Do you blame the betrayed spouse?

[OWoman]

owoman I am seriously shaking my head here in confusion.

 

You blame the bs for not being with him and yet you ARE with him. He wasn't one of these guys with excuses for not leaving. So how is it bs's fault?

 

You go on about her trying to commit suicide and yet this was when you were not even in the picture yet?

 

Were you ever really an other woman?

 

Where did I say I blamed her for not being with him? OTC, I said that stating a list of facts (such as 2sure listed) did NOT equate to blaming - unlike 2sure was asserting. 2sure claimed that OW stating those things were blaming the BW. I replied that those things were all true in my H's xW's case, so I could legitimately state them, but that that did NOT amount to blaming her. How could I blame her for him choosing to be with her, when he didn't? I was merely pointing out the flaw in the "logic" of that argument.

 

And yes, she did attempt suicide during a previous separation. And no, there was no infidelity involved in that separation. I met him subsequent to him allowing her back (after she'd broken the conditions of being allowed back). What is so hard to understand about that? The details are in numerous other threads on these boards if you're that interested. I don't see the point in prolonging a t/j for what is essentially a simple point.

[greengoddess]

yes he never really forgave his wife for her affair. Afterall his marriage was the result of her affair with him. Seems she never changed...

 

so yours was basically an exit affair. He was already gone and ready to leave. Thus the mm out of many you landed. It doesn't seem you were an ow for long.

 

The question of the thread was do you blame the bs and then you went on to list all the pathetic things she did...hmmm but they seem to have begun long before you and with HER being the repeat cheater in a second marriage...

[26pointblue]

Do you feel it is the betrayed spouses fault that you are not with your true love? Are they manipulating your love to keep the marriage? Are they using the children to keep their marriage intact?

 

If not for the manipulation of the betrayed spouse would you be living your happy ever after?

 

No, I don't think it's MM's wife's fault at all that he stays married. He's fully capable of making his own decisions. That one's all on him.

[greengoddess]

It's refreshing to see that most of the ow/om do not blame the bs. They know the blame is fully on the mm.

 

So why put up with it then if you know it is all on him?

[26pointblue]

It's refreshing to see that most of the ow/om do not blame the bs. They know the blame is fully on the mm.

 

So why put up with it then if you know it is all on him?

 

For me it's because I love him & the fact that the benefits of being with him outweigh the downfalls for me, for now. Whenever I'm with him, we have a fantastic time. Whenever I'm not with him, I smile when I think about him. It wasn't always that way, I used to be in a lot of pain & unhappiness. Now I'm just appreciating the good things & accepting that they are what they are. No one has known, loved or accepted me the way he does. And I don't feel that I've ever known, loved or accepted someone else the way I do him. To me that is an important connection that I'm not ready to give up yet. I won't stay with him forever but for now it is exactly what I want. So to me it doesn't feel like 'putting up with it.' It feels like I'm choosing it, & it works for me.

[Silly_Girl]

It's refreshing to see that most of the ow/om do not blame the bs. They know the blame is fully on the mm.

 

So why put up with it then if you know it is all on him?

 

gg - you have been on the boards a long time. Are you asking because you genuinely, even after all your reading and posting, have no grasp of what someone in an affair might say in response to that?

 

In your infidelity experience why did the OW/OM hang around, do you think?

[Got it]

It's refreshing to see that most of the ow/om do not blame the bs. They know the blame is fully on the mm.

 

So why put up with it then if you know it is all on him?

 

Put up with what? You are assuming that all OW want the MM to leave. For many, being in an EMR is a fine arrangement between the two of them for long term or short term.

 

I was the OW for a few years, this was an agreement I signed on to from the beginning when everything was laid out. We acknowledged a timeline, what he was suppose to be doing during that timeline, and go from there. If he didn't leave at that time, that was on him. The agreement started due to the solid answer that he was leaving his marriage and had given this much thought.

 

The agreement was between us, our arrangement was between us, BW didn't play a factor. Her affair played a factor for him getting to that starting point for us but as did many other issues tied up within their marriage.

 

Their marriage was between them and the issues in it. Now if the crux of our agreement turned out to be a falsehood because he did not think through his answer, did not give it the proper thought, or just lied, well that would have been fully on him.

 

I would not have excused lies to me, there was no need for them, or wanting to change the arrangement (though changing it would have meant me ending it). I treated him like a fully capable adult and expected the likewise.

 

But not everyone is looking for anything more than the arrangement they have. For many it works out quite nicely.

