loach Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Hi all, Like many people here, I unfortunately came across this site at a rough time in my relationship. I've been lurking for a while but would finally like to hear some opinions from the more experienced members here. I'll start with a brief summary of my situation. I've been married to my wife for about 3 and a 1/2 years and we've been together for over 10. We met in college when we were both around 18 and this has been the only serious relationship either of us has ever been in. I had thought our relationship was going pretty well until about 2 months ago, when my wife told me she's been having an affair. I was devastated, hurt and angry for a while but have mostly worked through a lot of those issues. I've come to understand the severe communication problems and some of the other issues that led to this happening and believe that they're surmountable. I still love my wife dearly and have forgiven her and would like to move on and rebuild our relationship. Unfortunately, things haven't really been progressing as we'd hoped, and I'd like to hear some of your thoughts regarding what expectation are reasonable or unreasonable in our situation. When she first told me about the affair in January (it was mostly emotional but also briefly physical) she did so because she was committed to our relationship and wanted to fix things. As time has progressed, she has become less sure of that. She admits that she still loves the other guy and no longer feels the love that she used to for me. She is in business school and the guy is in all of her classes so she continues to see him and speak to him reasonably frequently. She knows that I don't want her to and certainly spends far less time with him than she used to but doesn't seen to be capable of ending contact entirely. My wife and I have been spending a lot more time together and we do really enjoy each others' company. We both care about each other and she insists that I'm the best person she's ever known and that I'm a great guy to be married to. There are no specific problems that she can point to or things that she'd like to change. But, despite that, she can't bring herself to be in love with me. This is very upsetting to her (and to me). Another major issue for her is that she's no longer comfortable with me in the "bedroom", which is a problem we've never had before. She still objectively recognizes that I'm an attractive person and insists that I'm great in bed, but doesn't seem to be sexually attracted to me. At the same time, she's very distressed about the fact that she's not treating me like she feels I deserve to be treated. So, in summary, the situation isn't great. I still love her and am trying my best to be supportive. The day to day situation really isn't that bad (for the most part we're still pretty happy when we're together) and I'm willing to tolerate it for a while if it's just a phase that will eventually pass. But at the same time we both agree that we ultimately want more from our relationship and we're not willing to settle for this situation in the long run. I guess I'm trying to figure out if what we're experiencing is normal in the aftermath of an affair and if things are eventually going to get better. I feel like we still care about each other, enjoy being with each other and are trying to spend time with each other and make each other happy. Is that enough to rekindle my wife's love over time? Or are we just delaying the inevitable by futilely trying to save something that's gone and can never come back?
imagine Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 There is no point in rekindling the relationship until your wife leaves the school. Expose both of them immediately to every one that can make a difference. Your watchword is that you are trying to save your marriage. And snoop. There has to be a consequence for the infidelity. The fact that she has a conscience is good news for you. She will hate the exposure and promise divorce. Few actually do! Much later she will realize that your were fighting for her. Leaving her with OM is enabling the romance. Affairs are always exciting and romantic. They are more likely to break up the relationship when it becomes legitimate.
jstarfire2 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 If she wants it too. Give her time and space. I don't see how her feelings for him will reside if they see each other all the time. I had an affair and broke it off. It was hard because I too thought I was in love with the OM. I know seeing him everyday it would've been very hard to break it off. Sounds to me she hasn't stop seeing him or sleeping with him...especially if she can't sleep with you. However, don't start accussing her of still seeing him unless you have proof. There's also a good book called "After the Affair". You two obviously need to work on the marriage. There was a reason she strayed. You both need to find out why. I wish you luck!
Soxfaninfl Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 You both need to see a counselor. You also need to see one on your own. Usually affairs happen because one person is not getting something from the relationship. Most of the time it is not enough attention.
