RobD70 Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 if you think she's exhibiting concerning behavior now... just wait until after you're married. it's not likely to get better - you're in for quite the ride if you stay... YOU have a choice! my suggestion is to RUUUUUNNNN!!!!!!! there's no need for YOU to try to fix what is broken in her... find a healthy gal that doesn't need to party and play stupid when she cheats... by saying "i didn't know i did anything wrong?" SINCE she understands such low morals- and thinks nothing about her behavior "was wrong" - it's a good idea to let some other sap have what she's going to dish out in her lifetime. I concur with this. She has to want to be loyal on her own, not because it makes you happy. She is agreeing with all this now but once the dust settles she’ll slip back to her old ways. It’s just the type of person she is. If you marry her you will be in a world of hurt. She is not the marrying type and probably won’t be for several years. It will hurt at first but you would be MUCH better off finding someone else. The reality is the relationship doesn’t have much of a future, she in not going to magically mature with counseling.
NervisPervis Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 If this relationship is so important to you that you want to work on it, I have 2 words for you: Private Investigator. The chances of a committed woman going to a meat market for hours on end and her actions being something you would not have a problem with are almost zero. I wish I had some documentation from all of the nights my wife went out as her friends wingwoman. Now, I'll never know and our relationship will never be the same. Two nights a month is still too much. Like another poster said. Movies, dinner, coffee, long walks: fine. Meatmarkets? Not so much.
2long Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Clarification basically before this all happened she used to ahve 2 nights out without me GNO and staff drinks. GNO was originally a few hrs out drinking with the girls but occassionally would stay out too late and get too drunk. staff drinks was usually 1 or 2 beers after work with co-workers once veeyr couple of weeks. when things got bad GNO = big night out with girls every time, getting home 5am or later completely smashed. staff drinks went from once a fortnight to 2-3 times a week and often became 5 or 6 beers getting home at 2am usually drunk. Now she is committed to coming home straight after work and having 0 drinks and going to GNO once or twice a month and allowing me to know exactly where she is and who she is with and I pick her up and bring her home at a reasonable hour. So this was your last post about this? If it were me, and I didn't want 2 call off the wedding, I'd at least postpone it for a 2ple of years. Married people don't go drinking at bars with their friends and without their spouses. Particularly when caught having an EA before the wedding. Really, she's not ma2ure enough 2 get married. You've dodged a bullet, and should count your lucky stars instead of going ahead with the marriage. -ol' 2long
Author thatdog Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 I concur with this. She has to want to be loyal on her own, not because it makes you happy. She is agreeing with all this now but once the dust settles she’ll slip back to her old ways. It’s just the type of person she is. The thing is we have been together for three years and this has only come up now. So to me slipping 'back to her old ways' should mean she becomes and emotionally healthy and stable person again. 2long - that's pretty much what has happened. We are together again for the time being but I have taken back the engagement ring. I will keep it for a year and if we are still together then we can start talking about getting re-engaged. Memphis Raines - She doesn't drive but yes tbh i considered getting a gps/keylogger for her phone. maybe fortunately (it really does feel like the wrong thing to do) her phone appears to be too old for any of the programs i've read about to work. Things seem to be starting to get better already as well. She took some time off work and also missed one of her close friend's farewell parties (moving o/s) because the other guy was going to be there. She is going out on a GNO next weekend but has asked if i would like to drop her at the club and will only stay 3 hrs so I can pick her up again after.
NervisPervis Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 She is going out on a GNO next weekend but has asked if i would like to drop her at the club and will only stay 3 hrs so I can pick her up again after. I'm having a SERIOUS problem with this. After all you guys went through over the past few months, she still has a hankerin' to party at the meat markets? Why do you think girls go to meat markets for their nights out, instead of a movie and dinner or something? Because at a movie or dinner it wouldn't be three solid hours of strange men coming on to them, that's why. There would be no three hours of flirting. No three hours of closeness with different men all night. No three hours of "did you see how HOT he is"? No three hours of feeling desired by strange men. More than that even. 3 hours of hanging around men who want to screw her and have every reason to believe it's a possibility because of the atmosphere she's in. And she will NEVER tell you about what goes on during those nights. And how long before her toxic friend alerts the OM to her partying whereabouts some night just for jollies? I'm still offering those same two words from a couple of days ago: Private Investigator. You know where she'll (supposedly) be. You know when. It will be an easy gig for a PI. I can GUARANTEE her behavior at these places may not violate your terms to the letter, but it won't be good. Oh. And something I don't think anyone else added. The obvious. A cheater NEVER comes 100% clean in their me culpa. A LOT more went on between them than she's admitting to. Just the fact that you’re letting her go w.h.o.r.i.n.g again so soon after she was caught is letting her know she found herself a good doormat for the rest of her life. 3 Billion women in the world, man. Why this one?
