My rant... and about P&R's experience

[fishtaco]

zengirl - whatever, you're just here to stir the pot. Read heartshaped's post, and learn from it. I layed everything out on the table, I didn't expect overnight change, so I've been waiting. Somehow you think that's a bad thing?

 

I'm not even dealing with you and you're already taking everything defensively on her behalf. I'm not the man that pissed you off and hurt your feelings in your past, don't take it out on me.

 

Ironically your userame is zengirl. Try to be more zen next time.

 

Anyway, please stop, I'm not answering any more of your posts.

 

I think you should lay everything out on the table, what exactly that you need in the relationship for things to work, and then, give her a bit of time to put an effort in. I don't think you'll see some overnight change, but even a little bit of effort on her side should be enough I think to justify giving things a bit more time. I still wouldn't become exclusive though until the issue was well on the way to being resolved.

 

To me, this makes sense. Lay everything out on the table. And this is what I've been trying to do, except for some reason, some posters consider this an ambiguous behavior.

 

I told all this to her back in January. I haven't seen much progress. So hopefully the phone call will resolve something, one way or another.

 

The friend I mentioned, she and I have been friends since we were children, and she's always been this way. Even with her boyfriends. I can't even really call it flaky because she's there when you need her and when she says she'll be, but getting responses to communication takes days and with the men she dates she doesn't see them nearly as often as most people see their partners.

 

Again, always using the 'busy' excuse. We caught lunch and a movie a week or two ago and I asked her about the new man she's seeing and she told me she had been too busy to see him. Yet, we were catching lunch and a movie..and I know for a fact that she wasn't really that 'busy'.

 

I have never been able to put a name to this behavior or even understand the reasoning behind it. Perhaps if someone would call the person on this type of behavior they would be willing to modify it, but I'm not completely sure. I know one thing though no matter what the issue is when dating someone, you should always tell them the problem, wait on a solution from their end, and then, do what you feel is necessary.

 

This is exactly it! She's not flaky, she's not disinterested, it's just strange to me. I don't understand it same as you. So in a way, I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

We'll see what happens if I can get a productive phone call. She told me she was going to call me last night. Unsurprisingly, she didn't.

 

But I do value P&R's input as well, so if I can verify that she is being uncomfortable around her family because we are unofficial, then I may consider jumping into a committed relationship with a known deal breaker. But I'm very reluctant to do this. It just feels wrong, like I'm setting both of us up for failure.

 

And you are right, and in fact, surprisingly even zengirl was right for a change -- her behavior may never change. Then I may just have to break it off with her. That would be too bad, because I really like her, and from what I can tell (and even my friends see this), she really likes me too.

 

LS can be a harsh place sometimes. Some people will go into people's threads all guns blazing, as if they have something to prove or someone to punish. So I thank you for being the voice of reason here. And thank you for your example of your friend, so at least I know I'm not going crazy.

[carhill]

I don't think my "demands" are as unreasonable as zengirl thinks. I want to see her every weekend, and we can switch off every other weekend where she comes down to me for one weekend, and I go up to her for the next. I think that's pretty reasonable even when we're just dating and not official. It's not unusual to go on a date once a week. But, I'm not even getting that right now.

 

My exW and I had similar distances and this is exactly what we did for the 18 months prior to getting married. I don't believe in cohabiting prior to marriage and, in our case, it would have involved moving her business, something contraindicated prior to an 'official' commitment.

 

I have no opinion on the rest of the thread but I think this one parameter, seeing each other weekly, is reasonable and healthy. Good luck

[fishtaco]

My exW and I had similar distances and this is exactly what we did for the 18 months prior to getting married. I don't believe in cohabiting prior to marriage and, in our case, it would have involved moving her business, something contraindicated prior to an 'official' commitment.

 

I have no opinion on the rest of the thread but I think this one parameter, seeing each other weekly, is reasonable and healthy. Good luck

 

Thanks carhill.

 

One of my ex-girlfriends lived 120 miles away, twice the distance. We managed to see each other every weekend. We took the train. We made it work. So I do believe that is a reasonable and healthy thing to ask for, and I believe it's possible with my girl, if she's willing.

 

Unfortunately, I made mistakes in the relationship with the ex that I regret still to this day. It was a hard lesson, but hopefully I won't repeat that mistake in the future. But that's a different story.

