Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 25, 2011 Author Posted March 25, 2011 We talked on the phone this morning. He continues to say that if I would have told him THEN, that I cheated on him, that he would have left me THEN. That everything that has happened since then is a wash, because we shouldn't even be here to this point. That things would have ended THEN, and we would have gone down completely different paths. He says that it doesn't change what he did, and that it was just as wrong as what I did, but his actions don't make mine okay and make him change his mind. The two wrongs don't balance each other out. If he hadn't cheated, he would want to leave me, so the fact that he cheated too, doesn't wipe that out.
Memphis Raines Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 I think you both should divorce. I don't know about you, but as a man who had a wife cheat, and I am just talking about how I view it as a man, but not all men, he will never get it out of his head. Even if you two stay together and it seems that things are working out, trust me, he will always have a level of resentment. I don't see this being worked out to where he can just go back to normal. Too much has been done. I think you two need to talk about divorce.
whichwayisup Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 We talked on the phone this morning. He continues to say that if I would have told him THEN, that I cheated on him, that he would have left me THEN. That everything that has happened since then is a wash, because we shouldn't even be here to this point. That things would have ended THEN, and we would have gone down completely different paths. He says that it doesn't change what he did, and that it was just as wrong as what I did, but his actions don't make mine okay and make him change his mind. The two wrongs don't balance each other out. If he hadn't cheated, he would want to leave me, so the fact that he cheated too, doesn't wipe that out. I guess the only option is, to divorce and go your separate ways. Only deal with eachother when it comes to the kids, the house and finances. Talk to a lawyer, protect yourself, and let your H know that a D should happen since it seems HE wants out. He's not said it *yet* but it's coming.
PorkRinds Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 We talked on the phone this morning. He continues to say that if I would have told him THEN, that I cheated on him, that he would have left me THEN. That everything that has happened since then is a wash, because we shouldn't even be here to this point. That things would have ended THEN, and we would have gone down completely different paths. He says that it doesn't change what he did, and that it was just as wrong as what I did, but his actions don't make mine okay and make him change his mind. The two wrongs don't balance each other out. If he hadn't cheated, he would want to leave me, so the fact that he cheated too, doesn't wipe that out. If you really want to save your marriage, you should basically just let him vent as long as he needs to and not try to win any arguments about who's right and wrong with this stuff. Just keep telling him how much you love him and how sorry you are.
bentnotbroken Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 If you really want to save your marriage, you should basically just let him vent as long as he needs to and not try to win any arguments about who's right and wrong with this stuff. Just keep telling him how much you love him and how sorry you are. I agree with this. If you want it...fight for it.
PorkRinds Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I think that there is enough good there to work this out. I think I can forgive him and move forward and try to make our marriage better. I would like to go to MC and see if there is hope for us. Your ability to forgive him is not the problem. His ability to forgive you is what will make this difficult. You are MUCH further along in this process than your H is, you are YEARS beyond where he is right now. You are going to have to be VERY patient with him. Edited March 25, 2011 by PorkRinds
ver13 Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Your post is heart wrenching thats for sure and you both have added extra pain to an already complicated situation by having kids to deal with while you go through your adult games. Look the lying on your part set the stage for all of this 12yrs is quite a while to hold on to something that important. Your H actions can't be excused either just because he felt something was wrong doesn't warrent cheating. But now you both need to put the welfare of your family foremost in everything that you consider from here on out. The kids deserve better then this so stop thinking about you from now on and get with what you two need to do to stablize you relationship so that the kids can have a health living space. If it means seperation or D work it out ASAP and get back to working on raising the babies. Your bickering like little kids about who did what to who first instead of acting like adults. " I did it I was wrong and now I'll do what ever it takes to fix it" for the good of the family not for myself.