[ayjt80]

There is plenty of blame to go around. First and formost the cheating spouse by far. than the om/ow if they know about the spouse, they are far from innocent. using "the marriage isnt up to par" is a cop out. in fact i could understand how the om/ow can blame the innocent spouse, actions speak louder than words. And warped thinking lead to warped views. The very actions of both the Cheating spouse and the om/ow give testament that they could care less about the inocent spouse and any children involved.

[2sure]

I dont think many OW would be comfortable saying the words: "I blame BS" - even to themselves

 

But they often do. When they (OW) say:

She begged him to stay/come back, so he had to.

She is unable to take care of herself , so he has to.

She controls and manipulates him with the children.

 

Its all the same

 

A BS can do all of the above and more - but the bolded clearly indicates an OW who blames BS for choices their MM is making.

[Snowflower]

Shortly after the A ended and my H and I were in the very early stages of reconciliation, I read an email from the OW to my H which asked him, "Why are you trying to work things out with her? She doesn't treat you right." (OW's words).

 

If that isn't blaming the BS, I don't know what is!

 

I'm glad to see that most OW here don't appear to blame the BS if their MM returns to the marriage.

 

If the OW does blame the BS...then I think it is likely that she will assume that the BS will blame her (the OW) for somehow ensnaring the husband. Blame is just assumed.

[Snowflower]

My stepmother, ie the OW in my parents' marriage repeatedly telephoned and harassed my mother whilst my parents were going through all the will we/won't we stage after dday as witnessed by my brother and I. My father eventually left my mother believing my stepmother's version of events that she never ever called and my mother was making things up. If I ever attempted to tell the truth, my stepmother totally undermined me saying I was jealous/stirring/causing problems/sticking up for my b*tch of a mother. Thirty years later, I know I told the truth. I know my stepmother (ie the OW) did not. She manipulated my father into believing everybody else was lying except her. Nice.

 

That is truly a sad story. I hope your mother went on to have a very nice life despite all that.

 

Did your father ever realize what really happened?

[mzdolphin]

Do you feel it is the betrayed spouses fault that you are not with your true love? Are they manipulating your love to keep the marriage? Are they using the children to keep their marriage intact?

 

If not for the manipulation of the betrayed spouse would you be living your happy ever after?

 

No way. This isn't Pakistan where you could get stoned to death for some things. If a man(or woman) wants out of his marriage, he will get out. In my case because the MM lied to me (claimed he was single) I actually felt sorry for the BS. For years (I dated him when he was single) I envied her thinking she had won something I wanted. Then I realized wow, there was a reason I broke up him back then, he's not to be trusted. He still emails, calls, wants to hook up. I don't. I figure she knows (he's not careful at all) and just puts up with it. Horrible for her.

[anne1707]

That is truly a sad story. I hope your mother went on to have a very nice life despite all that.

 

No unfortunately not. In hindsight I could see she had a drink problem when I was a child but with the fall out from Dday, she fell into alcoholism. My relationship with her eventually broke down because of the way she changed as a result - extreme mood swings, emotionally abusive at times.

 

Did your father ever realize what really happened?

 

No. Whenever I did mention it, my stepmother made out that I was lying in an attempt to undermine her and support my mother. My father believed her and would get angry at me for lying.

[BB07]

I have thought about this question all day and once or twice started to post but backed out because I want to be honest here.

 

Well we know that xmm lied to me about being separated and that is when we started dating and then he lied about reconciling with her and for a period of time I was the OW and I knew it. So...........yes I blamed her back then, although I never came out and said it to him and he never came out and directly said anything really terrible about her. It was all so subtle as to how he played this angle of it and of course I was looking for good reasons as to why he shouldn't be married to her and why he was going to leave so I fed off of his lies and some of it was I deceived myself.

 

Years later when he and I started seeing each other again, (under the falsehood of the lie that he was separated, yes that is 2x), the final months I was told all kind of tall tales about how evil she was being and how she was out for revenge, blah, blah, blah, so yes I partly blamed her again. As most of you know...........I found out how wrong I was about everything.

[PorkRinds]

I have thought about this question all day and once or twice started to post but backed out because I want to be honest here.

 

Honesty is good.

 

Well we know that xmm lied to me about being separated

 

Even so, "separated" is still married, so you knew from square one you were dating a married man. Honesty.

 

and that is when we started dating and then he lied about reconciling with her and for a period of time I was the OW and I knew it.

