Thursday Afternoon at the Opera.

[Mrlonelyone]

As a follow on to this thread.

 

After thinking about it the best way to tell this story is how I told it to our resident Opera performer "SingVoice". Now that I have had some time to sleep on it I have some proper perspective.:

 

I arrived downtown early because I had to drop a visiting relative off at the airport. I had sent her a message a couple days ago asking if I should dress formal or casual.

 

She sent back a message saying it's ok to dress casual. Enjoy the show. Have fun with your visiting relative... etc. Because it seems that we are back to the state of being just plain friends which is just fine by me. She seems to be decent good people and expanding my social network can't hurt. Who knows what the future will bring? She could introduce me to someone or change her own mind either way.

 

I said I was already in the general area and dressed thanks but I may see you there or after the show. No reply. I think she went offline and did not see that reply.

 

I saw the show and everything was great. It was everything I thought It would be and more.

 

This is key. I was in the first four rows not more than 10 yards away from her. At several points she made direct eye contact with me. She even waved at me as the curtain was dropping as the second act ended and she was hurrying off stage.

 

______

 

In fact a few rows ahead of me was a nice young lady who it turned out was a grad student at another campus of the same university as me.[/i] I decided to chat her up...good signals...this time I just outright asked if she was taken. She said yes.

 

I said "Oh well people don't believe me when I say that all the grad students at DePaul are taken... and when I talk to the undergrads I feel like a dirty santa." She chukeled. "I said well if you are ever not taken you know where to find me." She smiled and said "Sure... I was flattered."

 

______

I waited by the stage door at the advice of an old usher for her. "People do that all the time ask for autograph's or visit". Like it was not a big deal.

 

Everything seemed fine. After about half an hour she hadn't emerged yet unless I missed her. I was told by the guy at the velvet rope.

 

"It looks like whoever you were waiting for isn't coming so it's time for you to go."

 

I start to say "but I'm waiting for E..."

 

Then this man who does not know who I am from Adam... says" your not even supposed to be her you were specifically barred from backstage per her request."

 

I sent a FB message asking her if that guy was for real... or perhaps just aggressively trying to get me out of there because he wanted to go home or whatever.

 

I just wanted to say hello and congratulate her personally. A couple other members of the cast came back and had friendly conversation with me. People I know far far less than her.

 

I really wasn't dwelling on her at all...she says she's taken...that's life. I even hit on another woman there just to see if there was a opportunity for a date with someone who for all I knew was available until I asked her.

 

I sent E a message asking if what I was told was true and if it is she needs only say the word and i'll never bother her again.

 

I would really like your perspective on the situation. I am going to try to wait 24 hours to process this, and to hear from you before I follow up with the rest of the board.

 

 

:eek:I am just so shocked... for her disposition towards me to change so radically in the course of some hours. If what that security guard said was true.

 

I had such respect, and admiration for a beautiful and confident woman who I considered a real friend. Her coworkers even talked to me people I only knew via FB... Just what the heck.

_________________________

 

SingVoice shared with me her specific knowledge of this particular opera company. She pointed out that if that was true and she was in E's position she would not be sending me any kind of messages. She would leave by a different exit.

 

That it is not at all unlikely that particular security guard simply wanted to lock up and get the heck out of there.

 

Now that I think of it on the ticket it says that anyone can be ejected and will be given a refund if they even think you may cause a scene without explanation...

 

Here is what is really distressing about the whole situation.

 

I'm being a perfect gentleman and a good sport about the whole situation. I show up to demonstrate my good faith and true friendship and support to someone I knew as a platonic friend for quite some time. Then unless I was told the dammdest of lies I was treated like refuse...

 

The worst part by far is that I meet a nice young woman who goes to my uni. Goes to a different campus of my uni where I would never meet her. She's studying for a MS. We hit it off. It feels like fate and luck and the Gods are totally about to smile on me... and what SHE's TAKEN TOOO! WTH! Then I have to sit and watch this really romantic opera through an act filled with some of the more depressing lower energy songs. Beautifully sang and performed...the music and situation amplified eachother.

 

There are only three good things about yesterday.