[zengirl]

Ironically your userame is zengirl. Try to be more zen next time.

 

This is zen as I learned it in Asia. Zen isn't fluffy bunny stuff. It's pretty in your face.

 

I won't give you any more advice here, except to say you are characterizing my advice incorrectly: I did not say you have unrealistic expectations; I said the way you were going about them was lame.

 

After reading the whole thread, I think you know this isn't going to work (hence why you withheld commitment so deliberately and in such a canned way---which is what I said was wrong, not the expectations you have in seeing her more frequently or communicating well; these are reasonable demands---I simply disagree with deliberately withholding commitment while claiming to want it) and haven't accepted it. Pretty common.

[snug.bunny]

This girl doesn't know what she is missing.... I mean, she should feel honored to be chosen as your lead girl from your prior Harem.

 

How about you talk to her openly and let her know that you like her and wish to be exclusive and stop pussy-footing around.

[fishtaco]

This girl doesn't know what she is missing.... I mean, she should feel honored to be chosen as your lead girl from your prior Harem.

 

How about you talk to her openly and let her know that you like her and wish to be exclusive and stop pussy-footing around.

 

I have a better idea, how about you read the posts? I already did back in January.

[snug.bunny]

I have a better idea, how about you read the posts? I already did back in January.

 

I did read your post. It said:

 

I'm in a non-exclusive relationship

 

I'm having time and communication issues with my girl. I already told her once the time issue is resolved, I'll ask her to be my girlfriend officially.

 

What am I missing?

[fishtaco]

Look I don't appreciate your sarcastic attitude. You open a post like that, expect the same in return. Just like zengirl wants to do in your face, well, then in her face too. We could probably had a much more meaningful discussion about why we disagree with each other. But her choice, just like your choice to be sarcastic.

 

What am I missing?

 

Apparently reading comprehension.

 

Here's your post.

 

How about you talk to her openly and let her know that you like her and wish to be exclusive and stop pussy-footing around.

 

I talked to her openly in January, and laid everything out in the open:

 

- I like her, I wish for exclusivity, but

- I don't want a relationship that I only see my girlfriend once a month, so let us both work on seeing each other more often

 

I was open with the issues, I told her I like her, and I told her my wish to be officially exclusive with her. All this back in January.

 

Even in your face zengirl agreed that my demands were not unreasonable.

 

Shall I retype anything else for you?

[threebyfate]

Even our mini fight consisted of just me asking why she was ignoring me, but she just kept saying "don't be mad at me, I like you a lot". So at this point I'm still confused about what's going on, and I feel guilty for upsetting her. Hopefully the phone conversation, when it happens, will shed some light.

Forget feeling guilty. I'd suggest you nail the bolded down. People who avoid direct questions are usually hiding something you're not going to enjoy hearing.

[snug.bunny]

I talked to her openly in January, and laid everything out in the open:

 

- I like her, I wish for exclusivity, but

- I don't want a relationship that I only see my girlfriend once a month, so let us both work on seeing each other more often

 

I was open with the issues, I told her I like her, and I told her my wish to be officially exclusive with her. All this back in January.

 

Even in your face zengirl agreed that my demands were not unreasonable.

 

Shall I retype anything else for you?

 

My apologies....

 

I still do not see what you wrote above, anywhere in your first post, except for not wanting a relationship where you only see the other person once per month (which is understandable).

 

My natural response to your opening post, was based on what I read and how you came across. I was also thrown off by the numerous women you mentioned within your post, which doesn't demonstrate to me, a man who is seriously interested in one woman and a desire to be with her only.

 

In any event, now that I know the full story, I would perceive your request (in the way you framed it) as "either see me more than once per month, or I will date other women". Which is fine, since you said you laid it all out on the table back in January, and she declined. If your goal is to achieve a committed relationship with someone, it is clear she is not on the same page as you, at this point in time. Wouldn't you say?

[fishtaco]

Forget feeling guilty. I'd suggest you nail the bolded down. People who avoid direct questions are usually hiding something you're not going to enjoy hearing.

 

Yeah, heartshaped brought up the same point. And I think you are both right. This is something I overlooked before. Thanks for pointing this out. But this is worrying me.

