Guys: Why I Might Not Be Attracted To YOU

[P&R]

P&R

 

That's precisely what I end up doing. However I open with the technical terms in hopes whoever I'm talking to will get them... then if they ask me to simplify it I do.

 

If I come in speaking in a oversimplified way...then there is a good chance I end up being accused of "talking down" to people. While if I hit someone with the full jargon..then they ask me to tone it down they can't complain that I'm treating them like their dumb. See what I mean?

Unfortunately, you will have to talk down to people. It is unrealistic to expect that people will understand your technical jargon. From what I learned in my public speech class technical speak is one of the quickest ways to create disconnect with your audience. Both my teacher, and the textbook drilled this into my head constantly.

[Mrlonelyone]

P&R I know that I may have to talk down to people. I have just learned since I took public speech class long ago.

 

People will admit their ignorance freely...but they don't like having it pointed out to them. You may think your delivery is smooth...but folks know if they are being dumbed down to and they generally don't like it.

[P&R]

That does not work because what I do isn't solving the mysteries of life.....:/

 

I apply mathematics to the fundamental constituents and interactions of nature.

 

If someone finds that too complicated to understand then NEXT!

I can understand what you're saying, but it feels like I'm talking to a textbook.... and I only know of one person who enjoys reading textbooks on their free time.

[Mrlonelyone]

P&R.

 

Well I don't know what to tell you. First of all in writing you can't see my body language or hear my voice or any such thing. Which softens that impression by a bit.

 

It's an accurate impression because my book shelf is full of all my textbooks from undergrad and grad school. Plus a few copies of the book I wrote and published on physics...then there is my thesis which is essentially a textbook of cosmology.

 

I know you don't mean this to be racial...but I have to admit that when people claim that I write or speak too proper or serious...I can't help but think they expect me to use ebonics. You know..fulfill some odd stereotypes about black people.

[P&R]

P&R.

 

Well I don't know what to tell you. First of all in writing you can't see my body language or hear my voice or any such thing. Which softens that impression by a bit.

 

It's an accurate impression because my book shelf is full of all my textbooks from undergrad and grad school. Plus a few copies of the book I wrote and published on physics...then there is my thesis which is essentially a textbook of cosmology.

 

I know you don't mean this to be racial...but I have to admit that when people claim that I write or speak too proper or serious...I can't help but think they expect me to use ebonics. You know..fulfill some odd stereotypes about black people.

I honestly wasn't even aware that you were black. From your avatar picture I took a random guess that you were Indian/Pakistani.

 

Now onto the way you speak, at least on here it's very academic. Personally I don't mind it... In fact I think you would be a cool person to sit down, have a beer with.. I'd love to pick your brain. However, unfortunately most people out there will be put off by dense 'academic speak'. Dating is essentially about having fun, and like I said... I only know one person in real life who reads textbooks for fun. (although I have been known from time to time to crack history textbooks for fun)

[Titania22]

Since it’s hard for me to be attracted to anyone, I’ve been thinking about what attracted me to my ex. It was because he was different.

 

Here’s something I’ve noticed about the guys I went on dates with in the past: They were, essentially, all the same. They may look different, have different jobs and interests, but they’re approach was the same (on many levels). So Jeff’s talking about scuba diving and Joe’s talking about photography, but the way they discussed it felt the same to me—like they were trying to prove they were interesting and I should like them. All I started to hear was blah, blah, blah.

 

This is why I was attracted to my ex. He talked about his interests, but not with an agenda (to make me like him).

 

Also, there’s nothing more attractive, to me, than a man who doesn’t make getting a woman a priority. What attracted me to my ex was the fact that he didn’t hit on me or flirt with me when we first met—he just talked to me, like he’d talk to anyone (male or female). Also, he didn’t chase me. I HATE being chased. I end up feeling like the cat from Pepe la Pew when guys do this. He didn’t play hard to get either. It was just that he had a life and was happy, and dating was in no way his main concern.

 

Guys, a woman who likes you will let you know. If I like someone, I will make contact and let them know I like them. I called my ex first.

 

My ex also made me feel like he wouldn’t date just anyone, that there was something special about ME.

