting him and not doing anything anymore is the best route to take. Teach him that to get, he has to give. I don't want to be the primary initiator for the rest of my life. It would be one thing if he accepted it. But he rarely if ever does. I'm setting a reasonable timeline for myself. If he can't shape up, then he can ship out. I'm just not going to do this for a lifetime. I've emphasized how it makes me feel. He'll just always say, "I think you're very attractive, it has nothing to do with that." And that's about it. The excuses, like I've said, have always changed: I'm afraid I'll get you pregnant/ you weren't sure way back when that you wanted to have sex with me/ I'd feel more comfortable if you were on birth control/I'm getting old. I just feel like I'm talking to a wall about the issue. It's not like I try to initiate all of the time - probably twice a week. In the last several months...maybe the last 5 - 6 months...he's probably initiated only 5 or so times, if that. Maybe slightly more. It just really hurt me when he told me that I was being 'too aggressive.' I'm not out to be passive-aggressive about it, but honestly I'm just done with games. I'm tired of being teased and played with, and then when I take it further, being met with a sharp rebuke and a "Lol! Nope!" I mean, it's just torture at that point. So as soon as he starts touching, I just push him away. We'll see, I guess... Edited March 30, 2011 by Kelemort
ShatteredReality Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Let us know how that works for ya. If I push my husband away he sees it as a worse rejection than I do and he gets very emotional. It becomes a huge argument that lasts awhile where I am painted as a heartless B***h for being so insensitive to his needs. And I get a litany of excuses when he's not "in the mood". Headache, back hurts, tired, busy, ate too much, can't stop thinking about business/news/*place problem here*, etc. Like I said...after a couple rejects I quit asking. If he doesn't come to me for awhile after that then I eventually sit him down and ask him what's going on. Open communication is huge for us - has been for a couple years now. If he were to just tell me that I am beautiful I would tell him that's not enough. Actions speak louder than words and right now I don't feel beautiful because his words don't mean anything when they're not followed up with anything. I used to have to finish first in order to get any...and with SEX I do - cause once he's done he's done, but with oral he'll take a short happy break and then come back for me...huge progress...first....ohhh....6 years were not like that. I am interested in hearing how he reacts to you rejecting him, though...please update on that...I doubt he'll like it very much!!
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 His rejections have caused so many problems in our relationship. About six months ago, I returned to a dating site I had abandoned back when I was single. I told him what I was doing and reassured him that it was just for an ego boost - to find others to make me feel sexy and beautiful. I did get positive feedback from them. I was sincere in my belief that it was just for the ego boost. I didn't flirt with them, but they flirted with me. Many of them invited me out for lunch or coffee. Some wanted more. The temptation was strong - but I never replied to them when it got to that point. I guess I'm too loyal. Although deep down, a romp would be wonderful. I miss feeling attractive and wanted. Who knows with this one. During the week, he's busy so I doubt he'd notice. During the week, we have a gap of 1 - 3 hours to hang out. Long enough to screw, but apparently not long enough for him. One time when we went two months without sex, I finally told him, "Look, this is when we last had sex." He told me he had no idea it had been so long! He didn't even -notice!- His latest excuse is that it's because we don't live together. But we spend much of our free time together, so I fail to see the excuse. Yet I know when I move in and it persists, it will be some other excuse he comes up with. I feel like I'm just going through hoops. I started birth control to solve this problem, but he still shoots me down. I hope it does something. If not, in 3 months I am gone. I'm not doing a lifetime of this. I'm sad that this issue has finally come to a head nearly 3 years in, but I'm tired of placating him when such a big need is going unfulfilled. I'll let you know how it works out. I'm sure he'll be unhappy. But screw him! I'm done with talking to a wall.
