LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 How does one get higher self esteem, if he's treated as undesirable, though? I mean, when only family are telling me I'm good looking, and female friends feel sorry for me, that makes me believe I am ugly. I was diagnosed with Body Dismorphic Disorder, but...still. It can't all be in my head!
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Sure men like sex but it is really not that hard to get. A man can always hire a prostitute if he is that desperate or he can go to a bar and find somebody. It is not a major accomplishment to get laid. Getting a bunch of women to chase after you and desire you on the other hand is much more difficult. It is a boost to the ego and shows a man that he is desirable and of high status. Men want to be like him and women want a man that is desired by other women. Being able to pull out a book and call a woman up from a bunch of numbers makes a man the man amongst friends as is being seen with arm candy. It is not just about getting laid. I agree. Sex can be easily found, but to conquer someone's values is to live like our ancestors lived: true to ourselves. We all want to be wanted ,to be pursued, but to go from wanting to having it is like an open sky filled with golden clouds. It has nothing to do with the sex(although it is pleasurable), but the fact that you, are competing against the majority of the other men and you aren't coming undone. You've surprassed every other man who was rejected by her. In many senses you are being a true human being as everything that was achieved, all that we have today, was created and thought of, and designed by people who wanted to grow above the others. Wanted to surprass the averagity of life and of everyone around. The sexual expertise of the woman or her beauty don't necessarily add to the quality of the feelings one get when conquering what other men/or few men managed to conquer. Lets say that there's a very beautiful woman, but she slept with 100000 guys. I will enjoy the sex but I won't feel my design as a human male, fulfilled. Whereas some of my most pleasurable sexual activities were done with average/pretty women, but by belonging to the Church, having religious parents, they were as oblivious to the pleasures of carnal desire as I am to the ramblings of Obama. Better yet is to emerge yourself in their sexual blossoming without having to pay for it like many, many guys have(relationships, marriage, whatever) to. If you manage to make such a woman open up to yourself in such a grandious level, and IF you do it, without resorting to cheap tactics such as 'gaming', lying to her, or by using other nefarious methods: you become a god. You become an artist. An humanitarian. A selflshess being of pure desire, contradicting yourself and her upbringing and releasing her from the silly notions of purity and dedication to old fashioned values. It really does just seem to reinforce narcissistic tendencies. It only makes you realize how amazing life is and if you can make a large number of women happy about life and about yourself, it's your right -your right! - to break those chains and make her feel like a pure being, made of Venus and made of sexual explosion. Reminds me of a soap opera, foreign, I'm watching. The action takes place a few years after the fall of the fascist regime and the people are still living in their 'God' conditioning. A woman there, in her early 20's, attractive, is having sex with pretty much every man she finds attractive. Her grandmother pulled her to the side and told her that if she continues in that path she's never going to find a guy who gives her value. How well that grandmother exemplifies the stones of the ancients. A man can't value a woman because of her high number of sexual partners? I am not a 20-foot long bearded man from a cave. I'm an enlighted man, and I know that when I allow a woman to enjoy my body, I am breaking away one more inch of the facist regime(traditional society, if stil lintact).
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I doubt it can really be learned somedude. You really need either very good looks or confident, interesting personality with plenty of charisma. If you have both, you are golden. I aspired to be a female player when I went through the bitter stage. Not about sex at all, but about power of having many men pursuing me and me being completely emotionally detached. It actually worked, but most of those men only really wanted me for sex (not that I gave it to them). Confidence can be gained, and so can social skills... which is mostly what it takes. Though I think it must be really hard to do, because I've only seen one guy make that transition. Woggle's OP pretty much says why. Why would a man not want to be a player? I'd rather be winning than be a loser. I don't think jerking around emotionally vulnerable women around is "winning".
musemaj11 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And the sky is blue. Being a player is about self-esteem.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 How does one get higher self esteem, if he's treated as undesirable, though? I mean, when only family are telling me I'm good looking, and female friends feel sorry for me, that makes me believe I am ugly. I was diagnosed with Body Dismorphic Disorder, but...still. It can't all be in my head! Send me a pic, I'll be brutally honest. I have done this for two others.
