Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Westrock. You can't argue with hard numerical, empirical data. http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/what-if-there-were-not-so-many-white-people/ Bottom of the page It seems that generally, people of all races write down to blacks and Latinos and up to Asians and whites. This is a pretty crazy result: proof that race not only affects the quantity of the contacts between people, but the quality as well. For example, the average black person writes at a level almost one full grade-level higher when writing to a white person than when writing to another black person. All one has to do to see what I mean is turn on any TV show made from 1990 back. More than likely any African American character was negatively portrayed. One thing I remember from TV back then was that it seemed that all black men knew how to hotwire a car. The man could be a MD but he would know how to hot wire a car. The man could be a character on the old version of Battlestar Galactica...on a different planet... but he would know how to hotwire whatever vehicles they had there. More recently things have gotten a little bit better... but as the data shows not much..
carhill Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 Though not topical, OP, since you mentioned TV, what is your perspective on Bill Cosby? Topically, as I've lived both 'lives', being alone for many years as well as compromising myself for the sake of relationships, I would opine being devoid of human daily companion, if elemental compromise is the 'price', is a far healthier and satisfying choice. To wit, the care for my constant and loving non-human companion is already written into my trust, and my non-daily loving companions, my best friend and his wife, are charged with his care.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Bill Cosby... My POV on him is that he has a indelicate way of pointing the finger at the black underclass. Yes his show was one example of a extremely positive black family. A MD married to a Lawyer too. Which many other black comics pointed out was far removed from the reality of even most upper class black or white households. This aspect of him is a very controversial topic in the black community. Check out the reviews and comments on this book. Is Bill Cosby Right?: Or Has the Black Middle Class Lost Its Mind [Hardcover] Michael Eric Dyson As for compromise... There is compromise like... what color to paint the walls or what furniture to buy... That's part of being in a relationship. Then there is compromise like a man who demands that his GF not go to school and should just stay in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. There is compromising one's core values and beliefs. There is compromising ones self ... Though I get your point. I just don't want a RLship badly enough that I would compromise my core values for one. Edited March 27, 2011 by Mrlonelyone
westrock Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 You can't argue with hard numerical, empirical data. Assuming those findings are accurate, does that mean you act that way too to others of your race according to this data? Whether they are facts or beliefs are actually irrelevant. What's more relevant is how do you feel about those findings? Do they make your blood boil or do you think oh well I can't control other people so I won't let that bother me. All one has to do to see what I mean is turn on any TV show made from 1990 back. More than likely any African American character was negatively portrayed. What are your thoughts on Lt. Uhura, the female communications officer from the original Star Trek show? One thing I remember from TV back then was that it seemed that all black men knew how to hotwire a car. The man could be a MD but he would know how to hot wire a car. The man could be a character on the old version of Battlestar Galactica...on a different planet... but he would know how to hotwire whatever vehicles they had there. Do you believe that people think this about you? It seems from your watching tv you adopted the idea that people of your race are portrayed by society as dumb. This supports what I wrote above about your deep seated fears of what society thinks how you should act. Assume for a moment that some people think you are 'dumb'. What will that mean to you? Will it mean you are a "failure"? How does that make you feel?
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 @Westrock Yes I would feel bad if I lived down to the negative stereotypes that exist about black people. I would have to be totally dishonest to say otherwise.
