fishtaco Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 So I'm in a non-exclusive relationship, but I stopped multidating because I am getting serious. And I'm having some issues. I've mentioned this to papercut, and Eternal Sunshine's thread, and they were saying I should post it. Although advice is welcome, I already know what I have to do, so this is like a rant. But this is also inspired by P&R's experience with multidating. He said he dated a girl that was multidating, and even though he got the girl, it was a horrible experience. Hence he is against multidating. Well, my experience is actually the opposite. Oct/Nov timeframe, I was multidating three women. Mid November, one of them dropped off, her choice, not mine. That same week the second one kicked into high gear. Good thing I was multidating. Then late November, #2 became super flaky and not her usual self. I know what that means, and it took me another two weeks to finally track her down and do the "let's be friends" speech because she wouldn't do it. But, good thing I was multidating. #3 kicked into high gear, and stayed there. I did meet some women and got one number, in order to replace the two that were gone, but nothing happened. Then by January, I decided to get serious with #3 and I stopped multidating. So, my experience with multidating worked out well, and I'd do it again if I had to. Were the women multidating other men? Were they making out with other guys? Maybe, maybe not, I don't care. This allowed for a very low drama conclusion. So currently, I'm still on good terms with girl #1 and #2. In fact, girl #2 is coming to my birthday party (when I say let's be friends, I mean it). Now I'm not multidating, and I'm having difficulties. I'm having time and communication issues with my girl. I already told her once the time issue is resolved, I'll ask her to be my girlfriend officially. So far, no progress. And she has a tendency to randomly not respond to my communications, for days at a time. Normally that's a bad sign, and that means it's time to bail. But I know her well enough to know that she's not doing it because she's flaking (like girl #2), but I don't know what the reason is either. Over the weekend we had a mini fight about it via txt msg. Yes, it's difficult to get her on the phone. Why? I have no idea. But I told her we need to talk. And during the talk, I'll bring up these issues. So I'm waiting for her busy schedule to "clear up" for the talk. Why am I putting up with this? Because I'm serious. When I'm in serious mode, I try to resolve problems instead of walk away from them. But if I were still multidating, this wouldn't bother me at all. No response? Too busy? Ok, that means I'll be going on a date with someone else this weekend. I gave you priority, you choose not to take it, not my problem. So despite the fact that when I do get to spend time with her, it's like magic. We have loads of chemistry together. Eventually my patience is going to run out, and I'll go back to mutlidating. I would tell her first of course, and then she can choose to be one of my girls or break it off. We'll see what happens.
Mrlonelyone Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 What you are dating is what used to be called just plain dating. People don't work out as a couple it's too bad, we move on to the next number in their little black book (or cell phone now a days.) Then people started saying they were "dating {insert name}" when they really meant they were really serious about {insert name}. That changed the meaning of it. What you are doing is the right thing. So long as everyone knows that exclusivity does not come from X number of dates.
Author fishtaco Posted March 21, 2011 Author Posted March 21, 2011 What you are dating is what used to be called just plain dating. People don't work out as a couple it's too bad, we move on to the next number in their little black book (or cell phone now a days.) Then people started saying they were "dating {insert name}" when they really meant they were really serious about {insert name}. That changed the meaning of it. What you are doing is the right thing. So long as everyone knows that exclusivity does not come from X number of dates. Well, that's the thing. From what I get from LS, and previous fairly insulting threads about multidating, seems like some people do not multidate at all. As if once a number is given out, it's locked in. Then I start to read about it's actually okay to multidate, as long as it doesn't reach "X" number of dates or something. This time around, it just so happened that girl #1 and #2 didn't last past one month. But if they stuck around, I would have kept multidating every one of them. Although either way I probably would have made a decision by now regarding who to go serious with. Could have been any of them. There are something I like about each one of them. The bottom line rule is, it's all fun and games until exclusivity happens. Not because I want it to be this way, but because this is how it is. I can recognize that and be prepared for it, or I can pretend the world is made out of flowers and rainbows. But in practice, people tend to be less mechanical about it. I entered into a serious but not "official" relationship, hoping for the best. Yes, it's a risk, but one that I'm willing to take. With that said, just because I'm serious doesn't mean I'm stupid. I fully realize the possibility of not being able to work things out with my girl. Since she ignores me from time to time, I went out and socialized, and have a plan of approach for the next two women I'll hit on, should I go back to multidating. So far I didn't do anything other than meet them and got to know them a bit. I'm not going to go pass that unless I'm back on the market. That's a good thing about being a guy. I have control. If I don't initiate, 95% of the time, women won't, thus it's easier to keep someone at the "right" distance. So I'm doing the dance where I'm trying not to fall into friend zone with them, and I'm trying not to end up dropping off their vision, while I work on these problems with my girl. Another thing I believe in, is to be prepared. Have a plan for every situation.