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Yes it can be taught. You hardly need to be the cream of the crop to get girls. To get healthy girls with decent self-esteem you need to have that yourself. I think many players actually have low self-esteem, that's why they need the ego boost. Their happiness depends on having instead of connecting. That's like saying that a woman marrying young or a woman who has many sexual partners must have low self-esteem. Depends on the person. I've know a few womanizers(players are guys who resort to tactics) and the women they were with were attractive, intelligent, healthy(emotionally and physically) and just wanted to enjoy what they were looking for. Sex can be had, casual sex, without any manipulation, exchange of money, low self-esteem, or molestation in the woman's past. If the man takes care of himself, treats women well and respects himself and her, he can make both their interactions very fulfilling.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I agree. Sex can be easily found, but to conquer someone's values is to live like our ancestors lived: true to ourselves. We all want to be wanted ,to be pursued, but to go from wanting to having it is like an open sky filled with golden clouds. It has nothing to do with the sex(although it is pleasurable), but the fact that you, are competing against the majority of the other men and you aren't coming undone. You've surprassed every other man who was rejected by her. In many senses you are being a true human being as everything that was achieved, all that we have today, was created and thought of, and designed by people who wanted to grow above the others. Wanted to surprass the averagity of life and of everyone around. The sexual expertise of the woman or her beauty don't necessarily add to the quality of the feelings one get when conquering what other men/or few men managed to conquer. Lets say that there's a very beautiful woman, but she slept with 100000 guys. I will enjoy the sex but I won't feel my design as a human male, fulfilled. Whereas some of my most pleasurable sexual activities were done with average/pretty women, but by belonging to the Church, having religious parents, they were as oblivious to the pleasures of carnal desire as I am to the ramblings of Obama. Better yet is to emerge yourself in their sexual blossoming without having to pay for it like many, many guys have(relationships, marriage, whatever) to. If you manage to make such a woman open up to yourself in such a grandious level, and IF you do it, without resorting to cheap tactics such as 'gaming', lying to her, or by using other nefarious methods: you become a god. You become an artist. An humanitarian. A selflshess being of pure desire, contradicting yourself and her upbringing and releasing her from the silly notions of purity and dedication to old fashioned values. It really does just seem to reinforce narcissistic tendencies. It only makes you realize how amazing life is and if you can make a large number of women happy about life and about yourself, it's your right -your right! - to break those chains and make her feel like a pure being, made of Venus and made of sexual explosion. Reminds me of a soap opera, foreign, I'm watching. The action takes place a few years after the fall of the fascist regime and the people are still living in their 'God' conditioning. A woman there, in her early 20's, attractive, is having sex with pretty much every man she finds attractive. Her grandmother pulled her to the side and told her that if she continues in that path she's never going to find a guy who gives her value. How well that grandmother exemplifies the stones of the ancients. A man can't value a woman because of her high number of sexual partners? I am not a 20-foot long bearded man from a cave. I'm an enlighted man, and I know that when I allow a woman to enjoy my body, I am breaking away one more inch of the facist regime(traditional society, if stil lintact). So you think that by playing a bunch of women you are doing them a favor, fulfulling your life's purpose and breaking fascist values? Or did I read that wrong?
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I doubt it can really be learned somedude. You really need either very good looks or confident, interesting personality with plenty of charisma. If you have both, you are golden. I aspired to be a female player when I went through the bitter stage. Not about sex at all, but about power of having many men pursuing me and me being completely emotionally detached. It actually worked, but most of those men only really wanted me for sex (not that I gave it to them). Lets imagine that we are all living in Sweden. The average height for the guys is 6 feet tall and they are all chiseled like greek gods(the irony, heh?). The women are 5'7'' and can compete with a woman out of the Miss contest. How can there be womanizers in that Country when everyone is pretty much guaranteed to be attractive? How he talks. How he moves. How he looks at the woman. Looks and whatever help, a lot, when everyone is average, but womanizers hang out with their own so what seperates them from one another is their personality and how they go about making the woman feel. It actually worked, but most of those men only really wanted me for sex (not that I gave it to them Wasn't aware that one needs to have a man or a woman propose marriage for that guy/gal to be considered a player .
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 So you think that by playing a bunch of women you are doing them a favor, fulfulling your life's purpose and breaking fascist values? Or did I read that wrong? Playing? You mean, how I make them live the moment, create a memory that will last forever, give them a great time both as a lover, a man, and a human being interested in being with them at that moment, and how I do it without creating false expectations, lying to them, pretending to have feelings, and how I am honest and real, about what I want, 100% of the time? You are refering to players. I'm just a guy who is marvelled by beauty and creativity and by pleasure. Never a player, never an user, only a giver and a taker of what I want, and a reciever of what is given to me - always willingly.
somedude81 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I don't think jerking around emotionally vulnerable women around is "winning". Who said anything about jerking women around? I would just love to have women competing over me. I'm too nice of a guy to use and abuse women. And that's probably why I could never be a player.