 

When I talk to her on the phone, eventually, I hope I can figure out what's going on. And I'm sure you'd agree with me that at this point, I rather hear things I don't want to hear now, than let it drag on.

[threebyfate]

Yeah, heartshaped brought up the same point. And I think you are both right. This is something I overlooked before. Thanks for pointing this out. But this is worrying me.

 

When I talk to her on the phone, eventually, I hope I can figure out what's going on. And I'm sure you'd agree with me that at this point, I rather hear things I don't want to hear now, than let it drag on.

Sorry. Missed heartshaped's post about this since I quickly scanned the thread and was focused more on your responses than everyone else's posts.

 

But that one thing leapt out at me hard. In my experience, ambiguity or avoidance has always represented something negative being concealed. If you can get it out in the open, reliant on severity of issue, some things can be worked on if both are determined to make things work. Do be careful since hiding things can be a form of control and unilateral decision making.

 

Anyways, as far as multi-dating is concerned, as long as everyone's in the know, not sure what the big deal is all about. Those that can multi-date, do. Those that can't appear to crap all over it.

[fishtaco]

My apologies....

 

I still do not see what you wrote above, anywhere in your first post, except for not wanting a relationship where you only see the other person once per month (which is understandable).

 

My natural response to your opening post, was based on what I read and how you came across. I was also thrown off by the numerous women you mentioned within your post, which doesn't demonstrate to me, a man who is seriously interested in one woman and a desire to be with her only.

 

In any event, now that I know the full story, I would perceive your request (in the way you framed it) as "either see me more than once per month, or I will date other women". Which is fine, since you said you laid it all out on the table back in January, and she declined. If your goal is to achieve a committed relationship with someone, it is clear she is not on the same page as you, at this point in time. Wouldn't you say?

 

No apology necessary. All I want is civilized discussions. My opening post didn't have all the information, because I was trying to avoid writing a giant novel. But looks like it turned out that way anyway.

 

You are right, and I agree with you. She didn't flat out say she couldn't do it. And because I like her so much, it's sort of you can even say wishful thinking on my part that this will work out.

 

Maybe she has even thrown me signs that it won't work, but because I want to be with her so much I ignored them, I don't know. I'm not in love yet, but love is blind applies even before love happens.

 

So now because my patience is running out, maybe I'll have clearer vision, and make the right choice.

 

Either way, I'd like to get as much information as I can, before I make the decision. Because this will be a big decision. I really want this exclusivity to happen with her, but at the same time, I have enough experience to know a bad relationship is well, bad, and should be avoided.

 

It all hinges on a productive conversation with her. Hopefully it'll happen soon.

[fishtaco]

Sorry. Missed heartshaped's post about this since I quickly scanned the thread and was focused more on your responses than everyone else's posts.

 

But that one thing leapt out at me hard. In my experience, ambiguity or avoidance has always represented something negative being concealed. If you can get it out in the open, reliant on severity of issue, some things can be worked on if both are determined to make things work. Do be careful since hiding things can be a form of control and unilateral decision making.

 

Anyways, as far as multi-dating is concerned, as long as everyone's in the know, not sure what the big deal is all about. Those that can multi-date, do. Those that can't appear to crap all over it.

 

No need for sorry. The fact that two people picked that out only validates the concern. So I thank you anyway.

 

And I have to say I agree with your views on multidating.

[snug.bunny]

No apology necessary. All I want is civilized discussions. My opening post didn't have all the information, because I was trying to avoid writing a giant novel. But looks like it turned out that way anyway.

 

You are right, and I agree with you. She didn't flat out say she couldn't do it. And because I like her so much, it's sort of you can even say wishful thinking on my part that this will work out.

 

Maybe she has even thrown me signs that it won't work, but because I want to be with her so much I ignored them, I don't know. I'm not in love yet, but love is blind applies even before love happens.

 

So now because my patience is running out, maybe I'll have clearer vision, and make the right choice.

 

Either way, I'd like to get as much information as I can, before I make the decision. Because this will be a big decision. I really want this exclusivity to happen with her, but at the same time, I have enough experience to know a bad relationship is well, bad, and should be avoided.

 

It all hinges on a productive conversation with her. Hopefully it'll happen soon.

