holly369 Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Hi everyone Excuse the length of this post don't mean to bore you to tears. I'd really appreciate your advice... I had a relationship with quite an "unusual" man a couple of years back. By unusual I mean that aside from having issues relationshipwise (late 40's, never had a lasting relationship and when he did the women he dated were married or never entirely "available"), this man is very much an introvert. He always told me that he does not know how to express his feelings but that his feelings can be so intense that he blocks them all together. He doesn't like hanging out with people, he is terrified of being judged. He's very smart, witty, independent, has a great job and is successful at it but seems to have low self esteem. He was very sweet with me and we had a great complicity going on. At the same time he could turn real "nasty" with no warning and often send me mixed signals...Examples: unexpected criticisms (never bad ones but enough to destabilise me after his intense sweetness; hot and cold showers like displaying a lot of affection/meaningful words followed by distant behavior towards me; remarks about attractive women with a big grin right in front of me). I always experienced him as ambivalent with me, never could understand what (if) he felt for me and I could not even read his expressions as he displayed none. I know I seem to act "lighter" than I really am, i.e. I can be funny, entertaining, joke and give a lot of attentions even when I am not all that well. People often describe me as a "breath of fresh air" although deep down I am not always like that. When I am sad or upset it will show in my expressions but I will always fight it and act as if all is well. In that sense I am ambivalent too in my signals.. What I know for sure is that I told this man that I had feelings for him and that I wanted to stay in touch with him and be with him (for work reasons we both live in two different cities and are rarely in the same place...even though we are only 6 hours away from each other). His response was that it was over because he was leaving (the country at the time) and that he is no good at staying in touch. He said that very coldly then got really emotional (it threw me). He never attempted to contact me in over a month so I wrote him and since then he stayed in touch (this went on for years). His messages were often neutral then many months later he seemed to "warm up" and started hinting at wanting to see me again. Each time it seemed like a likelihood for us to meet up he somehow sabotaged things either by disappearing or by saying he was overseas/busy, whatever...I have to say I tried to be direct many times but I got no results..then I withdrew while still writing/talking to him and still no results. Eventually I felt helpless and stopped contact all together. Since I stopped writing he started writing more and more often. I ignore him and he writes again. I guess I can't help wondering if he has any insight into how much I feel for him.. Before I stopped contact I wrote him to let him know he hurt me with his behaviors...He barely acknowledged my words, just wrote me a very neutral letter. How would you handle this situation in my shoes? What would you do to make sure you get some kind of response before deciding to move on (if you would respond at all). Would you assume he is just playing? I know most men would say if a man is interested he would definitely follow things up, what about if someone has issues. If it is true he is no good with long distance why does he stay in touch at all? He just seems to "observe" everyone/including women he is attracted to from the distance like he is watching a movie and doesn't expect anything. I never tried to justify his actions just acknowledged he had issues and left him chances because when we were together the bond was really strong (he says that too, people around us say it also). At the same time I repeatedly tried to move on with my life but somehow he has this intuition that it takes little or no effort for him to get my attention again. How to know what the next step is before deciding to end everything? Cheers for your time
Datura Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 How to know what the next step is before deciding to end everything? Make a pros and cons list about his good qualities/bad qualities, and the pros and cons of staying in contact versus ridding yourself of him. Allow me to assist: CONS -poor relationship history -inability/unwillingness to express emotions -low self esteem -hot and cold behavior toward you -uses excuses instead of following through on plans -disregards your feelings -shows feigned interest only when you ignore him PROS your words here
Author holly369 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 Make a pros and cons list about his good qualities/bad qualities, and the pros and cons of staying in contact versus ridding yourself of him. Allow me to assist: CONS -poor relationship history -inability/unwillingness to express emotions -low self esteem -hot and cold behavior toward you -uses excuses instead of following through on plans -disregards your feelings -shows feigned interest only when you ignore him PROS your words here You bet I agree with all the cons you mentioned! If only it was that easy to focus on cons only..problem is his pros are significant ones! That is what makes it so easy to rid of him. Guess overall I am wondering if given his "weirdness" he could care at all just not be able to show it properly. If you think it is just one big game he is playing I would appreciate an eye opener. I'm probably naive but...why the heck stay in touch at all if you don't care? Cheers for your answer and taking time to read my long post
Datura Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Only the cons were listed because nothing positive about him was mentioned in your message. I am wondering if given his "weirdness" he could care at all just not be able to show it properly.That statement basically excuses his bad behavior. But playing devil's advocate... If that were the case, how does it make the situation any better? Even if the possibility existed where he could be changed, why go through such an undertaking? Do you really want to be someone's therapist? I'm probably naive but...why the heck stay in touch at all if you don't care? He doesn't seem to be the most active individual with a hectic schedule, and he's no good at pursuing relationships. He could be getting a kick out of leading you on. Maybe he likes the attention he receives from you. Whatever his reasons are, he is clearly pulling the strings. You're going to continue scratching your head by keeping in contact. More questions than answers is what you'll find yourself with.