Steadfast Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Love coming back isn't the issue here friend. That is likely the last thing to occur if you fully reconcile with your wife. Regardless of what anyone says, love is a decision, not an emotion. 'Love' that's all wrapped up in feelings; sexual desire, personal stimulation, ego boosting or superficial understanding isn't real, it's imitation. And it doesn't last. The biggest reason lies in a deep understanding between your wife and her lover. He knows she'll cheat on her husband and deep down resents her for it. She knows he's a kitty sniffer who sleeps with married women. I repeat: deep down, they both resent each other. They should. He'll do it again, and most likely so will she, as she validates her reasons. You've experienced this already. At first, the shock of her actions scared her back towards her marriage, but in time her reasoning of it (and, unfortunately, your reaction...or lack of a proper one) is causing her to drift ever farther away. Until she says "I love you, I'm sorry and I'll do whatever it takes to save our marriage" you have nothing. She must understand that her attraction for you has lessened because it has grown for someone else. She must embrace that her commitment to you outweighs any feelings, desires or emotions for anyone but you. Even 'love'. Until she does, at best you'll have a hollow marriage filled with mistrust and no respect. Lovingly and respectfully reject anything but a full on commitment to restore your marriage relationship. If that means quitting schools, jobs, losing homes or whatever, then that's what it means. Your marriage should be the BEDROCK in your life. Not jobs, houses or feelings. Reject this from her. If she waivers, leave. If she really loves you she'll be back. Her biggest worry then should be you still desire to be with her. It should be.
optimistgirl Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I'm sorry to say, but sometimes the emotional affairs are worse than physical ones. If your marriage has any chance of surviving, she is going to have to cut ALL contact with this guy. With him still lurking around, there is no way that you have a fair shot at trying to save your marriage, if that's what you want to do. Somewhere along the way, you two probably became disconnected which opened up the door for this new guy. She has to decide what is more important to her...her marriage to you or this other guy. If she can't break it off with him, then you have your answer. See if she will agree to counseling, as a last resort. It can do wonders when two people are willing to put in the effort.
Eddie Edirol Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 You have to put your foot down to tell her to stop talking to this guy. But she might be a rebel and that might make her talk to him more. So in that case you have to separate from her. Send her to live someplace else. The only way she will appreciate you again is if she cant have you or be near you. Right now she says she isnt sleeping with him, but she must be. So you are her safety net just in case he doesnt work out. You cant show her that you will be there if she falls, you have to make her think she will lose you forever if she doesnt kill this affair. No one acts until there is a crisis. So you have to pull back, slow down the hangout times with her, eventually tell her to move out, cut off all contact until she stops the affair. This could backfire though, she could move somewhere and start seeing this guy more, but then you will know you didnt have a chance anyway. You have to make her earn your affection again, because you took her for granted, and she broke away. You will have to put your foot down, and put her in panic mode to make a decision. Let her think you are moving on. Then she will have to decide to dissolve a marriage or continue an affair. You have to do this to make her think you are a challenge again, and if she does it, you cant just let her back in your arms again, you have to let her work for it. You cant nice her into wanting you again, it doesnt work like that. You have to let her go to see if she will come back. She likely wont, not 100% anyways, thats the way it works with attraction in women. if you are there with her all of the time, she doesnt get a chance to miss you. You have to make her miss you. Move her out, no contact. Prepare for her not to come back.
Author loach Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Thanks for your responses so far. I should clarify a few points based on your comments: We started going to couples counseling right after she told me about the affair. It helped to get us talking about the issues but wasn't really very useful beyond that. I felt like the counselor didn't really provide any useful suggestions or advice. My wife also went to 6 sessions of individual counseling which again were only somewhat helpful. That being said, I think we've been communicating very well recently and I think I have a pretty good idea of why the affair happened. It really came down to a huge problem of communication. I wasn't providing enough attention and she wasn't communicating any dissatisfaction but she was completely unsure of whether I loved her or how I felt about her. She started spending a lot of time with this other guy but despite all the warning signs I was so insistent on allowing us to have our independence and trusting her that I didn't do anything about it, and a few months later things had gone too far. Since discussing these things we've tackled some of the major problems - she knows exactly how I feel about her and I've done my best to convince her that I can meet the needs she felt weren't getting met. Had these things not changed I'm certain that she would have left already, but it hasn't been enough to completely repair the situation. I know that she's still speaking with the other guy (she's told me so) but I'm absolutely positive that she's not sleeping with him (or engaging in any physical intimacy). We've promised to be completely honest with each other and I think we've been doing a pretty good job. She says that she's tried ending contact with him on a few occasions but he's very persistent and ultimately she ends up speaking to him again. She's incredibly upset that she can't end things but says that she's just not strong enough. Her inability to deal with this is making her feel like a failure and she's upset that she's not able to meet my expectations. She's considered separation because she's tired of hurting me and thinks that I'm putting too much confidence in her ability to pull through this. I don't think she's playing games - she's clearly confused and overwhelmed by the situation and I think she's being sincere about how she feels. I wish there was something I could do to help her. I've thought about separating but based on our circumstances it makes a lot more sense for me to be the one to move out and find my own place and that's a decision that I'm having a very hard time making committing to right now. She'll be done with school in just over a month and I'm wondering if it makes sense just to stay together for the next month and see how things go after that. Edited March 31, 2011 by loach
worldgonewrong Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Pardon me, but I think she's full of sh*t. "Gosh, I don't know how you put up with me! I'm so confused! I'm just too weak and..." bla bla blah. She has the *cojones* to get involved in an affair, so she's not a shrinking violet. Don't accomodate this nonsense.