carhill Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 OP, I mentioned Bill because he came from humble beginnings in that 'underclass' you mentioned and made choices in life which brought him to where he is today. With three siblings, a mother who worked as a maid and a father who was away fighting during WW2, he faced many challenges as a child/young man. After he deigned to repeat 10th grade, he could have remained a working teenager and followed a completely different path. Perhaps he could have been the unknown comic. His example is one of a young black man in a large city (Philadelphia) in a time when black men faced far more prejudice and challenges than they do today and the choices he made. Do you think he's an intelligent man? What can you learn from his 'style' of communicating his intellect? What compromises has he made as a husband of 46 years and a father of five? Though perhaps you understand the nuances far better than I, my belief is that we each have an infinite amount and scope of options available to us every day and each choice we make changes and molds those options and potentials. Are we the arbiter of our destiny and path in life? Why or why not? As an example, right now, I chose to continue writing this response rather than answering the phone. What has my choice changed? What compromise did I just make and what are the implications? Interesting stuff
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 The title of this thread is something I have found to be true in my few years on this earth. It applies beyond romance to friendship and business as well too. So much of the "advice" offered on here is about ways to compromise who we are for the sake of a relationship. If you have a career with too much prestige or education ... dumb it down. If you are into classical music... Don't tell people that it sounds wierd. If you are nice be a jerk. If you are a jerk be nice. If you like tall men then you should like short men. the list goes on and on and on. I just want to say the one bit of advice that I know will always work in finding a quality relationship. Just do you...the people who are meant to like you will. So be you. Do you. Put being true to who you are and what you like first. I may have had fewer relationships however I would say that overall I have had better quality relationships. I never misrepresented myself in order to get a large quantity of relationships. That should be the goal... quality. How in the world, did this (all of it good) devolve into a critique of the finer points of physics and race? I read almost all the posts, but I still can't believe the path that this thread took.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 OP, I mentioned Bill because he came from humble beginnings in that 'underclass' you mentioned and made choices in life which brought him to where he is today. With three siblings, a mother who worked as a maid and a father who was away fighting during WW2, he faced many challenges as a child/young man. After he deigned to repeat 10th grade, he could have remained a working teenager and followed a completely different path. Perhaps he could have been the unknown comic. His example is one of a young black man in a large city (Philadelphia) in a time when black men faced far more prejudice and challenges than they do today and the choices he made. Do you think he's an intelligent man? What can you learn from his 'style' of communicating his intellect? What compromises has he made as a husband of 46 years and a father of five? I mention the "underclass" because as Cosby is thought of by many blacks now is as an upper class snob. His humble beginings not withstanding. Yes I think he is an inteligent man with an Ed D. and pelnty of success.. As for his style of communicating not much of it applies to anything in my life. He's a comedian for the most part...and an educator of small children... I am a theoretical physicist. It's not an apples to apples comparison. As for compromises... I think you are thinking of the wrong things... I know relationships involve certain compromises. I am talking more about a persons core values. Trying to change who they are to get people to like them. Though perhaps you understand the nuances far better than I, my belief is that we each have an infinite amount and scope of options available to us every day and each choice we make changes and molds those options and potentials. Are we the arbiter of our destiny and path in life? Why or why not? We are not because there is a God and there also exist random chance. Random chance dictates what opportunities present themselves. Much of life is a matter of being in the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time. As an example, right now, I chose to continue writing this response rather than answering the phone. What has my choice changed? What compromise did I just make and what are the implications? Interesting stuff You made the type of compromise that I'm not talking about. If I asked you to convert to Islam that would be the kind of compromise that is the subject of this therad.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 As for compromises... I think you are thinking of the wrong things... I know relationships involve certain compromises. I am talking more about a persons core values. Trying to change who they are to get people to like them. I think trying to change who you are for someone else is rather illadvised on a number of levels. And yet I've changed myself many times to make myself more likable (overall) and increate my ability to connect with others. I would never suggest someone change core values for a partner (though people do convert religions and the like; they aren't forced to, or shouldn't be, hopefully, but do it of their own free will and choice without regret or resentment, or nothing good will come of it). However, if problems connecting with others are systemic, and that is "wished for," I would always suggest looking at what changes might be implemented to encourage overall happiness. That's how I have tried to change and grow---- what qualities do I have that hold me back from being happier. Sometimes those qualities happen to be the ones that might hold one back from forming better friendships or relationships, but the only reason to change qualities like that is for one's self and freely, without regret or resentment of others. And not to achieve a short-term goal (like get Johnny or Janie to love you) but only in service of longer-term goals. For instance, I have worked on improving my patience with people all my life, particularly when they're being willfully obtuse. I could sit there and say, "These people don't deserve my patience. And this is who I am. I am impatient! It is at my core." And I could do less well with my students, with my friends, with colleagues, with relationships. Or I could work on me and do better and be happier overall, because of the changes I've made to who I am. So, sometimes I think "core change" is warranted but it has to be for the right reasons.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I don't necessarily think that being a scientist is a problem. But I do agree with some of the female posters; you're probably turning off women by being stuck up. If I had a girl treat me like I was stupid, I would say, "see ya!" I imagine that these women are acting this way towards you, not because you're trying to explain physics to them, but because you're acting like they wouldn't be able to understand it, unless you explained it to them yourself. You're feeding an inferiority/superiority complex, and these women are running away from you because of it.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 @ Leaningin. but because you're acting like they wouldn't be able to understand it, unless you explained it to them yourself. I only act that way after someone says "I don't understand". Which only happens after they have pestered me to explain this or that to them. I would not be the first northern negro to be called uppity and I won't be the last.