hoping2heal Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 He has packed up some clothes and other items and is going to stay with family because he says he needs his space. He said that he doesn't think he can ever trust me enough to want be in a relationship with me again. That I should have told him back then, that it was his right to know. Especially before we chose to have kids. He said he looked to the other women he slept with because I wasn't giving him what he needed and that he always suspected there was more to the story than I had told him. He also doesn't believe me that I only slept with the one guy and made out with the other. He questions why I didn't sleep with the second man since I already had with the first. Your husband really has some nerve. Firstly, you cheated and he cheated and you BOTH need to own up to it. His rationalizing his cheating by using the way you were acting is nothing more but an excuse . It is not your fault that he cheated on you, any more than it is his fault that you cheated. Cheating is bad and destructive but it sounds like you cheated as a way out. There are a lot of talks about how cheating is done because people are selfish, want their cake and eat it too, etc. However, there is little mention of cheating as a way to sabotage relationships or create exits. At the time, you did not take personal accountability for why you felt so poorly about yourself or your life and I think the pressure of marriage was overwhelming for you and it is likely you also were not sure you could live up to the expectations either. I think you got scared and tried to ruin your own marriage so you could be done with it, and then when reality hit your true feelings came forcing through. While you did not take responsibility then, it sounds to me like you are trying your best to do it now. I really hope your H comes to his senses and realizes that his cheating was just as bad and he does not get to use you as an excuse. That does not mean he has to stay in the marriage but he really cannot come at you for how bad your infidelity is, when he will not even own up to his own.
Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 25, 2011 Author Posted March 25, 2011 He has admitted that he feels his cheating is actually worse. At the time, we had two small children at home, and he knowingly left the house with the intention of sleeping with one of the women. He has accepted responsibility for what he did, that he made the choices and knew full well what the potential consequences would be if I were to find out. I think he is suprised though that I am not just throwing in the towel now that I know. I am not giving him a free pass by any means, but I think there is enough there to work to fix everything, and hopefully forgive him and move forward. He say he takes responsibility for his actions, but that the path he ultimately was on, was related to his suspicions that I was lying about what happened with my situation, and the awful things I had said to him. That when I told him that I didnt love him, wished I hadn't married him, and didn't find him attractive or want to have sex or even kiss him, that ever since, he's had this subconscious need to prove me wrong. to find the validation that I denied him from someone else if I wouldn't give it to him. That he knew it was wrong, and the decisions and path he took were his own, but that the seed was planted by me, and he's never been able to get over me telling him all those awful things. I feel awful for the things I said to him back then, and honestly he has brought up my lack of passion toward him numerous times over the years, and I just haven't been able to change how I act toward him. I know I could have and should have talked about my secrets sooner, and maybe that would have helped me with my intimacy issues.
What_Next Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Hoping2heal, I don't see it as her husband having a lot of nerve. Give the man time to process what happened. He has already told her that he realizes what he did was wrong. This situation is incredibly complex to say the least. I agree that if you really want your marriage, then fight for it. Just not right now. Let your husband know you love him. You BOTH did wrong, you BOTH know it. You BOTH have to own your part of what you BOTH did. Your husband is in shock. Pure and simple. I can empathize totally, as in my marriage, my wife had an affair, then I had a revenge affair. 2 wrongs DO NOT make a right. At the time when I did what I did I couldn't see the forest for the trees.
bentnotbroken Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 He has admitted that he feels his cheating is actually worse. At the time, we had two small children at home, and he knowingly left the house with the intention of sleeping with one of the women. He has accepted responsibility for what he did, that he made the choices and knew full well what the potential consequences would be if I were to find out. I think he is suprised though that I am not just throwing in the towel now that I know. I am not giving him a free pass by any means, but I think there is enough there to work to fix everything, and hopefully forgive him and move forward. He say he takes responsibility for his actions, but that the path he ultimately was on, was related to his suspicions that I was lying about what happened with my situation, and the awful things I had said to him. That when I told him that I didnt love him, wished I hadn't married him, and didn't find him attractive or want to have sex or even kiss him, that ever since, he's had this subconscious need to prove me wrong. to find the validation that I denied him from someone else if I wouldn't give it to him. That he knew it was wrong, and the decisions and path he took were his own, but that the seed was planted by me, and he's never been able to get over me telling him all those awful things. I feel awful for the things I said to him back then, and honestly he has brought up my lack of passion toward him numerous times over the years, and I just haven't been able to change how I act toward him. I know I could have and should have talked about my secrets sooner, and maybe that would have helped me with my intimacy issues. Deal with your issues of intimacy, deceit and whatever else you feel needs to be worked on. Work on your contribution to an unhealthy marriage, don't let him lay that crap about you planting a seed for his choices. He is a grown butt man. He needs to deal with his inability to act maturely no matter what you did. I have done things I am not proud of. I hurt Mr. Messy with words and actions. I own those things, I have worked on things and I can't go back and change any of it. But his use of my actions as a reason for his own, made me see he needs to grow some jewels and own his crap.