Author thatdog Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 I'm having a SERIOUS problem with this. After all you guys went through over the past few months, she still has a hankerin' to party at the meat markets? Why do you think girls go to meat markets for their nights out, instead of a movie and dinner or something? Because at a movie or dinner it wouldn't be three solid hours of strange men coming on to them, that's why. There would be no three hours of flirting. No three hours of closeness with different men all night. No three hours of "did you see how HOT he is"? No three hours of feeling desired by strange men. More than that even. 3 hours of hanging around men who want to screw her and have every reason to believe it's a possibility because of the atmosphere she's in. And she will NEVER tell you about what goes on during those nights. And how long before her toxic friend alerts the OM to her partying whereabouts some night just for jollies? I'm still offering those same two words from a couple of days ago: Private Investigator. You know where she'll (supposedly) be. You know when. It will be an easy gig for a PI. I can GUARANTEE her behavior at these places may not violate your terms to the letter, but it won't be good. Oh. And something I don't think anyone else added. The obvious. A cheater NEVER comes 100% clean in their me culpa. A LOT more went on between them than she's admitting to. Just the fact that you’re letting her go w.h.o.r.i.n.g again so soon after she was caught is letting her know she found herself a good doormat for the rest of her life. 3 Billion women in the world, man. Why this one? 1- She is going to a gay club. 2- She works until 11pm so its too nlate to go to dinner/movies/etc (though I admit this doesn;t really matter. I think if she could quit that job she would be going out clubbing a lot less but would still want to do it sometimes) 3- P.I.s aren't cheap and I'm a student atm so it's pretty much off the table. 4- Out of 3 billion women this is the one I fell in love with . Also in 16 years of dating never met a girl who was so close to my 'perfect type'. right looks, right body, right temperament, same life plans, same moral standards (until this year apparently ), etc etc
NervisPervis Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 She is going to a gay club. That's right. You said that. My bad. Gay Club. Those bastions of wholesomeness and good clean fun. Where the patrons couns their number of casual sex partners in the hundreds, if not thousands. But hey. You're right. They're only giving each other BJ's in the mens room. And NONE of them are bi, or even straight looking for straight chicks like your wife. And, like you said, you both have the same moral standards..., or, uh, used to?... or something like that:confused: Yeah, she's a keeper all right.
NervisPervis Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 It's a good thing I'm looking out for you. I did a little research. It seems that a few women screw up and their men find out that bar hopping at meat markets insn't all that innocent. Plan B? "We're just going to a gay bar". There's a LOT of beef and raging testosterone at these places. This one's written for a gay crowd, but you get the point. "Is It OK To Take A Straight Girl To A Gay Bar?" http://gaylife.about.com/od/comingout/qt/girlgaybar.htm The money quote: "The benefit isn't all yours (gay wingman), either. I know many LGBT-friendly straight guys that have gay friends and frequent gay bars. If your BFF (your woman) has her eyes open, there might be a treat for her there as well. " A blog posting on straight girls at gay bars: http://sevitz.com/2005/07/so_what_are_you_straight_boys_doing_in_a_gay_bar “See i’ve heard that reason many times (that they don’t feel threatened at gay bars), but the girls didn’t look at all like they were there because they wanted less attention, but because they wanted more”. http://www.theattractionforums.com/general-discussion/105932-straight-girls-gay-bars.html Zero male competition -> no bitch sheild -> easy to open sets Last time I was in a gay club in January I spent the night making out with an 8. Time before that I ****ed a 7 in my car afterwards. She wanted to go for a "drive" apparently. I gave her the best ride of her life! There's a lot more. Search google. And good luck. That PI will be a LOT less expensive than divorcing this girl later.
