Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 This is probably not the most well-thought-out post bc my kid woke me up super-early and I'm really tired, but...I've read a few threads here recently from women in EA that were really tearing them up! My experience in my EA has been so different that I didn't really know what to say. I believe that my EA is real and will become a real relationship. I know that some people here say everyone thinks theirs is different, but I didn't see a lot of faith from the women in those EAs, I saw a lot of confusion and pain. I hope they don't mind me mentioning them in this thread! Anyway, some affairs are obviously real, sometimes they mean a lot and even turn into different marriages. When do you know which is which? When is it okay to believe in your MM? I know a lot of people will say, NEVER
BB07 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 This is probably not the most well-thought-out post bc my kid woke me up super-early and I'm really tired, but...I've read a few threads here recently from women in EA that were really tearing them up! My experience in my EA has been so different that I didn't really know what to say. I believe that my EA is real and will become a real relationship. I know that some people here say everyone thinks theirs is different, but I didn't see a lot of faith from the women in those EAs, I saw a lot of confusion and pain. I hope they don't mind me mentioning them in this thread! Anyway, some affairs are obviously real, sometimes they mean a lot and even turn into different marriages. When do you know which is which? When is it okay to believe in your MM? I know a lot of people will say, NEVER For the sake of clarification, what do you think constitutes a "real relationship"? Does this mean he stays married but the EA turns into a PA? Or does this mean that he leaves the marriage and you have an open relationship with mm? Re: Also I'm a little confused as to what you think the difference is in a real affair vs a not real affair, please explain?
Silly_Girl Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 This is probably not the most well-thought-out post bc my kid woke me up super-early and I'm really tired, but...I've read a few threads here recently from women in EA that were really tearing them up! My experience in my EA has been so different that I didn't really know what to say. I believe that my EA is real and will become a real relationship. I know that some people here say everyone thinks theirs is different, but I didn't see a lot of faith from the women in those EAs, I saw a lot of confusion and pain. I hope they don't mind me mentioning them in this thread! Anyway, some affairs are obviously real, sometimes they mean a lot and even turn into different marriages. When do you know which is which? When is it okay to believe in your MM? I know a lot of people will say, NEVER When you say 'real', do you mean 'meaningful' as opposed to a get-your-leg-over type arrangement? Also, you seem to associate 'real' affair with it turning in to an exclusive relationship in the future. But some people have meaningful, 'real' affairs without it turning exclusive in the future. The other thing to consider is that SOME posts you read may well not ooze with faith and determination, because perhaps they decided they no longer wanted what that relationship offered them, and were moving on or maybe exhibiting frustration. I had lots of faith in my MM, lots and lots. I'm not good at being cynical where love is concerned... There were times when my loved ones thought I was demonstrating too much faith. Another aspect to consider...
TigerCub Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 This is probably not the most well-thought-out post bc my kid woke me up super-early and I'm really tired, but...I've read a few threads here recently from women in EA that were really tearing them up! My experience in my EA has been so different that I didn't really know what to say. I believe that my EA is real and will become a real relationship. I know that some people here say everyone thinks theirs is different, but I didn't see a lot of faith from the women in those EAs, I saw a lot of confusion and pain. I hope they don't mind me mentioning them in this thread! Anyway, some affairs are obviously real, sometimes they mean a lot and even turn into different marriages. When do you know which is which? When is it okay to believe in your MM? I know a lot of people will say, NEVER I think it would depend on the level of honesty between the MM and the OW. I think that if I didn't have all these nagging doubts about MM's stories and his timeline with his long time GF (mother of his children) - I probably would have held out longer (despite the enormous amount of guilt I felt), but its because I didn't really trust him completely near the end that I began to see more and more of the lies, and all that made all the suffering I went through (in the name of love) so pointless. The A was suffocating at times, and it was so painful not to have him - so all those struggles seemed so pointless when I'm waiting and fighting for a man that isn't even truthful with me - that I wouldn't be able to trust anyways. When I had no reason to doubt him in the beginning, yeah I thought we loved each other so much, and that we may even have a chance down the road. But his timeline with the GF, the break up, the getting back together, etc... didn't make a whole lot of sense, and then months after I knew him, he confesses that he actually has a 2nd child with her - a baby girl under1 (that he failed to mention to me at all before) - I just couldn't trust him. So yeah, sorry, I rambled too much, but I think that if there is a lot of trust/transparency with an MM then maybe they aren't lying about ending their R with their SO, and maybe it is a "different" A story that might lead to a happy ending. just my $0.02
BB07 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I think Tiger and Silly have illustrated opposite ends of the spectrum. Tiger.........speaks of many, many lies and because of those lies there is an inability to trust. Silly does not speak of lies and her guy has illustrated that he does what he says he will. (Actions)
Confused4Now Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I think Tiger and Silly have illustrated opposite ends of the spectrum. Tiger.........speaks of many, many lies and because of those lies there is an inability to trust. Silly does not speak of lies and her guy has illustrated that he does what he says he will. (Actions)And that is what I was going to say....at the end of the day it's about the ACTIONS which he or she shows. I do get the lies cause the whole dynamics of A's. The one's I've seen who do make it are the ones who do what they say and mean what they do. It also helps if they were planning on exiting anyway like me.