orangelady Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks for your responses so far. I should clarify a few points based on your comments: We started going to couples counseling right after she told me about the affair. It helped to get us talking about the issues but wasn't really very useful beyond that. I felt like the counselor didn't really provide any useful suggestions or advice. My wife also went to 6 sessions of individual counseling which again were only somewhat helpful. That being said, I think we've been communicating very well recently and I think I have a pretty good idea of why the affair happened. It really came down to a huge problem of communication. I wasn't providing enough attention and she wasn't communicating any dissatisfaction but she was completely unsure of whether I loved her or how I felt about her. She started spending a lot of time with this other guy but despite all the warning signs I was so insistent on allowing us to have our independence and trusting her that I didn't do anything about it, and a few months later things had gone too far. Since discussing these things we've tackled some of the major problems - she knows exactly how I feel about her and I've done my best to convince her that I can meet the needs she felt weren't getting met. Had these things not changed I'm certain that she would have left already, but it hasn't been enough to completely repair the situation. I know that she's still speaking with the other guy (she's told me so) but I'm absolutely positive that she's not sleeping with him (or engaging in any physical intimacy). We've promised to be completely honest with each other and I think we've been doing a pretty good job. She says that she's tried ending contact with him on a few occasions but he's very persistent and ultimately she ends up speaking to him again. She's incredibly upset that she can't end things but says that she's just not strong enough. Her inability to deal with this is making her feel like a failure and she's upset that she's not able to meet my expectations. She's considered separation because she's tired of hurting me and thinks that I'm putting too much confidence in her ability to pull through this. I don't think she's playing games - she's clearly confused and overwhelmed by the situation and I think she's being sincere about how she feels. I wish there was something I could do to help her. I've thought about separating but based on our circumstances it makes a lot more sense for me to be the one to move out and find my own place and that's a decision that I'm having a very hard time making committing to right now. She'll be done with school in just over a month and I'm wondering if it makes sense just to stay together for the next month and see how things go after that. I think you are too nice, I think you should have some self respect for yourself. If my spouse tells me he is not in love with me, I'd be more than hurt but I'm not going to try to fix it no matter how I think I love him. I'd step back and continue to live my life as best as I can. To be honest, I have a lady friend on Facebook who married her high school sweetheart or something like that. She is 30 now and she tells me she thinks her husband is GREAT and that is a wonderful husband and father but she's just not 'in love' with him. She says "We were 18." Well I hear that a LOT from married ladies. She tells me now she's sorta exchanging love emails with this other guy from her high school. I don't think she really loves her husband right but she is just sticking through it it because of the children. It's sad...I'm not sure I know what to say. All the best. I just think you deserve someone who loves you. But if you can fix it, all the better.
2.50 a gallon Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Imagine has it right, you have zero chance of coming back as long as she is still in contact with the OM. Either he or she has to drop out of school. He is a low life scum, a predator making moves on a married woman. Find a way to let him know that hell is coming his way. Let him know that by exposing his relationship with a married woman will show that he is dishonest and unreliable and can limit his future careet in business. Figure out a way to ruin his career, It is not revenge, as you are trying to save your marriage and your family. This is war.
