Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) I was reading a thread in OW/OM forum, and was really struck by how the OW described the affair with MM. It was truly eye opening as she talked very honestly about her feelings and the upcoming battle with BS. Most of us in this forum have been betrayed . We want a monogamous marriage, relationship. IE: I miss my ex. I miss my family. I'm lonely and sad many days. I am also the happiest, content person, at times that I have ever been. The roller-coaster is slowing way down, even though the tears and heartache are still here, just not nearly as much. It has been 1 1/2 yrs since dday. This particular thread/OW, she is going back after her MM after a 8 yr hiatus, where she even married and had kids. She is now divorced. She loves him to much to not fight for him. What I am trying to say and show is this; why oh why do some of the BS's want these kind of people back in their lives after they show their true colors? OW, wants a man that is cheating, lieing, etc for many years to his BS. Human beings that can do this are broken(alcoholism) and will never be completely healed and fixed. I don't think it can happen. Why do you want to live with this? I truly believe you are needy, broken, co-dependent, etc, if you want this back in your life. WS's and OW/OM are a breed among themselves. We can't be part of that, can we? Not me. In the saddest and most trying days, I don't have to think about where my WW is, and what she might be doing behind my back. I blamed myself for along time. They are who they are. If you take them back, you will be on here for life, I truly believe. You can never truly heal. Its done, gone, weight off your shoulders. I would think there is less then 5% chance someone could truly change. Thoughts, feelings towards others is still cheating. The best of the best are on here daily, people I truly respect and value their opinions. Acceptance is hard. Thoughts? Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
Owl Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 It really depends on the circumstances. My wife had poor boundaries, and little understanding of how relationships are built. That, combined with undiagnosed depression and other stressors led to her making the seriously bad choices that led to her starting an EA. After the EA was ended, she truly became remorseful, learned about relationships, got treatment for her depression, and has since learned and implemented massively improved boundaries to prevent this from happening again. I trust her again. I'm not co-dependent, needy, etc... I'm good. We're good. Things changed for the better. I wouldn't be in any better straights at this point had we not reconciled.
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Owl I believe you. I think a one time EA is different. Even then, I see how much work you put in to reconcile. I'm prolly more on the EA to PA affair and beyond, which most affairs are. I am not down playing the severity of your situation however. After seeing the dynamics of your situation, it made my situation even more impossible to fathom reconcilation. Even though, at one time I would have. Thank goodness I gave myself some time to figure it all out. I now think if BS's would sit back and do this, the vast majority would then move on. On a funny note: I now deliver a morning newspaper to OM, and do it with a smile and I chuckle every morning as I throw his paper on his porch. Oh the pain at one time as I camped in a vacant field next to his home, watching them play patty cake. There are times when I want write him a thank-you note and wish him luck haha (Although, at times I want to do something evil to his paper) LOL Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
What_Next Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 In my case I really (and I mean really) always believed any cheating on either side and it is over. There is no second chance. That was my view. In all honesty I didn't put much thought to it beyond that. That mindset came to life on D-day. There was no "decision" for me as such. It was already made. I immeadiately moved to get my own place, seperate finances, move out etc. Also go out in search of someone else. I thought that was the end of it. Well not so. For me it's not a matter of a person "changing" in the strict definition. My wife and I now fully understand what lead her to her affair. Not only that, but she fully comprehends the impact it had. Our relationship is in the very early stages of recovery, but I feel it will. It is a process, it is an evolution of sorts. I dispise what she did, in fact I dispise what I did in the aftermath, but the past cannot be changed. It can be learned from and it can help shape the future though. Round about answer I know, even rambling; sorry about that...
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Golf, Eat, Drink, hang with buddies when and how long you want. Freedom A little strange if needed. Its really pretty good (The positives on good days) which outweigh the bad ones PS these were put on hold pretty much to be there for the significant other for years. Now that the puppy is away, the cat can play;) Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
WorldIsYours Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 A one time EA is not different. They are just as destructive as having a physical affair.