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Who said anything about jerking women around? I would just love to have women competing over me. I'm too nice of a guy to use and abuse women. And that's probably why I could never be a player. I'm like that too... I go out of my way to avoid hurt feelings. I know I could be a player if I chose to be.... I've been accused of it many times by female friends. I don't think it takes anything special to be a player. I really think it's something you can teach yourself to be. I've seen some fat ugly guys with obnoxious personalities do it. I think your problem is that women intimidate you, and you can't believe one would ever like you. Be friends with some, just enjoy them as humans... it takes the mystery away.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Playing? You mean, how I make them live the moment, create a memory that will last forever, give them a great time both as a lover, a man, and a human being interested in being with them at that moment, and how I do it without creating false expectations, lying to them, pretending to have feelings, and how I am honest and real, about what I want, 100% of the time? No, I meant having meaningless sex with a woman that means more to you then it ever will to her as she forgets about your "phenomenal cosmic" powers when she falls in love with someone much more interested in her that she can relate to and have better sex with over time. But at least everyone is honest. You are refering to players. I'm just a guy who is marvelled by beauty and creativity and by pleasure. Never a player, never an user, only a giver and a taker of what I want, and a reciever of what is given to me - always willingly. Of course that is the way to do it. I completely fail to understand why any men figure that because they got laid one night with a girl that she will remember them fondly forever.
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Lets imagine that we are all living in Sweden. The average height for the guys is 6 feet tall and they are all chiseled like greek gods(the irony, heh?). The women are 5'7'' and can compete with a woman out of the Miss contest. How can there be womanizers in that Country when everyone is pretty much guaranteed to be attractive? How he talks. How he moves. How he looks at the woman. Looks and whatever help, a lot, when everyone is average, but womanizers hang out with their own so what seperates them from one another is their personality and how they go about making the woman feel. It actually worked, but most of those men only really wanted me for sex (not that I gave it to them Wasn't aware that one needs to have a man or a woman propose marriage for that guy/gal to be considered a player . Yes but, you grow up lots of different personality traits that are a combination of nature and nurture. Players have a combination of specific traits. They are not just confident, they are funny, engaging, are able to read people well and respond accordingly. Can anyone really change their core personality traits? Maybe, but certainly with a lot of hard work. I am just saying that men that are pushing 30 and struggle to get any female interested in them, are just not going to become players. No matter what PUA community says.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I'm like that too... I go out of my way to avoid hurt feelings. I know I could be a player if I chose to be.... I've been accused of it many times by female friends. I don't think it takes anything special to be a player. I really think it's something you can teach yourself to be. I've seen some fat ugly guys with obnoxious personalities do it. I think your problem is that women intimidate you, and you can't believe one would ever like you. Be friends with some, just enjoy them as humans... it takes the mystery away. The bolded is totally true. I have no idea why guys think that they can't "Get around" because they don't look some certain way or they aren't rich or whatever.
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And as a woman, I can tell you that looks DO count for a lot. The less good looking you are, the more brilliant your personality has to be to compensate.
Star Gazer Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And as a woman, I can tell you that looks DO count for a lot. The less good looking you are, the more brilliant your personality has to be to compensate. Disagree wholeheartedly. Further, typically women are not nearly as visual as men.
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Of course that is the way to do it. I completely fail to understand why any men figure that because they got laid one night with a girl that she will remember them fondly forever. Sex without meaning? There is no such thing. Life is not a cosmical event that aligns itself and makes everything right when sex with a woman you have feelings with, happens. I've had orgasmical experiences with women I had little contact with before the sex, and I've had average sensations and elevations of my senses and my feelings with women I had feelings for. Yes, she is going to forget me, maybe, and maybe she will never forget about me. That's the perfection of life. Nothing is forever. Nothing of human making and of human feeling and touch is going to stay, permanent. To think that someone puts so much importance in sex to the point of it having to be done in the context of whatever the person was brought to believe in(long-term relationship, marriage, virginity, etc) is both extremely tender and, it adds to the joy I have when I meet someone who is attracted to me, I'm attracted to her, and I lay down that I here and maybe, I'll be there one day still, in her memory, but that she is going to enjoy it. Meaningless sex. Now there's something funny. As if it was possible to drink water without being thankful of it's power to keep me alive. Think of it that way. I'm a human being whose goals are to be happy and to make people happy. No one leaves the bed feeling used, cheap, or that their value as a human being resides in their ability to have sex.
Mr.Cairo Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Disagree wholeheartedly. Further, typically women are not nearly as visual as men. And puppies also smell like roses when staying months without taking a shower.