Steadfast Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I don't think she's playing games - she's clearly confused and overwhelmed by the situation and I think she's being sincere about how she feels. I wish there was something I could do to help her. There is. Let her go. Women are confused when none of their choices thrill them, and that's her problem. There's bits of good and bad in both you and the OM, so for now she wants both until she decides on one. And you're helping. Nice of you, but not really. Look, if you leave she very well may cry, wail, or even beg because she's scared. She should be! She's considering trading in a faithful husband for a cheater, and possibly facing the consequences of her actions alone. It is much easier for her to have you handy...using your love and care to her advantage. She has you convinced she's too weak to be faithful? She's being honest! Listen to her. Is that what you want in a wife? Look friend, we all have to make our own decisions then live with them. My point (and others it seems) is that doesn't sound like much of a life. Maybe you're the first choice, maybe the second? Maybe she'll stay out of obligation, or guilt, or figure she can live with that and leave. What wrong with this arrangement? She's cheating and confused yet the decisions regarding your relationship and marriage are hers. And you're waiting. Time to step back and take a look at the big picture. It isn't pretty-
Ballerfamily Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Men. We are so co-dependent its almost pathetic. We can't believe are spouses can stray. Most men can't comprehend and wrap their heads around this. It took me 18 yrs. What is wrong with us. Most women would say, make your decision now, or else. We pine, and stumble around like little needy babies... Your scared she will stay away if you or her leave. Thats destiny my man. It is what it is. If you go after her, you will drive her to him. Let her go. If she wants you, she will be back pretty quickly. If not, start the process of healing. I promise you it will be hell, but then eventually that sun shines on a dogs a---- again. It really does. And you will be so relieved if she stayed away and you acted with some self-respect and dignity. If she comes back, it has to be full disclosure and her working it to exhaustion. You've got the easy job my friend. Don't be a whipped puppy like most of us men. Love? Is love something that comes and goes with the evening tide? Don't listen to her words. Put no stock in them whatsoever. She know's not what she does. She is in mass confusion. Let her suffer on her own. Don't make it easy on her. The last thing she wants is your utmost attention and you around. BE GONE. Her affair continues. Either EA or PA. Who know's? She is trickle truthing you and gas lighting. She iS furthur gone the more you are around. She needs to fix what is broken. Understand that. BE GONE. There are basically 3 kinds of cheaters. Ones that are either caught or reveal it themselves, and then totally come crawling back and are an open book. Or like your's, comes back(she is aghast at what she has done, and tries to alleviate your pain a little at a time, do damage control,etc) but then starts finding ways to explain it away and the more she is with you, becomes more distant and makes more and more excuses.....and then the ones that are waw/wah, just gone and exiting in their limelight and don't care. Your wifes affair, you must be gone to get to the truth quickly. Otherwise, it may continue for a period of time, and then you will do something stupid eventually out of anger and spite. Edited April 1, 2011 by Ballerfamily
What_Next Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 You've been given some GREAT advice here. SHE had an affair, period. There is no denying this fact. There has to be consequences for that action SHE took. ZERO (and I mean ZERO) contact with her OM. She has to be 100% transparent, you have complete and all access to all cell records, emails accounts etc etc. There is no room for debate there. By being the "nice guy" you are doing yourself a dis-service. Now I'm NOT saying become a total *********, but if this marriage is going to work it'll take 2 committed people. The 2 of you, 110%, no less. If she isn't willing to do this, then move on. You are enabling her behavior.
Author loach Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Thank you all for your comments. It's difficult to hear but you're totally right. I know it's going to be hard but I'm strengthening my resolve to leave.
Author loach Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Thank you all for your comments. It's difficult to hear but you're totally right. She has you convinced she's too weak to be faithful? She's being honest! Listen to her. Steadfast - you are dead on with this comment. I realize that she's actually been being totally honest with me about how she feels. I'm the one who couldn't bring myself to believe that she really is this weak or really didn't love me enough to commit to fixing our marriage. I've been projecting my own strength and feelings onto her and convincing myself that she'll behave as I would like to imagine that I would in her situation even though everything she's said has clearly stated that this is not the case. It's hard to accept that you could be so wrong about someone that you thought you knew so well. I know it's going to be hard but I'm strengthening my resolve to leave. Thank you again for your support.
