confusedinkansas Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 PorkRinds[/url] ]The broad issue being confronted is, "Can a betrayed spouse trust their cheating/formerly cheating spouse to be fully honest in the future?" This is much broader than just "never technically cheating" again. Kansas, you gave YOUR situation as an example of "success." So to that extent, your sich is relevant, because my understanding of it, is that you've never come totally clean with your h about the extent of your affair. You're still hiding aspects of it from him. True? False? My husband & I have never sat down & had a conversation about the second part of the affair. He is fully aware - we've just never talked about it. At that particular time in our marriage things were unraveling so fast that neither one of use cared what the other was doing. We probably should have divorced - but because of our beliefs & some other things, we didn't. We tried to move ahead the best we both could & tried to stick it out together. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. We did split up for about a year & a half. My choice. When things looked as if they would be better together than apart - I moved back home. Things were very rocky for the first 6 months or so - but at that time we both realized that the love was never gone - just misplaced for a time. Whenever I've brought up the x-OM (as some of you know he has tried on occasion to contact me via email, etc.) My husband has no interest in discussing it. He knows that things are great now & there's no need to drudge up or wallow in the past. I can honestly say that NOW I couldn't ask for a better marriage. I hope that clears things up for those that have asked.
drifter777 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 No, it doesn't clear up anything for me. Correct me where I am wrong. You and H had a rocky marriage and both had affairs. Neither of you shared too many details because you didn't care what the other was doing. You split for a year and a half and then got back together and, after a rocky start, things are great now. And your H has no interest in discussing your affair because of the current bliss and doesn't want to dredge up the past. You must have left out a lot of details because this doesn't add up to me. If it is an accurate summation then you need someone to ring the reality bell and wake you from your fog. Are you so blind that you cannot see the obvious reason your H doesn't want to discuss your A? It's because as long as the words don't come out of your mouth, it's not real. He can go on pretending that you two just had a "rocky" period and now things are great. Deep down he knows he's living a lie, but he's afraid to know the truth because he will then have to deal with the reality of a cheating wife. He is terrified of that pain and is doing everything he can to avoid it but he won't be able to hold back reality forever. I'm concerned for both of you since when he blows things could get awfully messy. Think about it, how many cases have you read on this forum have a happy ending? Now think about the cases where the couple never open up to each other about the details of the A, how many of them have a happy ending? So what do you think the chances are that your current "everything is good" state can possibly last? I understand your reluctance to reopen this wound on the remote chance your H actually has the ability to blot out the memories, but it might be wise to suggest that he seek IC to give him the opportunity to express his feelings to someone.
Author confusedinkansas Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Well - first off - We did not both have affair(s)- Plural I had AN affair. He may or may not have acted inappropriately (same as his other guy friends) on occasion - WAYYYY back in the day. But he has never had an affair. & for the record...I'm not in any kind of a fog. You don't know my husband the way I do - so I'll try to explain. He doesn't drudge up the past about ANYTHING. He handles it at the time & is able to let it go. An example: He has been f'd over by family in business dealings (bad!!) & he has no intention of bringing it up again & he still loves his family - We still attend family functions. The past is in the past....where it belongs. He's not that guy that when the 'world does ya wrong' crawls into himself & rocks like a baby. He dusts himself off if he should happen to fall & gets on with LIFE! It's just who & how he is. It's who he has always been. Trust me - He's not that guy that'll "Blow" eventually. It's just not in him. As for counseling. We've been there & done that. It has had a very small impact on our marriage. Too expensive & didn't see many +'s in it. As for the 'details' of the affair. Who the hell cares now. After all this time. It's irrelevant. He knows what happened - He knows how he feels (felt about it). I know how I feel. Isn't that what it's REALLY about. Some folks here just amaze me. There is 0 capability of letting anything go. - Even when you love someone. 0 capability to Forgive. It's Sad really --You must hound & hound away. Life is so much more than being (Self Inflicted)miserable - So to sum up - Your anolgy would be incorrect sir.