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Or does this mean that he leaves the marriage and you have an open relationship with mm? This one. I'm not trying to say some affairs are imaginary and others are real, and I didn't mean that people can't have feelings involved in all kinds of affairs. I was talking about some turning into exclusive relationships in their own right. "Real" affairs, I meant ones where feelings are really involved on BOTH sides, whether they turn into an exclusive relationship later or not. So many people on here say the MM never has real feelings for the OW, or he is just manipulating her to get laid or get an ego fix. I meant "real" affairs are when there is real love. Like I said, I was super tired this morning.
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 When you say 'real', do you mean 'meaningful' as opposed to a get-your-leg-over type arrangement? Yes! Meaningful would have been a better word Also, you seem to associate 'real' affair with it turning in to an exclusive relationship in the future. But some people have meaningful, 'real' affairs without it turning exclusive in the future. That's true. But that's what I want for mine. The other thing to consider is that SOME posts you read may well not ooze with faith and determination, because perhaps they decided they no longer wanted what that relationship offered them, and were moving on or maybe exhibiting frustration. I had lots of faith in my MM, lots and lots. I'm not good at being cynical where love is concerned... There were times when my loved ones thought I was demonstrating too much faith. Another aspect to consider... I have a lot of faith in mine, too! I wonder how much of it is circumstances, though, because I have known him for so long, since before he was married. I put some responses in bold up above.
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I think it would depend on the level of honesty between the MM and the OW. I think that if I didn't have all these nagging doubts about MM's stories and his timeline with his long time GF (mother of his children) - I probably would have held out longer (despite the enormous amount of guilt I felt), but its because I didn't really trust him completely near the end that I began to see more and more of the lies, and all that made all the suffering I went through (in the name of love) so pointless. The A was suffocating at times, and it was so painful not to have him - so all those struggles seemed so pointless when I'm waiting and fighting for a man that isn't even truthful with me - that I wouldn't be able to trust anyways. When I had no reason to doubt him in the beginning, yeah I thought we loved each other so much, and that we may even have a chance down the road. But his timeline with the GF, the break up, the getting back together, etc... didn't make a whole lot of sense, and then months after I knew him, he confesses that he actually has a 2nd child with her - a baby girl under1 (that he failed to mention to me at all before) - I just couldn't trust him. So yeah, sorry, I rambled too much, but I think that if there is a lot of trust/transparency with an MM then maybe they aren't lying about ending their R with their SO, and maybe it is a "different" A story that might lead to a happy ending. just my $0.02 Wow! I can't believe he just "didn't mention" a BABY! I can see why you can't trust that guy! I think I agree with everything you said about transparency and happy endings
Spark1111 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Then SP, why don't you and he come up with a meaningful timeline? One, that both of you agree attains the goal of being together exclusively. Have you had this conversation with him? Told him what you want? And both discussed how to get there? Because I believe it is important in ANY relationship to discuss not only a future together but concrete steps in a realistic timeline to get there.