 

...and so, even when you found out he wasn't separated, you continued to see him rather than break it off. That means the fact that he lied to you initially made no difference in your actions. Honesty.

 

 

So...........yes I blamed her back then, although I never came out and said it to him and he never came out and directly said anything really terrible about her.

 

Blaming her was dishonest. You had no reason to do so, he didn't even make anything up that was blameworthy.

 

 

It was all so subtle as to how he played this angle of it and of course I was looking for good reasons as to why he shouldn't be married to her and why he was going to leave so I fed off of his lies and some of it was I deceived myself.

 

You're still rationalizing what you did. He could have all kinds of good reasons not to be married to her, but you knew that he was. He could genuinely intend to leave her, but he hadn't. You didn't feed off his lies. You fed off your own lies. That's what you need to come to grips with.

 

It actually had nothing to do with this particular MM. If it wasn't him, you would have found someone else. Just as MM who want to cheat find OWs. If not one, then another will do just fine.

 

 

 

Years later when he and I started seeing each other again, (under the falsehood of the lie that he was separated, yes that is 2x)

 

Separated is still married, and by the way, by this time you knew he was lying to you again, because that's what he did the first time around. You're obviously very intelligent so you shouldn't pretend you actually believed him the second time he lied to you about being separated.

 

, the final months I was told all kind of tall tales about how evil she was being and how she was out for revenge, blah, blah, blah, so yes I partly blamed her again. As most of you know...........I found out how wrong I was about everything.

 

You knew how wrong you were from the very first time you agreed to be with him because you knew he was still a married man. You chose to ignore what you knew.

 

Don't get mad. Get honest.

[skylarblue]

Do you feel it is the betrayed spouses fault that you are not with your true love? Are they manipulating your love to keep the marriage? Are they using the children to keep their marriage intact?

 

If not for the manipulation of the betrayed spouse would you be living your happy ever after?

 

For me, it is the other way around. MM is the one who is manipulating the BS and using the children to keep the M intact. Since dday MM has been adamantly claiming that he and I were a one-time, lack of judgment, non-physical, spontaneous event in order to keep his M from falling apart. He is the one that plays victim when she casts any doubt on his “admission”, basically making her out to be the bad guy for not believing him. He used to say he couldn’t afford child support for 3 kids and alimony, and support him and our R also. Also, his kids need a full-time father and he didn’t want to put them through the hurt of a divorce. Recently, he told me it was all about the kids, and if it was only his W and him, he would take his losses and leave her. So, no, I don’t blame the BS for him staying. If she knew the truth, I don’t think she would choose to stay with him.

[BB07]

First you are making some assumptions about where I am now vs where I was THEN and I was being honest about where I was THEN. This might explain it a bit more. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t270521/

 

Now for addressing you comments to me.

 

Pork rinds said....Honesty is good.

 

 

Even so, "separated" is still married, so you knew from square one you were dating a married man. Honesty.

 

 

 

...and so, even when you found out he wasn't separated, you continued to see him rather than break it off. That means the fact that he lied to you initially made no difference in your actions. Honesty.

You are right.......I knew it then, and I know it more now. I would NEVER EVER date another separated man and I've said this many times in my previous posts.

 

 

Blaming her was dishonest. You had no reason to do so, he didn't even make anything up that was blameworthy.

Your assuming that I still think now it was justifiable. I didn't say that it was and I was just being honest about how I felt then and really I see it clearly now when I didn't back then.

 

 

You're still rationalizing what you did. He could have all kinds of good reasons not to be married to her, but you knew that he was. He could genuinely intend to leave her, but he hadn't. You didn't feed off his lies. You fed off your own lies. That's what you need to come to grips with.

I disagree that I'm rationalizing it NOW, then yes I did. And.........you apparently don't know the details of my story so your assumptions about some things are clearly off the mark. I do KNOW what I did and I have came to GRIPS with it.

 

It actually had nothing to do with this particular MM. If it wasn't him, you would have found someone else. Just as MM who want to cheat find OWs. If not one, then another will do just fine.

Completely disagree with the above and you do NOT know all that took place before the affair. He was a very good con man and he sucked me in and before you go off about how I'm responsible too, yes I know that and have admitted it in several past posts.

 

 

Separated is still married, and by the way, by this time you knew he was lying to you again, because that's what he did the first time around. You're obviously very intelligent so you shouldn't pretend you actually believed him the second time he lied to you about being separated.