ladydesigner Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Well - first off - We did not both have affair(s)- Plural I had AN affair. He may or may not have acted inappropriately (same as his other guy friends) on occasion - WAYYYY back in the day. But he has never had an affair. & for the record...I'm not in any kind of a fog. You don't know my husband the way I do - so I'll try to explain. He doesn't drudge up the past about ANYTHING. He handles it at the time & is able to let it go. An example: He has been f'd over by family in business dealings (bad!!) & he has no intention of bringing it up again & he still loves his family - We still attend family functions. The past is in the past....where it belongs. He's not that guy that when the 'world does ya wrong' crawls into himself & rocks like a baby. He dusts himself off if he should happen to fall & gets on with LIFE! It's just who & how he is. It's who he has always been. Trust me - He's not that guy that'll "Blow" eventually. It's just not in him. As for counseling. We've been there & done that. It has had a very small impact on our marriage. Too expensive & didn't see many +'s in it. As for the 'details' of the affair. Who the hell cares now. After all this time. It's irrelevant. He knows what happened - He knows how he feels (felt about it). I know how I feel. Isn't that what it's REALLY about. Some folks here just amaze me. There is 0 capability of letting anything go. - Even when you love someone. 0 capability to Forgive. It's Sad really --You must hound & hound away. Life is so much more than being (Self Inflicted)miserable - So to sum up - Your anolgy would be incorrect sir. CIK the bolded is so very true. I am a BS before becoming a WS and I have let it go (My H's A's). Your damn right about that... Life is SO much more than being miserable.
WorldIsYours Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 As for the 'details' of the affair. Who the hell cares now. After all this time. It's irrelevant. To you it's irrelevant. His own family screwed him over and you couldn't even be the one person in his life that stayed true to him. Drifter is right, something doesn't add up.
Snowflower Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 CIK, I know I've said this before but I appreciate you hanging around LS and giving your POV. I don't completely understand why you seem to get under the skin of some here. I guess it is your "it is what it is" thoughts about your affair that rattles some. But really, if your H is okay with things in your marriage and if he is happy then who cares what is said here. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to try to explain yourself further. Your marriage is your business (and your H's) and no one else's.
Author confusedinkansas Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) CIK, I know I've said this before but I appreciate you hanging around LS and giving your POV. I don't completely understand why you seem to get under the skin of some here. I guess it is your "it is what it is" thoughts about your affair that rattles some. But really, if your H is okay with things in your marriage and if he is happy then who cares what is said here. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to try to explain yourself further. Your marriage is your business (and your H's) and no one else's. You're right. My marriage is my business. No one knows the dynamics of it but my husband & myself. For some reason there are so many here though that seem to think that if you don't wallow in the self pity for the rest of your life then it means you don't care. It's the furthest thing from the truth I only explain myself when those who jump to conclusions have so much to ADD. (which 90% of is incorrect) My husband & I both know what happened back then. We know how far we've come & how much we've overcome. That's all that's important. You're right too - I do have a "It Is What It Is" attitude. Because that's the way I see it. Ya can't change the past - But you sure as hell can move on with live & have a VERY FULFILLING & HAPPY marriage......& that's what we are doing. Edited March 30, 2011 by confusedinkansas
drifter777 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 CIK, I know I've said this before but I appreciate you hanging around LS and giving your POV. I don't completely understand why you seem to get under the skin of some here. I guess it is your "it is what it is" thoughts about your affair that rattles some. But really, if your H is okay with things in your marriage and if he is happy then who cares what is said here. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to try to explain yourself further. Your marriage is your business (and your H's) and no one else's. The problem for me is that CIK's point of view is not the reality for 99.99% of the victims of infidelity. Husbands don't just forgive and forget - they have disgusting visions of their W and OM and flashes of rage that are inconceivable to anyone who hasn't been there. CIK' own story, if true, is so atypical that the experience is not relevant to other victims of infidelity.
