proactivedreamer Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 The bottom line is that we are all entitled to be attracted to whatever we find attractive. I know women who won't date a man who isn't over 6'2" or who isn't blonde or who doesn't have inherited wealth. (And I'm not starting a gender war. Men -- including me -- have equally silly requirements). A woman with a PhD wanting to date a man with equal education doesn't seem anymore silly than other arbitrary factors. Personally, I find that about 90% of attraction is mental, and I go nuts over wickedly-smart women. That being said, I haven't found much correlation between intelligence and education level, either among dating partners or in my business life. (and I have a stack of degrees, so I tend to have an 'education is good' bias). Some of the smartest people I've met didn't go to college, and I haven't been terribly impressed with some of the PhDs that I've met (especially social science types). I've noticed a real closed-mindedness and lack of curiosity among academics that I've dated, which is a real turnoff for me. I guess what I really find attractive is curiosity and a desire for life-long learning, rather than specific academic achievements. A person who asks a lot of questions is interesting to me; someone who knows all the answers is not. But to each his or her own. If someone doesn't want to date me because I don't have a PhD (or because I have dark hair or because I'm only 5'11" or because my dad worked in a factory), it's her loss, not mine. I am definitely impressed with a person who asks a great deal of questions or is insatiably curious about the world. I especially like a person who examines the way they live, and ask questions about personal social responsibility. I find myself really attracted to "artysy" types-maybe because I am fairly "artsy". I love music, visual art, writing, and traveling, so those are the kinds of guys I tend to be attracted to. I think those kinds of guys live a bit more passionately, which is how I think we all should live. At the end of the day, it is about what you value out of life. I don't ever pursue a guy based on socioeconomic status-that isn't a motivation for me. Although, I can be a bit superficial when it comes to looks-it's validation thing with me as I still struggle with a low self-image(working on it!!). Anyways, I think that person who has no interest in personal growth or improvement isn't a person I would want to get involved with. I like a person who is self-reflective and cares about the quality of their thinking and their life. Anyways, the world is our classroom, so let the learning begin!
carhill Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 She had stated that "higher education is important to me, so that it's imperative, and she's spent 10 years in college and should have career success (like herself) in order to be a match." She stated a specific parameter of compatibility, one which would be otherwise completely unknown prior to or during a random IRL meeting. Viewing that parameter, I would pass on her profile because I accept such statements as the person's truth and my life experience doesn't match up with that parameter. Our paths would never cross. I think that's healthy.
runner Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 success and character shouldn't be measured through formal education, only. and to do so is folly.
threebyfate Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Not sure why people are drawing a comparison between someone who's stated that due to his IQ and phenomenal ethics, the rest of the human race are sub-beings who don't match his self-professed untested genius level, and the following: She had stated that "higher education is important to me, so that it's imperative, and she's spent 10 years in college and should have career success (like herself) in order to be a match." She's not stating that others are subhuman or all have low, animal-like ethics. She's defining her dating preference. If she were a man, I would still take the same stance. It's disengenuous to muddy the waters with fallacious comparisons.
GorillaTheater Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 success and character shouldn't be measured through formal education, only. and to do so is folly. Especially since success and character are so often utterly independent of formal education. I have an advanced degree. My wife didn't finish college. I work in an area where my colleagues and clients have advanced degrees for the most part. One of my best friends runs a business installing septic systems. I have a tough time with anti-intellectual snobbery. I also have trouble with intellectual snobbery.