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 A one time EA is not different. They are just as destructive as having a physical affair. That came off wrong. For me its different in the reconcilation game. At least for me:)
Yasuandio Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Detachment Delimma: Case Study Strong, macho man, works out and lifts weights at the gym no less than 5 days a week. I'm ashamed to state how many complete years he denied me intimacy. The aformentioned could suggest a number of things. However, for years I bought the excuses, "I'm tired," "I need to wind down," etc. Since our separation over 2 years ago, like a stupid idiot, I have held out hope, reading whatever I could into any call, facial expression, pattern of behavior, analysis of phone call and return call frequency, tone of voice, content as well as presummed unspoken content, body language, you name it, I have over analyzed it to obsessive dimensions. I recently became finished with this fruitless and neurotic activity. I am doing everything in my power to detatch from him. There are a couple things that continue to occur never ceases to perplex me, and keep me from detatching and removing my mind from subject. A few cases in point: 1) husband denies over and over there has and still is not any one else. But I have seen him many time with in his convertible, with the top down, with the same young lady. I have spotted her driving that car alone. One time we slowly passed each other on a small side street. He and his gal were just turning out, and I was just turning. We both happened to have our Z3 tops down, and I had my glasses on. My distant vision is dead accuate aanyway though. I brought to his attention, and can you believe he claimed that I really did not see what I saw!!! My husband knows I'm a smart, highly educated woman. He clearly doesn't want me any more. WHY. Can someone please tell me WHY does he feel the need to gaslight me when he has made it abundantly clear that the marriage is OVER? 2) it is fine with me that H continues to see my MD. But why is it, that I have had to change the phone record on his account a dozen times? Just last Friday, the nurse phoned to ask me to pass the word that Doctor would not refill presciption without seeing him. Again, I explained we were divorcing, and provided proper corrected records. 2.5) Even in suburbian Atlanta, there are hundreds of pharmacies. I have been useing the Kroger shopping center down the street for years. H now lives and works in a completely different area, both are different suburbs. There must be at least 10 Kroger grocery stores to choose from. However, the evening I heard from the doctor, I also got a call from Chistopher (at my Krogers) stating that doctor had refused to H medication. Actually, maybe I was reading something into it, Chistoper was mighty surprised to hear my voice on the other end of the phone. And seemed a bit sheepish, poor guy! I had just been in that day! They know me well there -- I fill at 12-15 scripts a month there. Which brings me to the problem. Now I feel I even have to look over my shoulder when I pick up my meds. It is not so easy to switch pharmacies due to special rates and comparitive rates this store has reseached for me as my meds cost a fortune. Even my store makes some mistakes - which is enevitable - but we always get thru it and I know everyone. 3). Three days later I begin getting H mail from new urologist. Unfortunently, I can see workshop information printed in bold though the envelope. Why, if H established himself at a new urologist, WHY, tell me WHY must he use my address? He has his own home address. He has his own bisiness where he likes his stuff sent. 4). H cruises my subdivision occasionally. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What Are The DYNAMICS of HOW? Ballerfamily and other LS Posters, I get the dynamics of why we need to move on after over two years of denial. It is these sorts of shinanagans that keep me spinning. I want desparately to detach, but I propose to Balletfamily that it is easier said than done. Especially when the dumped has a challenging illness. I would be honored if you could provide me with some direction that helped in your case. My marriage is 25 years, together 30. I am sure your any type insight along these lines could help others besides myself. Thank you very much for your post and consideration. Edited March 23, 2011 by Yasuandio
Owl Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I think the dynamics of recovery are pretty much the same whether its an EA, PA, or combo of the two. I'd also add that some people can forgive one or the other more easily than the other. For them, a PA without emotion may be easier to forgive than "falling in love" with someone else. Or for others it may be easier to forgive an "EA only" because there are no "mental pictures" to overcome. For others, they're all equally as devestating. I think that dealing with SERIAL cheating of any kind becomes a different critter entirely. But again...that's still just my opinion.
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) oh yes, I remember only to much. (25yr marriage, 30 yrs together) Been there, done with that. (AFFAIR FOG) They are like 2 yr olds, babbling crap and words that make no sense. Choose to look at actions, not their words. This really clarifies the situation. smells like a skunk, looks like a skunk, its a skunk They think we are so stupid, because are emotions are like a hurricane. We are hurt, we pine, etc, and feed their needy ego's, while they laugh at us. Read over 200 tm's from Ex's phone after seperation,(took it from her car) which showed me alot of how a cheater thinks. Totally amazing, and so hurtful. If BS's only knew the crap that is said and done, they would be horrified. Family, friends, support people, so you can vent. Understanding, analalizing why,understanding their minds, helped me so much.....LS Truly, truly sad. They are pathetic people. I pray for mine daily, that she may be able to function in the future. Her future is very bleak. Think about who they're in love with. Yikes. We are supposedly good people (BS) most of the time. They love these kind of animals more then us and their kids. No sir re for me. I'm better and deserve better then that. Get out with friends. Get on anxiety medicine for awhile(this helps so much. I thought the world was crashing). Do what you enjoy. Live it. Spend your own money for a change. Do what you want. One of my favorite activities is doing something I love, where when married I would have been taking care of the WW and family. This feels so good, and powerful. Good Luck, my prayers go out to you. Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
Yasuandio Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I really meant to profer a possible explanation why BS spouses have some issues letting go, even if the marriage was toxic, unhealthy, duplicious, etc. My theory is that marriages of decades such as mine can tie you mind, body, and soul. I have even seen long married couples that started looking like each other! I certainly have taken on many of my H's traits and tastes, can't deny that. Even after over two years, I yearn for him. I feel as if a piece of me has been torn away. I think denial is the only way I could survive up until now. I do not feel whole. And, IMO, I don't think I will ever feel whole. And I believe this is what I have to come to accept. Based on my current conclusions, deep love, created over two decades, does not evaporate, nor will it ever go away. It is a REAL tangable entity. H may not feel or value it right now, or ever. But it does exist. And at his and my age, creating a relationship of similar depth of love could take decades that may or may not be available. Furthermore, a 35, 40, 45, and 50th annaversary are life experiences that neither one of us is likely to achieve due to our life span. Therefore, I really don't think one can ever erase a decade or more of a shared life experience with a spouse they love. They will never fill that empty hole. That would be like trying to replace a deseased loved one, IMO.