P&R Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Let me clarify... I'm against multi-dating if it isn't done ethically. For example what my now girlfriend was doing. While she told me she was multi-dating but she was showing signs that she wanted a relationship with me a month in. When I brought it up she would go silent and change the conversation. I dated her for around 4 months until I gained exclusivity, and during this time she also kept bringing in new guys. Not only that I know she was having make out sessions with the other guys. She told me that she couldn't connect with the me or the other guys at all emotionally until she broke it off with them. Ironically I think I'm the person that led her to multi-date. (we were friends, she was flirting with me and had a crush, and I wasn't responding. I think she dated other guys so she could forget that she liked me to perserve our friendship) What I took away from my experience that multi-dating doesn't work for everyone, and not everyone can manage it. It isn't something I would recommend for everybody. Edited March 21, 2011 by P&R
Author fishtaco Posted March 21, 2011 Author Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Let me clarify... I'm against multi-dating if it isn't done ethically. For example what my now girlfriend was doing. While she told me she was multi-dating but she was showing signs that she wanted a relationship with me a month in. When I brought it up she would go silent and change the conversation. I dated her for around 4 months until I gained exclusivity, and during this time she also kept bringing in new guys. Not only that I know she was having make out sessions with the other guys. Nevermind... I just read your other post from the thread you talked about your experience, and I understand what you're talking about better now. So my response sort of didn't apply anymore... Edited March 21, 2011 by fishtaco misunderstood P&R
P&R Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 That's the thing. What she did IS multidating. When you brought up exclusivity, she wasn't ready for it. Which is a common occurrence. This situation of one person wants to move faster than the other person is common even in non-multidating situations. It was bad form for her to dodge the conversation. But as far as I'm concerned, that's the same as saying I'm not ready to commit. Again, non-multidaters run into this all the time too. As for making out with multiple people, I did it, so I can't say the women I'm dating can't do it. I'd be a hypocrite. So that doesn't bother me. As long as exclusivity isn't reached, she could do whatever she wants to. So can I. But it doesn't mean I will push the limit. Like I mentioned, in practical situations, people don't usually push for the limit, but they can if they choose to. Even if my girl starts sleeping around with other guys right now, I can't fault her for it, I didn't ask her for exclusivity. But if I found that out I would stop being exclusive with her and I'd start dating around again. And then we'll see what happens at the end. So I'm not trying to convince you that you MUST LIKE IT. Like you said, it's not for everyone. But what she did IS multidating, and from my perspective, she didn't do anything wrong, other than dodging the conversation was kind of lame. And I'm not saying you're wrong I'm right. I'm just contrasting your negative experience with my positive experience. As long as people recognize multidating as a valid approach, that's good enough for me. Look I wouldn't have minded it if she wasn't having serious conversations about relationships and then when I would mention exclusivity she'd go uhhhhhhh...... She would usually be the one who brought up talks about relationships too. Not only did she dodge the conversation one could say she brought it up.
Cee Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I think what you are doing, fishtaco, is the ideal way multidating should be done. You only dated women that you had genuine interest in. And you weren't comparing these women like you'd do with melons () at the supermarket. You gave each a fair chance on their own merits. The kind of multidating I dealt with were men who had little interest in me from the get go and kept me in the wings until they decided to drop me. I would have preferred a fast fade than infrequent and ambivalent contact. The main problem I personally have with multidating is I simply don't have the time. I work a full time job that sometimes requires overtime. Then, I spend 3 days a week with friends and at social events or dance parties. I'd never sacrifice my friends or interests for a romantic relationship. Once a week I volunteer with a political group. And I need at least a couple of days to myself for reading, housework exercise, and solitude.
heartshaped Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Obviously, you are serious about this woman, but have you considered the fact she isn't serious about you? I'd be willing to bet she isn't that interested, she likes you sure, but not to the level you are interested in her. She's also probably dating other guys.
Crazy Magnet Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 My approach is going to be something like fishtaco when the time is right. For now I'm in meet people mode and eventually I'll settle on three to see where things go. Meeting up with a man once every 2 or 3 weeks hardly constitutes "dating" to me, but it does keep me occupied and gets me out of the house. For now I'm fine with communication every few days through email and the occasional get together. No making out for me though.
