Forgiveness

[Amour7]

Reading though posts from perspectives of WS, OM/W, and BS, it seems there are many of us who struggle with forgiving ourselves, our APs, WS's, OW/M, etc. For those of you out there who have been able to transcend feelings such as betrayal, anger, disappointment, guilt, or shame resulting from an affair, did forgiveness play a role? If so, how so, and what advice might you be able to share to help some of us take steps in that direction?

[East7]

From AP/OM perspective, I was angry with xMW when she decided to stay with her H. It took me months to "forgive" her.

There were 2 factors which made my anger fade away :1/I realized that her reasons to stay (kid+finances) were valid at some extent 2/ Forgiving is part of moving-on and forgetting process. For me forgive=forget, the more you move on, the more you forgive.

[Rose1977]

In our healing process (I am the BGF), forgiveness had to be a part of the healing. I have definitely forgiven for the actual "act" of cheating. I still have a hard time with the lies. But the complete 180 he has done since Dday makes it easier to forgive and heal. I lived for so long in such anger (LOL, see some of my first posts here) that I don't know how I carried on a normal life. I think I have forgiven as much as possible. I think it's the forgetting I can't do so well, but who could forget something so awful? Counseling as well as understanding how sorry he truly is (even third party thru our counselor) has helped a lot with the healing and forgiveness process. Without counseling we would not be together.

 

Considering our Dday involved a call girl, I had a lot of insecurities. I know prostitutes are people too and are not less than any of us just because of their job, but I kept asking him, "How could a hooker be better than me?" Now that I understand his reasons, it has made life easier, but the prostitute thing was pretty rough on my self esteem.

[Rose1977]

Forgot to mention, talking, talking, talking. Heartfelt conversations about honest feelings with no anger involved helped so much. If one of us started to get too angry, we would go outside to calm down before coming back. Don't get me wrong though, for a couple months until we learned to communicate better, it was a living hell.

[silktricks]

I always hear that it's important to forgive. Though heaven will probably rain down fire on my head, I really don't agree. I only think it's important to move past a situation. If I had not loved my husband and wanted to reconstruct our marriage, I don't believe I truly would have forgiven him. I would have moved on with my life (and moved him out of it ), but forgiven??? No, I don't think so.

 

The only reason I was able to forgive him was because of the amount of energy he put into helping me forgive. Maybe some people can forgive someone who truly doesn't give a **** about whether or not you are in pain, but I'm frankly not one of those people.

 

But maybe forgiveness means something different to some people than it does for me.

 

So, for me, forgiveness is important only if you want to rebuild a relationship with the person who injured you, and it's only possible if they realize and own up to the fact that they did injure you. If you don't want to have anything further to do with them, then why bother trying to forgive? Why not just leave all the pain and anguish behind you like the rest of the flotsam and jetsam we leave in our trail...

Edited March 23, 2011 by silktricks

[seren]

While I can say hand on heart that I have forgiven my H for the A, I still cannot say the same about fully getting my head around it all. But, I had to forgive, for me more than anything, but of course for H and our future relationship too. The key, for me, was to understand the why's of it all, what factors were in place before the A that resulted in it happening. H did not love the OW, had he done so, I have asked myself would it, could it have been so 'easy' to forgive? I always think that yes, I get falling in love so would understand that, but for what it was and why it happened? sure I understand the reasons and because I do, I was able to forgive, it still hurt, but it was what it was.

 

For me, the key then was to get it straight in my head, to look it in the eye and say OK, I see why and then to have the truth of it, process and then deal with it. H, however cannot forgive himself, he can understand the run up, but not that he hurt me. So, I suppose he wants to forget about the A, but cannot forgive himself for hurting me. I have said that he needs to let it go, to let go of all the bad feelings about himself, but he cannot, at times it became me comforting him far more than he, me, and that can be difficult, but it breaks me up to see him continuing to hurt.