Feelin Frisky Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Kelemort, I sorry you are having this experience. I have never seen a "frigid" guy but this guy is acting like he's frigid for whatever reason. I will not speculate on the reasons. The bottom line is that this NEVER GETS BETTER. Take action while you're still young and start closing off this phase of your life. Everyone deserves better. There's no getting the time back so try to start minimizing how much more you put into this. There are many many men who will be the opposite of this guy and want you all the time. Good luck and be strong.
freestyle Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Actually, the "frigid guy" is more common than you might think. From what I've read on other support forums, in particular those for people dealing with partners with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)---withholding affection and sex is a very common tactic used by people with NPD.It's also very common with men who have PAPD (Passive-Aggressive Personality DIsorder) If they know something is important to you--they will deliberately withhold it. I'm not presuming your guy has either of these disorders, I'm just saying it's more common than a lot of people think.And yes, it can be devastating to a person's self-esteem, to be continually rejected, and treated as if their needs are irrelevant. Kelemort, I think the longer you stick around for this, the more damage can be done to your self-esteem, and your ability to feel desirable.I'm glad you have a deadline in place, although I think you're being a little too generous with three months.
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I've been doing it for a year and a half...three months is a drop in the hat, sadly. On another note - my mother is a narcissist.
ShatteredReality Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Kelemort, I sorry you are having this experience. I have never seen a "frigid" guy but this guy is acting like he's frigid for whatever reason. I will not speculate on the reasons. The bottom line is that this NEVER GETS BETTER. Take action while you're still young and start closing off this phase of your life. Everyone deserves better. There's no getting the time back so try to start minimizing how much more you put into this. There are many many men who will be the opposite of this guy and want you all the time. Good luck and be strong. Frisky is right about this...I mean...the sex itself can improve with effort...but the frequency often does not. In the beginning my H and I had sex daily. Only once a day, though...he was rarely up for more than once...I remember thinking this was odd for such a young guy (we married at 19), but told myself that as time went on it would change...that as he learned more and found out what he liked more (he was a virgin when I met him) he'd begin to want it more - after all, I'm the girl, so he's SUPPOSED to want it more than me. I was naive and young...and over time as he wanted it LESS...then he began taking antidepressants and DAYS would go by or even stretch into a week or more...I became worried it was me. I still worry sometimes that it's the extra lbs I have taken on since having kids or perhaps it'd the way that I look in certain positions that he doesn't like....but more than anything I have to accept that is part of HIM. I love him and I am willing to handle a sex life that isn't perfect or as frequent as I'd like, but I could not live in a sexless marriage....you should not have to put up with that. Sex is a huge part of how we express our love towards one another and if he's not willing to put that effort forward it will not improve on it's own "with time". He either needs to show an effort or you need to begin to make plans on what you'll do next - because, while sex isn't the only reason to be with a person or the only important aspect in a relationship, it's still an important part and if it's missing other things will begin to fail as well....and eventually you WILL give in to that temptation when another man makes you feel desireable....because you will be so vulnerable to it. I would tell him how serious this issue is, though, so he can't say that "he didn't know" and use that as an emotional weapon against you. Also...there are a number of personality disorders that have a symptom of the man not wanting sex much - antisocial disorder and schizoid disorder (not schizophrenia - they are quite different actually). But then...if that's the cause behind this - he's got plenty of other issues you're contending with as well.
freestyle Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I've been doing it for a year and a half...three months is a drop in the hat, sadly. On another note - my mother is a narcissist. Wow a year and a half-------Well, it's your call of course--I still think you're being too generous. Time is precious......... So your Mom has NPD? ( very sorry to hear that, BTW.) Was she stingy with affection and attention? (that's usually the norm with NPD parents, they're too self-absorbed to truly see that their children have needs, too)(they tend to view their kids as little more than extensions of themselves,rather than separate , unique individuals with their own voice and point of view) Do you think it's possible that you're re-enacting a childhood drama of having to "fight" for attention and affection?
somedude81 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I'm amazed at why women even put up with this. If you're not getting the sex you want, leave him and find somebody who will! It's just so frustrating being a guy with a very high sex drive but never having a chance to actually use it and hear stories like this where the guy might as well be 90 years old.