You already pointed that "separated is still married" thing and yes I agree with you. OK, now I'm getting a little irritated about your assumptions and completely wrong comment about I should have known he lied to me the 2nd time and that I am pretending I knew. Since you obviously don't know the details about my story, I'll get some of it straight for you. I didn't know he lied to me about the 1st separation until just a few months ago when I found out about ALL the lies.

 

 

 

You knew how wrong you were from the very first time you agreed to be with him because you knew he was still a married man. You chose to ignore what you knew.

 

Don't get mad. Get honest.

I AM honest here about it ALL and I'm honest about how wrong I was and how much I regret it. Big shocker.......for you I guess but that is the way it IS.

[wheelwright]

I dont think many OW would be comfortable saying the words: I blame BS - even to themselves

 

But they often do. When they say:

She begged him to stay/come back, so he had to

She is unable to take care of herself , so he has to.

She controls and manipulates him with the children.

 

Its all the same

 

To be honest I have seldom heard this on LS.

 

It is about the duty the MP feels, not the state of the BS.

 

But the latter may inform the former if DDay is concerned.

 

Most BSs have the integrity to say you will stay for your love for me and our family, or we must work through this another way.

 

I think there is a lot of manipulation around the kids. The power is newly and painfully in the BS's court. It can't only be me where this was at least hinted on.

 

I think DDay is a time where all the wild parts of the the people in the R let rip. You may see the best and worst. I think it's painful, and that there is a possibility that if it hadn't happened, none of it would have come to light.

[Snowflower]

No unfortunately not. In hindsight I could see she had a drink problem when I was a child but with the fall out from Dday, she fell into alcoholism. My relationship with her eventually broke down because of the way she changed as a result - extreme mood swings, emotionally abusive at times.

 

No. Whenever I did mention it, my stepmother made out that I was lying in an attempt to undermine her and support my mother. My father believed her and would get angry at me for lying.

 

Thanks for responding, anne1707. I was sad to read that your parents never really recovered--individually--from the affair.

 

To be honest I have seldom heard this on LS.

 

It is about the duty the MP feels, not the state of the BS.

 

But the latter may inform the former if DDay is concerned.

 

Most BSs have the integrity to say you will stay for your love for me and our family, or we must work through this another way.

 

I think there is a lot of manipulation around the kids. The power is newly and painfully in the BS's court. It can't only be me where this was at least hinted on.

 

I think DDay is a time where all the wild parts of the the people in the R let rip. You may see the best and worst. I think it's painful, and that there is a possibility that if it hadn't happened, none of it would have come to light.

 

Good post, WW.

 

I agree.

[jj33]

Do you feel it is the betrayed spouses fault that you are not with your true love? Are they manipulating your love to keep the marriage? Are they using the children to keep their marriage intact?

 

If not for the manipulation of the betrayed spouse would you be living your happy ever after?

 

I dont in my situation but I think it is rare that the BS's actions can be seen to be so manipulative that they actually stop the MP from leaving if they want to leave. Theres a high divorce rate in the US. People who want to leave do leave.

 

So what if the BS begs them to stay? That is probably not uncommon and I dont think it is manipulation. It is their heartfelt desire that the WS stay. Why arent they equally able to fight for their marriage and hope for a way for things to work out?

 

Turning the children against them etc etc that might be a bigger issue and its not good but it happens and many people divorce anyway.

 

Saying I will take all your money? There are loads of ugly divorces at all ends of the financial spectrum. I just spoke to two BSs today both of whom plan to take the WS for all he is worth and he is leaving anyway. Both plan to limit custody to the extent that their lawyers can do that and the men are still leaving and will fight on the custody issue. People who want to leave, leave.

 

Some exceptional situtations but to me they are few and far between and absent physical abuse, or abuse of children, or a spouse who is truly incapable of functioning on their own, I think the claims that the BS trashed any hope of a future between a OW/OM and an MP is highly overrated.

[Shocking Pink]

Do you feel it is the betrayed spouses fault that you are not with your true love? Are they manipulating your love to keep the marriage? Are they using the children to keep their marriage intact?

 

If not for the manipulation of the betrayed spouse would you be living your happy ever after?

 

Right now it is the BS who is standing between us, but it's not her fault. If anything it is MM's fault bc he married the wrong person without thinking when he was grieving and acting a little irresponsible and crazy. She's not manipulating anything, she's not a bad person, it's just a sucky situation and he's waiting for a better time to get out of it. They don't have any kids BTW.