WorldIsYours Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I don't necessarily think that being a scientist is a problem. But I do agree with some of the female posters; you're probably turning off women by being stuck up. If I had a girl treat me like I was stupid, I would say, "see ya!" I imagine that these women are acting this way towards you, not because you're trying to explain physics to them, but because you're acting like they wouldn't be able to understand it, unless you explained it to them yourself. You're feeding an inferiority/superiority complex, and these women are running away from you because of it. It's probably not him necessarily being stuck up, but more likely the women who dated him were ignorant. Incompatibility issues.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I only act that way after someone says "I don't understand". Which only happens after they have pestered me to explain this or that to them. It's still snobbish to act that way after someone doesn't understand. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps part of the responsibility for the receptive party understanding falls on the person who's trying to explain? If everyone you try to explain a particular thing to doesn't understand it, what's the common factor there?
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 @World is yours. That is very possible. In fact that's kinda what I have been trying to get at. There is no point in my trying to be more "likable"... by changing how I speak if the content is the same. There is just no way to say your a physicist that won't intimidate someone who has insecurities about their own brains. In particular with my being a member of a group that is stereotyped as being uneducated at best. @Zengirl At what cost should I change to be more 'likeable'. I know that if I were to wear saggy baggy pants and thug out I would be more accepted. I would just loath myself if I did. (I know that because I tried that at one point and lo and behold more people liked me but I hated myself.) If somone says they don't understand how is it snobbish for me to take them at their word and explain it like they don't understand?
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 @Zengirl At what cost should I change to be more 'likeable'. I know that if I were to wear saggy baggy pants and thug out I would be more accepted. I would just loath myself if I did. (I know that because I tried that at one point and lo and behold more people liked me but I hated myself.) Any changes should be positive, conducive to your overall happiness, and for the betterment of your character. So, if you'd "loathe yourself" for it, it's not a productive change. I refuse to believe you'd have to "thug out" to be more successful than you are. I'm thinking there are other options available to you and other ways you can improve yourself in a positive way that will help you get closer to results you want in dating and be happier overall. Mostly because that's true for every human being, including those already successful and those who've had no success at all and everyone in between.
WorldIsYours Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 It's still snobbish to act that way after someone doesn't understand. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps part of the responsibility for the receptive party understanding falls on the person who's trying to explain? If everyone you try to explain a particular thing to doesn't understand it, what's the common factor there? He said he does that after they pestered him to explain, which shows ignorance to what he was trying to explain to them.
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 @World is yours. That is very possible. In fact that's kinda what I have been trying to get at. There is no point in my trying to be more "likable"... by changing how I speak if the content is the same. There is just no way to say your a physicist that won't intimidate someone who has insecurities about their own brains. In particular with my being a member of a group that is stereotyped as being uneducated at best. @Zengirl At what cost should I change to be more 'likeable'. I know that if I were to wear saggy baggy pants and thug out I would be more accepted. I would just loath myself if I did. (I know that because I tried that at one point and lo and behold more people liked me but I hated myself.) If somone says they don't understand how is it snobbish for me to take them at their word and explain it like they don't understand? If there's one thing I've learned about life it's that one should never worry about being liked, because there will always be someone who will find something about you not to like. It's their loss though. Bobby Knight sums up my thoughts on this perfectly: "When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my @$$."