 

He needs to not forget the why's, we need to remember the why's, but the A itself? it is not productive to keep going over old ground, it was what it was, it happened, it cannot be changed, time to deal with it, learn from it and carry on living, either together or not. Everyone needs to give it up at some point, to drag an A around is so dammed tiring and destructive, I think everyone should ask themselves what it is doing to them and their relationship if it is destructive then dump it, learn to forgive yourself (general) and get on with life.

[mizliz]

Reading though posts from perspectives of WS, OM/W, and BS, it seems there are many of us who struggle with forgiving ourselves, our APs, WS's, OW/M, etc. For those of you out there who have been able to transcend feelings such as betrayal, anger, disappointment, guilt, or shame resulting from an affair, did forgiveness play a role? If so, how so, and what advice might you be able to share to help some of us take steps in that direction?

 

Forgiveness plays a huge role. Regardless of where you are with respect to the affair, the emotions are the same. Without forgiveness, whether it be for ourselves or for someone else, there cannot be real love. Letting go is critical to our soul-freedom. Compassion and empathy being the foundation of love.

 

Forgiveness means that we recognize that, "but for the grace of god, go I". We can forgive when we truly, empathatically put ourselves in someone else's shoes and refuse to label others as "good" or "bad". We choose to love ourselves and others through this understanding and move forward towards trust and freedom. Love, and leave judgment to god.

[Amour7]

Forgiveness plays a huge role. Regardless of where you are with respect to the affair, the emotions are the same. Without forgiveness, whether it be for ourselves or for someone else, there cannot be real love. Letting go is critical to our soul-freedom. Compassion and empathy being the foundation of love.

Forgiveness means that we recognize that, "but for the grace of god, go I". We can forgive when we truly, empathatically put ourselves in someone else's shoes and refuse to label others as "good" or "bad". We choose to love ourselves and others through this understanding and move forward towards trust and freedom. Love, and leave judgment to god.

 

Well said, Mizliz. This is a work in progress for me.

[mizliz]

Well said, Mizliz. This is a work in progress for me.

 

For me too, Amour. We all are

[Amour7]

While I can say hand on heart that I have forgiven my H for the A, I still cannot say the same about fully getting my head around it all. But, I had to forgive, for me more than anything, but of course for H and our future relationship too. The key, for me, was to understand the why's of it all, what factors were in place before the A that resulted in it happening. H did not love the OW, had he done so, I have asked myself would it, could it have been so 'easy' to forgive? I always think that yes, I get falling in love so would understand that, but for what it was and why it happened? sure I understand the reasons and because I do, I was able to forgive, it still hurt, but it was what it was.

 

For me, the key then was to get it straight in my head, to look it in the eye and say OK, I see why and then to have the truth of it, process and then deal with it. H, however cannot forgive himself, he can understand the run up, but not that he hurt me. So, I suppose he wants to forget about the A, but cannot forgive himself for hurting me. I have said that he needs to let it go, to let go of all the bad feelings about himself, but he cannot, at times it became me comforting him far more than he, me, and that can be difficult, but it breaks me up to see him continuing to hurt.

 

He needs to not forget the why's, we need to remember the why's, but the A itself? it is not productive to keep going over old ground, it was what it was, it happened, it cannot be changed, time to deal with it, learn from it and carry on living, either together or not. Everyone needs to give it up at some point, to drag an A around is so dammed tiring and destructive, I think everyone should ask themselves what it is doing to them and their relationship if it is destructive then dump it, learn to forgive yourself (general) and get on with life.

Thanks for sharing, Seren, and all the other betrayed partners who shared their perspectives. I have been both BS and OW, and I feel sorry for the pain you experienced. Seren, I am inspired by how you have moved forward.