ReturnToSender Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) The bottom line is that we are all entitled to be attracted to whatever we find attractive. I know women who won't date a man who isn't over 6'2" or who isn't blonde or who doesn't have inherited wealth. (And I'm not starting a gender war. Men -- including me -- have equally silly requirements). A woman with a PhD wanting to date a man with equal education doesn't seem anymore silly than other arbitrary factors. I totally agree with this. I dont have a college degree, and if someone required me to have one to date them, I wouldnt get defensive or try to prove my case, no more than I like when someone tries to prove their case when it comes to my personal requirements. The only thing I want out of someone is that they have *at least* what I have been able to do for myself... That is..that they have an income, that they have a car, that they dont have roommates or live with their parents, live comfortably and have no issues or trouble with the law. Basically, as long as they are self-sufficient and a productive member of society...and I dont settle for less... So I can and will respect it if someone has the same standards of only getting involved with someone that has at least what theyve provided for themselves...and if thats a college degree and/or a certain level of degree...so be it. Interestingly, most people who know me assume that I have a degree...most of it because of the way I speak, write and carry myself, but the thing is I know that has nothing to do with a degree...college doesnt teach you those things. I know people with advanced degrees who can barely string an intelligent looking sentence together and act like oafs... But anyway, Im not worried about it and I dont get defensive...for every person who will lose interest in me because I didnt go to college, there is another who will overlook it. No different than that I dont feel bad about turning down a guy with no car and live with roommates....there are plenty other women who will snatch them up regardless, its not like im their only hope at love Edited March 24, 2011 by ReturnToSender
Crazy Magnet Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I could also rule out people who don't have purple hair if that's my preference. It doesn't mean I'll turn up a lot of matches, but if that's what I know will make me happy, based on prior dating experience, then why bother dating people with green or blue hair? By 36 she knows what does and does not work for her. Hooray for her on not wasting anyone's time. As a near PhD, I would honestly prefer the guy with a BS or MS in Engineering b/c he would be more portable and perhaps I would not have to sacrifice so much to stay in academics. It's easier to move while working in the private sector. It would be difficult for me to date and marry someone in humanities or the social sciences because those fields tend to be overstuffed with PhDs. In my field I shall have my pick of placements upon graduation and a humanities partner might have a hard time tagging along if I land a gig at a prestigious institution. On the other hand, if my humanities/social sciences partner landed a gig at a great place, I'd have no problems getting on.
runner Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 i'm just hoping this thread doesn't morph into a pissing contest between the natural and the social sciences. worth talking about, but not in the dating section
zengirl Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Zengirl and others. In that thread where someone showed up and spoke of wanting someone with a simmilar IQ (someone who had a BSSE or some such)... he was called elitist, arrogant, etc. So was I. Well the "self proclaimed" college grads and near PhD holders... :lmao: Of this board why are you not also elitisit, arrogant, etc for wanting someone with an education. First of all, I don't really care if it is elitist. I'm not going to date people I don't want to date (people I find unattractive physically, mentally, incompatible, etc) in order to bend over backwards, worrying about what others think is elitist. I'm not saying they should be in a different caste and barred from my presence or anything. I just don't dig it. If that's elitism, so be it. Second of all, I don't know the thread you mean. Third of all, I do see a distinction---IQ is something that generally is very much developed either at a young age and/or you're born with. Your IQ changes very little from the time you're even as young as three or four years old and throughout your life. It, like physical appearance, is not really earned, in most cases. So, it is different from achievements, like an education in that way. Also it seems a bit strange to make someone take an IQ test before the first date. If someone were obviously less intelligent than me -- by far -- I'd probably not dig them either, though, so I can get the general sentiment, and it would depend upon how it was expressed, perhaps. How is a PhD in underwater basketweaving better than a career diploma or certificate? Again, it's not about better. Though I didn't know there WAS a PhD program for underwater basketweaving. Any PhD is going to require a massive amount of research and work, no matter the subject. There is no "easy" PhD. Frankly, mine is one of the easiest (Administration in Education and Counseling), and it's not easy. Also, the idea of better gets so confounded here. I'm not judging a person's character and sole worth as a human being in every possible context by saying I don't want to date someone who is not educated and passionate about their education --- I'm judging them as a potential mate for me, personally. So is this woman. If the parameters didn't match, you both saved time. Hurrah! Or, to be quite simple, I go with what EasyHeart says: The bottom line is that we are all entitled to be attracted to whatever we find attractive.