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 He said he does that after they pestered him to explain, which shows ignorance to what he was trying to explain to them. It shows they didn't understand. If I ask someone to explain a complicated concept to me, and I still don't understand, I do not believe it makes me ignorant. (I'm assuming they're not asking him something like "What's the recipe for ice cubes?") Nor do I believe it makes others ignorant, if I'm the one in the "expert" position. But perhaps I'm used to re-explaining myself in the instruction of others. It is what I do, after all. I find anyone who ASKS to learn something and then ADMITS when they don't yet understand quite the opposite of ignorant. They are very aware of the gaps in their own knowledge and attempting to fill some of them in. Good on them.
WorldIsYours Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 If there's one thing I've learned about life it's that one should never worry about being liked, because there will always be someone who will find something about you not to like. It's their loss though. Bobby Knight sums up my thoughts on this perfectly: "When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my @$$." And some folks who say they don't like you, actually do deep down inside them.
WorldIsYours Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 It shows they didn't understand. If I ask someone to explain a complicated concept to me, and I still don't understand, I do not believe it makes me ignorant. (I'm assuming they're not asking him something like "What's the recipe for ice cubes?") Nor do I believe it makes others ignorant, if I'm the one in the "expert" position. But perhaps I'm used to re-explaining myself in the instruction of others. It is what I do, after all. I find anyone who ASKS to learn something and then ADMITS when they don't yet understand quite the opposite of ignorant. They are very aware of the gaps in their own knowledge and attempting to fill some of them in. Good on them. But what about someone who explain something to them a dozen times? It just shows their ignorant (or mentally dumb).
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Zengirl. I think maybe it's not that they asked for an explaination that would make them "ignorant". It's that they 1.) Asked me to explain. 2.) Once I explained in a concise and plain manner they did not understand and asked for more explanation. 3.)I give a simple explanation...say with a diagram... they then take my simplification as an insult to them...when they already said they did not understand. That's ignorant...because that person may have not realized at all what I was talking about...
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 It's still snobbish to act that way after someone doesn't understand. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps part of the responsibility for the receptive party understanding falls on the person who's trying to explain? If everyone you try to explain a particular thing to doesn't understand it, what's the common factor there? Agreed. The teaching is only as good as the teacher. I once had a math teacher, who basically would call us stupid, and scare the hell out of us, for not knowing the answer to the questions. Needless to say, the percentage of people that passed that class was smaller than the percentage that failed. I also wanted to tackle this quote of world's: It's probably not him necessarily being stuck up, but more likely the women who dated him were ignorant. Incompatibility issues. That is akin to saying, "You're a retarded, I am the intellectual." Basically being a snobby, stuck up brat who thinks the world shines out his arse. Look, everyone is gifted and flawed in different ways. I am very musically gifted. I can hear a song, and 5 mins later, know how to play it on guitar. I also can write a song within 5-10 mins, good songs. Ones that people have told me that I should send to record companies, because they could be hit singles. I also am very poor at math and science. The logic just goes over my head. I failed basic high school chemistry, while I aced English, History, and my music and choir and band and drama and art classes. What IS ignorant is stating that someone's intelligence is based upon their knowledge of an obscure subject, that you are gifted at, and disregarding that they may have knowledge of an obscure subject, that THEY'RE good at, that you're not. That, again, makes you look like a stuck up snobby brat.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 I think that in certain cases it really is that the person I am talking too does not think I am able to understand something that they might not. It is usually white women who are trying to be friendly that fall into that. Then when I turn out not to be a stereotypical black man they back off. They were looking for one thing and I am not that. My father told me of such things happening to him... as did his father... (I did not get this color by accident.) The good ones will listen and try to understand but more importantly empathize with my passion for what I do. While I will try to empathize with whatever their passion is weather I really understand it... in detail.. or not. Like I sort of did at the Opera.. I don't know French... but if she could read a physics book in order to get a basic grasp of what I do I would think I could go to an opera. Which makes what occurred all the more confusing. Cest le vie @Leaning into the muse I never said a word about intelligence. I said that anyone who can't understand the basic idea that math can be used to model nature is simply not going to be compatible with me. Let me put it this way. Did the word problems they had in grade school make their head ache? If they answer yes then odds are they won't get along with me.