2long Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 2long - that's pretty much what has happened. We are together again for the time being but I have taken back the engagement ring. I will keep it for a year and if we are still together then we can start talking about getting re-engaged. So now, the one tenuous level of commitment she still had with you - the engagement - is removed. This is really a big deal, you know. Problems like you just experienced are a helluva lot harder 2 deal with in a marriage. Or with kids. And this arrangement you've allowed doesn't bode well for the years ahead. When is she planning 2 act like an adult? Why are you living 2gether? I would let her go 2 her bars 2 her heart's content. But find something you like 2 do and make a regular thing of going there without her. It doesn't have 2 be a site for picking up chicks (better if it's not, ac2ally - you don't want 2 do 2 someone else what your GF is doing 2 you). Do you have a hobby? -ol' 2long
NervisPervis Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I'm a little more concerned about your well-being now than I am about making my point that clubbing SO's are a bad thing and that the stay-at-home spouse isn't allowed to question it. What do we know? 1- She had an emotional affair. She knew it was bad which is why she kept it from you. She lied during the affair and she lied when she told you she thought it was innocent 2 - She has a HUGE hankering to hang out in places where men are going to pour attention on her all night. Places where all of the men are there to get laid, and a good majority of the women. Yes, an affair "can happen" anywhere. That argument annoys me. Your not seeking some strange when you go to the grocery store. You are when you go clubbing. She is willingly (eagerly) putting herself in a position to make a "mistake". It will happen. It probably already has 3 - She tells you that instead of inappropriate partying at straight clubs, she's now going to gay bars. 15 minutes of google searching tells me that gay bars are HARDLY the innocent alternative to straight bars. Clubbing is her thing right now. I think she knows what type of an alternative the gay bars are, so she's lying to you by keeping up the facade that she just loves to dance. And how long before you get "we just got SO TIRED of the gay bar scene we just had to go to this other place". She tells you that from her cell at 5:00 in the morning after they went to her "friend's house" to hang out because they were all too drunk to drive home. 4 - She lives with you. She's young. What happens if she tells you "I don't think I love you any more". You separate and where does she go? Nowhere. She's screwed without you. She needs you. May even love you, I don't know. I'm not sure she does. Being the wimpey little whiner you've been lately sure hasn't helped. But I fear you aren't going to get a slow break-up. She's going to find someone, get her ducks in a row, and be out the door, all safe and sound, as your life crashes around you. I had to deal with this when we were married and I had 2 small children at home. My choices were limited. I had to stay. I'm still not over it and neither is my wife. Here we are years later and I'm still obsessing over it on relationship forums and my wife is stuck with someone she doesn't love. You don't realize how easy your choices are until they aren't an option any longer. Leaving this woman seems like it is the hardest thing in the world right now. But you have to trust me and all of the other people who have said the same thing. It gets a lot tougher when a wedding ring and kids are in the picture. And I've got nothing against your girl. I'm sure she's wonderful. But you guys are NOT compatible. How many more times are you willing to lie awake at night wondering where she is? Who she's with? Who she's flirting with? Who she's partying with? When will she be home? It didn't go on long for me. My wife made some mistakes early and we put an end to it. But I know it's not fun for you. Get out while you can.