BB07 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 This one. I'm not trying to say some affairs are imaginary and others are real, and I didn't mean that people can't have feelings involved in all kinds of affairs. I was talking about some turning into exclusive relationships in their own right. "Real" affairs, I meant ones where feelings are really involved on BOTH sides, whether they turn into an exclusive relationship later or not. So many people on here say the MM never has real feelings for the OW, or he is just manipulating her to get laid or get an ego fix. I meant "real" affairs are when there is real love. Like I said, I was super tired this morning. I think the majority of affairs that we read about here at LS do involve real feelings and yes sometimes love.........BUT love is no indicator that everything will work for the OW/OM. In our childlike belief in fairy tales and romance we like and want to believe that love will win, but love is not the be all/end all. I would say the biggest majority of marriages start out with both people being in LOVE but look at the divorce rate and the level of unhappiness that people have with marriage. The point I'm trying to make is that love.........does not save nor keep a marriage so why should we expect that love will see us through in a affair situation. Seems to me the odds go way down with the complications of an affair and an affair is a hotbed of complications and the cost can be extremely high in financial ways, family interactions and respect from loved ones and the betrayal that you heep on someone can be devastating and that is just touching the surface. 4 cents.....worth it, well maybe. lol
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Then SP, why don't you and he come up with a meaningful timeline? One, that both of you agree attains the goal of being together exclusively. Have you had this conversation with him? Told him what you want? And both discussed how to get there? Because I believe it is important in ANY relationship to discuss not only a future together but concrete steps in a realistic timeline to get there. We have sort of half-talked about these issues? He has a hard time with saying straight out that he loves me, or that he is leaving to be with me, when he is still married to someone else. He is the kind of guy who tries to clean one house before he moves on to the next. I left somebody for him just a few weeks ago. Not just FOR him, the relationship was coming to a natural end anyway, but I sped it up bc he thought it was bad for me and he didn't like me being in that relationship. When I told him I was going to end things with that man, he told me that he was going to leave his wife when she graduates, which is soon. Well, what he really means is after she gets a job, bc he said it would not be fair to take apart her world when she is looking for work too. I agree with him, that would be super stressful! There is never a GOOD time, but he is trying to be as nice as he can be. It's one of the things that I have loved about him for so long He was asking me to wait for him, but mostly with his eyes, if that makes sense.
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 BB07 I totally know that love doesn't always conquer all! Sad, but true!
siuys Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Here are two real life examples: my sister is seeing a separated man who loves her and his ACTIONS and CONSISTENCY shows me that he is in it for real. He won't be divorced till next year when his kid is 18. But EVERYTHING that he DOES and DID and SAID has been consistent and loving towards my sister. They are in a REAL relationship. Second example: a friend recently met a separated MM (2 years, with a gf). He met my friend, they got on like a house on fire. Shortly, he finished the R with the gf (short term, a few months) and last week he filed for D and cc a copy to my friend who didn't even ask for it. Again, ACTIONS show you his true intention. All the I love yous, I miss yous etc don't mean anything if not backed up by actions. They don't necessarily mean he will leave, or wants to be with you. I think most As don't work out because the people involved are still in their Ms. They have not finished their mess before starting another one. They are not truly emotionally available, and oftentimes, they are in an A for other reasons...
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I get what you're saying. In my case my MM is not ready to separate or file for anything until his W graduates and gets a job with her nursing degree, he thinks that is more fair to her and I think he is right. So he has no real actions he can prove anything with right now. He has proven a lot to me with his actions over a lot of years though. He has always been there for me and my child and family.
siuys Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I get what you're saying. In my case my MM is not ready to separate or file for anything until his W graduates and gets a job with her nursing degree, he thinks that is more fair to her and I think he is right. So he has no real actions he can prove anything with right now. He has proven a lot to me with his actions over a lot of years though. He has always been there for me and my child and family. i hope for you you get what you want. every situation is different, and we all like to think our situation is unique. well, it is. but often it is not. at the end of the day, he's still there, and it's only talk. it's easy to talk. him being there for you with his wife is not the same as him being there for you alone. stay cautiously optimistic. stay firmly grounded in reality. all the best.
greengoddess Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 We have sort of half-talked about these issues? He has a hard time with saying straight out that he loves me, or that he is leaving to be with me, when he is still married to someone else. He is the kind of guy who tries to clean one house before he moves on to the next. I left somebody for him just a few weeks ago. Not just FOR him, the relationship was coming to a natural end anyway, but I sped it up bc he thought it was bad for me and he didn't like me being in that relationship. When I told him I was going to end things with that man, he told me that he was going to leave his wife when she graduates, which is soon. Well, what he really means is after she gets a job, bc he said it would not be fair to take apart her world when she is looking for work too. I agree with him, that would be super stressful! There is never a GOOD time, but he is trying to be as nice as he can be. It's one of the things that I have loved about him for so long He was asking me to wait for him, but mostly with his eyes, if that makes sense. then the next excuse will be I can't leave now she is pregnant. After the baby is born, then I can't leave my child we are so attached. Blah blah blah. You knew him before he was married. Why did he marry her then?
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Oh, my first real naysayer! Welcome Not everything follows the same old scripts, though! He married her because his best friend had just died...my brother. We were both pretty young and grieving and we both did some crazy things. I ended up having my beautiful child even though I was too young and still in school. He dropped out of college and went away and came back married to somebody he barely knew (he went back to college the next year). He told me only a few months after he came back that it was a mistake. They have been married for five years now because he believed in trying to make it work and then he was putting her through school to do the right thing. Back then he looked at me just as his best friends little sister, but we have been friends for a very long time.