hoping2heal Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 He has admitted that he feels his cheating is actually worse. At the time, we had two small children at home, and he knowingly left the house with the intention of sleeping with one of the women. He has accepted responsibility for what he did, that he made the choices and knew full well what the potential consequences would be if I were to find out. I think he is suprised though that I am not just throwing in the towel now that I know. I am not giving him a free pass by any means, but I think there is enough there to work to fix everything, and hopefully forgive him and move forward. He say he takes responsibility for his actions, but that the path he ultimately was on, was related to his suspicions that I was lying about what happened with my situation, and the awful things I had said to him. That when I told him that I didnt love him, wished I hadn't married him, and didn't find him attractive or want to have sex or even kiss him, that ever since, he's had this subconscious need to prove me wrong. to find the validation that I denied him from someone else if I wouldn't give it to him. That he knew it was wrong, and the decisions and path he took were his own, but that the seed was planted by me, and he's never been able to get over me telling him all those awful things. I feel awful for the things I said to him back then, and honestly he has brought up my lack of passion toward him numerous times over the years, and I just haven't been able to change how I act toward him. I know I could have and should have talked about my secrets sooner, and maybe that would have helped me with my intimacy issues. Sad, the reason I say he is not taking responsibility is because it always comes back to YOU. Just as you mentioned in the second paragraph, he says he cheated as an end result of a seed you planted. The fact that he says his cheating is worse, yada yada yada that is kind of irrelevant when he reinforces the fact that what caused him to cheat was words you said, or actions you did. Now, what you did hurt him deeply understandably. I went through something similar earlier on in my RS with some things that he said to me at the time out of anger, but it caused many things to fester and for a long time I felt he did not desire me and want me as a result. I did not go out and cheat or take up other men on their advances simply because I was feeling that way. It probably is surprising to him, yes. It is probably humbling, really. I am not saying you need to leave him or your M is not worth saving, I am just totally miffed that he is not taking any responsibility and I hope at some point he will, as it stands..no matter how bad he tells you he thinks his cheating was, as long as the reason for it keeps being you, something you did, or you said that is most assuredly NOT taking responsibility for his actions.
Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 26, 2011 Author Posted March 26, 2011 When we talk, his anger seems to come and go. He will be fine during one conversation, and then something will trigger him and the anger and resentment come back. He says that he can't imagine touching me or having sex with me ever again. That over time, he will be able to forgive me, but doesn't think that he will ever be able to trust me enough to be in a relationship with me again.