[findingnemo]

While I can say hand on heart that I have forgiven my H for the A, I still cannot say the same about fully getting my head around it all. But, I had to forgive, for me more than anything, but of course for H and our future relationship too. The key, for me, was to understand the why's of it all, what factors were in place before the A that resulted in it happening. H did not love the OW, had he done so, I have asked myself would it, could it have been so 'easy' to forgive? I always think that yes, I get falling in love so would understand that, but for what it was and why it happened? sure I understand the reasons and because I do, I was able to forgive, it still hurt, but it was what it was.

 

For me, the key then was to get it straight in my head, to look it in the eye and say OK, I see why and then to have the truth of it, process and then deal with it. H, however cannot forgive himself, he can understand the run up, but not that he hurt me. So, I suppose he wants to forget about the A, but cannot forgive himself for hurting me. I have said that he needs to let it go, to let go of all the bad feelings about himself, but he cannot, at times it became me comforting him far more than he, me, and that can be difficult, but it breaks me up to see him continuing to hurt.

 

He needs to not forget the why's, we need to remember the why's, but the A itself? it is not productive to keep going over old ground, it was what it was, it happened, it cannot be changed, time to deal with it, learn from it and carry on living, either together or not. Everyone needs to give it up at some point, to drag an A around is so dammed tiring and destructive, I think everyone should ask themselves what it is doing to them and their relationship if it is destructive then dump it, learn to forgive yourself (general) and get on with life.

 

It is odd how people in the same sitch will react differently. I love your posts, Seren.

 

You, FO and Spark among others make me feel really sad for MM's W. To expect her to forgive MM for what he is doing and has done to her is too much, IMO. Bent says that cheating is cowardly behaviour and I agree. People fall in love all the time but the pain comes from the damn lies, the falsehoods, the fake "life". Can I forgive him for doing this to her? Can I forgive myself for aiding and abetting?

 

You give this woman a face and a heart. I don't know what I want anymore when it comes to her. There was a time when I was sure I wanted MM to leave her for me. There were times I tried to hate her and blame her for taking him away. That didn't pass my logic tests, nothing could. It was easier to just not think about her. With your posts, I can't help but wonder. I think she really loves him. When she finds out, she needs to find the strength to forgive him or she'll wither from bitterness and anger. I would tell her to stay because I know for a fact that he loves her. I can't explain how he can love her and love me. I'd tell her that forgiving him is more about freeing herself to enjoy the rest of her life than anything else. She could choose to leave him and that would be understandable too. But I hope she chooses to forgive, for her own sake.

 

Can I forgive? Do I even have anything I need to forgive? Just because I'm not the W, doesn't mean that I don't feel bitter and angry. Just because the man I love is M doesn't make the pain any less piercing. Having a legal document with one's name on it, doesn't make the pain that the BS feels any different from the OW's. It just makes it more justified. Though I have no-one in particular to blame (W could blame me, or her H), I lash out at life in general, at fate, and sometimes at God. When it comes to As, there's plenty of anger, pain, bitterness and despair to go around. Forgiveness, if possible to have and to give, is the only thing that may alleviate the burden of those emotions for each person involved.

 

Sometimes I think it would have been easier if I was just a b***h!!!

[Happy Finally]

I always hear that it's important to forgive. Though heaven will probably rain down fire on my head, I really don't agree. I only think it's important to move past a situation. If I had not loved my husband and wanted to reconstruct our marriage, I don't believe I truly would have forgiven him. I would have moved on with my life (and moved him out of it ), but forgiven??? No, I don't think so.

 

The only reason I was able to forgive him was because of the amount of energy he put into helping me forgive. Maybe some people can forgive someone who truly doesn't give a **** about whether or not you are in pain, but I'm frankly not one of those people.

 

But maybe forgiveness means something different to some people than it does for me.

 

So, for me, forgiveness is important only if you want to rebuild a relationship with the person who injured you, and it's only possible if they realize and own up to the fact that they did injure you. If you don't want to have anything further to do with them, then why bother trying to forgive? Why not just leave all the pain and anguish behind you like the rest of the flotsam and jetsam we leave in our trail...