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 My mother was an engulfer, actually - she wasn't an ignoring. So as a kid, there was plenty of attention. I never felt like that was an issue. It was only as I got older and started asserting my own independence that a whole host of issues started springing up. I have frequently dealt with her overstepping boundaries - opening my mail, breaking into my e-mail or Facebook accounts, etc. It has been very trying. I don't think I'm acting out any drama, but I do think I have a tendency to pick partners who sometimes display her coldness when she's angry. I know that ultimately you guys are probably right. I'm still sort of just in denial at the moment. I know that'll pass...it's just tough to really make any clear-cut decisions right now. I feel like a fool for tolerating it for so long and believing his myriads of different excuses.
Author Kelemort Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I've always had low self-esteem and guys haven't exactly been beating my door down. A dating site is kind of different in that I suspect most guys on there probably just auto-message every woman in a 5 mile vicinity. It should be as simple as, "You're unhappy? then leave!" But often there are issues that make it more complicated than that. Prior to this relationship, I had one boyfriend. Other than that, no one has really shown any serious interest. And that boyfriend was the one who actually wanted in my pants! Oh, why didn't I let him?! It's good to hear there are men out there with sex drives, though. 3 - 4 times a week would be AMAZING. Or maybe too much at this point - I've been deprived so long it might be sensory overload
somedude81 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 3 or 4 times a week would be amazing?! My ideal would be somewhere between 10 and 21 (that's 7 days a week with a couple of days of two times in a day. Max of 21 times is 3x a day. I probably couldn't keep that up for long ) Kelemort, you really don't seem like the person who would have trouble finding a guy to replace him. You could start actively looking. Now I just need to find a girl whose unhappy and somehow let her know that I can take care of it. LOL any chance you're in California
dreamingoftigers Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 So, how's his obvious porn addiction doing? Sorry girl but if he doesn't notice it has been over a month you've got yourself and porn and masturbation guy.
Author Kelemort Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Negative, my friend - I'm in Michigan. Quite a commute for a lay. Uhhh, I'm not sure if I could keep up with you though. That's the sort of thing where they need to go in and reinforce my genitalia to make sure it can withstand that much. Everyone's suggesting a porn addiction - I don't think he has a porn addiction. If anything, I think stress from work and other obligations could be dampening it. He does masturbate...probably 1 to 2 times a week. I think he's just satisfied with oral sex, on a very selfish level, and that's all he's interested in. When I talk about these gaps, I'm speaking specifically about intercourse. As for blowjobs? I've been more than generous in the past, but lately that's a once or twice a week affair. Not anymore. But yeah, to be honest it really, really, really hurts me. Very badly. It is difficult to find someone else to date - not that I'm sumo sized, but I am overweight, and that has caused complications in the dating scene. Everyone wants a model, y'know.
somedude81 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Negative, my friend - I'm in Michigan. Quite a commute for a lay. Uhhh, I'm not sure if I could keep up with you though. That's the sort of thing where they need to go in and reinforce my genitalia to make sure it can withstand that much. LOL, what would that even be called? How about VagArmor™ Everyone's suggesting a porn addiction - I don't think he has a porn addiction. If anything, I think stress from work and other obligations could be dampening it. He does masturbate...probably 1 to 2 times a week. I think he's just satisfied with oral sex, on a very selfish level, and that's all he's interested in. When I talk about these gaps, I'm speaking specifically about intercourse. As for blowjobs? I've been more than generous in the past, but lately that's a once or twice a week affair. Not anymore. It does sound like it could be stress related. Would you have a rough idea of how many times a week he gets off? Including masturbation, oral and sex? Cutting out the oral seems like a good idea. Since only the guy gets something out of it, I've always seen it as a type of reward for being a good boy. It is difficult to find someone else to date - not that I'm sumo sized, but I am overweight, and that has caused complications in the dating scene. Everyone wants a model, y'know. Gym and diet. Right now I'm not happy with my body and want to lose my gut. My school gym has the really cool stationary bike video game type thing that I just discovered. I was on it for about 30 min today. It was a good work out and pretty fun. Changing my diet and eating healthier is going to be the hardest part.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 So, how's his obvious porn addiction doing? Sorry girl but if he doesn't notice it has been over a month you've got yourself and porn and masturbation guy.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 So, how's his obvious porn addiction doing? Sorry girl but if he doesn't notice it has been over a month you've got yourself and porn and masturbation guy. Sorry double post
Feelin Frisky Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 ...I am overweight, and that has caused complications in the dating scene. Everyone wants a model, y'know. I know how that is and have always struggled with weight. But you can't procrastinate your life away. Why not commit to a campaign of change yourself to build a more marketable you so that you can dump this dead end guy? It's tough--no one knows that more than me as I've always had weight issues--but when it comes to big life direction decisions the strength will be there if you are determined.