 

That sounds really good. Had I read the above first, my natural response most likely wouldn't have been so saucy. You deserve an equal partner, to give/receive love that is mutually satisfying. If she doesn't agree, then off she goes!

[fishtaco]

That sounds really good. Had I read the above first, my natural response most likely wouldn't have been so saucy. You deserve an equal partner, to give/receive love that is mutually satisfying. If she doesn't agree, then off she goes!

 

Thanks. I apologize for my smartass remarks too. My preference is to stay polite, but I have a tendency to punch back.

[snug.bunny]

Thanks. I apologize for my smartass remarks too. My preference is to stay polite, but I have a tendency to punch back.

 

I forgive you, and thank you for forgiving me too.

 

Peace!

[fishtaco]

I hope you are not taking some of the female responders here seriously. A very skewed perspective from them compartmentalized internally by internal dialect spawned by life experiences, or their perception of what they think it should be. Some of it is amusing, some of it is annoying as hell. Yet, you get put under a microscope for a litany of reasons that had nothing to do with you!

 

Yup, I've been around LS to know many people, men and women, often walk into a thread with preconceived notion and their own strong bias. And the gender war is very much alive, because you see people giving posters of their opposite gender a unnecessarily hard time frequently. But, if people are willing to stay polite and have a civilized discussion, then I'm okay with it.

 

Why you want to give up multi-dating is none of my concern, I myself have no intention of it. If it were me? I wouldn't allow a girl (girl number one is it?) the power to compromise who I am.

 

This thread turned out to be pretty big, so let me clarify my position.

 

- I DO want LTR. So it's natural for me to end multidate in order to achieve LTR.

- One of the deal breakers is quality time. I WANT to spend quality time with my girl. Otherwise why even bother? I might as well go back to multidating. I think that's reasonable given my goals. And the current situation is actually she can't give me the time I'm looking for.

- I have been completely open and honest about my needs, the issues, and my wish to engage in a LTR with her.

 

Be yourself and don't be weak. If you think there is any doubt, get out now.

 

Even though you have the situation reversed, this is very much true either way.

 

Being a multidater yourself, you know it's nice to have options. And so do I. But I'm willing to give all that up for her. Because she is what I want. But, at the same time, like you said, I can't compromise myself and just give in. That's just a recipe for disaster, and disaster is bad for both of us.

 

I agree with the get out advice. But, part of being in a serious relationship is to work things out as opposed to getting out. So I am obligated, and willing at the same time, to give it a good shot and try to make things work. If I fail, then yes, I'm out, and I'll be multidating again.

 

So we'll see. Maybe I'll have sad news soon. Either way, I hope to have news, any news. The worst is to leave this unresolved.

[fishtaco]

So another week. No progress. Can't even get a phone call out of her.

 

If I were still multidating this would be no issue. Because I wouldn't be invested. But I can't reach LTR if I never invest so this was a gamble. But, because I'm invested, it makes me feel... well, unpleasant.

 

I'm feeling sad and disappointed because I feel a very strong pull to detach. And I've done this before. I know what to do, and I know how effective I am at it. Which makes me feel sad. The more I want to stay in the zone to remain invested and attached, the more my emotional side is slipping away. Every day I don't get this resolved, or some positive signs from her, the less I care.

 

I think I've just crossed the threshold. I'm now paving the way to back off the relationship. Had she talked to me even a couple of days before, I may have a different attitude.

 

I just emailed her sister, who is a long time friend of mine, to let her know what's going on. My main goal, is to tell her my side of the story, without pointing finger at my girl (I'm not stupid, that's her sister, even if my girl were the evil one my friend would be on her sister's side anyway, not interested in stirring up drama). Because I want let her know I was serious about her sister, and I wasn't playing around. I'm doing this because I want to keep the friendship with her sister. And her sister knows how I date. And in fact in the beginning warned my girl about me. But I believe I've proven myself to have put in a genuine effort.

 

So at least in email her sister is receptive; I made it as tactful and non-accusatory as I could. But we'll see what happens in practice when I do pull away.

 

So starting right now, if the call happens, I'll steer her toward backing off to casual dating; how we were before January basically. But I want the phone call because I want to give her a chance to convince me otherwise, but she'll need to show me proof.

 

If I don't get anything next week, I'll just leave a voicemail/txt msg and be done with it. But hey, I tried, probably more than some people would have.