 

1.)The actor who played Redd Foreman on that 70's show was there. I only realized who I saw after I saw him.

 

2.)Due to my personal feelings I was able to really really feel the emotions of the play. Unfortunately the negative ones...the heartbreak of Don Jose's fiancee in particular that song really got to me.

 

3.)After I left the stage door area I went into a nearby book store to use the restrooms. I happened into my little sister so I did not have to drive home alone.

 

I was and am still in a state of shock at what was said to me by that security guard plus the fact that a new person I met. A nice, educated, classy, obviously intelligent woman... the kind of meeting that could be fate... is taken.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[Eternal Sunshine]

That's a pretty extreme reaction on her part.

 

As an insight, we women can smell a man's romantic interest from mile away even when he is respectful and says that he wants to be friends.

 

She KNOWS that you are still interested in her in that way and felt the need to go out of her way to avoid you. Maybe she felt that even being friendly with you is leading you on or giving you the wrong idea.

[Eternal Sunshine]

BTW props to you for trying with that other girl.

 

That's the key, don't dwell on one and keep going.

[Cracker Jack]

I really hope she didn't request that. If so, that's....pretty silly. She most likely didn't. The security guy sounds like an asshat.

 

As for meeting the nice woman only to find out she's taken, I feel ya on the disappointment. I remember how that always seemed to happen to me (they were either taken or not into me) in the past.

 

On a positive note, it's good to see you pursuing a woman on the whim. I can't do that. Hopefully the next nice one you talk to will not be taken, and actually be down to get to know you.

[Mrlonelyone]

@Eternal Sunshine:

 

As for being able to "smell" romantic interest. I am not saying this about her...but women who think that may need to be more humble. If she smelled romantic interest in her..did she also smell my romantic interest in the woman sitting two rows in front of me who I met?

 

@Crackerjack:

 

The security guard may well have been being a jack ass. Who knows.

 

If you want to get a girlfriend you have to be able to approach and talk to the woman. Even if it's an awkward approach that only 1/100 women would go for...use it on 100 interesting women.

 

______

 

Still no word from her via the FB messages I sent. To add more intrigue. In the pre opera lecture there is by pure happenstance I think her mother sat next to me. I know her mother is a music teacher of some sort...so was this woman. This woman kind of looked like her too but I did not recognize right off. She did not seem to recognize me but we talked like old friends. :/ She might know me via E's FB wall.

 

I wish I had asked her name.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[Mrlonelyone]

No one else has anything to say?

[carhill]

My assessment is that inconsistencies equal unhealthiness. There's a really strong chance that her 'friendliness' is not really what it appears to be, at least on a personal level.

 

Kudo's for chatting up the seatmate. Plenty more of that dynamic to mine. Glad you enjoyed the show. Rinse and repeat as affordable.

 

One last question: Have you ever formally 'hit on her'? Or, has your attention been polite, friendly and non-sexual?

[Mrlonelyone]

Sure. We have had flirty sexual talk outside of the context of the pole dancing class (where we had full body contact over clothes).

 

What you say about inconsistencies is probably right. I'm so sad to say that I had noticed signs of trouble within her...yet I was willing to try. Nobody's perfect.

 

Still no reply to my last FB message about weather that old security guard was telling the truth.

 

Like I said "{insert melodramatic overreaction to a man showing interest here}"...seems to be what women are on these days.

 

As for chatting up the seatmate...thanks for the advice.

 

Could you clarify what you mean by this? I think there is something I'm not getting.

 

There's a really strong chance that her 'friendliness' is not really what it appears to be, at least on a personal level.

[Survivor12]

I just finished looking over your former posts. In each one, you ask about whether or not to do something that some people advised you could potentially be taken as too aggressive or even "stalkerish", and you chose not to heed their advice. While, individually, the flowers, messages, VD date proposal, and visit to the opera may not be too significant, the fact that you did all these things even though: a) you'd not even been on a date & b) she told you that she had a boyfriend.

 

Frankly, I, too, suspect that the boyfriend doesn't exist. I think she told you that as a way of letting you down easy when she realized that you were interested in more than friendship. Unfortunately, when she saw that wasn't enough to discourage your pursuit, she gave up being "nice" about it.