 

It seems like many guys sit around wondering how to pick up women. That’s so bizarre to me (and unattractive). I think their preoccupation with trying to date any decent woman is obvious and not endearing. We can tell when it’s not about us, when any cute girl would suffice.

 

Do any of the women feel similar? What do the guys think?

 

I identify with what you have said here. Body language would be a factor as well. I'm not shy if I am interested, bu it might take time before I am, so I would rather a guy has friendly non sexual conversations with me. There is no way at this point in my life some guy is going to catch me feeling so low about myself that I will actually find his unasked for advances appealing.

 

Women need to be able to develop their "wants". If guys start "selling" themselves as "scuba divers" or "photographers", they give themselves away that they are what they are as part of their "gimmick" to get what THEY WANT. When they just are themselves in how they go about things and don't "sell", they instead "market" themselves or, in other words simply allow others to "buy them" if and when they're interested. So, there has to be sensitivity to a woman's personal wants--she's not a property or an objective, she's an equal.

 

I really like this FeelingFrisky. I would much rather people behaved genuinely, and let me decide for myself if I am interested.

[Mrlonelyone]

I honestly wasn't even aware that you were black. From your avatar picture I took a random guess that you were Indian/Pakistani.

 

Well I am actually Black, White, and American Indian. I am named after a famous American Indian... and my families culture is strongly influenced by them. So your in good company. Columbus made the same mistake.

 

Now onto the way you speak, at least on here it's very academic. Personally I don't mind it... In fact I think you would be a cool person to sit down, have a beer with.. I'd love to pick your brain. However, unfortunately most people out there will be put off by dense 'academic speak'.

 

Well when it comes to the topic of what I do for a living the thing is there are few jokes I can tell about it to the average person that they would think are funny. What good are my black hole jokes when they don't know what a black hole is? (I kid you not there are many such people.)

 

So I don't joke about it. I play that part straight and try to move away from the topic as quick as I can most of the time.

 

I often find myself placed, on the spot, in the role of educator. Such is probably why so many scientist end up marrying other scientist.

 

Dating is essentially about having fun, and like I said... I only know one person in real life who reads textbooks for fun. (although I have been known from time to time to crack history textbooks for fun)

 

Let me tell you something my father told me yesterday.

 

When he was a young man and just came to Chicago he already had a BS in Chemistry and was comming here to study medicine. He was from Omaha Nebraska.

 

He noticed when he was here that he had a problem with certain people over the way he spoke. Black people would wonder about his "white" accent. Which was really just midwestern and think he was "uppity". White women he noted...would start talking in phony southern accents and slang or jive around him. Which he didn't speak since he was from Omaha Nebraska of the 1940's and 50's.

 

His observation is that people wanted him to speak like a n-word. That when he did not meet their expectations and proved to be an intellegent educated person they did not want to be around him.

 

People still harbor these ideas. According to this.

 

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/what-if-there-were-not-so-many-white-people/

 

It seems that generally, people of all races write down to blacks and Latinos and up to Asians and whites. This is a pretty crazy result: proof that race not only affects the quantity of the contacts between people, but the quality as well. For example, the average black person writes at a level almost one full grade-level higher when writing to a white person than when writing to another black person.

 

Now I can be a fun date. However I will not act like an ignorant date just to fit someone else's mold.

[EasyHeart]

Since it’s hard for me to be attracted to anyone, I’ve been thinking about what attracted me to my ex. It was because he was different.

 

Here’s something I’ve noticed about the guys I went on dates with in the past: They were, essentially, all the same. They may look different, have different jobs and interests, but they’re approach was the same (on many levels). So Jeff’s talking about scuba diving and Joe’s talking about photography, but the way they discussed it felt the same to me—like they were trying to prove they were interesting and I should like them. All I started to hear was blah, blah, blah.

 

This is why I was attracted to my ex. He talked about his interests, but not with an agenda (to make me like him).

 

Also, there’s nothing more attractive, to me, than a man who doesn’t make getting a woman a priority. What attracted me to my ex was the fact that he didn’t hit on me or flirt with me when we first met—he just talked to me, like he’d talk to anyone (male or female). Also, he didn’t chase me. I HATE being chased. I end up feeling like the cat from Pepe la Pew when guys do this. He didn’t play hard to get either. It was just that he had a life and was happy, and dating was in no way his main concern.