Snowflower Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 The problem for me is that CIK's point of view is not the reality for 99.99% of the victims of infidelity. Husbands don't just forgive and forget - they have disgusting visions of their W and OM and flashes of rage that are inconceivable to anyone who hasn't been there. CIK' own story, if true, is so atypical that the experience is not relevant to other victims of infidelity. Well, we don't have CIK's husband here to post his feelings about the affair. I'm sure if he did post at least some of his feelings would mimic the other BS's feelings. I've yet to meet a BS here who didn't have some of these feelings. CIK offers her viewpoint as a fWS. She is not a BS obviously. But some people here find the fWS viewpoint helpful as they work through their own issues with infidelity. CIK is patient even when wild assumptions are made about her, her marriage and even her BH, which is pretty harsh, IMO.
StoneCold Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I don't completely understand why you seem to get under the skin of some here. I guess it is your "it is what it is" thoughts about your affair that rattles some. Well I havent been here long but I have certainly noticed that many on here are very......narrow. Theres only one "right" POV...thiers..... its "the ONLY wrong and or betrayal in a marriage is cheating" its "oh everyone feel sorry for me because I was cheated on regardless of what I may have done to contribute to my situation" Personal responsibility only goes one way around here... As soon you dont tow party lines around here you're the devil
drifter777 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Well I havent been here long but I have certainly noticed that many on here are very......narrow. Theres only one "right" POV...thiers..... its "the ONLY wrong and or betrayal in a marriage is cheating" its "oh everyone feel sorry for me because I was cheated on regardless of what I may have done to contribute to my situation" Personal responsibility only goes one way around here... As soon you dont tow party lines around here you're the devil Huh? What are you talking about? What's your point?
StoneCold Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Huh? What are you talking about? What's your point? Go back and read the thread
StoneCold Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 That sounds a bit extreme. there are many of us who will freely admit that we contributed to whatever state out marraige was in before the affair. While I certainly wasn't "evil incarnate", there were probably an awful lot of small things that I was doing that weren't so great, and you add all those small things together and they can add up to something pretty big. That was a fairly large part of why my husband was feeling so low ( there are other factors too, but I won't mention them here). But I honestly didn't know he felt as bad as he did. He never told me anything was wrong, and if I asked, he'd deny it. The way I see it, I am 50% responsible for the state of our marraige, but he's 100% responsible for what he chose to do about it- but this does not mean that he deserves to be villified for his actions... I may despise what he did but I do love him. Well that would make you one of the few. But just to correct some wording.... You are 50% responsible for the state of your marriage and he is responsible for the other 50%..... and you are BOTH 100% responsible for what you chose to do. Hes responsible for his actions and you for yours
ShatteredReality Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 You're right. My marriage is my business. No one knows the dynamics of it but my husband & myself. For some reason there are so many here though that seem to think that if you don't wallow in the self pity for the rest of your life then it means you don't care. It's the furthest thing from the truth I only explain myself when those who jump to conclusions have so much to ADD. (which 90% of is incorrect) My husband & I both know what happened back then. We know how far we've come & how much we've overcome. That's all that's important. You're right too - I do have a "It Is What It Is" attitude. Because that's the way I see it. Ya can't change the past - But you sure as hell can move on with live & have a VERY FULFILLING & HAPPY marriage......& that's what we are doing. I love your attitude. It seems that far too often on here if we don't sit there and go on and on about how terrible what we did is and how we're never going to be ok and we're completely unworthy of the love of our SO after we've done something so unforgiveable it's perceived as sweeping our actions under the rug or being heartless. I agree with you...we cannot change our past actions, but we can certainly learn from them and choose not to repeat them. We also do better moving forward and trying our best to be happy and fullfilled in our marriages and lives than throwing in the towel and writhing in self loathing forever. Our spouses deserve everything we can give to them and if we're swallowed up in guilt and self pity for the rest of our lives they won't get very much out of us. This will only further the injustices against them. My husband and I were able to clearly identify the issues in our marriage and begin to handle them in a more appropriate manner after my affair. He was far from blameless when it came to the state our marriage was in. It's the worst thing that I could have done to him, I won't deny that. Our marriage now, though, is better than it was before...and I can honestly say we have a chance of making it together now where we most likely would have been that couple that ended in divorce sometime during the kids teenage years. There's nothing wrong with concentrating on the positive outcomes...especially since concetrating on the negative brings about only a negative outcome...
