Frank13 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 blah blah blah. a women that is in love doesnt even notice other men. a women in love would not have an affair, emotional, or otherwise because she is only interested you. that is it...she cared about him...probably more than she cared at you at that point. You can shine it up with all the psychology you can muster. I agree with Whammy. I for the life of me can't understand how people like thatdog get kicked in the @ss and then make up excuses and BS as to why it happened and even after agreeing to separate, they do it to see how they feel in a few months. For christ sake she just isn't that in to you. Screw the conseling and all the smoke and mirrors BS. You aren't the one for her. She didn't do anything wrong. There isn't some kind of psychological reason for this like her emotional immaturity. That's all pyschological BS by the conselors to make you think this can be fixed with sessions so they can make money off you. She lost feelings for you and the only thing that made her happy was becoming involved with someone else. Don't make the mistake of thinking conseling is going to make someone love you who doesn't. Too many people think it will. You have been given a gift in the way of a valuable lesson. Don't ignore it.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Thatdog, Good for you for trying to get to the root of the problem with someone that you care about. Clearly you have more dedication and sense then most men and I hope that the direction you have picked works well for you. If it doesn't you will have learned many valuable lessons from it. Your fiance sounds like she didn't cross over that line like so many others on here and she is young enough to turn the tide of this if she gets the continued support from counseling. SBT is a good way to go in terms of therapy for this type of thing but it sounds as though you have already chosen a more traditional counselor. Counseling at first usually feels hard and then it improves. Either way you will learn more about yourself, new skills and maintaining a relationship. If this one does fail or prove to be incompatible you can take those skills and perspectives into a new relationship. It does sound as though she is remorseful and being transparent. Don't go with your heart, go with your gut. If you get that flip flop feeling in your stomach, get the heck out of Dodge. I wish you the best.
Author thatdog Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 Dreamingoftigers - thanks for the support. This feel like they are looking a little better already. She came home today and actually initiated discussion herself. we talked for a few hours about the things we can do and have both made pledges to each other to do some specific things about resetting and defining our boundaries and activites to work on the relationship. just need to hope we can both see this through... btw- what is 'SBT'?
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Hopefully you will be able to tell if she has made genuine changes. Those that cheat can be very convincing about their nature but it seems that from the actions you described that it really is some immaturity and not some "compulsion." I think that if she were not genuine she would still be minimizing and laying blame etc. She would be saying things like "this is totally out of preportion, I didn't even sleep with the guy" Through education etc. At counseling she very well might break what could have been a pretty destructive cycle in her life. This may not be such a curse to happen. SBT is solution-based therapy
WorldIsYours Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 You aren't the one for her. She isn't the one for him. She didn't do anything wrong. Yes she did. She lost feelings for you and the only thing that made her happy was becoming involved with someone else. She cheated because she doesn't care about him and likes the thrill of fooling around with other men. Don't make the mistake of thinking conseling is going to make someone love you who doesn't. Too many people think it will. Agreed. She clearly doesn't love this guy because she wants to hoe around.
2sunny Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 TD- you seem like a really healthy strong man. for her = she seems to be an immature. selfish, self serving gal. the two aren't a good match... at least not right now... IF and when SHE starts to think of YOU and your feelings before her own - then and only then will you understand she has grown and matured enough to consider marriage. in the meantime - she shows evidence of wanting to party and DO her thing- so let her! have her move out and explore life without you watching the damage she will create. and she will... no need for you to stand by and be a part of that. get busy being happy - she's about to take you down = she can't as long as you get busy being happy on your own. let her go - she has some oats she intends to sow. she knows you are standing in the way - you don't want that happening AFTER you are married.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Often relationship-ending decisions are going to have to be arrived at naturally. Why would she bother with the counseling if she didn't have an interest in repairing things? Her current actions seem to suggest that she is remorseful and wants to fix things up.
sniffys Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 i think you should do what you can do to save the relationship..its very hard to break up. couples need to forgive..forgiveness ..thats a must in a relationship. honesty and forgiveness go together. not unless she did something that is severely irreversible.
Woggle Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Like I said in the other thread if a person cheats with no marriage and no kids it should be an automatic breakup. If she is so weak minded that she lets her manhating friends ruin her relationships and is willing to throw it away over some jerk how do you think she will act once you are married? Just avoid all that drama and end it.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Like I said in the other thread if a person cheats with no marriage and no kids it should be an automatic breakup. If she is so weak minded that she lets her manhating friends ruin her relationships and is willing to throw it away over some jerk how do you think she will act once you are married? Just avoid all that drama and end it. Typically I would 100% agree with you, but they are already going down the fix-up path and undoing that would seem kind of foolish at this point. Just like some posters suggest that I drop my husband as soon as he had just agreed to go to treatment.
Woggle Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Typically I would 100% agree with you, but they are already going down the fix-up path and undoing that would seem kind of foolish at this point. Just like some posters suggest that I drop my husband as soon as he had just agreed to go to treatment. You guys have children and a marriage. What does this guy hav ethat is at stake? How can he possibly benefit from taking her back?