 

Silk,

 

I like this statement because it so true. I forgave my wife for a 3rd time. I did all kinds of stuff to show I have forgiven her but she truly acted like what ever, get over it. And continued the same way of life. Now I am a WS.....

 

Although I forgave her for her actions, when I realized she really didn't care...the forgiveness sort of went away and now I am numb on the topic.

 

Very good point.

[spice4life]

While I can say hand on heart that I have forgiven my H for the A, I still cannot say the same about fully getting my head around it all. But, I had to forgive, for me more than anything, but of course for H and our future relationship too. The key, for me, was to understand the why's of it all, what factors were in place before the A that resulted in it happening. H did not love the OW, had he done so, I have asked myself would it, could it have been so 'easy' to forgive? I always think that yes, I get falling in love so would understand that, but for what it was and why it happened? sure I understand the reasons and because I do, I was able to forgive, it still hurt, but it was what it was.

 

For me, the key then was to get it straight in my head, to look it in the eye and say OK, I see why and then to have the truth of it, process and then deal with it. H, however cannot forgive himself, he can understand the run up, but not that he hurt me. So, I suppose he wants to forget about the A, but cannot forgive himself for hurting me. I have said that he needs to let it go, to let go of all the bad feelings about himself, but he cannot, at times it became me comforting him far more than he, me, and that can be difficult, but it breaks me up to see him continuing to hurt.

 

He needs to not forget the why's, we need to remember the why's, but the A itself? it is not productive to keep going over old ground, it was what it was, it happened, it cannot be changed, time to deal with it, learn from it and carry on living, either together or not. Everyone needs to give it up at some point, to drag an A around is so dammed tiring and destructive, I think everyone should ask themselves what it is doing to them and their relationship if it is destructive then dump it, learn to forgive yourself (general) and get on with life.

 

I agree with you seren but have a question. It's easy for someone to prove themselves when they are there and present with you. How about when long distance is involved and the circumstances are set up to make it difficult? How does one prove themselves then? Not being difficult, just trying to understand how one can prove themselves from a distance and show that they DO care?

[lovingwhatis]

Great topic, Amour!

 

Years ago, I had a really difficult time truly forgiving and letting go small or large grievances I had with people. I admired people who could just let things go effortlessly, people who seemed to have a high tolerance for hurt and didn't take things so personally. I've consciously tried to expand my capacity for forgiveness and it has worked, most of the time.

 

There are couple of notable exceptions though. They involve friends who I feel have betrayed me in terms of loyalty. So the first article that popped up talked about 4 stages of forgiveness.

1. Hurt

2. Hate

3. Healing ourselves

4. Coming together

 

Having had such a difficult time in general with going past my perceived sense of hurt and anger (I wouldn't call it hate, but there's definitely anger), I was absolutely amazed tha regarding xMM I seem to have a boundless capacity to let go to the point in which I feel there is nothing to forgive. I call that Grace. I don't know how exactly it happened, but I was and am still so grateful for that.

 

But if I may, I would like to share here about these friends that I have a hard time forgiving. With both of them I am to the point of stage 3 - healing myself. I don't feel the hurt anymore (did for a long time), nor the anger, I feel mostly a sort of distance with them (they are not in my life anymore), a coldness, and of course I would not consider them current friends. So the forth stage doesn't appear to be close, nor do I feel it necessary to come to complete circle with them.

 

Couple of people have questioned that they even need to try to forgive certain people. I can understand that sentiment, since regarding these two friends I don't feel that sentiment either. But overall, I do feel that hurt and anger are toxic to ourselves, so when faced with a situation where I am in in the stage of hurt or anger, I make an effort to resolve that in some way.

 

I agree with Seren that the effort the other person puts into healing the friendship/relationship seems to be important. Both people didn't put that effort, so I have felt that an honest coming together to resolve the grievance never occurred. Without such effort, and maybe without any other motivation (for instance wanting to work on marriage, or that person being family) it seems relatively more difficult to forgive what one perceives to be a large grievance. For of course, some things are more easily forgivable than others. We are on OW/OM board, so I know that what people are talking about here are heavy grievances.