 

Guys, a woman who likes you will let you know. If I like someone, I will make contact and let them know I like them. I called my ex first.

 

My ex also made me feel like he wouldn’t date just anyone, that there was something special about ME.

 

It seems like many guys sit around wondering how to pick up women. That’s so bizarre to me (and unattractive). I think their preoccupation with trying to date any decent woman is obvious and not endearing. We can tell when it’s not about us, when any cute girl would suffice.

 

Do any of the women feel similar? What do the guys think?

This is great advice. For me, the light went on in my brain when I realized that attracting women was no different than attracting clients: if I go in making a "hard sell", my odds of getting the client were very low, but if I just let them know I was interested and that I was smart and diligent (which is what clients are usually looking for in my line of work), then I had a good chance of getting their business.

 

I think what's behind all this is something that we talk about all the time on LS: desperation. Women (and men) can sense it miles away. And desperation arises from insecurity. Iris gave some great advice in describing how a secure man behaves around a woman. A lot of dating advice centers around telling men and women how to pretend to be secure and confident, but it's even better to BE secure and confident. It's much easier to sell a product that you believe is good, but it's even easier to sell a product that really IS good!

 

Kamille's example dialogues were wonderful, and they reminded me of a cliche that (like most cliches) has a lot of truth in it: "Interested is interesting". My goal on a first date is to find out as much as I can about a woman. After all, I've already decided that I want to sleep with her -- that's why I asked her out. The point of a date is to find out whether she is smart and sweet enough for me to bother spending more time on her. On the date, I'm the customer; I want to know if she has more to offer than just a cute face and nice butt.

 

Note to the guys: One of the most fascinating thing I've noticed on LS is that when women post general advice (much of which is helpful), men who complain about not being able to get dates start arguing with the advice and telling the women that they're wrong and that the women shouldn't be attracted to men who behave that way. If you're not successful with women, then something is wrong with you -- not the women! You need to change how you look or think or act; the world is not going to change to accommodate you.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

OP: Why I might not be attracted to you -

 

You lump all guys into the same subsection, without getting to know them as PEOPLE.

[Survivor12]

Iris, I can relate to exactly what you were talking about in your OP. When I meet a guy who isn't focused solely on impressing me, I feel like I get a better "take" on who he really is. On the contrary, the ones who have an obvious agenda--who ask me out before they even know my name or with whom I've exchanged nothing more than a few words, who inflate their "qualifications" or those who try to corner me) make me feel like they're more interested in the "score" than who I am--as if women are interchangeable.

 

------------------------

And, Mr. Lonely, about your comment:

"If someone finds that too complicated to understand then NEXT!"

 

No wonder you're lonely. Seriously, no matter how "smart" one may be, no one knows everything. There are always some things of which they are ignorant. Just because someone does not have knowledge or background on a particular subject, does not necessarily mean that they are unable to understand the concepts involved.

 

"Not all intelligence can be measured by an IQ test. In fact, primarily, an IQ test measures mathematical and spatial reasoning, logical ability, and language understanding. Thus a person who is speaking English as a second language might score poorly on the language comprehension aspects of a test, and an IQ test would not be an adequate measurement of intelligence."

 

Before you begin to formulate your response, perhaps you should think about what you wrote in an earlier post:

"If their not interested their won't be a third time." The sentence should read, "If they're not interested, there won't be a third time."

 

So, does that mean that you aren't "smart enough" for an English teacher that has no background in Science? Would you feel a woman was justified in rejecting you because you can't spell?

 

Think about it...by discarding women because they don't understand your "jargon" or assuming that you are more intelligent, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

So the deal is, we have to impress you, by NOT impressing you?

 

What if we impress you by impressing you that we're not impressed by you trying to impress us by us impressing you?

 

Confusing, isn't it? Well, women are confusing.

[zengirl]

It was like they were giving a presentation titled "Why You Should Like Me." There wasn't a lot of give and take--they were just talking and didn't seem to care if I responded, just that I was listening and paying attention to the "presentation." It's like they were trying to think of "cool" things to say about themselves.