 

"She pointed out that if that was true and she was in E's position she would not be sending me any kind of messages. She would leave by a different exit."

 

Leaving by a different exit would not accomplish what she wanted to do--She wanted to make a point of letting you know that she didn't want to see you! Yes, perhaps it would have been "nicer" if she had told you face-to-face that she wasn't interested and that she would prefer if you would leave her alone, but since it hadn't worked before (you didn't GET it when she told you about the bf or when she didn't respond to your suggestion that you meet after the opera), she decided to let the doorman deliver the message.

 

"I just wanted to say hello and congratulate her personally. A couple other members of the cast came back and had friendly conversation with me. People I know far far less than her.

 

Being friendly and being a friend are two different things, and those people have no reason to feel threatened by you. Apparently, she feels that she does. I really wasn't dwelling on her at all...she says she's taken...that's life. I even hit on another woman there just to see if there was a opportunity for a date with someone who for all I knew was available until I asked her."

 

Your actions since she said she was taken does not say that, and she has NO way of knowing that you were hitting on anyone else.

 

Look, regardless of what you intend or want, it seems pretty obvious that she doesn't share your view of your "friendship" and isn't interested in explaining herself further. I urge you to not attempt to contact her again.

[carhill]

Could you clarify what you mean by this? I think there is something I'm not getting.

 

Here's an example of one potential from my life

 

In your situation, this potential plays out as one more interested (and attractive) person in her audience giving her attention and paying the bills. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, from her perspective. Her lack of personal contact after and since the show is her boundary. I would expect that, with the passage of time, she'll become in contact again, and have perfectly plausible 'reasons' for her behavior. This is common. Over time, if you spend time around people, you can pick up on their behavior patterns. Look for commonalities. By examining the nuances, it becomes easier to separate out genuine friendliness or romantic interest from 'other'. I actually learned a lot about this from the ladies here on LS.

 

IMO, continue on, accepting whatever comes of this 'friendship' and, as the cliche goes, keep your options open

[Mrlonelyone]

I just finished looking over your former posts. In each one, you ask about whether or not to do something that some people advised you could potentially be taken as too aggressive or even "stalkerish", and you chose not to heed their advice. While, individually, the flowers, messages, VD date proposal, and visit to the opera may not be too significant, the fact that you did all these things even though: a) you'd not even been on a date & b) she told you that she had a boyfriend.

 

I did not propose a date on valentines day. I sent her one single flower on V day.

 

She proposed that I should attend the dress rehersal of the Opera in question. She volunteered that.

 

We had not be on official "dates"... but we had spent allot of time together equal to several dates.

 

Frankly, I, too, suspect that the boyfriend doesn't exist. I think she told you that as a way of letting you down easy when she realized that you were interested in more than friendship. Unfortunately, when she saw that wasn't enough to discourage your pursuit, she gave up being "nice" about it.

 

That's very possible. I just don't see how simply going to her opera equals being interested in more than friendship.

 

 

"She pointed out that if that was true and she was in E's position she would not be sending me any kind of messages. She would leave by a different exit."

 

Leaving by a different exit would not accomplish what she wanted to do--She wanted to make a point of letting you know that she didn't want to see you! Yes, perhaps it would have been "nicer" if she had told you face-to-face that she wasn't interested and that she would prefer if you would leave her alone, but since it hadn't worked before (you didn't GET it when she told you about the bf or when she didn't respond to your suggestion that you meet after the opera), she decided to let the doorman deliver the message.

 

How does all of that mesh with her making repeated eye contact with me from the stage, smiling and waving as act two ended? I even caught her looking in my direction when the rest of the cast was looking in the other direction.

 

I had seats only three rows from the front and a really good sight line. In fact....

 

This is a picture I took in the theatre from where I was sitting.

 

I admit that what you say above is quite possible. I did not suggest meeting after the opera as a firm plan. I said maybe I'll see you'll see me latter... we'll see.

 

 

"I just wanted to say hello and congratulate her personally. A couple other members of the cast came back and had friendly conversation with me. People I know far far less than her.