TMCM Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The problem for me is that CIK's point of view is not the reality for 99.99% of the victims of infidelity. Husbands don't just forgive and forget - they have disgusting visions of their W and OM and flashes of rage that are inconceivable to anyone who hasn't been there. CIK' own story, if true, is so atypical that the experience is not relevant to other victims of infidelity. Forgiveness and reconciliation are two different animals. Many choose to reconcile but never forgive their WS (and that includes many BW with their WH). I agree that for most people it is not possible to 'forgive and forget' but there are many who can but ONLY through a great deal of time and hard work from BOTH spouses. Don't fool yourself with the wide held beleif that women are more forgiving than men, they are not and it is as outdated as is the beleif that they are more faithful than men. Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting. It is a conscious choice to accept that which cannot be undone and not to seek revenge in order to move on with one's life no matter what the seething feelings of the moment may be. Reason must subdue the Id until it finally realizes that 'resistance is futile'.
blizzard Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 CIK my husband is like yours. He says he wants to forgive and forget...move on. He knows the affair happened. He doesn't ask questions. None. For me on the otherhand...it's like a big elephant in the room. And I am the one that had the affair. It worries me b/c we had no communication in our marriage. He swept all of our marital problems under the rug... And well, his unacceptance/denial that we had marital problems eventually led to my affair. I sort of feel like he is sweeping the affair under the rug too.
WorldIsYours Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 CIK my husband is like yours. He says he wants to forgive and forget...move on. He knows the affair happened. He doesn't ask questions. None. For me on the otherhand...it's like a big elephant in the room. And I am the one that had the affair. It worries me b/c we had no communication in our marriage. He swept all of our marital problems under the rug... And well, his unacceptance/denial that we had marital problems eventually led to my affair. I sort of feel like he is sweeping the affair under the rug too. Your marital problems didn't eventually led to your affair. You led your own self to your affair. Do you ever stop to think that your affair is another reason why your husband refuses to talk about this? How do you think having an affair is supposed to solve whatever you and your husband is dealing with?
TMCM Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Your marital problems didn't eventually led to your affair. You led your own self to your affair. Not directly but the marital problems did create the fertile environment where an affair became a possibility and when the opportunity arose she took it. Still that doesn't absolve her from being responsible for choosing the dishonorable choice to have an affair. The honorable choice would have been for her to leave her husband and file for divorce. Do you ever stop to think that your affair is another reason why your husband refuses to talk about this? How do you think having an affair is supposed to solve whatever you and your husband is dealing with? It's possible but just maybe her husband is that way to begin with. We men can run the gamut from emotional icebergs to passionate volcanos. Maybe her husband tends more toward the former rather than the latter.
WorldIsYours Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Not directly but the marital problems did create the fertile environment where an affair became a possibility and when the opportunity arose she took it. Still that doesn't absolve her from being responsible for choosing the dishonorable choice to have an affair. The honorable choice would have been for her to leave her husband and file for divorce. No, no, no. She let it happen on her own account. The marital issues have nothing to do with it. It's possible but just maybe her husband is that way to begin with. We men can run the gamut from emotional icebergs to passionate volcanos. Maybe her husband tends more toward the former rather than the latter. Yea, maybe.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I always wonder if the BS is as happy as they 'claim' to be or 'seem' to be or if they are just so concerned that their spouse will go down that path again or leave them because they pipe up and complain or protest.
blizzard Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Not directly but the marital problems did create the fertile environment where an affair became a possibility and when the opportunity arose she took it. Still that doesn't absolve her from being responsible for choosing the dishonorable choice to have an affair. The honorable choice would have been for her to leave her husband and file for divorce. It's possible but just maybe her husband is that way to begin with. We men can run the gamut from emotional icebergs to passionate volcanos. Maybe her husband tends more toward the former rather than the latter. TCM, well said and absolutely true. I didn't just wake up one day and decide today is the perfect day to have an affair...my marriage is perfect, my husband is perfect, I am perfect...why not? My marriage was eroding. We were seperated, and I had asked for a divorce WIY. My marriage was a carwreck. I will agree that it was the worst mistake I have ever made because it did make a horrible situation even worse. Legally we were still married.