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 I had a crush on him back when he first became friends with my brother, BTW. I have always known what a great guy he really is . But I was younger and he was dating college girls, and I moved on the way you do, you know. We were just friends, and then everything went off track when my brother died. But I always had a little "thing" for him buried down deep that I thought would never come to anything.
Carrot2000 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 They have been married for five years now because he believed in trying to make it work and then he was putting her through school to do the right thing. I can dig it. Perhaps instead of blindsiding her, though, he should let her know of his unhappiness so they can work on an exit strategy that works for both of them. Since they've been married for five years and barely knew each other, she may very well agree with him that the marriage was a mistake and might be relieved at getting out of it. I think it would be better to tell her now rather than when she's in a hospital dealing with life or death situations. The last thing I'd want is a nurse who is distracted while caring for me.
BB07 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 You do realize that there is NEVER going to be a good time don't you Pink? If she loves him and doesn't believe anything is wrong and she wants her marriage, she will be absolutely devastated and she won't walk away willingly. And you do realize that some men can't ever find the balls to come out and tell, right?
siuys Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 You do realize that there is NEVER going to be a good time don't you Pink? If she loves him and doesn't believe anything is wrong and she wants her marriage, she will be absolutely devastated and she won't walk away willingly. And you do realize that some men can't ever find the balls to come out and tell, right? I agree with BB... like my counsellor said, there are too many boys disguised as men
Spark1111 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 We have sort of half-talked about these issues? He has a hard time with saying straight out that he loves me, or that he is leaving to be with me, when he is still married to someone else. He is the kind of guy who tries to clean one house before he moves on to the next. I left somebody for him just a few weeks ago. Not just FOR him, the relationship was coming to a natural end anyway, but I sped it up bc he thought it was bad for me and he didn't like me being in that relationship. When I told him I was going to end things with that man, he told me that he was going to leave his wife when she graduates, which is soon. Well, what he really means is after she gets a job, bc he said it would not be fair to take apart her world when she is looking for work too. I agree with him, that would be super stressful! There is never a GOOD time, but he is trying to be as nice as he can be. It's one of the things that I have loved about him for so long He was asking me to wait for him, but mostly with his eyes, if that makes sense. Okay, so she graduates soon. Within six months? And she will get a job as nurses are in fairly high demand, as I understand it. But I am not sure what half-talk means. Have you been clear with him that you want/expect a future with him? While he has admitted he intends to leave his wife, has he clearly stated he wants/intends a future with you? I can be patient if we share a common goal and take common steps to reach that goal. And these are one of many issues that are talked about in any relationship. Waiting for his wife to find a job where she can support herself is admirable. But YOU do want a expiration date on his loveless marriage, yes? You do expect an exclusive relationship with a man no longer committed, yes? Well then you both need to talk about your expectations here, and not just with your eyes. Because if your expectations are not the same as his, you could be setting yourself up for heartache down the road. So why NOT talk about it together and get a reasonable plan in effect?
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 BB, I already said I know there is never a good time. Right here. There is never a GOOD time, but he is trying to be as nice as he can be. Carrot, you have a pretty good point about her being distracted at work! It is hard to know what to do, there's a problem with every situation. If he tells her he wants out now, she struggles with final few weeks of school and maybe doesn't graduate. It's not really up to me, but I will mention it to him. He told me once when they were still newlyweds that it was a mistake to get married. Then I know they went into counseling for a while, that was a couple of years ago. He told me then that he believes people should try to make marriage work, if they can, but that he didn't know if that was the right thing, either. We used to talk about his situation more but since we started to have these feelings we haven't talked about it much. I think he doesn't feel right talking about her now and I respect that. I don't know if she really loves him now, what I think is that she used to love him but she knows things haven't been right for a long time. But maybe that's just what I want to think?
Author Shocking Pink Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Spark, we have never said all those things straight out, not yet. We both said that our friendship had...changed. When we are around each other, my heart almost beats right out of my chest, and I KNOW he feels it too, I know him! He looks at me very differently, he got angry about my last relationship, but we have never touched in an inapporpiate way and he has never made me any crazy empty promises. When I told him that I was ending my relationship, he looked so happy. And then he told me that he had decided to end his marriage, and he touched my hand, held it for a minute. That's all, except the part where my hand was on fire! She is graduating VERY soon. May. I won't have long to wait. And yes there are a lot of nursing jobs around here.
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