 

I agree with this. I don't like to chase guys down like you seem to, and I want them to show interest in me, but not have a spiel. I want to feel like the guys are interested in getting to know me, not interested in talking all about themselves to try to impress me. There's a big difference. And, at the same time, I'll ask them questions to get to know them, so it's not like I want the date to be all about me, but if someone comes in, trying to "present" themselves, it's lame. The goal is just the opposite----trying to get to know the other person.

 

Kamile I don't think the problem in the second example is that the man is doing a monologue... the problem is that he may be too ambitious for pig farm woman to date without feeling inadequate.

 

If Alex is full of crap and making up stuff you have a point. NASA astronaughts tend to be people with MS's and PhD's in genetically engineering gravity resistant pigs..and they get married....to women with the drive to become congressmen. (Gabrielle Giffords and her hubby Mark Kelly anyone)

 

Gabbie:What do you do Mark?

Mark:I'm a NASA Astronaught I'm a very driven guy. You need to be if you want to become an astronaut". How about you?

Gabbie:I'm a congresswoman. It's a lot of hard work but I'm working with the leaders in the field. My boss is demanding but we make it happen. We're really close to a breakthrough. I love this ****. It's my life".

 

Then they talk about their passions.

 

I agree with Kamile and others that monologues and people who always switch the conversations back to themselves, particularly if they're trying to impress me/dates is a problem. I don't think the issue is "Oh, I'm so intimidated," a lot of the time. I've been on a lot of 1st dates with guys who were full of themselves. I'm totally secure in what I do and in my life, and I even like successful guys who care about their careers.

 

However I don't like guys who would have to say something like "I'm a very driven guy. You would need to be if you want to become an astronaut." That sounds totally spiel-like and very arrogant. I definitely get what male trait the OP brought up there, and guys who have that trait make me so bored and exhausted. I just want to get away. And I'm a PhD student, a very ambitious woman, a well-traveled, well-educated, self-supporting, passionate person. I only date interesting men with passions and careers they enjoy. But I don't date men who are "showy" about what their interests and passions are, as though the point is to demonstrate how great they are (either to me, themselves, society, whatever).

 

Interests make you interesting, but they don't seem like real interests if you're using them to defend your worth as a human being. And really who has to do that?

[Mrlonelyone]

Survivor..

 

If my describing what I do as "Applying mathematics to nature". Is too complex of a concept for someone to understand then I can't help them. That's what I do. That is the shortest simplest possible description.

 

I said nothing about IQ test or anything in what you responded to.

 

Zengirl

 

Your a PhD Student. Have you ever had a man shrink away from you once you say that?

[nezbo]

Yeah, I definitely agree with the OP, I think thats good advice.

If I'm interested in a woman, I try to genuinely talk to her as a friend, really listen, try to understand her personality, values and passions. If I cant genuinely relate to her on those levels then I wouldnt be interested in her anyway.

 

I use a lot of humor, humor is a great way to establish warmth and bond while keeping light and easy. I make a point of making her feel like I respect her as an equal, not trying to build myself up for some kind of big sell... I want her to be able to trust that she knows the genuine real me, rather than feel like shes talking to a presentation. I make myself very open, not exaggerating my good points or hiding/minimising my flaws, I just be honest and let them get to know the real me, they can tell when your putting on a front.

 

Humor is really important to me, both ways.. I joke a lot, and really love it when a girl can make me laugh... actually if she cant make me laugh I probably wont be very interested (except may be physically attracted), same if she doesnt 'get' my sense of humor, thats a turn-off, usually means shes a bit dumb.

 

I think the main thing is treating her like an equal, but to do that you need to actually have real respect for her, not just think 'shes pretty, seems to like me, she will do'.

 

As well as being fun, treating her as an equal, and genuinely being interested in her as a person, I will also subtley let her know I am attracted to her, while being careful not to do it in a way that might be overbearing or make her feel uncomfortable. I make sure I give her an easy way out if shes not interested e.g. if she doesnt reciprocate a bit of subtle affection I wont push it.

 

It should all flow naturally and easily, give and take. It shouldnt seem forced or unbalanced.

Edited March 26, 2011 by nezbo

[Mrlonelyone]

@survivor

 

In reply to your comment. I never mentioned IQ or anything else.

 

What set you off was my writing this.

 

I apply mathematics to the fundamental constituents and interactions of nature.