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 But what about someone who explain something to them a dozen times? It just shows their ignorant (or mentally dumb). As I said, it depends as much on the explainer as the one listening. If he's run into this problem several times, and especially if he's never been successful in explaining it, I'd question his ability to explain it or teach it. Of course, the person might not have the background knowledge to understand what he's trying to say --- what that means about them would vary, depending on what that background knowledge is (i.e. if it's basic calculation or the ingredients for ice, yeah, they're not the brightest crayon in the box; if they don't know a complex scientific theorem that his whole presentation rests upon or have any connecting points to tie the information to in their minds, that's a completely different story). Certainly, if he's re-explained it several times, it is unproductive to continue doing the same thing. Something would need to change in order for the person to understand it. Zengirl. I think maybe it's not that they asked for an explaination that would make them "ignorant". It's that they 1.) Asked me to explain. 2.) Once I explained in a concise and plain manner they did not understand and asked for more explanation. 3.)I give a simple explanation...say with a diagram... they then take my simplification as an insult to them...when they already said they did not understand. That's ignorant...because that person may have not realized at all what I was talking about... Again, is it not possible that perhaps you aren't very good at explaining? I mean, if you have these problems frequently, YOU are the common factor. I once had a math teacher, who basically would call us stupid, and scare the hell out of us, for not knowing the answer to the questions. Needless to say, the percentage of people that passed that class was smaller than the percentage that failed. Yes, I've known students like that. And teachers who have advanced degrees in their subject matter but who cannot or will not translate the material. Being an expert is not all you need in order to explain/teach something effectively. What IS ignorant is stating that someone's intelligence is based upon their knowledge of an obscure subject, that you are gifted at, and disregarding that they may have knowledge of an obscure subject, that THEY'RE good at, that you're not. I agree with this. At the same time, I'm not going to pretend some people aren't smarter/better at learning/more educated/more knowledgable OVERALL than others. It's true. It happens. But if it's become a handicap in your life that you're too smart, it's not really intelligence that's your problem. It's ego.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 At the same time, I'm not going to pretend some people aren't smarter/better at learning/more educated/more knowledgable OVERALL than others. It's true. It happens. But if it's become a handicap in your life that you're too smart, it's not really intelligence that's your problem. It's ego. I completely agree. However, just because you're good at something, it doesn't mean that you're better, or smarter, or more skilled, than someone else. It just means you found your niche. I can't play sports very well. However, I come from a long line of family who are good at sports. They've never looked down on me for it, though, since I'm "the artistic one." They give me musical gifts; my cousin gave me a bass guitar for Christmas last year. It was brand new, never been played. I've gotten a lot of use out of it, and have started recording basslines for my songs and teaching myself bass guitar. There's nothing more that I hate than someone saying that they're smarter than me. Sure, if you know how to solve a difficult physics problem, that's something I'll never be able to do...but that doesn't make you any smarter than me. It just means you have different skills. I'm sorry, but mr. lonely, you can't approach dating like that. It's akin to saying you're better than these girls. What if you meet a girl scientist, who's much, much smarter than you? She'll make you feel dumb (and yes, there are women scientists out there.) If you feel like this is a problem in your life, it's not because of the women you're dating. The only main factor is you. You're the one who wants to feel superior by showing off your intellect. If these women can't keep up with you, it's not their fault...but it shows a lot about who you are, when you get irritated by it.
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