 

But thankfully, I have also experienced what I feel is full forgiveness towards parents. To me full forgiveness is when one experiences such a transformation, that they have a hard time remembering what it was that originally hurt them so much. It is inconceivable to imagine that stage when one is still hurt. The hurt feels so real. But it can happen. It has definitely happened to me, where I have a remarkably different R with my family than I did just a few years ago.

 

Amour, one note to you. You have a big heart and I imagine your capacity to forgive is large, but in situation with MM, when there is a great chance that the situation may cause more new hurts during the time you attempt to forgive old ones, it is really important to really focus on boundaries at the same time. Forgiveness alone without healthy boundaries may turn into martyrdom. I really feel that a certain amount of physical and emotional space is needed for one to even begin to look at hurt honestly, to face anger, and to begin to heal.

[seren]

I agree with you seren but have a question. It's easy for someone to prove themselves when they are there and present with you. How about when long distance is involved and the circumstances are set up to make it difficult? How does one prove themselves then? Not being difficult, just trying to understand how one can prove themselves from a distance and show that they DO care?

 

I don't necessarily think anyone has to 'prove' themselves Spice, how could they prove they were meaning what they were saying and doing, after all, they had already shown themselves to be adept at lying and gaslighting. I think the key to true forgiveness is trust, I don't think it is at all possible to forgive without that.

 

After D Day, H and I were living apart during the week, we saw each other on weekends for about 6 months. I trusted him that he was NC, no keyloggers, checking phone bills or any of that. I knew, from the moment he told me about it that it was over - I also knew from the OW too, but that is another story entirely.

 

Had I for one second doubted that he wanted to work on our marriage, I would have left. I think that to forgive, does not mean to forget, but it is to understand, not only the A, but the relationship in the marriage at its heart. I also think that balance is also necessary in understanding, balancing all our years against how H was during the A made it possible for me to balance what was really important, what really made our relationship strong enough to get through the days and months after D Day.

 

Long distance forgiveness is only different in that the person is not in front of you for you to look them in the eye and see. I am of the opinion that H could have cheated far easier during the week when he was away from home, but he didn't, it was on his weekends home, but of course they had texts to keep in contact. I also think that once the A is out there and discussed, that very often the MP will be more able to balance what it is that they seek in an A, more able to look at whether they actually value their marriage. I, of course know that some, after D Day continue with the A, but, I am mindful that this is the OW/OM board so will choose my words with care here - to gaslight after a D Day means that the MP is actually putting more into the marriage to put the BS off the scent. I think then that if they do not leave at this point, they are unlikely to, but am sure there are exceptions. This I could not forgive, if I were the BS or the AP. I have gone off track, sorry.

 

To not forgive is poisonous to the person, this whether it is long distance or not. I may never understand fully the why's and wherefore's, I truly do not think I need to, I understand the reasons, but not the actions. However, I do not expect my H to beat himself up each day or to prove anything, I hold the view that he is dammed lucky I am here, I am dammed lucky he is here and we both realise that a second A would be unforgivable, but and it's a huge but, I would never stop him from having an A, but I would stop me being around after. I trust that he won't.

[spice4life]

I understand completely, thank you. The scenario I am wondering about is entirely different and one that DID NOT involve gaslighting of any kind...at least not on person who is and has been trying to prove their trust for a long time under a very difficult set of circumstances. Nothing like your situation at all. It was more akin to a MM trying to prove fidelity to the OW while still living with the W. Not saying that is the situation, but just trying to draw a clear picture of how difficult the circumstances actually are. Does this make more sense?