Author thatdog Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 I'm a little more concerned about your well-being now than I am about making my point that clubbing SO's are a bad thing and that the stay-at-home spouse isn't allowed to question it. What do we know? 1- She had an emotional affair. She knew it was bad which is why she kept it from you. She lied during the affair and she lied when she told you she thought it was innocent 2 - She has a HUGE hankering to hang out in places where men are going to pour attention on her all night. Places where all of the men are there to get laid, and a good majority of the women. Yes, an affair "can happen" anywhere. That argument annoys me. Your not seeking some strange when you go to the grocery store. You are when you go clubbing. She is willingly (eagerly) putting herself in a position to make a "mistake". It will happen. It probably already has 3 - She tells you that instead of inappropriate partying at straight clubs, she's now going to gay bars. 15 minutes of google searching tells me that gay bars are HARDLY the innocent alternative to straight bars. Clubbing is her thing right now. I think she knows what type of an alternative the gay bars are, so she's lying to you by keeping up the facade that she just loves to dance. And how long before you get "we just got SO TIRED of the gay bar scene we just had to go to this other place". She tells you that from her cell at 5:00 in the morning after they went to her "friend's house" to hang out because they were all too drunk to drive home. 4 - She lives with you. She's young. What happens if she tells you "I don't think I love you any more". You separate and where does she go? Nowhere. She's screwed without you. She needs you. May even love you, I don't know. I'm not sure she does. Being the wimpey little whiner you've been lately sure hasn't helped. But I fear you aren't going to get a slow break-up. She's going to find someone, get her ducks in a row, and be out the door, all safe and sound, as your life crashes around you. I had to deal with this when we were married and I had 2 small children at home. My choices were limited. I had to stay. I'm still not over it and neither is my wife. Here we are years later and I'm still obsessing over it on relationship forums and my wife is stuck with someone she doesn't love. You don't realize how easy your choices are until they aren't an option any longer. Leaving this woman seems like it is the hardest thing in the world right now. But you have to trust me and all of the other people who have said the same thing. It gets a lot tougher when a wedding ring and kids are in the picture. And I've got nothing against your girl. I'm sure she's wonderful. But you guys are NOT compatible. How many more times are you willing to lie awake at night wondering where she is? Who she's with? Who she's flirting with? Who she's partying with? When will she be home? It didn't go on long for me. My wife made some mistakes early and we put an end to it. But I know it's not fun for you. Get out while you can. Thanks. Some more stuff came up at counseling today that has me thinking maybe less positively but i think more assertively at least. The problem with her having potential financial difficulties and nowhere to stay if this ended has the same ramifications for me as well unfortunately. As I am currently a student again (went back to finish my law degree in large part so I could get a proper career to support us when we got married), she makes more than me at the moment (though that is also going to change shortly as she is going back to study too). point is We are both on the lease here and neither of us could come close to affording the rent by ourselves. ok so first the going out thing as discussed in counselling today. she wants to a- go out dancing with her female friends sometimes. She is willing to limit the amount of time she stays out, let me drop her off and pick her up at pre-arranged times, and will endeavour to cut back on her drinking while she is out. b- Given that the standard at her waitressing job (where the OM works) is to go out for staff drinks/dinner after work and she has been a part of that since she started, she still has lots of other friends there, and nobody seems to know what was going on. She doesn't feel comfortable just ditching them and coming straight home as it will indicate something is wrong and get people talking (which they alreayd are cos she has taken 2 weeks of for no reason). So she want's to be able to still stay for ONE drink after work but not talk to OM and come home after 30min. This came up in counseling and the counselor supported her in say that if the relationship is to work I need to start trusting her again and trusting that she will do what she says and her intentions are true. So. My plan now is to let her do that, tell her I trust her BUT she has used her one and only get out of jail card. If ANYTHING goes wrong, she doesn't come home when she says, she isn't there when i come to pick her up, she is drunk when i pick her up from GNO, I drive past on my way home and see her speaking to OM, ANYTHING at all. Then she is out, she can collect her things in the morning, and all gifts I have given her in the past 3 year will be kept and pawned to pay her rent till the lease expires. This is not me being psycho or possessive or pathetic. This is me not being willing to put up with anymore poor treatment and not willing to sacrifice my pride or self esteem for someone who consciously or unconsciously keeps ****ing with my life. Yeah I know she could still be out ****ing around without me knowing but I can't afford a PI and if this relationship is really getting a second chance I have to learn to trust her anyhow. Only thing I am unsure about is whether I should tell her all or any of this to her face or if it will generate too much tension and I'm better off just being confident of the fact that I have and will stand by my decision from here on in if anything else happens.
ComputerJock Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 It sounds like you are getting your head back on right. If she doesn't toe the line you have laid out, you already know what actions you will take, and they won't be actions taken in haste, but due to her failure to keep you as her number one man. Good luck.