 

Didn't read the thread yet so sorry if the conversations' changed.

[jj33]

Shortly after the A ended and my H and I were in the very early stages of reconciliation, I read an email from the OW to my H which asked him, "Why are you trying to work things out with her? She doesn't treat you right." (OW's words).

 

If that isn't blaming the BS, I don't know what is!

 

I'm glad to see that most OW here don't appear to blame the BS if their MM returns to the marriage.

 

If the OW does blame the BS...then I think it is likely that she will assume that the BS will blame her (the OW) for somehow ensnaring the husband. Blame is just assumed.

 

 

Snowflower maybe you didnt do this but I think there is a tendency for the BS and the AP to vilify each other. Sometimes it is true, most times it isnt. Its always harder to place the blame on the person you love who you want to believe loves you best. So if things dont work out the wa you want them to (he cheated on you, he didnt leave to be with you) its cant be your love's fault, it must be some external influence.

 

Poor little hapless MM, lost little lamb:rolleyes:

 

IMHO too often the OW and the BS take umbrage at each other rather than placing their anger or disappointment squarely on the shoulders of the MM where it belongs.

[Snowflower]

Snowflower maybe you didnt do this but I think there is a tendency for the BS and the AP to vilify each other. Sometimes it is true, most times it isnt. Its always harder to place the blame on the person you love who you want to believe loves you best. So if things dont work out the wa you want them to (he cheated on you, he didnt leave to be with you) its cant be your love's fault, it must be some external influence.

 

Poor little hapless MM, lost little lamb:rolleyes:

 

IMHO too often the OW and the BS take umbrage at each other rather than placing their anger or disappointment squarely on the shoulders of the MM where it belongs.

 

Oh, I agree 1000%.

 

I think it is very difficult-especially in the early days after the cheating is discovered for the BS or the affair has ended for the MM-for the two women in the triangle to blame each other. Even if it is not face-to-face.

 

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, jj33. I think I did go through a period of blaming the OW but now I just see her actions in more of a realistic perspective. I still blame her for her actions alone. She did some pretty overbearing stuff. But honestly, it doesn't matter. She is not a part of my life. My H is who I deal with these days as I always have. Not so much as blame but just in seeing the A and his actions while in the A for what it is.

 

Hope that makes sense. I'm having a difficult week with all this.

[Spark1111]

Well, I told him to go get her. I told him if I had texted those undying words of passion to anyone, I'd have had a bag packed long ago.

 

I was angrier (furious!)that he had lied to me for so long, rather than having developed feelings for another. We really could have just separated while he explored those feelings.

 

I also told him we'd split up amicably. I told my children that if this was who their father wanted, he deserved love in his life and I expected them to always treat her with respect.

 

I also told them that despite what happened to he and I, it was their father and he loved them, and I would never involve them in our relationship (divorce.)

 

So, I cannot be the only BS on the planet who reacted like this, can I?

 

I do not think so.

 

So it boggles my mind that years later, she still blames me and him.

 

Is it possible he never told her he had carte blanche to have the future she wanted with him? Probably. Kids were grown. I make my own money.

 

If he told her it was the kids, or the assets, or I could not function without him, then he was truly delusional and purposely not informing her.

[BB07]

Well, I told him to go get her. I told him if I had texted those undying words of passion to anyone, I'd have had a bag packed long ago.

 

I was angrier (furious!)that he had lied to me for so long, rather than having developed feelings for another. We really could have just separated while he explored those feelings.

 

I also told him we'd split up amicably. I told my children that if this was who their father wanted, he deserved love in his life and I expected them to always treat her with respect.

 

I also told them that despite what happened to he and I, it was their father and he loved them, and I would never involve them in our relationship (divorce.)

 

So, I cannot be the only BS on the planet who reacted like this, can I?

 

I do not think so.

 

So it boggles my mind that years later, she still blames me and him.

 

Is it possible he never told her he had carte blanche to have the future she wanted with him? Probably. Kids were grown. I make my own money.

 

If he told her it was the kids, or the assets, or I could not function without him, then he was truly delusional and purposely not informing her.

 

 

In the past year plus and after reading here and that other popular infidelity site, I do find your initial reaction unusual, (telling him to go get her). I think there are many women who do kick them out for a few days but then they let them come back home fairly quickly and IMO are at a big disadvantage. I think you and some of the women here.......are the rare exceptions.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would hope that I would be as strong and angry as you were and that I wouldn't dissolve into a crumbling mess, (well at least not in front of him.)