Author Kelemort Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 He started a new job in January. Prior to that, he worked from home. His last job was stressful, but he had a lot more downtime - I'd say back then he was probably getting off 3 - 5 times a week. This job now is one he's happier with, but it's also stressful and he's out of the house. He's also involved in some extracurricular stuff, which has been picking up more in the last month or two - he has more to do for all of it. We ended up talking about it last night and I laid down the ground rules: I'm not initiating anymore and I'm not giving him oral sex. I expected that he would be angry - but instead he agreed with what I had to say. I told him that it had to change or he was going to lose me, and I was done recognizing his BS excuses. He said he's still afraid that I'm going to get pregnant (despite using 3 -good- prevention methods) and he's trying to get over it. We did sleep together twice in the space of 3 days last week, which is absolutely remarkable for us. I can think of only one or two other times previously when something like that has happened. I mentioned how he hurt me when he told me that he was going to turn me down the other day when we had sex. He explained that at first he didn't feel like he was in the mood, but then he changed his mind. At the very least he went through with it - but he still shouldn't have told me, "I felt like saying no." I told him that I have a deadline in place and that improvements need to happen or I'm gone. He agreed with that, too. I have noticed some improvements. Before he went to work this morning, he was in full-on-grope mode. I just let him do it. I didn't touch him back. We didn't have time for anything else, I'm afraid - it was to the shower and off to work. This is a tough decision because despite this problem, I'm relatively happy in the relationship and he's a good guy. But I'm not backing down. I think last night it struck him that I was serious and I wasn't going to be batted back into silence. I told him that he needs to get a grip on the problem or he's going to end up alone. I'll uh let you know if anything else changes. If others are having this problem, maybe they should try this route. He's wanting me to move in and wanting us to get engaged and married. I told him he better shape up, then, because I'm not doing "Sexless at 30." I can understand his concerns about me getting pregnant - to an extent. I'm still quite young, we're unmarried, and we both have conservative families (although we ourselves are atheists). I get that if we're not married, I wouldn't have access to his health insurance and it would be super-expensive for me to get prenatal care. I understand that his family especially would be disapproving. But the fact is we use condoms, birth control and spermicide every time. If we manage to have a kid somehow, I am naming it "Jesus." Seriously. Honestly, I think that's his biggest fear - just that I'm going to get pregnant, our families (his especially) will disapprove and possibly shun us and that I won't have his health insurance. So, I think that has contributed to stress and a huge fear of having intercourse - so he's just substituted other things (...oral, oral, oral) instead. He was talking more about this last night. I told him I'm not going to recognize that excuse anymore. I am sympathetic to an extent, but I am not going to move in with him and get engaged with our sex life as it is now with the blind hope that it's going to improve when we get married. And since I mentioned the weight thing - really I haven't gained much since we started dating. Maybe 10 or 15 pounds? But I hold my weight well and it doesn't really show. And he's gained about the same amount. I'd still jump his bones just as much even now that he is a little overweight! But at least doing this has returned a sense of control to our love life. It was entirely dominated by him before, and I was just at his mercy saying, "Ok, merciful master, can I get some now plz?" Now it's more like, "You dare to sleep with my fantastically sexy self? Baha! How you amuse me. Very well then, mortal." We'll see if anything else changes. He's expressed interest in dumping some of his extracurriculars or reducing his involvement in them so that we have more one-on-one time together.
Author Kelemort Posted April 5, 2011 Author Posted April 5, 2011 Well, improvements have been happening. I'm little more than halfway through my current pack of birth control and we've slept together 4 times...so what...averages out to roughly every 3 - 4 days? He's initiated every time, too. And didn't get ANGRY when I pressed the issue after he initiated. Took more than a year, but maybe we're finally getting somewhere.
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