 

And I agree 100%, if the person who feels betrayed does not sense that the other actually wants to work out the issues then yes, they should probably leave. Every situation is different and that needs to be put into consideration. Outside of establishing trust there are other factors that may be in play and make the rebuilding process even more difficult. If a person is able to stick through that, then it speaks volumes...to me anyway. My sense is that inn the scenario I'm speaking of, the A cycle would need to be broken first before any kind of rebuilding can actually happen. Otherwise, both partners are left with unresolved resentments that would end up getting in the way.

 

Thank you for your insight. Much appreciated! I do get your point though and it makes total sense. That is exactly what I would want too if I were in your situation.

[seren]

Yes Spice, I get it. I don't really know how the MM can prove he isn't having sex with his W, yet there are similar parallels in any relationship really. I suppose it all is based on trust and I cannot imagine being in a situation where the person I loved ..... was going to put, was capable of cheating, which is kind of ironic given I am an XBS. So, not so dissimilar. I know of some marriages where there is no sex, not many, but some. I am of the mind that it is intimacy that is important not sex per se.

 

I don't think anyone can prove that they are not having sex with someone, the key lies with the person whom they are saying that too - do they trust the other to be totally honest, and there we are back to the start. How to do this long distance is IMO impossible and frankly Spice would tear me up, hope you aren't feeling too torn, we just have to take someone's word and hope to God that they are honest.

[Lorelei_Lane]

I have a hard time with the forgiveness thing, which is strange and new to me because typically I easily forgive people for wrongs they've done to me and those that I love.

 

The funny part about the forgiveness for me is that I have forgiven my husband for his EA with my "supposed" best friend, although I haven't forgotten it and the things that were said/done.

 

I have not, however, forgiven myself for not seeing what was going on even though it didn't last long. I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for being gaslighted by both my husband and the OW... they both meant so much to me at the time that I would have believed anything they said until I had the evidence sitting right there in my face.

 

I haven't forgiven her, either. Mostly it was for the lies, the "I would never do that to you" lecture she gave me when I told her that her friendship with my hubby made me uncomfortable. I don't think about that part as much as I think about how I still haven't, and probably never will, forgive myself for being so damn blind.

[spice4life]

I have a hard time with the forgiveness thing, which is strange and new to me because typically I easily forgive people for wrongs they've done to me and those that I love.

 

The funny part about the forgiveness for me is that I have forgiven my husband for his EA with my "supposed" best friend, although I haven't forgotten it and the things that were said/done.

 

I have not, however, forgiven myself for not seeing what was going on even though it didn't last long. I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for being gaslighted by both my husband and the OW... they both meant so much to me at the time that I would have believed anything they said until I had the evidence sitting right there in my face.

 

I haven't forgiven her, either. Mostly it was for the lies, the "I would never do that to you" lecture she gave me when I told her that her friendship with my hubby made me uncomfortable. I don't think about that part as much as I think about how I still haven't, and probably never will, forgive myself for being so damn blind.

 

Wow, I'm so sorry this happened to you. This also happened to me once, except I wasn't married to the person. I still have trust issues to this day because of it, so I can completely understand where you are coming from. I think the gas lighting is the worst part of it...two people, you trust the most, outside of family, totally lying to your face while stabbing you in the back! It is one of the worst feelings in the world. My heart goes out to you. ((((HUGS!))))

 

There is no way I would stay in a relationship if that happened to me again. Fortunately, therapy has helped me choose better friends now, so the likelihood of it happening again is a lot less than before!

[Lorelei_Lane]

Wow, I'm so sorry this happened to you. This also happened to me once, except I wasn't married to the person. I still have trust issues to this day because of it, so I can completely understand where you are coming from. I think the gas lighting is the worst part of it...two people, you trust the most, outside of family, totally lying to your face while stabbing you in the back! It is one of the worst feelings in the world. My heart goes out to you. ((((HUGS!))))

 

There is no way I would stay in a relationship if that happened to me again. Fortunately, therapy has helped me choose better friends now, so the likelihood of it happening again is a lot less than before!