 

If someone finds that too complicated to understand then NEXT!

 

The person does not have to be a scientist or mathematician.... They just need to understand the concept of applying mathematics. They don't have to be able to do it.

 

Remember I'm talking about how to describe what it is I do in a simple and brief but not "dumbed down" way.

 

Your response to me was uncalled for.

 

Furthermore to be quite honest anyone who can't get the concept that they can use math to solve practical problems would not be a good fit for me. I know this about myself now. So I say NEXT! Then I don't give a damm if they like me after that.

 

If that makes me elitist then what the **** in hell ever.

[sniffys]

i just want someone to love me

 

i guess as i got older i just narrowed some stuff. before, i was way complicated.

[Mme. Chaucer]

To the OP:

 

I agree, with the caveat that I don't know for sure if a guy is trying to impress me, or not. What I DO know for sure when getting to know a person is whether there is a flow of discourse going on; if the person is talking from the heart, whether it be about their job, their daily life, or whatever, or if it is more, as another poster put it, "an exchange if information."

 

If a person has a passion, or even a true interest in what they are discussing, combined with a real interest in hearing what the other person is saying, that is a big step in the right direction of creating a real connection.

 

Some people go into dating with the wrong idea, IMO. Lots of that has been expressed on this thread, and elsewhere on LS. The "numbers game," ALL the PUA stuff, the stuff women do that seems to be out of the book "The Rules," the idea of "dumbing down" to make a connection, boasting, bragging, and the list goes on.

 

All that crap is just a bunch of ... crap thrown up that interferes with people actually communicating with one another, or being able to learn that their communication styles are really just not going to mesh.

[Ometeotl]

It all comes down down to a twist of fate.

 

I love people for the most part, but how many new friends... serious friends will I make in a lifetime, not many. I am picky and I dont chase after people.

 

I like to get to know people, male or female.

 

However most of my closest friends are simply due to fate pulling us together.

 

Thats how I see relationships in general, attraction is part of existance, I just leave it up to fate/God to set up such things.

 

If I chose all my friends, there would be a huge bias! Same with woman.

 

I think the idea of getting what you want through ones own personal methods is simply an illusion of power.

 

None of us have much power over ourselves much less adding another person in the mix.

 

Let fate decide, or keep seeking what you "want" knowing know what you want is not always what you want.

[nezbo]

Mrlonelyone

 

You come across slightly cold and condescending.

Seems like your desperate to validate yourself to every other commentor.

 

It sounds like you have a very interesting and respectable job, but maybe you need to offer more humbleness, warmth and personality?

[Mme. Chaucer]

What if you have a naturally "too intelligent" (so I was told about my dating profiles) manner of writing, and speaking? Suppose my elocution is just naturally proper?

 

Mr Lonely, since you have brought this point up many times over, I need to tell you that you DO NOT have a "too intelligent" manner of writing. Perhaps when you are writing about your field of study, you do, but in normal written discourse, you do not.

 

I do not mean to insult you and I don't doubt that you are as intelligent as you say you are; however, you do seem to have a skewed notion of how you come across.

 

I am telling you this because I believe, from what I've read, that you are sincerely looking for love and that finding a way of bringing your persona more in line with what's inside of you would help you find someone who would make a good partner with you.

 

Plus, I am a grammatically conscientious person, like the author of this hilarious blog:

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

 

Sorry for the TJ! Forgive me!

[Mrlonelyone]

Some people go into dating with the wrong idea, IMO. Lots of that has been expressed on this thread, and elsewhere on LS. The "numbers game," ALL the PUA stuff, the stuff women do that seems to be out of the book "The Rules," the idea of "dumbing down" to make a connection, boasting, bragging, and the list goes on.

 

Other than the "numbers game" thing I think I never properly explained that. I gave you the idea it was about asking out anyone and everyone. I agree with this.

 

All that crap is just a bunch of ... crap thrown up that interferes with people actually communicating with one another, or being able to learn that their communication styles are really just not going to mesh.

 

YES YES YES BRAVO:bunny::bunny: I could not agree with this more.

 

Everyone has a different communication style and a different relationship style. There are no universal rules. Love is not a zero sum game. There don't have to be winners and loosers in the kind of game love is.

 

Be true to you and who you are.