Breayanna Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Two thoughts come to mind... 1. Intermittent reinforcement is the strongest reinforcement conditioning. It might help shed some light as to why you can't take action on this matter. 2. Passive aggression. This style of communication - this way of behaving in relationships, might also shed light on his behavior to help you understand his moves. Goggle this to understand how people who use this strategy in relationships. Either way...you already know everything you need to know to make a decision about him. Do you always want to experience what you are experiencing with him right now? Then stay. If not, then you could decide to move on. His relationship history speaks for itself.
Datura Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Only the cons were listed because nothing positive about him was mentioned in your message. To clarify, you mentioned nothing positive in terms of his treatment of you. The "sweet" bit doesn't hold much water since he is "nasty" among other things.
DollyGirl12 Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Great responses here. I agree with everyone else. You have alot to offer and deserve someone who will give you back the same. My ex also could never hold a "real" relationship, even with his ex that he was with for over 3 years. They were always on/off. When we were only friends I remember him telling me that all the woman he cared about never cared back the same, and the ones that he didn't care about were relentless. But yet, he always accepted their attention, which looking back now, after his actions with me, showed me he needed that attention. It boosted his ego. It didn't matter whether or not he led them on. I see some of the same things you talk about with the anger. I recall one day giving him some coffee that I had warmed. It was to hot. He became so angry and slammed the cup on the counter, splattering the coffee every where. One time while he was laying on the couch I caressed the top of his head and he nearly blew a gasket, yelling at me to never touch the top of his head again (I guess it was sensitive? ). Another time he was upset with me as we had a out a few days before. I got to his house for the weekend and he was trying to teach me about something that we were both involved with. He slammed the notepad on his desk and ordered me to start taking notes, leaving me in tears. After that I didn't have the desire to learn anything.
Author holly369 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Posted March 24, 2011 Hey everyone, thank you for your replies and your feedback. Not only I appreciate it but rationally I totally agree with you all. Datura no worries about needing to clarify (nice of you though ...I deliberately withdrew sweet things in this thread b/c it was long enough + it is the upsetting ones I need feedback on...and also b/c the sweet things were in the past, now I am only getting neutral answers via mail...but trust me those sweet behaviors I got from this person were well above what you would receive from the so called "average" population. They leave an impression and everyone seems to notice them in him. He did act "nasty" but always when we were too "close" for his own liking. Maybe it is a nastiness others could have put up with but I am pretty sensitive so it left a mark. And it is precisely the point of why I am so hooked. Hooked in brakets b/c I can go on with my life and all, just in the back of my mind I always have this "what if.." thought. I.e. "what if I had been more understanding and hadn't treated him like a normal man but rather like the bird with a broken wing that he wanted to show me to be..would he have opened up more?"... I once deliberately volunteered more information than necessary about my feelings towards me and 20 mins later I had him calling me telling me how happy he was to speak to me and how much he wanted to see me and missed me. It truly got me wondering if I had "messed up" my whole approach to him by mistaking him for a normal/healthy man when really he was not and while he had thought I had seen him with all his faults... I totally relate with the intermittent reinforcement + passive aggressive behavior that you mention Breayanna...I never could understand though if he uses them deliberately and in a calculating way or if he is unaware of it. Rationally I am aware of that and I ask myself a million questions...emotionally I (and him too like he told me himself) have a strong bond with him and each time we see each other (or speak to one another) it is like we never said goodbye. There is a huge complicity and tenderness and great memories of the past and great sexual connection. There really is everything except he prefers to run away rather than keep it. Only to write me month later saying he misses me, he never should have left etc. I fell in this trap many times. Now I had enough because it seems like he is pathological and his patterns of behavior will always repeat themselves in time. And am so tired of doing the chasing when I also need reassurance at times. And yup DollyGirl the anger is similar too to what you describe in your experience. He can get angry for what seems like no apparent reason to you or me ..but to him or your ex the anger seems triggered by something pretty real in their memory...they just fail to share it so we don't understand. He never acted in a violent way and only got angry by raising his voice once when I least expected it. Otherwise I think I would have ran for good. Am sorry to hear he acted like that with you, in a way happy to hear you never wanted to learn anything more about him, it means you were good at protecting yourself..unlike some of us What drives me nuts is that I cannot do a proper closure with him b/c he cannot do a proper closure himself. And b/c I DON'T understand what he wants from me. So am left wondering...a normal man doesn't act that way...a sick one..? How does he act? He always told me he was starved for affection in childhood and totally neglected. I am lucky not to have gone through that, yet I cannot fully understand it. I want to get close to him yet I get pushed away. I shouldn't even want to see him again ..is there any way to find out if he had feelings at all towards me? Am so tired of doubts but it seems whatever I do I will always stay in doubt -like you rightly say Datura..
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