 

Thanks! It really does help to know people understand this situation. Most people I talk to about it are like "OMG your FRIEND did that to you??" and that's the extent of it.

 

I have HUGE trust issues because of it honestly. It's been almost two years and I still have trust issues with any and every body. Everyone I know that has known me for years, especially my family, noticed how I play things close to the chest now. I made a friend at my last job and it took me almost a year to finally open up to her. Once I did, especially about the affair, she TOTALLY understood because she had been there, too. But I used to never play things so close to the chest. There are things to this day that I still hide from my husband, and he was ultimately my best friend. I told him everything. Even when he was being a total douche lol.

 

I was in therapy for a while, but quit going because I moved to another city. I wonder if I still need it because there are days I absolutely hate who I am, who I pretend to be. I have this mask on all the time now that I'm not sure where the fake me ends and the real me begins. It causes problems once in a while with my husband, because I become very withdrawn and he can't figure out what to do to help.

 

Honestly, I have a few friends, but I don't talk to anyone anymore. Not since her and what she did. She and I talked every day, she was my go-to girl for so many things... and then when it happened, and she was out of my life forever. I hated her for so long, but now I find myself actually missing her. Which sucks.

 

It really is true when they say affairs destroy things... they especially destroy people.

[Amour7]

Lots of thoughtful posts on this subject. Thank you all.

 

Great topic, Amour!

 

Years ago, I had a really difficult time truly forgiving and letting go small or large grievances I had with people. I admired people who could just let things go effortlessly, people who seemed to have a high tolerance for hurt and didn't take things so personally. I've consciously tried to expand my capacity for forgiveness and it has worked, most of the time.

Good for you, Lovingwhatis!

 

There are couple of notable exceptions though. They involve friends who I feel have betrayed me in terms of loyalty. So the first article that popped up talked about 4 stages of forgiveness.

1. Hurt

2. Hate

3. Healing ourselves

4. Coming together

 

Having had such a difficult time in general with going past my perceived sense of hurt and anger (I wouldn't call it hate, but there's definitely anger), I was absolutely amazed tha regarding xMM I seem to have a boundless capacity to let go to the point in which I feel there is nothing to forgive. I call that Grace. I don't know how exactly it happened, but I was and am still so grateful for that.

 

But if I may, I would like to share here about these friends that I have a hard time forgiving. With both of them I am to the point of stage 3 - healing myself. I don't feel the hurt anymore (did for a long time), nor the anger, I feel mostly a sort of distance with them (they are not in my life anymore), a coldness, and of course I would not consider them current friends. So the forth stage doesn't appear to be close, nor do I feel it necessary to come to complete circle with them.

 

Couple of people have questioned that they even need to try to forgive certain people. I can understand that sentiment, since regarding these two friends I don't feel that sentiment either. But overall, I do feel that hurt and anger are toxic to ourselves, so when faced with a situation where I am in in the stage of hurt or anger, I make an effort to resolve that in some way.

 

I agree with Seren that the effort the other person puts into healing the friendship/relationship seems to be important. Both people didn't put that effort, so I have felt that an honest coming together to resolve the grievance never occurred. Without such effort, and maybe without any other motivation (for instance wanting to work on marriage, or that person being family) it seems relatively more difficult to forgive what one perceives to be a large grievance. For of course, some things are more easily forgivable than others. We are on OW/OM board, so I know that what people are talking about here are heavy grievances.

 

But thankfully, I have also experienced what I feel is full forgiveness towards parents. To me full forgiveness is when one experiences such a transformation, that they have a hard time remembering what it was that originally hurt them so much. It is inconceivable to imagine that stage when one is still hurt. The hurt feels so real. But it can happen. It has definitely happened to me, where I have a remarkably different R with my family than I did just a few years ago.