Memphis Raines Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) 1- She is going to a gay club. first of all, so? second of all, you know for a fact that is where she is and they NEVER migrate over to a straight club? you follow her? the more I read your posts, the more its clear that you are wanting desperately to excuse her behavior and will try to justify it in your mind so that you can look the other way. You are even going to let her continue the activities that are a big problem in the first place. her actions and behaviors are that of someone who isn't, or doesn't want to be, in a committed relationship. So she is still going to exhibit disrespectful behaviors, it just gonna be a little less? if you were married, that would be called being cuckolded. Edited April 14, 2011 by Memphis Raines
Memphis Raines Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 ok, bottom line is this 1. i'd bet good money she has cheated in one way or another 2. she knows that you are uncomfortable with her adolescent activities and the reasons why, but she continues to do it anyway and still expects to act like she isn't in a committed relationship.....and you are going to allow this. basically she has been caught with her hand in the cookie jar, and still wants to do something that is disrespectful to you. She doesn't care about your feelings and isn't fit for marriage. 3. if she likes the night life so much, then she aint gonna like marriage one bit. but my guess is she thinks she can still act single once you are married. dude, you do what you want, but I can guarantee you, if you marry this girl, you will never be at peace and will simply be the husband of a disrespectful, and yes, cheating wife.
drifter777 Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 So. My plan now is to let her do that, tell her I trust her BUT she has used her one and only get out of jail card. If ANYTHING goes wrong, she doesn't come home when she says, she isn't there when i come to pick her up, she is drunk when i pick her up from GNO, I drive past on my way home and see her speaking to OM, ANYTHING at all. Then she is out, she can collect her things in the morning, and all gifts I have given her in the past 3 year will be kept and pawned to pay her rent till the lease expires. This is not me being psycho or possessive or pathetic. This is me not being willing to put up with anymore poor treatment and not willing to sacrifice my pride or self esteem for someone who consciously or unconsciously keeps ****ing with my life. Yeah I know she could still be out ****ing around without me knowing but I can't afford a PI and if this relationship is really getting a second chance I have to learn to trust her anyhow. Only thing I am unsure about is whether I should tell her all or any of this to her face or if it will generate too much tension and I'm better off just being confident of the fact that I have and will stand by my decision from here on in if anything else happens. So this is your plan but you aren't going to tell her about it? You say you aren't willing to sacrifice your "pride or self esteem" for someone who treats you the way she treats you (but you already have and continue to do so)? How naive and gutless can one man be? After reading this thread and other posts you have made I am not so sure this all isn't just a bunch of bull--- you concocted just for your own amusement. If this is all true than you are hopeless and totally unwilling to accept any feedback on this forum so you should stop posting. If it is just your way of having fun, then shame on you!
NervisPervis Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 OK. PI is out. I disagree, but I'm not going to tilt at windmills. - A friend of yours that she doesn't know that could spy and report back? Even come on to her had see how she reacts? - How about reverse spying? Go with her one night. Not on her GNO. That's interfering. But if she's going to go to these places, you want to see what it's like. Have her take you and show you what all of the fun is. Bring just one or two of her friends. You're giving her an extra night, you just want to ba a part of it for once. You may think that it won't work in that she's not going to be a s.l.u.t while your there, and you're right. But half of an hour of blasting music and her ball-and-chain cramping her style (that's you), it will become plainfully obvious to everyone that this place is miserable w/o the w.h.o.r.i.n.g. She will have to admit the obvious. Look: Between school, work, her after-work activities, sleeping and fighting about this, you guys don't spend much quality time together. How much quality time does she spen with you vs. with others? Don't answer. I'm guessing your relationship is like mine, only I'm a lot older. And married, so I don't have the choices you have. And my wife, who's still with me by a thread, doesn't have the choices your newly ex-fiance has. Think about that more than anything.