ChessPieceFace Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 3 times the women = 3 times the headache IMO I can see the appeal of it -- you "speed up the process" and also don't have to worry about rejection as much. However, after reading all the comments, overall it seems like you're losing more than you gain, at least if the women are aware of it. But lying about that could have serious consequences. Seems to me it might be better to just go on a string of first dates with different women without implying anything serious. Then just try the ones you think work best for you. Maybe not multi-date but maybe be much easier to move on to the next one if things don't seem to be working out. Also note that everything I suggest is theoretical as I've never had any success in my 35 years of life or really even tried very often. Even though most of my friends tell me not to give up, I'm very unlike what men are "supposed to be" to get women and I've all but given up on my own dating future.
P&R Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) So I'm in a non-exclusive relationship, but I stopped multidating because I am getting serious. And I'm having some issues. I've mentioned this to papercut, and Eternal Sunshine's thread, and they were saying I should post it. Although advice is welcome, I already know what I have to do, so this is like a rant. But this is also inspired by P&R's experience with multidating. He said he dated a girl that was multidating, and even though he got the girl, it was a horrible experience. Hence he is against multidating. Well, my experience is actually the opposite. Oct/Nov timeframe, I was multidating three women. Mid November, one of them dropped off, her choice, not mine. That same week the second one kicked into high gear. Good thing I was multidating. Then late November, #2 became super flaky and not her usual self. I know what that means, and it took me another two weeks to finally track her down and do the "let's be friends" speech because she wouldn't do it. But, good thing I was multidating. #3 kicked into high gear, and stayed there. I did meet some women and got one number, in order to replace the two that were gone, but nothing happened. Then by January, I decided to get serious with #3 and I stopped multidating. So, my experience with multidating worked out well, and I'd do it again if I had to. Were the women multidating other men? Were they making out with other guys? Maybe, maybe not, I don't care. This allowed for a very low drama conclusion. So currently, I'm still on good terms with girl #1 and #2. In fact, girl #2 is coming to my birthday party (when I say let's be friends, I mean it). Now I'm not multidating, and I'm having difficulties. I'm having time and communication issues with my girl. I already told her once the time issue is resolved, I'll ask her to be my girlfriend officially. So far, no progress. And she has a tendency to randomly not respond to my communications, for days at a time. Normally that's a bad sign, and that means it's time to bail. But I know her well enough to know that she's not doing it because she's flaking (like girl #2), but I don't know what the reason is either. Over the weekend we had a mini fight about it via txt msg. Yes, it's difficult to get her on the phone. Why? I have no idea. But I told her we need to talk. And during the talk, I'll bring up these issues. So I'm waiting for her busy schedule to "clear up" for the talk. Why am I putting up with this? Because I'm serious. When I'm in serious mode, I try to resolve problems instead of walk away from them. But if I were still multidating, this wouldn't bother me at all. No response? Too busy? Ok, that means I'll be going on a date with someone else this weekend. I gave you priority, you choose not to take it, not my problem. So despite the fact that when I do get to spend time with her, it's like magic. We have loads of chemistry together. Eventually my patience is going to run out, and I'll go back to mutlidating. I would tell her first of course, and then she can choose to be one of my girls or break it off. We'll see what happens. Actually this sounds like my situation to be honest with you now that I've came back and read your whole post, minus the friendship aspect on the line. We even had a few mini fights over text!!!! How long have you guys been dating? I'd just ask her for exclusivity and if she says no, move on. Although this is the best relationship I've ever been in I don't wish for anybody to go what I went through during the dating process. Whatever you do keep yourself from falling in love like I did until you gain exclusivity, if you even gain it at all. Edited March 22, 2011 by P&R
zengirl Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I don't really think your main issues here have much to do with multidating (in which ethics are various---I consider it just "dating" as someone else said upthread, personally, and I don't play men off each other, or get serious with one while making out with others, or compare them like groceries, etc). At any rate, to get to your issue. . . Now I'm not multidating, and I'm having difficulties. I'm having time and communication issues with my girl. I already told her once the time issue is resolved, I'll ask her to be my girlfriend officially. I'm sorry, but this seems a bit silly to me. You've told her that at some random point you'll ask her to be your GF. This sounds like an unneccesary step. Ask or don't ask. This just seems. . . . wishy washy. And is the time issue yours or hers? If the time issue is on YOUR side (i.e. you don't have time) and you haven't really pursued commitment, she's right not to give you too much attention or interest. Why should she? She might think you're not as interested or stringing her along. If you see her as a potential girlfriend, just ask her. So far, no progress. And she has a tendency to randomly not respond to my communications, for days