 

Being friendly and being a friend are two different things, and those people have no reason to feel threatened by you. Apparently, she feels that she does. I really wasn't dwelling on her at all...she says she's taken...that's life. I even hit on another woman there just to see if there was a opportunity for a date with someone who for all I knew was available until I asked her."

 

She's pretty tight with the rest of the cast. If she had a real problem with me I think one of them would have said something...or acted hostile. i.e. The guy who played the torreador Escamillio and I had a good long talk.

 

 

Your actions since she said she was taken does not say that, and she has NO way of knowing that you were hitting on anyone else.

 

Look, regardless of what you intend or want, it seems pretty obvious that she doesn't share your view of your "friendship" and isn't interested in explaining herself further. I urge you to not attempt to contact her again.

 

I have no plans on contacting her since the message I sent yesterday. She will need to get back to me. If not like I said that's life.

 

As for my actions and what they say....

 

If going to see a performance of an opera that the performer practically begged me to see...

 

if sending someone perhaps one or two messages a week on average...

 

if merely indicating interest once then backing off to friend distance... is see as anything more than being mature about things

 

Frankly that's their problem not mine.

 

I think that the door man is full of crap is just as viable a option as what you said.

[Mrlonelyone]

Here's an example of one potential from my life

 

In your situation, this potential plays out as one more interested (and attractive) person in her audience giving her attention and paying the bills. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, from her perspective. Her lack of personal contact after and since the show is her boundary. I would expect that, with the passage of time, she'll become in contact again, and have perfectly plausible 'reasons' for her behavior. This is common. Over time, if you spend time around people, you can pick up on their behavior patterns. Look for commonalities. By examining the nuances, it becomes easier to separate out genuine friendliness or romantic interest from 'other'. I actually learned a lot about this from the ladies here on LS.

 

IMO, continue on, accepting whatever comes of this 'friendship' and, as the cliche goes, keep your options open

 

Your advice on this is appreciated and wise my friend. Here is where I look a the state of this situation.

 

I think there is a 25% chance that what you just said is true. There is a 50% chance that what SingVoice told me in a PM is true.

 

Ok...so I think based on my experiences from the {Opera company} that they were probably just trying to get rid of you. There are A LOT of people who come through the stage door...dancers...singers...costumers...etc. So to be honest...they probably didnt even know who she was exactly. And if she didn't want to see you...she probably would have just left another way. If she REALLY went to all that trouble to get rid of you...then I doubt that she would EVER text you back or contact you EVER...ya know?

 

There is a 25% chance it's something none of us thought of at all.

 

At any rate for now this is what I am going to do

 

 

I think just see what her reaction is...and if she doesnt respond...seriously...just don't follow up anymore. ...but just see what she says and keep me posted.

 

I have done everything a reasonable person could be expected to do.

[Survivor12]

"I did not propose a date on valentines day. I sent her one single flower on V day."

 

I was referring to the fact that you were asking for opinions about it. ("First date on Valentines day or is V day more for established couples?") Even so, you sent a flower & "a little teddy bear" on VD indicating that you were interested in more than friendship. (By the way, why didn't you have the date as planned?)

 

"but we had spent allot of time together equal to several dates"

 

This is where you are misleading yourself...spending time together does NOT equal a DATE. Although you may think so, she most likely doesn't.

 

"That's very possible. I just don't see how simply going to her opera equals being interested in more than friendship."

 

As I said before, in and of itself, it doesn't, but you already showed her that you were interested in more. Besides, you met her at a dance class then attended the opera (something you admit you'd never done before) to see her, contacted her before the show began mentioning meeting up afterward, and when she did not reply, you proceeded to try to see her anyway.

 

"How does all of that mesh with her making repeated eye contact with me from the stage, smiling and waving as act two ended? I even caught her looking in my direction when the rest of the cast was looking in the other direction."

 

You were at a distance. Your being in the audience wasn't the same as being in her personal space. You hadn't yet attempted to see her backstage so it's possible that she was simply being friendly hoping that you'd enjoyed the show and would be leaving when it was over.

"I think that the door man is full of crap is just as viable a option as what you said."

 

If so, it seems to me that she would have responded to your message asking about him.