 

If you are a pig farmer be proud of that. Don't think you have to make corny jokes about it.

 

If you are a NASA astronaut hell yeah be proud of it... Don't think you have to be all self deprecating about it.

 

If you speak the slang of the streets speak that and to hell with anyone who would look down at you.

 

If you speak with proper elocution and a broad vocabulary then do that.

 

The idea that there is one thing that can attract everyone is utter garbage.

 

So that's why I say... if the mere concept of applied mathematics and theoretical physics ... if the idea that math can model nature is too complicated for someone. NEXT!

 

No hard feelings... your not "stupid"... your just not right for me.

 

It would be like trying to explain being a medical doctor to someone who has no idea that medicine exist.

[Ometeotl]

It all comes down down to a twist of fate.

 

I love people for the most part, but how many new friends... serious friends will I make in a lifetime, not many. I am picky and I dont chase after people.

 

I like to get to know people, male or female.

 

However most of my closest friends are simply due to fate pulling us together.

 

Thats how I see relationships in general, attraction is part of existance, I just leave it up to fate/God to set up such things.

 

If I chose all my friends, there would be a huge bias! Same with woman.

 

I think the idea of getting what you want through ones own personal methods is simply an illusion of power.

 

None of us have much power over ourselves much less adding another person in the mix.

 

Let fate decide, or keep seeking what you "want" knowing know what you want is not always what you want.

 

Hehe, I am quoting myself!

 

Maybe one thing, my personal issue. When people do come in to my life and become important to me, I take that very serious and its heartbreaking when things dont work out!

 

So ya, better to have loved and to have lost... or some Bull**** like that

[Mrlonelyone]

Mr Lonely, since you have brought this point up many times over, I need to tell you that you DO NOT have a "too intelligent" manner of writing. Perhaps when you are writing about your field of study, you do, but in normal written discourse, you do not.

 

Thankyou.

 

I was quoting from this posting not tooting my own horn.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3308729&postcount=12

 

 

The only reason I'm giving you this advice is because I know that for me, and most others that I know or who have used online dating sites, I don't like to see that someone is 10 times smarter than me without at least getting to know them first. I hate feeling like an idiot..and to feel like an idiot on a date wouldn't be the best of things, and I would actually not go out with someone who I felt would make me feel that way. How a few of your sentences were structured, made me get the vibe that some people would classify you as "too intelligent" and not because of what science parts you mentioned, just how you wrote who you are. I would however absolutely love to go out with someone who was clearly interested in something that is important to him, and who could teach me more about that, but also who I could have a great time with and connect to. That's what I think you should strive to do with your profile..show them that you can teach them new things (not like a teacher, but as a partner would), that you love science, but that you aren't "too smart" for someone to handle.

 

@Nezbo

 

I don't see how printed words can be warm or cold. That can only come from within you.

[GoodOnPaper]

I think the main thing is treating her like an equal, but to do that you need to actually have real respect for her, not just think 'shes pretty, seems to like me, she will do'.

 

It's tough for this to really soak in when it's hard to simply meet a lot of women. 'She's pretty, seems to like me, she will do' is very tempting when you know it may be weeks or months before the next first meeting/conversation -- and when it does happen, she turns out to have a boyfriend/fiance/husband 99% of the time.

 

It's so counterintuitive -- in such a short conversation, you have to have the looks to set off immediate physical sparks galore while showing something specific and special about her that you're attracted to?? Ugh.

 

That said, I do think it is important to find the right character/personality issue to test to see if her personality is as "cool" as her looks may be "hot". Not an easy task in a short conversation. However, this is good:

 

Humor is really important to me, both ways.. I joke a lot, and really love it when a girl can make me laugh... actually if she cant make me laugh I probably wont be very interested (except may be physically attracted), same if she doesnt 'get' my sense of humor, thats a turn-off

 

Humor is the main one for me, too. I imagine that for others, it could be philosophy on something-or-other, shared interests in something specific, etc. Whatever helps vibing.

[Woggle]

Why would you be angry about being rejected by women who have a boyfriend or a husband? You are better off without them. I once ended up on a date with a woman I found out was married and I just got up and left. I went up to the main desk and paid the bill and left her there. I don't deal with that kind of crap.