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Okay at this point they have started the process and invested in repairing things. So if she gets some sense in her head from the consequences and the process, then she can become a nice, functional partner for him and that is worth it's weight in gold. Or he can ditch her and play the partner lotto again. Both are probably about the same at this point and he has had emotional intimacy over the course of their relationship so that would tip it slightly over the line. Like 55%-45%. Even if she doesn't smarten up, he still learns relational skills etc from the counseling increasing his chances much better in the future. Plus he won't be willing by that point to go through this crap again. Had he and she not started the process, it would be better to let go considering they aren't married etc. Marriage/children is the line I set too.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Okay at this point they have started the process and invested in repairing things. So if she gets some sense in her head from the consequences and the process, then she can become a nice, functional partner for him and that is worth it's weight in gold. Or he can ditch her and play the partner lotto again. Both are probably about the same at this point and he has had emotional intimacy over the course of their relationship so that would tip it slightly over the line. Like 55%-45%. Even if she doesn't smarten up, he still learns relational skills etc from the counseling increasing his chances much better in the future. Plus he won't be willing by that point to go through this crap again. Had he and she not started the process, it would be better to let go considering they aren't married etc. Marriage/children is the line I set too. As well, if her actions weren't lining up so smoothly I would say drop her. Any sense of resistance, drop her.
Author thatdog Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 As well, if her actions weren't lining up so smoothly I would say drop her. Any sense of resistance, drop her. Well she moved home early so we could spend our anniversary together, agreed to each and every demand I made (except one which I will start a new thread for as I'm unsure how upset I should be about it though it doesn't affect her behavior within the relationship or with this guy -- she committed to changing work shifts around when he wont be there and wont go out with those ppl again), and has become compeltely open with me about what has been going on these few months as well as admitting she should have been mor eopen with her feelings to me before and now initiates discussions herself on a daily basis (though where we are now it's much easier to be non-confrontational). Her commitments to me.. 1-Will always lmk where she is going when she goes out and gives me an estimate of when she will be home. If plans change she will call/txt to lmk and allow me to veto those changes. 2- Will limit her girls nights out to about once a month and will come home at a predetermined reasonable hour when I will pick her up from town. 3-Continue counseling and reading texts prescribed by the counselor and attempt to put the things learned there into practice with our relationship. My commitments to her... 1- I won't abuse my veto power to control her social life without very good reason (eg. chance OM might be there, we have previous plans she). 2- I won't attempt to force her to discuss our issues except on days we/she have counseling. 3- I work on developing skills to be more attentive to other peoples needs (one of her big issues with me. Oddly she constantly reiterates that she has no issue with my attentiveness to HER needs.) What do you think/? is this a healthy set of boundaries for a 'normal' relationship or and i going to far/nt far enough?
jnj express Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 What is it with you---she got into trouble at GNO, and with friends drinking after work---and here you are letting her go once a month on GNO----why?????? If she needs to see her friends at this point she can go to lunch to a movie, sporting events---GNO, are basically bar-hopping, dancing, watching male strippers etc., etc-----that's what they are, and that's what they do--- If you are not engaged anymore---than why are there boundaries at all---If the 2 of you are serious---SHE DOES NOT NEED ANY GIRLS NIGHTS OUT---point blank--end of discussion---all they do is put her in harms way----
bl22 Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Hey 'Thatdog' Its strange reading this because it sounds so simarlar to what I recently went through with my most recent ex, the 1 I loved. She began going on more 'girls nights outs' with friends I had never met before, and soon she started hanging out with this guy from work. I thought nothing of it. Eventually she admitted to me 'she may have feelings for him' but continued to confess her love for me and how much she wants me not him. She shown me all the conversations and txts theyd been sending 'in order to regain my trust' which hurt like hell....what did i do ...I decided to continue the relationship and 'give her a chance' To make it up to me she booked a holiday for 2 weeks time, promised never to speak to him again, to ignore himat work and tell him to back off. You know what happened... she DIDNT stop txting him... she DIDNT stop going on 'nights out' which he happened to go along she ended up staying out with him all night then told me she'd cancelled the holiday and 'i deserve better than her, she will always love me and Ill always be her first love but I have feelings for him'.....now what....never heard from her again.. I stupidly check her facebook after 2 months, there is a picture of her and the guy up close cuddling together smiling looking into each others eyes. Let me tel you that was a knife through my heart. I had nightmares about it for about 3 weeks straight...I spent the whole of christmas - new years in bed not able to move or eat or sleep properly. To this day she hasnt contacted me, and its crazy how much this story your telling was how mine was...DONT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU. Have some ****ing dignity and end it with this woman, you'll save yourself a lot of pain!! If only i had someone to tell me this when i was 'deciding to give it another go' ...it will not end well...this guy will not just disapear until he gets what he wants, thats how these guys operate!! Your ex's 'friends' are poisin and theyl be doing everything they can to convinceher that you are the BAD guy. Have some self respect because she sure as hell doesnt respect you right now, all she sees you as now is a barrier for 'her to be free and do things that make her happy'.....its ****ed up , but please listen to me and everyone here, this will not end well, so end it on your terms ....not hers which will blow your heart into 1000 pieces...