Woggle Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I have a college degree but I can honestly say that 90% of what I know I did not learn in a classroom. It is simply a piece of paper for the most part and a really smart person can find ways to make money outside of a classroom. To me building yourself up from nothing is one of the most impressive things a person can do. I tend to not to be too crazy about people who know very little struggle. There are also many people who have advanced degrees upon degrees but know almost nothing about life. They don't know how to successfully have relationships romantic and otherwise and they lack a certain human quality to them that is hard to explain. It is something that can only be obtained by truly living in the world outside of the classroom.
carhill Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Second of all, I don't know the thread you mean. I think this is the thread that MrLonelyone is referring to. As someone who has a wide variety of friends, my life experiences tend to mirror GorillaTheater's. I've hammered nails and pulled electrical and rebuilt carbs and drank beer with with a wide variety of advanced degree holders and found them uniformly pleasant and interesting people to be around. Some have become friends over the years. I presume they have a similar opinion of me, based on our interactions. In my case, my educational and career experience and economic status substantially exceeded that of my now exW, but I still viewed her as an equal partner in our marital relationship. IMO, as humans, we bring a variety of assets to the table, as well as liabilities, and finding synergy in that mix is elemental to a healthy relationship of any sort, romantic or platonic. The lady in the OP apparently feels she can only find such synergy with someone of equal or greater educational and academic experience. I hope that works out for her. I would be interested to read, for informational purposes only, what the rest of her parameters were/are for a potential mate and, concurrently, what she brings to the table besides sterling academic and career credentials. I know rednecks living in a single-wide who drink beer and play with shot guns around a bonfire woudn't be compatible with a holder of a Ph.D Well, no gun play, but we have been known to occupy single-wides and drink beer on the weekends, yup, with some of those same folks, including the doctorate holders. It's called RV'ing and one's neck does get a bit red on occasion.
Star Gazer Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 The woman mentioned in the OP VALUES education and success (two different things). There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with her or anyone else seeking a mate who shares her VALUES.
ivalm Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 As a 22 year old male in a middle of getting PhD in physics here are my thoughts. I don't think PhD is a requirements, in fact many of the girls in my age range haven't even completed their undergrads, but at the same time I would find it a red flag if the girl is older than 20 but not in college, even if just community college. I understand people can be VERY well educated without having formal education. My favorite poet, Joseph Brodsky, didn't finish high school, but this didn't preclude him from writing wonderful poems and essays and winning the Nobel Prize in Literature However, in the US (and presumably Europe) education is VERY accessible (I don't have student loans, my parents paid very little for me, I went/going to a top school). Even my friends who did poorly in HS, a few went to community colleges here in Cal and transfered to Berkley/UCLA/UCSD. I guess, the point is that being formally uneducated is not bad in and of itself but is an indicator that the girl is unmotivated or lazy. What I really want is someone who appreciates theater, art, and classical music, someone who is knowledgeable about geopolitics and economics, someone who has a good (somewhat subjective) taste in books and films. People with more formal education tend to satisfy these criteria more often than people with less formal education. Again, there are ignoramuses with PhDs, just as there are high school drop outs with deep insight and knowledge, but statistically it's usually reverse.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Academics being snobby, picky, and having an undeserved sense of importance? Big surprise there. Considering there's more comically immature infighting among grad students and faculty members than when I was in middle school on the playground, it's no surprise that their petty tomfoolery would bleed into their love lives as well. But hey, if getting paid diddly-squat for 5 to 8 years working on something that 17 people in the whole world care about, only to be followed by a horrifically bad academic job market is your cup of tea, so be it. I'd rather date someone who's work will actually be consequential. Most of what Ph.D's do quite frankly has no impact on anything save for the insular and petty group of intellectuals who mentally masturbate over it. And I say that as someone who was once an aspiring Ph.D. I thankfully snapped out of that nonsensical nightmare and went to law school. Go to med school. Law school. Pharmacy School. Get a Masters in Speech Pathology or Social Work. Art school even. Do science or engineering at the Masters level and then enter the work force. A previous poster said it best. Most Ph.D's are in fact overkill. The people who hold them and seek them are frequently "overkill" as well. And just for laughs (and truth) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XViCOAu6UC0 Edited March 24, 2011 by TheBigQuestion