PorkRinds Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 When we talk, his anger seems to come and go. He will be fine during one conversation, and then something will trigger him and the anger and resentment come back. He says that he can't imagine touching me or having sex with me ever again. That over time, he will be able to forgive me, but doesn't think that he will ever be able to trust me enough to be in a relationship with me again. He's testing you. He may not realize it. He wants to make sure you love him, "no matter what." This is the "no matter what." This is going to take a long time, but he still loves you. If he wanted to leave, nothing is really stopping him. Remember: It took you 12 years after your indiscretions before you could even admit them to him. He's only five years beyond his; and he's even admitted that he perceives his transgressions as WORSE than yours. In his soul, what he is afraid of is not that he can't ever love you again, because he still does. What he is deathly afraid of is that what you said all those years ago--that he is UNWORTHY of YOUR love, that he is in essence a worthless human being--was actually TRUE. That you were right all along. He believes that when he cheated on you, he PROVED that you were right about him being unworthy of being loved. He is afraid that the statements you made way back at the start were a prophecy and his actions of cheating, which he KNEW were wrong when he did them (he's admitted that), were a fulfillment of the prophecy. This is doable but will be difficult not just because of what happened but because you are going to have to carry more than 50% of the burden, at least for a while. Somehow, someway, you have to convince him that you do not think he is a worthless human being, and that he is worthy of your love. He is not going to believe you because he does not believe it himself. He does not want to risk loving you again only to be rejected again, EVEN IF--maybe especially if--he knows you have good grounds to reject him (if you want) since he now, IS, as a cheater, worthy of being rejected. I still think it's possible to save your marriage because unlike many other situations of this nature the two of you are taking responsibility for your errors to a large extent and you are communicating pretty well about this stuff. It's going to be very difficult but you will have to be your family's calm rock in a very stormy sea. And you will have to give it time. Lots of time. In fact I wouldn't set any firm time limits on this. You may find this process of repair and recovery will take years.
PorkRinds Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 When we talk, his anger seems to come and go. His emotions are overwhelming him. This is to be expected. Try not to take it too personally. He will be fine during one conversation, and then something will trigger him and the anger and resentment come back. Also typical. Again, if he needs to vent, allow him space to do that. Logically arguing will not accomplish anything. He says that he can't imagine touching me or having sex with me ever again. Believe it or not, this is also quite a typical reaction, but it can also morph into "hysterical bonding" (intense need to mate like bunny rabbits) on an unpredictable basis. If that happens, and it will probably happen sooner rather than later, roll with it and enjoy it while it lasts (sometimes it never stops!) Physical intimacy, to the extent it can be reestablished, will help rebuild your emotional connection immensely. Don't force the issue and just say: "I understand how you feel and I am here for you whenever you are ready. However long that takes." IOW total acceptance of his essence--no judgment of the things he has done. That over time, he will be able to forgive me, but doesn't think that he will ever be able to trust me enough to be in a relationship with me again. Again quite natural. Same response: "I understand how you feel. But in spite of everything I still love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you. I will wait as long as it takes." Impossible? No. Difficult? Yes. Worth it, if you can pull it off? YES.
sweetlife Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 what I can tell you is to be pacient a lot, and as some else wrote here, if you are a christian person, I will advise you to pray, pray, pray. I feel for you so much b'se I went thru. something similar exept I did not quite answers my H's questions so I could off save myself alot of pain. it seem you are doing great at keeping the communication going. I do not know where i will be if i had not trusted the powers that God has for us. I prayed for myself but i also pray for my H a lot. so put your marriage in the hands of higher being and keep doing your work and your H well end up knowning that it can be worth trying. It is been only 6 months for us and I do see a lot of improvement for our marriage but the first 3 months it was hell for both of us but now we enjoy moments of happyness. what I am saying is that little by little things start getting better.
Bryanp Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 How do you think you would have been feeling if your husband said to you the things that you said to him? You totally destroyed his self-esteem as a man and a husband. What did you expect to happen after you said such awful things to him?
Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 26, 2011 Author Posted March 26, 2011 I think I was so scared of intimacy and unhappy with myself, that I was doing whatever I could to try and push him away. I wanted to hurt him because I blamed him for me being unhappy. I was angry at myself, but it was easier to be mad at him. In the grand scheme of things, I looked at myself and thought I was unworthy of being his wife. that I was unfixable and so was our marriage. So I guess it was my way of trying to push him away, because in reality, it was me that felt worthless and like a piece of garbage. I fell horrible for saying those things and making him feel that way. If I could take them back I would. I didn't mean them, it was just my way of trying to cope with what bad person and bad wife I felt like. It's easiest to hurt those closest to us.
whichwayisup Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 When we talk, his anger seems to come and go. He will be fine during one conversation, and then something will trigger him and the anger and resentment come back. He says that he can't imagine touching me or having sex with me ever again. That over time, he will be able to forgive me, but doesn't think that he will ever be able to trust me enough to be in a relationship with me again. Doesn't he realize that HE slept with two women and although the time frame is different than yours (his 5 years and yours 12 years ago) that he has done the SAME THING AS YOU?? You feel sick towards him too and probably have less trust for him as well. I hate to say it but I think he's using what you did as an exit so now he doesn't have to take responsibility for his cheating ways, he's putting this ALL on you. Right now it doesn't matter who cheated first, fact is, he STILL cheated and didn't tell you either. You atleast confessed, first. Years later, but still.. If you hadn't spoken of this, he would probably not have brought up his cheating. it seems he doesn't want to try. It's his out.
