Trimmer Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 We talked. She told me she had sex with me right away because of many past relationships with men who would leave unless she gave them sex. Now she likes me and wants things to work out. Somehow that translates into not having sex. Yeah, that "somehow it translates" is a little mystifying, I agree. Her "values and morals" were not important enough in the early stages to keep her from having lots of sex to accomplish a goal - to get you hooked into the relationship - but now that you are further along in the relationship, with true feelings of commitment and intimacy, that's when these feelings of guilt and concerns over morality kick in? Isn't it usually at the point where a healthy couple develops mutual feelings of intimacy and commitment that sex does become integrated into the relationship as a natural extension of their feelings? Not discarded... Something is all twisted around here. For the record we have had sex a few times since the OP. But it's always and only when she wants it. If she can resist I simply get turned down. If she can't resist then she makes me have sex. Go figure. If there is any guilt that she is dealing with (and there may well be) then I think she is successfully projecting it on you. Here's how she does it: she has "announced" that she thinks you guys shouldn't have sex, and usually she "resists." But in the heat of the moment, when she breaks down, she probably transfers much of that guilt onto you - I bet she thinks you should share in the responsibility for her chastity, so she probably thinks of it as "you gave in" and that lessens her guilt somewhat. I do have to question the strength of her "morals and values" if she could get over them easily enough to have a months-long sexual relationship with you, and then when she decides it serves her purposes, turns around and changes direction. "Morals and values" are the beliefs that you apply all the time, the beliefs that define who you are. Not tools in a kit that you ignore until you need to whip them out to work on a situation that needs adjustment... It's starting to wear on me to be honest. I think it's a dirty little trick that she pulled. Now she's even mentioning how if we are ever married she'll do me every day. Wow. And isn't that really pretty much a similar ultimatum as a partner saying: have sex with me or we'll break up?
Enchanted Girl Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 First of all, you guys need to stop thinking of women as manipulative bitches and assuming that everything they do is related to a need to manipulate. Just because you don't understand why she's doing what she's doing, doesn't mean she's doing it to purposefully be malicious. She might be. I mean, there's some horrible, bitchy women out there, but don't jump to conclusions. Remember, women are different than men. Sometimes we don't get why you do things either, but that doesn't mean we should automatically assume its because you're being an *******. I think she sounds extremely mixed up about sex is all. I don't think her intentions sounds malicious. I think she's trying to be a romantic and have a pure and beautiful relationship with you because all her relationships in the past ended poorly. And she gave them crazy, wild sex. So she believes that the sex is making them impure. Maybe if you show her in some way that sex is about LOVE and that you have sex with her BECAUSE you love her and not just to be crazy and lustful, then maybe she won't feel as badly about it. She needs to stop associating sex with impure relationships and start seeing it as a romantic thing that helps you bond. And you're definitely not communicating with her or she'd understand how close you are to breaking up with her. Your relationship is going in a bad direction though and it seems like its going to end.
Author youngskywalker Posted April 7, 2011 Author Posted April 7, 2011 I think she's trying to be a romantic and have a pure and beautiful relationship with you because all her relationships in the past ended poorly. And she gave them crazy, wild sex. So she believes that the sex is making them impure. Maybe if you show her in some way that sex is about LOVE and that you have sex with her BECAUSE you love her and not just to be crazy and lustful, then maybe she won't feel as badly about it. She needs to stop associating sex with impure relationships and start seeing it as a romantic thing that helps you bond. Interesting you say that. Last time we talked about it she said "sorry I've been treated so badly by men in the past".
Trimmer Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 First of all, you guys need to stop thinking of women as manipulative bitches and assuming that everything they do is related to a need to manipulate. Just because you don't understand why she's doing what she's doing, doesn't mean she's doing it to purposefully be malicious. She might be. I mean, there's some horrible, bitchy women out there, but don't jump to conclusions. Remember, women are different than men. Sometimes we don't get why you do things either, but that doesn't mean we should automatically assume its because you're being an *******. If any of that was directed at my last post, I'll point out that my advice would be the same if genders were reversed, and that I didn't make any statements or implications that "women were manipulative bitches." Everything I suggested was based on this situation (not on the generalizations you are working with here...) and contrary to any idea that she may be doing this out of intentional malice, I do feel that much of what is driving her may be real, confused feelings around the mixture guilt, sex, religion, relationships, etc. The rest of your post, I think, has some good insights and suggestions.
Enchanted Girl Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 If any of that was directed at my last post, I'll point out that my advice would be the same if genders were reversed, and that I didn't make any statements or implications that "women were manipulative bitches." Everything I suggested was based on this situation (not on the generalizations you are working with here...) and contrary to any idea that she may be doing this out of intentional malice, I do feel that much of what is driving her may be real, confused feelings around the mixture guilt, sex, religion, relationships, etc. The rest of your post, I think, has some good insights and suggestions. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just an overall sense I was getting from a lot of the posts. Women and men confused each other, I just wanted to establish that it wasn't necessarily maliciously.