at a time. Normally that's a bad sign, and that means it's time to bail. But I know her well enough to know that she's not doing it because she's flaking (like girl #2), but I don't know what the reason is either. Over the weekend we had a mini fight about it via txt msg. Yes, it's difficult to get her on the phone. Why? I have no idea. But I told her we need to talk. And during the talk, I'll bring up these issues. So I'm waiting for her busy schedule to "clear up" for the talk. Why am I putting up with this? Because I'm serious. When I'm in serious mode, I try to resolve problems instead of walk away from them. However, if she is noncommunicative, I'd take this as a red flag. Either she's not that into you, she's seeing others still (and wants to keep it that way), she's playing games, or she's just not good at staying in touch. At any rate, if you're already fighting, that's a bad sign. You need to accept her tendencies or not (if it's a tendency). Though if she's playing games, it could be because you are too --- that "some day I'll ask you to be my GF" thing sounds like a game to me too. Tell her how you feel, ask her for commitment, express the kind of communication and relationship you want, and see if she wants it to. It really is that simple. Accept that she may not want it. Or may not want it yet. And go from there. In this case, you're saying multidating would take the pressure off. You're right, in a way, but you stopped multidating because you wanted the pressure to a degree, because you saw potential. But you're being wishy washy about it, and that leads to frustration. Choose a path and walk it.
Author fishtaco Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 zengirl - I guess I wasn't clear in my post. This thread consists of two parts, first part was that I was inspired by P&R's negative multidating experience, but I wanted to share that I have a positive one. Second part was my issue. And to answer your question, I'm not wishy washy. Let me clarify, the time issue is on her side. I'm not going to have a girlfriend who's too busy for me. So at the current state of our relationship, I simply WILL NOT ask her to be my girlfriend. But at the same time, I want her to know I AM serious about her, so I told her as long as she can manage to fit me into her life, I will ask her to be my girlfriend. And I am giving her time to make this happen. I believe I'm being clear and to the point. Even though I like her a lot, I am NOT going to compromise myself. I believe that's not wishy washy. Hope that clears things up for you. As for her communication issue, I believe she's not playing games. She's just someone that's really bad at communication. So this I believe is the easier problem to solve. I'm going to tell her my perspective (which is the common perspective), of how people communicate. I don't expect her to make a 180 degree change, but I'm hoping to see progress. As for the time issue, I'll hold off on that for now, I don't want to stress her out too much. She just had some personal issues happen last week that she's dealing with. And to be clear, the communication and time issues were already there before the personal issue happened. So the personal issue made it worse, but is not the cause. Sure, the fact that we're fighting is not a good sign. But considering that we've been seeing each other, casually at first, since October of last year, and this is a mini fight about a known issue, I don't think it's a big deal. P&R - we started in October, but I was multidating back then, and it was very casual. She was "busy" and bad at communication back then, but I didn't care because I had two other women I was dating. We became serious in January, because I made the decision that our chemistry and personality fit so well that I'm willing to attempt to work through these issues with her. And I can't ask her to be my girlfriend because although the communication issue is annoying, the time issue is a deal breaker for me. Read my response to zengirl above for more details. ChessPieceFace - Quite the contrary, I didn't have headaches until I STOPPED multidating. Multidating is casual, and you have options, so you side step a lot of these headaches. If things get too difficult, the worst case scenario you cut her off and go get another one. It's when you get serious and in "problem solving" mode as opposed to "problem avoidance mode" that it becomes work. But relationships are work. No one walk off into the sunset and live happily after without putting in the effort to make it work. Crazy magnet - I personally would recommend multidating. I practice what I preach. But I'm also going to say it's not for everyone. Do try it out, but if it doesn't work for you, don't stick with it like the law. Find what works for you. P&R brought up the point that his girlfriend was unable to move toward serious relationship due to the fact that she was multidating. I don't have that problem, as seen by this thread, so it's not a concern of mine. But if you're like his girlfriend, then you may want to keep your eyes wide open and figure out what works the best for you. heartshaped - Yes, that is a distinct possibility. I'm going to make a judgment call that she IS interested and she is NOT multidating, based what I know of her, despite the signs. I believe there has to be trust before anything can go anywhere. I'm going to give her my trust, because I'm serious with her. If I fall flat on my face, well, then I'll try to be a better judge of character next time, and I hope I fall flat on my face ASAP, so I can move on. cee - Thanks. It's very difficult to compare women (the ones that have caught my interest), because they all bring something to the table, otherwise they wouldn't have caught my attention in the first place. I date to reach LTR. So if your experience were with multidating guys that were just goofing around, it may be due to different dating goals and not the dating "style".