Steadfast Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 I'm the one who couldn't bring myself to believe that she really is this weak or really didn't love me enough to commit to fixing our marriage. I've been projecting my own strength and feelings onto her and convincing myself that she'll behave as I would like to imagine that I would in her situation even though everything she's said has clearly stated that this is not the case. It's hard to accept that you could be so wrong about someone that you thought you knew so well. This is the hardest lesson of all friend. It's called acceptance and it's a bitter pill to swallow. However, once it's down and you realize what's really going on, you decision making process becomes much easier. That is, you know the score. It hurts, but you're clearing. That's a good thing...for both of you. And, instead of leaving her, let her know in no uncertain terms that you're leaving the situation behind; not her. This is a good time to tell her -maybe the last time- that you love her. But, it takes two to make a successful marriage. And if she won't attempt to make this painful betrayal leave your marriage, then you have no choice but to leave it. Hang in. Keep posting.
Author loach Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 Well, I moved out last night. As painful as it was, it felt like I was doing the right thing. For now it's only a temporary move - I just grabbed enough stuff to get me through the next few weeks and moved in with a friend. We've agreed to reassess the situation in a few weeks. My wife cried and was upset about me leaving but she also said she was really grateful that I was actually listening to her and giving her a little space to work things out for herself. The OM seems to be viewing this a victory on his part and is getting progressively more pushy and persistent in trying to interact with my wife despite her asking him to leave her alone and give her some time to think and it seems to be making her really angry. Anyways, I've done what I can do at this point. It's now up to her to pull herself out of this trainwreck of a situation that she allowed herself to get into.
Jane Deaux Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Sounds to me like she wants YOU to be the one to leave. To be the one to say you are leaving. This way, she doesn't have to hurt you by saying "Yes, I'm done. I love you but I'm not in love with you and this marriage is essentially over". So she pushes and pushes to give you enough reasons to leave her. She is confused (a big change in our lives do that to us) and she prob will hurt when you leave and she KNOWS this, but I fear that she is only going to hurt over losing a friend, and I bet she knows that too. She says the things she says to give you a way out because she wants you out. "You should leave..." = You should leave.
Chi townD Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Dude! What are you doing! You didn't do anything wrong! You shouldn't be the one to move out! Period. She loves the fact that you are out of there because she can continue her affair without you looking over her shoulder! It wouldn't surprise me if he's in your house right now! Giving her space? Give me a break! You need to move back into YOUR house! Don't tell her that your coming back, just move back in. If she has a problem with it, then SHE can move her confused and weak butt out! Okay, crunch time! SHe has to make the decision. Either you or him. If she can't make the decision. Then make it for her. You chose you! Then, see a lawyer and see what your options are. If she choses you. Then she has to give you all her passwords, phone passwords. No contact with that other guy, drop the classes she's in or go to a different college or University. Right now, don't believe a word she's telling you. When a cheater opens their mouths, their lying.
BlindRage Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Right now, don't believe a word she's telling you. When a cheater opens their mouths, they're lying. Quoting the wisdom.
Author loach Posted April 7, 2011 Author Posted April 7, 2011 I can appreciate your point but humbly disagree. As I've mentioned before, I really believe that my wife has been honest with me since revealing her affair. Nothing has happened in the past two months to make me doubt that. She asked for some space to be alone for a little while and I'm taking the request at face value. If she chooses to use this time to pursue her relationship with the OM that's fine - it'll be a clear indication that there's no hope for our relationship and will make it easier for me to accept that and move on with my life. The reason I moved out rather than asking her to was mostly for practical reasons. She doesn't have any friends in the area who she could stay with whereas I do. If I kicked her out of the house the only place she could really go would be to the OM, which she told me she didn't want to do. Plus, when our lease ends in a month or so she's going to be leaving the state to find a job elsewhere, whereas I could potentially keep working at my current job so it makes more sense for me to start looking for other places to live in the area. I don't view my moving out to be a defeat. I consider it to be me showing her (and myself) that I care enough to listen to her, and that I also have the resolve to leave her if that's what the situation calls for. I moved out for myself as much as for her. The OM in this situation is a demanding, pushy and extremely self-centered person. These are all traits that I abhor and I am trying my best to ensure that they do not apply to me. This affair has made me say and do some things things I regret and I am trying to return to being the person that I really am. A guiding principle in my life is to think of others and minimize the suffering of those around me. At the end of the day, regardless of what happens to our marriage, I want to be able to look myself in the mirror and believe that I was true to myself and did not act selfishly.
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