 

Look, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm honestly trying to help you face and accept the fact that regardless of how YOU see it, you need to let it (her) go, but it seems that you refuse to even entertain the possibility. Like her, I give up.

[Mrlonelyone]

The thing is Survivor your help is not requiered. I had let it go.. a long time ago. I guess she hadn't.

 

Yes ok I would have liked it if she showed romantic interest...but I really wasn't dwelling. In fact my going with the idea of romantic interest settled in the negative would signify that my interest in her and what she did was genuine. Perhaps she feels like crap for thinking otherwise? Who knows?

 

I simply updated everyone on what happened when I did go. I thought they would like to see the resolution of this chapter. Understand?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Don't be so defensive. Listen to what survivor is saying.

 

I read your past threads on this situation and your actions are almost borderline stalkerish. Sending flowers and a teddy to someone you are not dating indicates VERY STRONG romantic interest.

 

As for her being able to "smell" you chatting up other girls, she hasn't seen it, has no idea it happened. She can only smell it in your interactions with her because it concerns her directly.

 

IF the guard was BS-ing you - she would be quick to respond to your message and explain herself. She didn't do that.

 

Just learn from this and don't come on as strong in the future.

[Mrlonelyone]

I am not being defensive. I was just telling Survivor that I have "let it go". I let it go a long time ago. Remember V day was almost six weeks ago now.

 

I guess it does not seem that long to her.

 

As for her not replying. Even before I sent that she did not reply to me right away. People she knew would write on her wall and not get a reply for days and days. She's not a HUGE FB person who's on all the time. Don't over interpret that.

 

As for that being stalkerish... I am only reminded of this story... "Some Inspiration for frustrated singles".

[fishtaco]

Agree with carhill. Inconsistencies, while it's something as common as clouds in the sky, is a bad sign. The more extreme the inconsistencies, and the more frequent it happens, the more psycho the woman is. I've found that to be an excellent measuring stick.

 

Oh and sending her flowers and teddy bears is a sucker move. Unless you're serious with each other already, don't go there.

 

I've had a strange experience too, similar to yours maybe. Awhile back I was contemplating on hitting on this cute girl. A bit chubby, but she has big boobs. And I found her sexy. Her smile, the way she dances, etc. So I was sending the vibe to test the waters. She flipped out. I didn't even ask her out yet. Then after that, I was like.. wow, that was unexpected. So I tried to back off into acquaintance mode. I made sure to engage her friends first to let her know I'm not about all her, I don't attempt to chat her up like how was your day, I didn't try to find out anything about her, nor display any interest in doing so. I was literally, in "hi-bye" acquaintance mode. She couldn't even do that. Every time she saw me, it was like she saw a ghost. Sometimes she'd walk right by me and pretended I wasn't even there.

 

So after making my "baseline" civilized politeness attempt for a bit, with no success, I gave up. I started ignoring her, basically act the same way she was acting toward me. Many months later, suddenly she started saying hi to me. It took me by surprise, but she also picked the worst time to say hi to me... while I was conversing with other attractive women. I was busy, plus I expected nothing from her, so I wasn't even sure if she was talking to me. So I kept ignoring her. First time was when I was talking to this really tall Russian girl with a killer body. I remember because I was like... was she trying to say hi to me?

 

After this happened a few times, I finally figured out she's trying to patch things up for whatever odd reason. So I started being friendly again. And she cranked it up another level, and would sit by me and act like she wanted to start a conversation. I made some small chit-chat, to be socially proper, but really, I've already lost interest in her. Now I just see a chubby girl. I don't even like her smile anymore. Then when she found out I was dating some girl (one of the girls I was multidating at the time), I felt like she beat a hasty retreat, and now she's in just acquaintance mode. Which I could care less because I've already lost interest in her. And her big flip-flop made me lose respect for her as well. I guess I would do her still. But how many people are surprised? Fat chicks are like scooters (just kidding... old joke).

 

I found this whole experience very strange.

[Mrlonelyone]

I sent one flower fishtaco. It cost me $20 plus 15 for delivery. It hardly broke me.