P&R Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Why don't you ask the girl you're seeing for exclusivity right now? I know my girlfriend only saw me maybe one a week outside of my college, if that. Once we became exclusive she found a way to fit me into her busy schedule. Let her know that you EXPECT to have her make time for you. Tell her that it is an expectation that you have. If she doesn't meet your expectation then break it off, and continue doing what you have been doing.
Author fishtaco Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 Why don't you ask the girl you're seeing for exclusivity right now? I know my girlfriend only saw me maybe one a week outside of my college, if that. Once we became exclusive she found a way to fit me into her busy schedule. Let her know that you EXPECT to have her make time for you. Tell her that it is an expectation that you have. If she doesn't meet your expectation then break it off, and continue doing what you have been doing. Normally I'd like to have all the pieces before I ask for exclusivity, because to me, that's a big deal. I don't like to get into it then break it off. Hence I want to see the time commitment, before we become official. But I'm going to consider your suggestion. It may even solve both time and communication problems. She's Mexican. Not the super traditional types, otherwise we wouldn't be having sex. But traditional enough that she acts differently around her family, even though she's 29. So I think the fact that we're sleeping together but not official may make her embarrassed around her family. And she's around her family a lot, which is pretty common for Mexican people. Maybe to the point where she doesn't want to let her mom hear her phone conversation with me, or doesn't want to be running around with me all the time. Well, I've learned in my past to not make excuses for the other person, it's their job, not mine. And this sort of thinking is exactly that - I'm making excuses for her behavior. So first thing first, I need the talk to happen. We have language issues too, her English isn't that great, and my Spanish vocabulary only consist of bad words. So maybe I'll ask some questions regarding my paragraph above, and see what I can find out. But thank you for your suggestion. It's definite a different approach that I have not thought about. I feel I need to gather more information first, then I'll give it a serious consideration. I know what I'm doing reasonably well when it comes to dating, but I expect the woman to be the same way. My girl doesn't have a lot of dating experience, combined with the language barrier, and a passive personality, I think maybe she can't even figure out and/or verbalize what it is that she wants/needs/looking for. Even our mini fight consisted of just me asking why she was ignoring me, but she just kept saying "don't be mad at me, I like you a lot". So at this point I'm still confused about what's going on, and I feel guilty for upsetting her. Hopefully the phone conversation, when it happens, will shed some light.
zengirl Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 And to answer your question, I'm not wishy washy. Let me clarify, the time issue is on her side. I'm not going to have a girlfriend who's too busy for me. So at the current state of our relationship, I simply WILL NOT ask her to be my girlfriend. But at the same time, I want her to know I AM serious about her, so I told her as long as she can manage to fit me into her life, I will ask her to be my girlfriend. Oh, this is starting off badly. You're already using a carrot-and-stick approach, and that never goes well. Again, I stick with: You're being wishy washy. You want some version of her to be your girlfriend, but not who she actually is with her life right now. I understand asking for more time, but posing it as "If you change this, I'll as you to be my girlfriend" is still pretty lame, in my book. As for her communication issue, I believe she's not playing games. She's just someone that's really bad at communication. So this I believe is the easier problem to solve. Oh, the game thing would be way easier to solve. This is going to be much more difficult to solve. If she's bad at communicating, and you guys aren't 18 or something (which I thought you were a professional adult, so correct me if I'm wrong), she'll always be bad at communicating. Certainly for a long time to come. Sure, the fact that we're fighting is not a good sign. But considering that we've been seeing each other, casually at first, since October of last year, and this is a mini fight about a known issue, I don't think it's a big deal. I would also say it's a HUGE issue you aren't exclusive after so many months too. I wish you luck, but I think it sounds pretty rough.
zengirl Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Why don't you ask the girl you're seeing for exclusivity right now? I know my girlfriend only saw me maybe one a week outside of my college, if that. Once we became exclusive she found a way to fit me into her busy schedule. Let her know that you EXPECT to have her make time for you. Tell her that it is an expectation that you have. If she doesn't meet your expectation then break it off, and continue doing what you have been doing. And, for the record, I agree with this approach. Give first, then get, usually works a lot better than "I'll do this, if you do that."