mogul Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 There are also many people who have advanced degrees upon degrees but know almost nothing about life. They don't know how to successfully have relationships romantic and otherwise and they lack a certain human quality to them that is hard to explain. It is something that can only be obtained by truly living in the world outside of the classroom. This is exactly the point I'm trying to get across to Zengirl. Many of my close friends have advanced degrees and we get along extremely well. The fact that I do not possess a degree does not make me incompetent to have an intellectual conversation. The notion that all people who don't have a degree are simple minded is a very ignorant and narrow minded view honestly. Again, not saying all, but I find that many people who put a lot of emphasis on education and advanced degrees feel they are lacking in other aspects of their lives. They are sheltered for many years at university and lack the ability to pick up on social cues in the real world. Their interactions are limited to their peers and lack networking skills with prospective employers, clients, market base etc. Third of all, I do see a distinction---IQ is something that generally is very much developed either at a young age and/or you're born with. What are your thoughts on people like myself? I had the opportunity to pursue my education and potentially get a DBA, but I had an immediate opportunity and have since bypassed the need for a degree through experience and results. I was accepted, I could of easily gone that route. Does that suddenly make me a less intelligent individual because I don't have a degree? Whats to say that because someone has an advanced degree, I am not interested in them because they lack the ability to earn a healthy income? I see so many people with advanced degrees working jobs that aren't financially rewarding and they are miserable. Would you say that was a good investment on their parts? 6+ years in school and over 100k in tuition, only to make a little more than the average american income. Opportunity costs.
EasyHeart Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 The woman mentioned in the OP VALUES education and success (two different things). There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with her or anyone else seeking a mate who shares her VALUES.I value a nice ass. I guess I am an elitist, too. Or maybe an ass-litist.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I value a nice ass. I guess I am an elitist, too. Or maybe an ass-litist. This is something I can get behind both literally and figuratively
zengirl Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) This is exactly the point I'm trying to get across to Zengirl. Many of my close friends have advanced degrees and we get along extremely well. The fact that I do not possess a degree does not make me incompetent to have an intellectual conversation. I did not say it would. That is not the issue. I have some friends who do not have degrees. It's not what I'd want in a life partner (or thus in a boyfriend) is all. I do not feel like I couldn't have a conversation with someone who doesn't have a Bachelors. I totally could. Just not a relationship. What are your thoughts on people like myself? I had the opportunity to pursue my education and potentially get a DBA, but I had an immediate opportunity and have since bypassed the need for a degree through experience and results. I was accepted, I could of easily gone that route. Does that suddenly make me a less intelligent individual because I don't have a degree? It means you don't value what I value. It means you don't love and engage in study formally. It means you think education is a means to career, and fed career and materialism (money) rather than the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. Whats to say that because someone has an advanced degree, I am not interested in them because they lack the ability to earn a healthy income? I see so many people with advanced degrees working jobs that aren't financially rewarding and they are miserable. Would you say that was a good investment on their parts? 6+ years in school and over 100k in tuition, only to make a little more than the average american income. Opportunity costs. I have a Masters and perhaps make less than many. I'm a teacher. We don't get paid well. With my PhD (which is half funded by the state, and the rest is mostly funded by grants, so I'm lucky, but I paid out of pocket for the Masters with savings from a much more lucrative previous career), I'll likely make a LOT more, but that's not why I'm getting it and I'll likely stay in the same position, with close to the same money, for awhile before actually evolving into the opportunities my PhD will allow me to pursue. Money doesn't matter to me. Education does. You are expressing that different things matter to you. That's fine. Everyone chooses what matters to them, individually. For you, it's more about money. I don't like dating people who approach careers that way. For what it's worth, I'm not offended if someone doesn't want to date me because I don't make enough money. Edited March 24, 2011 by zengirl
PinkInTheLimo Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Oops, posted message in the wrong thread. Edited March 25, 2011 by PinkInTheLimo
yah Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I don't think it is wrong to value education. I don't think education is a measure of success per say, but to hold a tenured faculty position sounds pretty successful to me. To answer your Q, I'm in my last year of my PhD program, and I would want my partner to have a BS or MS. After 4yrs in grad school, I actually DON'T want to date a phd-holder (because I don't want to be an academic) - 1 per relationship is enough, IMO.
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