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 The bolded is totally true. I have no idea why guys think that they can't "Get around" because they don't look some certain way or they aren't rich or whatever. I've always looked at it like this. I can mean something to a lot of women... or I can mean the world to one. And as a woman, I can tell you that looks DO count for a lot. The less good looking you are, the more brilliant your personality has to be to compensate. Some women are vapid and shallow... most are not. You will find the same of men... in the end many guys are less shallow than they act. I've dated women who I initially didn't think were gorgeous. They all became really pretty over time. Power of pheromones I suppose.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 And puppies also smell like roses when staying months without taking a shower. Rose-spray, try it on the rest of your wordy post that reek of BS. No hun, she'll remember you existed, but that's about it. I have done the deed and quite frankly the vast vast majority of it fades from memory and doesn't stay behind with any more meaning then a number once upon a time. I know men are pretty attached to their sexual pursuits, but women are more impressed by history and the impressions you can make on them by sticking around and appreciating the little things about them. They love men for all of the little things more. I.e. the way he ties his tie, the way his hands feel when he rubs her neck. (unless you make a grand impression, which isn't easy to do in the short-term) A little in and out and a delusion of grandeur on a Friday night makes you a one-hit wonder. You fade. Women aren't men, we don't operate like you.
Eternal Sunshine Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Disagree wholeheartedly. Further, typically women are not nearly as visual as men. That's a myth....and it trips many men up.
somedude81 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I'm like that too... I go out of my way to avoid hurt feelings. I know I could be a player if I chose to be.... I've been accused of it many times by female friends. I don't think it takes anything special to be a player. I really think it's something you can teach yourself to be. I've seen some fat ugly guys with obnoxious personalities do it. Interesting, so maybe it is something that can be learned. I think your problem is that women intimidate you, and you can't believe one would ever like you. Be friends with some, just enjoy them as humans... it takes the mystery away. Women don't really intimidate me any more, but you are right that I can't believe one would ever like me. I'm going to disagree with you on being with them as friends and enjoying them as humans. Been there, done that. I need to figure out a way to be with women and have sexual tension. When it's a platonic situation, it just feels like we are both guys. And she may see it as two girls hanging out
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Sex without meaning? There is no such thing. Life is not a cosmical event that aligns itself and makes everything right when sex with a woman you have feelings with, happens. I've had orgasmical experiences with women I had little contact with before the sex, and I've had average sensations and elevations of my senses and my feelings with women I had feelings for. (This is male and women tend to have better sex with the deeper emotional connection. If you look at the sexless marriage threads you can almost see the emotional disruption between the man and the woman. Same with the cheating female threads. Sex and emotion are pretty intertwined for us and are processed in the same areas of our brains. Not so for men.) Meaningless sex. Now there's something funny. As if it was possible to drink water without being thankful of it's power to keep me alive. Think of it that way. I'm a human being whose goals are to be happy and to make people happy. No one leaves the bed feeling used, cheap, or that their value as a human being resides in their ability to have sex. Some do. I know a support group full of them.
somedude81 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 The bolded is totally true. I have no idea why guys think that they can't "Get around" because they don't look some certain way or they aren't rich or whatever. I don't get around at all. And I really have no idea why not. All I can do is theorize. I think it's really funny how grown men can range from players to virgins. What are the key differences between them?
dreamingoftigers Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Disagree wholeheartedly. Further, typically women are not nearly as visual as men. I do agree with this. If the survival of the human race depended on men being attractive, we would have died out long ago. I've always looked at it like this. I can mean something to a lot of women... or I can mean the world to one. That is a beautiful attitude. I wish more men shared it. I wish more women appreciated it. Some women are vapid and shallow... most are not. You will find the same of men... in the end many guys are less shallow than they act. I've dated women who I initially didn't think were gorgeous. They all became really pretty over time. Power of pheromones I suppose. I find the same thing, exactly the same. The week I met my husband he told me that he liked me within two days. I wrote a journal entry describing how unattractive I found him. We hung out more and I started thinking about how handsome he was. I never noticed any other guys until last week. He has been gone for awhile now and I wasn't trying to check anyone out or anything but I was at a church group thing and noticed the 3 guys present and then realized that by textbook definition my husband wasn't as good-looking. Seemed odd to me, but our marriage is rocky now so I am not surprised to have noticed this. It just means I need to keep my thinking focused on repairing the emotional damage so I see him shine again. He needs to work at it too. That's a myth....and it trips many men up. I think women are very varietal. Some have the visual thing, some don't. The species depends on variety so of course there would be a "mixed bag" of genes in that regard. There also seems to be very few "universally attractive" male standards.
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