Author fishtaco Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 Oh, this is starting off badly. You're already using a carrot-and-stick approach, and that never goes well. Again, I stick with: You're being wishy washy. You want some version of her to be your girlfriend, but not who she actually is with her life right now. I understand asking for more time, but posing it as "If you change this, I'll as you to be my girlfriend" is still pretty lame, in my book. Compromising myself and walk into a situation with a known deal breaker is lame in my books, so we disagree. Maybe you don't take serious relationships seriously, and you just walk into dealbreakers figuring you can always bail later. I'm not that way. Oh, the game thing would be way easier to solve. This is going to be much more difficult to solve. If she's bad at communicating, and you guys aren't 18 or something (which I thought you were a professional adult, so correct me if I'm wrong), she'll always be bad at communicating. Certainly for a long time to come. Sounds like you're saying I should just break it off with her. I would also say it's a HUGE issue you aren't exclusive after so many months too. I wish you luck, but I think it sounds pretty rough. I never get into exclusivity quickly. It takes months for me normally. Again, because I don't like to jump in and out of relationships. I make sure everything is right before I commit. I happen to take commitment very seriously, maybe you disagree with my seriousness with the commitments I make, but that's just how I am.
iron_m Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 One thing I don't understand from the original post is this: Why are you having communication/time issues now that you did not have before, when you were juggling dates with three women? 1) Was She acting the same before, but you did not care because you had G1,G2,G3 to communicate with and now it is you who is "needy" and request an Instant answer on all emails/text/phone calls? 2) Did she changed her attitude after knowing you are not dating anyone else and is now becoming "less available" now that she know you are being exclusive? Two very different reasons with very different meanings (to you). And yes, implicitly you are giving her exclusivity. You know it. Does she know it? It sounds a bit odd to me a conversation along the lines "I am not dating anyone except you now, but this is non-exclusive ~for now~. When we resolve the issue of time and attention, I will ask you to be my 'official' GF"... I mean, the message sounds very ambiguous to me.
Emilia Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 it sounds to me OP that you are not confident enough to ask her what she is after in fear of finding out she isn't looking for anything serious. the fact that she communicates so randomly suggests to me she isn't looking to invest that much emotionally. could be because she doesn't know what you want (as you haven't told her by the sound of it) or it could be that she isn't looking for a serious relationship with you. you should ask her
zengirl Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 fishtaco, you sound commitmentphobic to me. Unless that improves, I cannot see you finding good partners or keeping good partners when you find them. I'm not saying you're dramatically commitmentphobic like the typical Poster Child people think of who wants to play around forever, but just that your reluctance to get into relationships and fears that seem to be holding you back (that's what this wait and see thing is; it's a sign of fear; and it's what I describe as wishy washy earlier). Just my thoughts. Compromising myself and walk into a situation with a known deal breaker is lame in my books, so we disagree. You're already IN the situation. Refusing to be serious about it until someone does what you want is still being in it. If it's a real dealbreaker, what are you even doing there? That sounds unhealthy to me. Maybe you don't take serious relationships seriously, and you just walk into dealbreakers figuring you can always bail later. I'm not that way. I take relationships VERY seriously. If I see a dealbreaker, I break the deal --- walking away immediately. I take them so seriously I don't try to manipulate them by offering something if the other person complies with my wishes or trying to change their inclinations or the situation that way. And I don't hold on to them tenatively, pulling back, just to see what will happen. Sounds like you're saying I should just break it off with her. First of all: What's there to break off? You are in this state of a relationship without a relationship. Which is what I've said is silly. Second of all: If you don't like her as she is, generally, and these are truly dealbreakers. . . yeah, if they break the deal, you break it off. If they are just annoyances that she wants to improve and you can live with if she doesn't, and you can work together and really INVEST in the relationship BEFORE you see results (that would make them not dealbreakers, but everybody works together in a relationship to make it smooth, if it's a good one), then keep on trucking. I never get into exclusivity quickly. It takes months for me normally. Again, because I don't like to jump in and out of relationships. I make sure everything is right before I commit. I happen to take commitment very seriously, maybe you disagree with my seriousness with the commitments I make, but that's just how I am. You sound very fearful of commitment to me. I take commitment very seriously as well. Slowly and seriously rarely go together in my opinion. In my experience, men who take more than 3 months to get into something often have too much fear to be fully in the relationship. Men who take less than a month have issues as well---of course, it takes some time. But you've had almost 6 months. Either you dig this girl and want to build something with her AS SHE IS or you don't. I'm guessing it's not going to go well because you want to pick and choose what you like about her and because you're not committed to the relationship.