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) I really meant to profer a possible explanation why BS spouses have some issues letting go, even if the marriage was toxic, unhealthy, duplicious, etc. My theory is that marriages of decades such as mine can tie you mind, body, and soul. I have even seen long married couples that started looking like each other! I certainly have taken on many of my H's traits and tastes, can't deny that. Even after over two years, I yearn for him. I feel as if a piece of me has been torn away. I think denial is the only way I could survive up until now. I do not feel whole. And, IMO, I don't think I will ever feel whole. And I believe this is what I have to come to accept. Based on my current conclusions, deep love, created over two decades, does not evaporate, nor will it ever go away. It is a REAL tangable entity. H may not feel or value it right now, or ever. But it does exist. And at his and my age, creating a relationship of similar depth of love could take decades that may or may not be available. Furthermore, a 35, 40, 45, and 50th annaversary are life experiences that neither one of us is likely to achieve due to our life span. Therefore, I really don't think one can ever erase a decade or more of a shared life experience with a spouse they love. They will never fill that empty hole. That would be like trying to replace a deseased loved one, IMO. Acceptance. I'm finally there. Let it go, and remember the good times. IT takes 4/5 yrs in situations like our's. Why I'm happy as a single for now. I need to be me again for a time. Its hard, because we truly love them. That is why. Now love them enough to let them figure it out, which they will eventually do. Your prolonging that with contact, etc. Let him see that you are good with your self. You must fake it till you make it, at least to him. Its powerful, believe me. LET GO!!!! Then, most likely after time you will not need him. A long lost friend Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
Yasuandio Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) OMG! "A long lost friend!" What does that mean????? Pleassssssssse tell me. Does it mean that I know you from somewhere? I may be heading for a manic episode. Edited March 23, 2011 by Yasuandio
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) OMG! "A long lost friend!" What does that mean????? Pleassssssssse tell me. Does it mean that I know you from somewhere? I may be heading for a manic episode. Sorry, meant they will become long lost friends. Sorry. I don't seem to be helping. Just thought of something else that helps me tremendously. If she can do without me, I can certainly do without her. Think about that. Edited March 23, 2011 by Ballerfamily
Yasuandio Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Forgive me, BF! I am so overanalytical! Your posts have helped me tremendously. I will carefully be dissecting them, tooth and nail, this evening, along with everything else I can find that you have written. May I ask you, to consider.....bearing in mind I am in nothing but constant NC. I mean I even have parental controls on my phones so I cannot dial him and he cannot dial me up. With my original story in mind, what do you make of all the coincidental contacts that never seem to stop coming my way? Why does this happen? I stay to myself. I've done nothing but NC. What does it all mean? PLEASE ADVISE, if you have the time or inclination. Thank you for all your insightful posts this far! Edited March 23, 2011 by Yasuandio
Author Ballerfamily Posted March 24, 2011 Author Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Y My ex does this also. At times she sobs and is silent. Other times she sez she is worried about me, hopes I am doing ok, etc. Wants to know if her little boy is ok, on the days I have them. I think just any kind of contact helps them get through there disspair when they're really down. My ex does it alot after she has been drinking, and all of a sudden misses the family. I think it also relieves the guilt, pretending they care. They think they do. Its just ludicrious when you think about. I personally kind of like the idea that they have to drive by, call, text, etc. It feels so powerful to ignor. I refuse to say negative things when I do have to talk, text, because of my children, and talk only of them. If she asks personal things, I smile and say I'm doing great. She can't hardly stand that I can do without her. It took a long time, but I'm there. It also shows me that she isn't happy and having the time of her life. It reassures me that I was important in her life, and for me that makes me feel good about myself. Edited March 24, 2011 by Ballerfamily
Yasuandio Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Dear BF, Firstly, let me thank you for your kind and personal response. I do agree, those drivebys give me somewhat of a bit of satisfaction. I would bet they are alcohol induced as well. I do not think I get as many warm fuzzy moments as you, as I suspect a portion of some I've beleived I've encountered, both my therapists found delusional. I count the one time eye contact when he was asked a certain question by his attorney. He had hid chance to elaborate and spill his guts on a particular topic, for some stupid reason, he now wants to challenge. However, when his eyes met mine, for the first time in over two years, and dispite all previous outlandish but classic narcissistic responses on the stand, he remained mute as he gazed at me. I think he felt for me if momentarily (only). That is the kind of thing I have been counting, even in the courtroom arena. The eye contact was so penitrating, or perhaps it was my imagination and I am delusional. Other things I counted were return phone calls after a fight where he say "don't call again." The next day I would recieve a kind and remorceful voicemail such as Yas, I am very sorry I got mad, and I want you to call me any time you want to." Of course, I have read too much into that, but have counted it. Not really sure what my point is BF. I guess Im trying to qualitatively compare our "after the fact" contacts with WS. I suppose this is me trying to look for comfort in the minute thread I am holding onto. It is so painful. And my personality is so obsessive. But again, thank you! Yas Edited March 24, 2011 by Yasuandio
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