SoulStorm Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 It's easiest to hurt those closest to us. It is also a great show of cowardice. It is brave to admit that you have a problem and deal with it. It is cowardly to blame your own shortcomings on someone else. It shows more weakness to deflect your feelings of inadequacy on others.
Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 26, 2011 Author Posted March 26, 2011 It was very cowardly of me to act that way, and I have told him I took the cowards way out and I am sorry for acting that way. He understands that he has done the same things to me, and has said he feels what he did is worse. If he can't be in a relationship with me because of his feelings of hurt and betrayal, I can't change him. He's entitled to his own feelings. He said that just because I am willing to try to forgive him and make things work, that he doesn't have to feel that way. That everyone deals with things differently and some people can get over things easier than others. I plan on being patient and hopefully once the initial feelings calm down, he'll see things differently or at least be open to going to counseling.
Author SadDazedConfused Posted March 26, 2011 Author Posted March 26, 2011 As far as me divulging things first, I did, but honestly, between my guilt and the idea that he'd eventually find out, that was why I told him. I wasn't trying to be the bigger person. He had actually asked me about it recently, he almost seemed like he had new information that made him ask again. He asked what the guy's name was, because he had noticed I was friends with a few guys with the same first name on FB. That made me of course start worrying again about him finding out.
SoulStorm Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 It was very cowardly of me to act that way, and I have told him I took the cowards way out and I am sorry for acting that way. He understands that he has done the same things to me, and has said he feels what he did is worse. If he can't be in a relationship with me because of his feelings of hurt and betrayal, I can't change him. He's entitled to his own feelings. He said that just because I am willing to try to forgive him and make things work, that he doesn't have to feel that way. That everyone deals with things differently and some people can get over things easier than others. I plan on being patient and hopefully once the initial feelings calm down, he'll see things differently or at least be open to going to counseling. You have learned a very hard lesson. This lesson will teach you patience. There is always a balance. For what we put out..we must also be able to receive or endure.
linwood Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 The guilt has been eating at me since it all happened, and I know it's wrong to keep it from him, but should I destroy our marriage now because of something I did 12 years ago? Be careful of the advice you take from here SDC most here are very bitter betrayed spouses who can`t think of anything else but their own pain. If you could tell your husband without ending your marriage it might allow you to rid yourself of your guilty feelings. But.. If telling your husband is going to destroy your marriage I say eat the guilt and keep moving on. If what the two of you have is a good thing now and your children are happy and growing don`t destroy that to sooth your own conscience. Sooth your conscience by making up for it each and every day, be the wife he deserves.
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 Be careful of the advice you take from here SDC most here are very bitter betrayed spouses who can`t think of anything else but their own pain. If you could tell your husband without ending your marriage it might allow you to rid yourself of your guilty feelings. But.. If telling your husband is going to destroy your marriage I say eat the guilt and keep moving on. If what the two of you have is a good thing now and your children are happy and growing don`t destroy that to sooth your own conscience. Sooth your conscience by making up for it each and every day, be the wife he deserves. Linwood, read the full thread. The advice she's been given has been helpful no need to do the "bitter BS thing" it's getting old around here.. She did tell her husband the truth, and he confessed that he TOO, cheated twice. He is upset and pissed off at her, making her feel worthless and blaming her too, all the meanwhile he's just as guilty as she is by cheating. I give her kudos for coming clean and owing her mistakes and bad choices.. He on the otherhand, hasn't fully done that and is pushing her away.
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