2long Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 This came up in counseling and the counselor supported her in say that if the relationship is to work I need to start trusting her again and trusting that she will do what she says and her intentions are true. Fire the counselor! Unless they explained 2 your GF what it will take for you 2 start trusting her again (or you did). She's demonstrated that she shouldn't be trusted. You do need 2 be able 2 trust one another in order 2 have a chance at a happy married life 2gether. So, what are her marching orders 2 convince you that she's now trustworthy? Trust after a betrayal like this requires time and extraordinary precautions be taken 2 ensure that it won't happen again, like 1) get away from OM (if one of them has 2 quit, then so be it); and 2) stop doing the thing that got her in2 trouble in the first place. Have you drop her off for her bar stints where the OM will also be, and pick her up three hours later? How is that a relationship between the 2 of you?? If you're not in2 the bar/dancing/drinking scene and she is, then you're not compatible. You both have choices. You can and should be able 2 lead the lives you want 2 lead. But creating a committed relationship, especially a marriage, will likely require a few sacrifices on the part of each of you. You certainly wouldn't want 2 keep doing things that she doesn't like (or HURT her), so why would you agree 2 let her continue 2 do something that makes you suspicious of her and further damages your trust in her? You can't make her choices for her, but you have every right 2 set standards for yourself and the relationship you deserve. She wants 2 go out drinking and dancing without you. You should let her have that choice, but don't forget your own standards, and face the likelihood that this relationship isn't a real relationship, but a simple friendship (with you on the back burner after her "nights out"). -ol' 2long
Author thatdog Posted April 15, 2011 Author Posted April 15, 2011 Nervis Pervis - Since this came to a head and we started working on things we do actually have a fair amount of quality time together. We go out once or twice a week and spend probably 2-3 hrs a day relaxing together and talking/etc. -I'd be keen to try the idea of having a friend check up on her but unfortunately she actually knows pretty much all of my good friends and most of them are married now and don't go out clubbing very often anymore. -I checked your original thread about your situation from last year. It DOES sound quite similar to mine but I would have a tendency to put more wait on the argument of those posters from your thread that said girls do sometime like to go out just to dance. TBH I used to do the same thing and sometime wish I still could, but all my dancing friends have stopped going out or moved to other towns. I used to go out till anywhere up to 10am (in my college days) and never looked at another girl while I was out. It's a shame that one of the few things my gf and I don't have in common is taste in music. I always went to dance parties and clubs that played techno/hardcore/etc where she has always been into Rnb and Hiphop (unfortunately the type of music predominately played in 'meat-markets'). - Can I ask what ended up happening in your situation? your thread on here seemed to end a little abruptly. did you find out what was going on? did she try to go out more without you? does she still try? 2long - Yeah the counselor also explained to her what it would probably take for me to get my trust back, and what was required of her. My gf said she understood and as such she realizes why it is reasonable for her to be expected to maintain as much NC as possible with OM and is prepared to do that. But that she is also feeling very uncomfortable and apprehensive of how things will go down at work if she suddenly does a complete 180 in her behavior towards everyone. Quitting is unfortunately not an option as I can't make the OM quit and I can't afford to support her while she looks for another job. (she will be quitting anyhow in about 2 months when she goes back to college). - As mentioned before OM was at her work, not at GNO. Yes I am aware she could be meeting him there in secret but that could be happening any time I am not around so I think it's more important to know that she can do what she likes but my boundaries are set, she is aware of them, and any crossing of those will result in the end of our relationship and her coming home to find locks changed and all her stuff in the street.
2sunny Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 the ONLY reason i went out to bars when i was younger, but seeing a guy, was to check out the men to see if there was anyone there that may be a better prospect than the guy i was dating. she's doing the same thing. she's never going to tell YOU that... is that good enough for you?
NervisPervis Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) -I checked your original thread about your situation from last year. It DOES sound quite similar to mine but I would have a tendency to put more wait on the argument of those posters from your thread that said girls do sometime like to go out just to dance. I came to these forums (this is just one of many) looking to prove that I wasn't just paranoid. Every night she went out I had a knot in my gut the whole time. I was a mess. It was always Saturday night, so starting Saturday morning, I would wonder if this was going to be one of those nights. Did she already have plans but just not tell me yet? It killed me every Saturday. But what kind of a neanderthal would have a problem with his wife letting off a little steam every now and then, right? So I sucked it up but wouldn't say anything. Many women on these forums defended their clubbing lifestyles. But they would tell their husbands where they were going. Who they would be with (usually a group of them, not just a girl and her wingwoman). They set groundrules on acceptable behavior when out. How they planned on getting home safely. And they discussed their evenings when they returned. Yes, they all went to dance (I guess). But they acted differently around their husbands than my wife did. Women who acted the way my wife did admitted they were usually up to no good. My wife slipped out at the last minute, literally as she was walking out the door with her purse slung over her shoulder so I had no time to ask questions. I had no idea where she was going: "going dancing, see you later". Always with the same wingwoman (sorry, friend). Just the two of them every time. Wouldn't tell me where she went when she came home. Any questions beyond "where did you go", and "did you have