heartshaped Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 For argument's sake, OP, I'll assume that she just has communication issues. Is this really someone you want to be in a relationship with? I have a good friend that is like this. You might call or text her on Wednesday, but not get any response until Friday or Saturday at best. She only keeps in regular contact with her immediate family i.e. her mother and father, anyone else she's pretty sporadic on communication. When people inquire about why she doesn't respond to them right away she always says she was 'busy', but even when she and I are catching lunch or meeting up at the gym or even just shopping, she just doesn't check her phone and if she does she doesn't respond to whoever is calling or texting her. Now this type of behavior doesn't bother me in a friend, but I wouldn't date anyone with this quality. Communication is important to me and it sounds important to you and I can't see being with someone who doesn't feel you are important enough to respond to right away. I agree with you also- I would never become exclusive with someone if they were already displaying behavior I was unhappy with. Why enter into something when you are already experiencing behavior that bothers you? But I will say, my comment still stands. I don't think she's just this interested in you. Here's why; 1. It's been too long on her end. Men generally take a while longer to realize what they want or make up their mind about what they want, but women don't have this problem. Probably because the majority of us base our decisions on emotions and men rely more on facts. If she was interested in being exclusive with you, she would've broached the subject months ago. 2. Not responding right away to your communication is a red flag. Any way you slice it you just aren't important enough to her to garner a quick response. Even if she only responded enough to say I'm busy that would be something. No response at all just shows a lack of caring. 3. Sleeping with you outside of being exclusive. We don't typically do that either, not if we are interested in being in a relationship with you. The exclusive talk, then we sleep with you, or at least, after sleeping with you we bring up talk of being exclusive. 4. Now this one is a killer, when you asked her why she was ignoring you, she said, "Don't be mad, I like you a lot." She didn't even offer up a reason. Telling you not to be mad then following up with reassuring you of her feelings for you is like saying I really don't have a reason for my behavior so I'm just going to try to validate his feelings and avoid the question. If you are committed to seeing this through, I think you should reasonably explain what you want from her, give it a few weeks to see if she puts in any effort, and if she doesn't, move on.
Author fishtaco Posted March 22, 2011 Author Posted March 22, 2011 heartshaped - Thank you for your post. To me, your post actually makes sense, as opposed to just being randomly accusatory. She is like this even with her family. I happen to know her brother in law and her sister for a long time. I believe no one corrected her because she's just family and she thinks it's perfectly fine to drop communication. I've met her at their family parties and interacted with her sporadically for many years. So you can say even though this dating relationship is relatively new, I actually have a good feel of her personality before we even started. Outside of these two issues, everything else is great. Hence it's hard for me to walk away from. Your points are absolutely valid, I've thought about them. But like I mentioned, I've made a judgement call that she is interested. I could be wrong. But I think when we do have the phone call, I'll find out a lot. Then I may see things your way and break it off with her. zengirl - Oh please. Save your aggressive and accusatory posts for someone else. We see each other only once a month. And you want me to get into an exclusive relationship with her just like that? And what's with that dangling the carrot bit? You act as if I'm asking her to wash my car or clean my house. I asked for more quality time together, last time I checked, it benefit both sides (assuming both sides are interested in each other), and makes for a healthy relationship. What is there to break off? Wow. I happen to observe dating etiquette, perhaps that's a foreign concept to you. We may not be official, but I already told her I'm not seeing anyone else, I think she at least deserves a "sorry, this is not working out, I'm going to date other people now". So you're suggesting I just go off on my merry way and start multidating without saying anything to her? That is messed up. I am doing something about my situation. I'm going to talk to her on the phone, attempt to figure out more information. I am nearing the end of my patience. I believe she should have a say in this, at least a chance to convince me to keep going, if that's what she wants, or tell me to leave her, if that's what she wants. This decision will be a big one, so I want as much information as possible. This is called "taking something seriously". Maybe you think that's "lame" too. I'm surprised all this is coming from someone that claims to take commitment seriously. Emilia - I can't. I know myself. I cannot be in a relationship where I see my girlfriend once a month. So after a year of dating, we would only see each other 12 times? I can't do that. Plus it's not like she's that far away. She lives 60 miles away, while far, it's not once a month far. But I also feel a ton of chemistry with her, so it's hard to just throw that away. Hence I'm stuck in this situation. I either get into an unhappy relationship as is, or I throw away this connection we have. Both are undesirable outcomes. I don't think my "demands" are as unreasonable as zengirl thinks. I want to see her every weekend, and we can switch off every other weekend where she comes down to me for one weekend, and I go up to her for the next. I think that's pretty reasonable even when we're just dating and not official. It's not unusual to go on a date once a week. But, I'm not even getting that right now. iron_m - multidating keeps you busy. So if a woman drops the ball (not available...etc), you go on a date with someone else. She's been like this since day one, as I mentioned, even with her own family. Before, it didn't bother me, because we were casual. If things get out of hand I'll just drop her. But now I'm taking her seriously, so I'm in "problem solving" mode as opposed to "problem avoidance mode". And yes, she knows everything on my side. I told her I've stopped dating other women. She was happy to hear that. But other than the fact that she DID increase communication with me (but she still randomly drops off for days at a time), the time issue is still there. That's the only thing that changed so far after I told her I'm serious. I don't understand why is it do bad to lay everything out on the table? I'm saying to her exactly like I'm posting right now. I like her a lot, everything is great, except these two issues. If we can work through these two issues, we'll be official. So how would you handle this situation? Not communicating this to her I'd think would be worse, because then she wouldn't know what's going on. I'd be dating her and then one day, surprise! I break it off with her.