 

Amour, one note to you. You have a big heart and I imagine your capacity to forgive is large, but in situation with MM, when there is a great chance that the situation may cause more new hurts during the time you attempt to forgive old ones, it is really important to really focus on boundaries at the same time. Forgiveness alone without healthy boundaries may turn into martyrdom. I really feel that a certain amount of physical and emotional space is needed for one to even begin to look at hurt honestly, to face anger, and to begin to heal.

 

I completely agree that holding onto anger can be toxic, and i believe we see that a bit through some of the posters here. I also believe that for some BS and OW/W, anger can be sort of a bandaid over a gaping wound of hurt. It's maybe not healthy to take it off until the wound has had some time to heal. So, maybe forgiving too soon is a danger. I appreciate the caution about boundaries. I do find that I forgive people I love easily, which probably leaves me open to being manipulated or a martyr, as you say.

[lovingwhatis]

Amour! I trust you are well! Yes, I agree about not trying to force oneself to forgive too soon.

 

I am looking forward to chatting more towards the end of the week!

[Amour7]

Amour! I trust you are well! Yes, I agree about not trying to force oneself to forgive too soon.

 

I am looking forward to chatting more towards the end of the week!

 

Yes, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to PM !

[Flabbergaster]

xOW and I reached a point where we knew what would happen, knew it hurt, we were still in love. We knew that she was going to be engaged (happily) to him and move on in her life, and try to forget me. We knew that I wasn't going to leave my W and rescue the A.

 

I asked her to forgive me for failing her, for the hurt that I had caused her. I gave her forgiveness for the times she hurt me, for future pain I would suffer.

 

The forgiveness she gave...means a lot to me, in recovery from the A. When she could still let herself love me, she looked into my eyes and honestly forgave me for everything.

[silverplanets]

Reading though posts from perspectives of WS, OM/W, and BS, it seems there are many of us who struggle with forgiving ourselves, our APs, WS's, OW/M, etc. For those of you out there who have been able to transcend feelings such as betrayal, anger, disappointment, guilt, or shame resulting from an affair, did forgiveness play a role? If so, how so, and what advice might you be able to share to help some of us take steps in that direction?

 

Hi amour,

 

Just speaking personally, and from where I am nowadays, I'm not sure I have the right to forgive or not forgive anyone. It tends to imply some "higher view" of their behaviour and escalate my own position to that of the "arbitrator" of who is chosen to be forgiven and who is not. As all I would apply would be my values and my views then that would seem to be me applying my life values to someone elses life ... and that would seem almost close to arrogant in some ways.

 

I don't need to forgive myself ... rather I love myself for having the courage to fight for myself and believe I was worth things .. even if, in hindsight, I can see clearly that I was making these decisions without being fully a "whole" person inside myself. I was an incomplete person who was trying to do the best I possibly could despite not being fully whole inside, and I love myself for that.

 

For them, well no doubt they were also incomplete in some way and doing the best they could for themselves , perhaps also without being aware of things deep inside themselves which were influencing their own behaviour. So in a way, as a human being, they deserve the same love.

 

In the end, I think it came down to accepting them for who they were (and how who they were evidenced itself in their behaviour and actions).

 

Once I'd done this then I had two options (in terms of their life)

a) try to take responsibility for them and fix them

b) leave them to live their own life and find their own way to self awareness if they wanted

 

In terms of my own life I had two options as well:

a) create more drama (with them or someone else) to save looking deep inside myself

b) stop creating drama and shine my light deep inside me to understand who I was and why I behaved as I do

 

I chose "b" on the first one (I believe that we each alone have to reach that point in life, if we are lucky, where we get to confront ourselves, and to "do it" for someone deprives them of the opportunity to become a deeper person), and I chose "b" on the second one as I had decided the time had come to look deep inside myself and try and grow as a person.

 

There was no ultimate requirement for forgiveness ... just

- acceptance of everyone for being who they were

- allowing people to be responsible for their own lives

- taking responsibility for my life

 

 

Hope this makes some kind of sense ....

 

take care

chris

:-)

Edited March 31, 2011 by silverplanets