fun" were met with sketchy answers and evasion, so getting to get to the real answers would require me interrogating her. She was sneaky and secretive, in other words. Looking back on it today, I don't know how I allowed it. Even some women who went out with the best of intentions admitted that their behavior, in hindsight, wasn't all that appropriate for a committed relationship. Many admitted to even full fledged physical infidelity while out. A "mistake" they regretted. - Can I ask what ended up happening in your situation? your thread on here seemed to end a little abruptly. did you find out what was going on? did she try to go out more without you? does she still try? I married a woman who showed no interest in clubbing for the 3 years we dated/were engaged and the first 7 years we were married. It came out of the blue. Hit me like a hammer. I was lost. had no idea how to handle it. It didn't last long. Only 6 months or so. Like I said earlier, she screwed up. For some reason I can't fathom to this day, she exchanged home phone numbers with some guy she hooked up with. I answered when he called to set up a date. She actually called him back and made plans. You see, it was all SO INNOCENT she could do that. I hit the roof. She saw that I wasn't going to put up with the whole "it's just innocent dancing" thing any more. She knew better than to try any more. We had one fight and that was it. It all actually happened quite a few years ago. It was hard enough coming on forums and admitting I had a problem with something so juvenile, let alone that I couldn't get over it after so many years. I chose to write my posts as though it was going on at the time. Didn't even invite the "get over it already, man" replies. I supressed it for years until I had to come on these forums and sort it all out. Get closure. Someone said it earlier. Clubbers aren't compatible with non-clubbers. If she didn't stop, we'd be divorced by now. Maybe you're different. Maybe she is as well. Look, nobody knows your relationship better than you do. Take all of this advice from everyone with a grain of salt. I'm on a crusade to tell men that it's OK to question your SO about their clubbing exploits. It's OK to say no. Frequent late clubbing for a committed partner is a recipe for disaster, even if there are the purest of intentions. If there's even a TINY desire for some strange, she WILL find it. Good luck and keep us posted. N Pervis Edited April 15, 2011 by NervisPervis spelling
jnj express Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Hey TD----what is it with you----tell me WHY---your alleged GF---needs to go on GNO, and/or stay after work to have a drink If you both are into each other she wouldn't have any need for GNO---once again she can see her friends for daytime activities, where there is no possibility of her getting in harms way---Gay clubs are just as deadly as straight clubs, and YOU KNOW IT--- ----billions of people all over this planet go to work, and when done with work, they go home---why does your GF---need to stay and have even ONE drink---she is with those people for 8 hours that's enuff time to talk about anything that needs to be said---staying after with them, is plain socializing, and since she is in a committed relationship---that is inappropriate BUT---IN ALL ACTUALITY---WHAT IS THE STATUS OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP-----If you are just living together, and not serious, why are you giving her boundaries at all----Let her be totally free and see what she actually does on her own, without you playing prison guard/chaperone---if she wants this to work out she will do it on her own---you arn't getting married at this point, so what really is the status of the 2 of you---right now it seems, you are her parole officer, and she is your parolee
Author thatdog Posted April 15, 2011 Author Posted April 15, 2011 ----billions of people all over this planet go to work, and when done with work, they go home---why does your GF---need to stay and have even ONE drink---she is with those people for 8 hours that's enuff time to talk about anything that needs to be said---staying after with them, is plain socializing, and since she is in a committed relationship---that is inappropriate BUT---IN ALL ACTUALITY---WHAT IS THE STATUS OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP-----If you are just living together, and not serious, why are you giving her boundaries at all----Let her be totally free and see what she actually does on her own, without you playing prison guard/chaperone---if she wants this to work out she will do it on her own---you arn't getting married at this point, so what really is the status of the 2 of you---right now it seems, you are her parole officer, and she is your parolee She is my GF. we are still close. She has spent the past two years working at this restaurant and staying after for staff dinner/drink and a little socializing. She did this at first with my blessing and in fact encouragement as she felt like and outsider coming home straight after work all the time whilst the rest of the staff stayed and had dinner/chatted/etc. When it was staying for staff dinner and maybe 1 drink I was fine with it. obviosuly it developed to more than that. I with her though that as she has always been staying after and now has suddenly taken 2 weeks off without cause, if she completely changes her behavior (ie doesn't stay after at all) people will start talking and it will make her life there much more difficult. I am fine with her socializing with her friends WITHIN REASON and have told her as such. exactly what I believe to be reasonable and what I believe to be a dealbreaker in this relationship. I feel a little like a warden at this point too. Whilst I don't blame myself for what happened I do acknoweldge the situation now is partly my fault as i initially allowed her to do all these things whjen it was within reason but as she pushed the boundaries and things started to get out of hand I was too weak/naive/stupid to put my foot down and point out she was starting to do a few innapropriate things. As such so much time has gone by with me allowing certain things that should have been happening the acceptable boundaries of OUR relationship (all relationships are going to be somewhat different to an extent), it's a bit blurred as to what I will accept from her. therefore I told her. she now knows what I am k with and what I view as a dealbreaker. She is lucky I am giving her another chance with me after hwat happened but this is her ONLY chance. she can do whatever she likes from now on but she is 100% aware of the things I will no longer tolerate and will result in the end of the relationship.