Author confusedinkansas Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 The marital issues have nothing to do with it. This isn't true on every account - Marital issues DO have a contributing factor with those that have affairs. Ask anyone who's had an affair if their marriage was perfect, peaches & cream before the affair actually got going. Not many will tell you that it was. My husband knows where his responsibility lies for our downfall & for the affair - He'd tell you so. Just like I know mine. Which is why we both have done a great deal of work (but not really work) to get back on the path where we can & are happy again.
blizzard Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 I always wonder if the BS is as happy as they 'claim' to be or 'seem' to be or if they are just so concerned that their spouse will go down that path again or leave them because they pipe up and complain or protest. Good point. I will say at the onset he often made snide remarks about "the sex" in the affair. I don't think that he understands how insignificant that aspect of the affair was...it was the emotional bond that I had found with someone. It had nothing to do with physical attraction. I believe he thought that it had to do with him "in the bedroom"...or the way he looks. I tried to tell him it was about what our marriage was lacking...communication, a bond. He still doesn't get it. Sex is sex (no intimacy) with stbx so you can also see why he easily said forgive/forget. I wonder if this is the case with many men?! I am not sure in CIK situation...but I see my stbx as just wanting his family back and he is in denial that it was me just needing to get my rocks off.
silktricks Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Well - first off - We did not both have affair(s)- Plural I had AN affair. He may or may not have acted inappropriately (same as his other guy friends) on occasion - WAYYYY back in the day. But he has never had an affair. & for the record...I'm not in any kind of a fog. You don't know my husband the way I do - so I'll try to explain. He doesn't drudge up the past about ANYTHING. He handles it at the time & is able to let it go. An example: He has been f'd over by family in business dealings (bad!!) & he has no intention of bringing it up again & he still loves his family - We still attend family functions. The past is in the past....where it belongs. He's not that guy that when the 'world does ya wrong' crawls into himself & rocks like a baby. He dusts himself off if he should happen to fall & gets on with LIFE! It's just who & how he is. It's who he has always been. Trust me - He's not that guy that'll "Blow" eventually. It's just not in him. As for counseling. We've been there & done that. It has had a very small impact on our marriage. Too expensive & didn't see many +'s in it. As for the 'details' of the affair. Who the hell cares now. After all this time. It's irrelevant. He knows what happened - He knows how he feels (felt about it). I know how I feel. Isn't that what it's REALLY about. Some folks here just amaze me. There is 0 capability of letting anything go. - Even when you love someone. 0 capability to Forgive. It's Sad really --You must hound & hound away. Life is so much more than being (Self Inflicted)miserable - So to sum up - Your anolgy would be incorrect sir. Thanks for the explanation CIK. I had assumed from prior posts that your not sharing the full details with your husband was your choice, not his, in which case it was problematical. With this it's very obvious that you have together made the choice of how to "handle" the past. As the past . Congratulations to both of you.
silktricks Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I always wonder if the BS is as happy as they 'claim' to be or 'seem' to be or if they are just so concerned that their spouse will go down that path again or leave them because they pipe up and complain or protest. Oh for crying out loud .... I am perfectly happy and not the slightest bit concerned my husband "will go down that path again". Our marriage is great. Is it possible that some former BS aren't happy? Sure it is - it's even probable. But why would you wonder or assume that a BS simply must be faking happiness??? I know that some people don't "get" that happiness post affair is possible, but your wondering doesn't change reality. Of course, I don't consider myself to be a BS any longer either.... Edited March 31, 2011 by silktricks
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