Memphis Raines Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 What is it with you---she got into trouble at GNO, and with friends drinking after work---and here you are letting her go once a month on GNO----why?????? If she needs to see her friends at this point she can go to lunch to a movie, sporting events---GNO, are basically bar-hopping, dancing, watching male strippers etc., etc-----that's what they are, and that's what they do--- If you are not engaged anymore---than why are there boundaries at all---If the 2 of you are serious---SHE DOES NOT NEED ANY GIRLS NIGHTS OUT---point blank--end of discussion---all they do is put her in harms way---- for the most part, I absolutely agree. It all depends on what happens on the GNO's. Like with guys. Me and my friends simply get together in the garage(because not smoking stogies in the basement), to play poker and watch a game on the tube. Last thing we'd do, unless we want to meet a frying pan to the face(no its not that bad), is to go out and disrespect our significant others by including other women in our fun.
Author thatdog Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 for the most part, I absolutely agree. It all depends on what happens on the GNO's. Like with guys. Me and my friends simply get together in the garage(because not smoking stogies in the basement), to play poker and watch a game on the tube. Last thing we'd do, unless we want to meet a frying pan to the face(no its not that bad), is to go out and disrespect our significant others by including other women in our fun. at the moment GNO = going out with a couple of gfs and gay friends and dancing/drinking at the local gay club. That helps a bit at least since i can assume she won't be getting much attention from other guys and by choosing to go there doesn't seem to rate the attention as a requirement for a good night out. On the other hand I generally despise places like this cos in my experience gay culture is so incredibly open and slutty. So i still have some concerns that she might be getting influenced by this.
ComputerJock Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Isn't GNO where she was seeing other guy? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Author thatdog Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 Isn't GNO where she was seeing other guy? Correct me if I'm wrong. No. She worked with the guy at her waitressing job. The staff would often have staff dinner and drinks after closing and she would sometimes stay. This year she started staying regularly and be the last one to leave. Once things got really bad she was taking her friends to the restaurant where she worked so she could see him and they could turn GNO dinner into post work drinks with him. (This only happened once though and was pretty much the impetus by which i finally caught on to what was happening). And when we had our big fight she called him up to see if people were still in town post work so she could ditch me for them. Regular GNO has always been going dancing with a couple of gfs and gay friends. It just started to warp beyond GNO when this guy became a big player in the picture. So if i have to start trusting her again but at least am allowed some semblence of control then I figure I should be allowing her to get back to her old pre-EA life provided enough is done to satisfy me that she will not be going out of control or running off to see him (obv I can't stop this anyway but at least I can keep tabs to see if she is going to try anything).
Author thatdog Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 Clarification basically before this all happened she used to ahve 2 nights out without me GNO and staff drinks. GNO was originally a few hrs out drinking with the girls but occassionally would stay out too late and get too drunk. staff drinks was usually 1 or 2 beers after work with co-workers once veeyr couple of weeks. when things got bad GNO = big night out with girls every time, getting home 5am or later completely smashed. staff drinks went from once a fortnight to 2-3 times a week and often became 5 or 6 beers getting home at 2am usually drunk. Now she is committed to coming home straight after work and having 0 drinks and going to GNO once or twice a month and allowing me to know exactly where she is and who she is with and I pick her up and bring her home at a reasonable hour.
Chi townD Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 The past situation sounds very sketchy with me. Something isn't sitting right. First she tells you that there's NO ONE ELSE! Then you find out there is someone else and she has feelings for him. But how ironic that you found out, because just a week before you found out, she decided that her feelings for him were as strong as the feelings for you and she ended it! REALLY?!?! You are not getting the entire truth here my friend. You said that you read some communications between the two of them that proved there wasn't a PA. How do you really know? I've been in relationships with women that every texting conversation doesn't revolve around our sex life. She says that she didn't know what a EA was. Okay...... You might want to get her definition of what a PA is. She might think that a PA is strictly intercourse, so she didn't cheat on you. But the make out sessions in the back of his car isn't a PA because there was no intercourse. I hate to be so negative but something isn't sitting right after reading this thread. I would just say, walk with caution!
Memphis Raines Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 at the moment GNO = going out with a couple of gfs and gay friends and dancing/drinking at the local gay club. and of course they STAY at this gay club and don't venture out into the city to other hot spots, because she told you so, right?
Memphis Raines Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Now she is committed to coming home straight after work and having 0 drinks and going to GNO once or twice a month and allowing me to know exactly where she is and who she is with and I pick her up and bring her home at a reasonable hour. may be a little extreme, but ever consider putting a GPS on her car without her knowing?
2sunny Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 if you think she's exhibiting concerning behavior now... just wait until after you're married. it's not likely to get better - you're in for quite the ride if you stay... YOU have a choice! my suggestion is to RUUUUUNNNN!!!!!!! there's no need for YOU to try to fix what is broken in her... find a healthy gal that doesn't need to party and play stupid when she cheats... by saying "i didn't know i did anything wrong?" SINCE she understands such low morals- and thinks nothing about her behavior "was wrong" - it's a good idea to let some other sap have what she's going to dish out in her lifetime.
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