heartshaped Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I think you should lay everything out on the table, what exactly that you need in the relationship for things to work, and then, give her a bit of time to put an effort in. I don't think you'll see some overnight change, but even a little bit of effort on her side should be enough I think to justify giving things a bit more time. I still wouldn't become exclusive though until the issue was well on the way to being resolved. The friend I mentioned, she and I have been friends since we were children, and she's always been this way. Even with her boyfriends. I can't even really call it flaky because she's there when you need her and when she says she'll be, but getting responses to communication takes days and with the men she dates she doesn't see them nearly as often as most people see their partners. Again, always using the 'busy' excuse. We caught lunch and a movie a week or two ago and I asked her about the new man she's seeing and she told me she had been too busy to see him. Yet, we were catching lunch and a movie..and I know for a fact that she wasn't really that 'busy'. I have never been able to put a name to this behavior or even understand the reasoning behind it. Perhaps if someone would call the person on this type of behavior they would be willing to modify it, but I'm not completely sure. I know one thing though no matter what the issue is when dating someone, you should always tell them the problem, wait on a solution from their end, and then, do what you feel is necessary.
zengirl Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 zengirl - Oh please. Save your aggressive and accusatory posts for someone else. It's aggressive because I disagree with what you're doing? You're clearly unhappy which means you disagree with the situation as well. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. We see each other only once a month. And you want me to get into an exclusive relationship with her just like that? You're the one who WANTS to be in an exclusive relationship with her. I couldn't care less. My point is---do it or don't do it, but don't wait for some perfect time, perfect sign, perfect action on her part. If you see each other only once a month and have been dragging that on since October, I'd say this is going nowhere. Unless there's some sort of LDR issue and you're both willing to put in a lot of work. And what's with that dangling the carrot bit? You act as if I'm asking her to wash my car or clean my house. I asked for more quality time together, last time I checked, it benefit both sides (assuming both sides are interested in each other), and makes for a healthy relationship. I have no disagreement with what you asked for. I think asking for it as a condition is the wrong way to go about starting a relationship. If you are asking for more quality time and not getting it, it's fine not to get into a relationship. I disagree with your TELLING her "I'd ask you to be my GF if you did this." Do you not see the distinction? What is there to break off? Wow. I happen to observe dating etiquette, perhaps that's a foreign concept to you. We may not be official, but I already told her I'm not seeing anyone else, I think she at least deserves a "sorry, this is not working out, I'm going to date other people now". Oh, of course. To me, that is not breaking something off if there was no commitment in the first place. I also don't do the exclusivity without commitment thing (to me all of that happens at once) so clearly I do date very differently from you. To me, it's a bit chicken when people try to do that whole "We're exclusive but not in a relationship" thing unless it's clearly casual sex done safely/exclusively and no relationship will ever develop (which still wouldn't be my thing, but which I do think is different). So you're suggesting I just go off on my merry way and start multidating without saying anything to her? That is messed up. No, I'm saying you're not really in this. You've got one foot in it and one foot out. And nothing will ever come of it that way. Maybe nothing would come of it if you were in it either, but I don't know. I am doing something about my situation. I'm going to talk to her on the phone, attempt to figure out more information. I am nearing the end of my patience. I believe she should have a say in this, at least a chance to convince me to keep going, if that's what she wants, or tell me to leave her, if that's what she wants. This decision will be a big one, so I want as much information as possible. This is called "taking something seriously". Maybe you think that's "lame" too. I'm surprised all this is coming from someone that claims to take commitment seriously. I am all for taking things seriously, but to me taking things seriously means being 100% in or 100% out. I don't do things halfway.
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