jnj express Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 TD---please stop with the excuses for your GF-----at work---she goes there to work---that's it---ITS NOT A SOCIAL CLUB---when her shift is over---she comes home---like most of the rest of the world---who cares whether the rest of her workmates like it if she stays or not---they are not gonna climb her case if she doesn't stay after work and drink---which is horrible precedent and needs to be stopped---unless she were of course single, and on her own Once again as to her GF's---she can see them for dinner IN A RESTAURANT--go to movies, sporting events, hobbies---things like that---IN A COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP---she does not go clubbing, or bar hopping AT ALL EVER unless it is with you, and you only
2sunny Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 She is my GF. we are still close. She has spent the past two years working at this restaurant and staying after for staff dinner/drink and a little socializing. She did this at first with my blessing and in fact encouragement as she felt like and outsider coming home straight after work all the time whilst the rest of the staff stayed and had dinner/chatted/etc. When it was staying for staff dinner and maybe 1 drink I was fine with it. obviosuly it developed to more than that. I with her though that as she has always been staying after and now has suddenly taken 2 weeks off without cause, if she completely changes her behavior (ie doesn't stay after at all) people will start talking and it will make her life there much more difficult. I am fine with her socializing with her friends WITHIN REASON and have told her as such. exactly what I believe to be reasonable and what I believe to be a dealbreaker in this relationship. I feel a little like a warden at this point too. Whilst I don't blame myself for what happened I do acknoweldge the situation now is partly my fault as i initially allowed her to do all these things whjen it was within reason but as she pushed the boundaries and things started to get out of hand I was too weak/naive/stupid to put my foot down and point out she was starting to do a few innapropriate things. As such so much time has gone by with me allowing certain things that should have been happening the acceptable boundaries of OUR relationship (all relationships are going to be somewhat different to an extent), it's a bit blurred as to what I will accept from her. therefore I told her. she now knows what I am k with and what I view as a dealbreaker. She is lucky I am giving her another chance with me after hwat happened but this is her ONLY chance. she can do whatever she likes from now on but she is 100% aware of the things I will no longer tolerate and will result in the end of the relationship. it's only a job. she can get another job that doesn't involve anything but work. when i am at work - i work. when i am not at work - i enjoy MY time with my friends and family. SHE hasn't separated the two. intermingling both is always troublesome. since she seems to have the two intermingled - it's best to start fresh. new job. YOU forcing her to do anything is bound to look awful, at best. if she wants that life/lifestyle and YOU don't - it's best to let her go - knowing that her lifestyle is not YOUR first choice. she will DO what she wants... YOU need to DO what's best for YOU - no matter what she's doing or not doing. wasting time and energy trying to make her be something she's not is not good use of positive energy or your time.
Author thatdog Posted April 16, 2011 Author Posted April 16, 2011 So tonight is the night she was supposed to have GNO at the gay bar. She gets home form work and I ask when she will be ready and want her lift. She says not to worry bout that cos her friend is tired so they will go to another bar just round the corner from our place. I say cool, in that case u mind if i take a break from study and pop in for a beer some. She asks when and i tell her idk i guess just when I feel I really need a break. yeah I know this is stupid but the sudden change in plans has me vaguely paranoid (though she must be retarded to think she can try and change plans last minute to a bar 50meters away and not expect me to consider tagging along). So who thinks this is some kind of ruse? should I go? Immediatey? wait an hr, 2hrs, what?
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