 

As for what you said about that being psycho, IF that doorman wasnt full of it, I don't know what conclusion to reach. I did nothing that would make a sane reasonable person flip from...saying hello and being, friendly, messaging me before the show, smiling directly at me from the stage (when she should not have been)... to what that doorman said. If he was telling me the truth then she would have to be Bipolar.

[Girlygirl1977]

I realize that you mentioned you let it go but it doesn't really seem that is the case. If you really let it go, you would not go to a peformance she was at and check ahead of time to see if you could see her. That's likely how she feels - you are still interested. The fact we are discussing it in so much detail gives me the impression you are. It is difficult to just switch off that interest unless you had much more time pass. You are still seeking more attention from her than she wants from you. That is no basis for any legitimate platonic friendship.

 

Letting it go - means just dropping out of site now (from her). For your well being I recommend this.

[Mrlonelyone]

I realize that you mentioned you let it go but it doesn't really seem that is the case. If you really let it go, you would not go to a peformance she was at and check ahead of time to see if you could see her.

 

I did not "check" in fact here is what I said verbatim.

 

"Thanks (In response to her reply to a message I sent on Tuesday asking how I should dress for the occasion.). I'm actually already in the area and dressed sort of..."professor like". You might see latter. "

 

"Might see latter".

 

That's not checking that's just a possibility which one could read as me being rather ambiguous about seeing her latter.

 

That's likely how she feels - you are still interested. The fact we are discussing it in so much detail gives me the impression you are. It is difficult to just switch off that interest unless you had much more time pass. You are still seeking more attention from her than she wants from you. That is no basis for any legitimate platonic friendship.

 

Letting it go - means just dropping out of site now (from her). For your well being I recommend this.

 

I am discussing it because I don't want to sit and let you all paint me as something I am not.

[fishtaco]

I sent one flower fishtaco. It cost me $20 plus 15 for delivery. It hardly broke me.

 

Well, I don't even buy women drinks. And I'm gainfully employed and make reasonable money. It's more about the methodology than how much it costs. But, that's a different topic I feel. And probably a controversial one, so I will say my way is my way, but not everyone agree with me, so we can agree to disagree.

 

As for what you said about that being psycho, IF that doorman wasnt full of it, I don't know what conclusion to reach. I did nothing that would make a sane reasonable person flip from...saying hello and being, friendly, messaging me before the show, smiling directly at me from the stage (when she should not have been)... to what that doorman said. If he was telling me the truth then she would have to be Bipolar.

 

This part, I absolutely agree with. I don't know about bipolar, but that's pretty extreme. I think it'd be best if you stayed away from her. The chubby girl in my example flipped out too. Who knows what's going on in their minds.

 

But general rule, stay away from psychos. That's pretty much a good rule to live by.

 

Think of it this way... at least you're not dating her.

[Mrlonelyone]

Think of it this way... at least you're not dating her.

 

Yeah. Taking things at face value one or both of us may be psycho huh. So one way or the other a bullet was dodged.

 

I may be a psycho stalker and/or she's bipolar.

[fishtaco]

Yeah. Taking things at face value one or both of us may be psycho huh. So one way or the other a bullet was dodged.

 

I may be a psycho stalker and/or she's bipolar.

 

Hahaha, I don't think you're a stalker. I just think sending flowers & teddy bears is at best an ineffective strategy.

[Mrlonelyone]

Hahaha, I don't think you're a stalker. I just think sending flowers & teddy bears is at best an ineffective strategy.

Remember I did not think sending that would make her like me. I thought she was available and already did.

 

I wanted to balance comming on too strong Vs. Not sending anything.... which could also be a mistake.

 

Suppose I sent nothing and things worked out the same...some would say it was because I sent nothing. IMHO I don't think that had anything to do with anything either way.

[fishtaco]

Remember I did not think sending that would make her like me. I thought she was available and already did.

 

I wanted to balance comming on too strong Vs. Not sending anything.... which could also be a mistake.

 

Suppose I sent nothing and things worked out the same...some would say it was because I sent nothing. IMHO I don't think that had anything to do with anything either way.

 

It's cool, that's just how I date. I only said that because I don't want you to think I'm calling you out as a stalker. I'm not. I'm simply disagreeing with your approach, which happens to be a personal preference thing.