Author youngskywalker Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 Your relationship is going in a bad direction though and it seems like its going to end. I hope it doesn't end. I'm really trying my best and I believe I AM communicating with her. We've talked about it and she knows how I feel. But really, what am I supposed to do? Tell her she has to have sex with me or we break up? I'd never do that because then any chance of a relationship is over. Even if we do agree on having sex, in the back of my mind I'd think she's doing it only because she has to. It's an empty feeling to believe someone is having sex with you and not really enjoying it. I'd rather go hump the couch. So it's over on my end. I think it's called checkmate. To be honest it's really hard for me to bond and have romantic feelings for her absent of any sexuality. Understand, I get nothing. Not even a little touching and playing around. Just kisses because "that could lead to more". duh. I'm sorry but to me it's just turning into a platonic friendship. I'm sorry to the world that sex has an effect of bonding and affection to me and without it, you are just another one of my cherished friends who is of the opposite sex. Not my romantic lover.
daphne Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I met a guy online who went through the same thing as you. They ultimately broke up, even though they were once engaged. His girl was very religious. In your situation, I do think she sounds manipulative. It's a two way street and waiting until you're involved this far is a pretty dirty trick, imo. And it sounds like if she's suggesting she'll give it to you daily if you're married is a carrot to dangle so that you get there. I don't think there's a need for ultimatums, but I personally doubt I would want to continue a relationship where I received a bait and switch. Would you have entered the relationship as it is now?
Author youngskywalker Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 I met a guy online who went through the same thing as you. They ultimately broke up, even though they were once engaged. His girl was very religious. In your situation, I do think she sounds manipulative. It's a two way street and waiting until you're involved this far is a pretty dirty trick, imo. And it sounds like if she's suggesting she'll give it to you daily if you're married is a carrot to dangle so that you get there. I don't think there's a need for ultimatums, but I personally doubt I would want to continue a relationship where I received a bait and switch. Would you have entered the relationship as it is now? Hey Daphne, it's been awhile. I totally feel like I received the bait and switch. Because of that, it seems like there are some trust issues rising up within me. Her reason is stupid that she changed her mind on sex because she loves me so much and wants it to work. When in reality she's coming close to blowing this whole thing up. But do you see my point that my hands are tied? If I convince her to continue to have a sexual relationship she's just going to resent me or do it simply to keep me. Either way, that's not what I want. I wanted it to be a freely loving relationship. So would I have entered the relationship as it is now? Let me answer it this way. If she would have been upfront with me in the beginning about her standards on sex I still would have dated her and given it a shot anyway. It would have been MUCH easier to deal with. Heck, it most likely would have driven me crazy, wanting her more than anything in the world. But for her to screw me like a bunny for 2 months and then stop is just insensitive IMO.
daphne Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Hey Sky, At least you've been getting lucky on a regular basis until now. That's more than I can say for one of us. I can't say that I disagree with anything you're saying. You're right about your hands being tied. Personally, I think it's unreasonable of her to change the rules in the middle of the game this way. And it's illogical to think it'll bring you closer together. I think she possibly thinks it'll bring you closer to wanting to marry her if she holds that as collateral over you. That's not promising for how she would behave further down the line if you actually did marry her.
TokyoG33kyGal Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 i have heard similar stories like this and mostly the the girl is in conflict with herself. it is a mix of religious guilt, feeling that she is behaving "slutty" and the person will see her less for it, being burned in the past by men who only used her for sex. it is subconscious testing at some level and also self-sabotaging in a way. she is testing (maybe subconsciously) if you will be able to resist the temptation. if you leave because of the lack of sex, she can confirm and say to herself that all guys only want her for sex. i do not think you should keep on pushing if she already provided you with her reasons as to why she wants to abstain from it. since you said you would have given it a shot anyway (if she had told you she did not want it from the get go), then why can't you give it a shot now? i can understand if you are pissed off at her withholding sex and not providing you any reasons but she did let you know where she's coming from. the ball is in your court. if she invites you to sleep over or starts off to dry hump you anytime she likes, how about telling her that you would rather not give a room for temptation and you would feel comfortable if she is ready to take the relationship (again) to that level.
Trimmer Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just an overall sense I was getting from a lot of the posts. Women and men confused each other, I just wanted to establish that it wasn't necessarily maliciously. Yeah, I tend to think it's likely a bunch of unresolved internal confusion, or as TGG puts it very simply: i have heard similar stories like this and mostly the the girl is in conflict with herself. _______________________________________________ At least you've been getting lucky on a regular basis until now. That's more than I can say for one of us. Heh heh... made me laugh. You're good at finding the silver lining!
Author youngskywalker Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 it is a mix of religious guilt, feeling that she is behaving "slutty" and the person will see her less for it, being burned in the past by men who only used her for sex. it is subconscious testing at some level and also self-sabotaging in a way. she is testing (maybe subconsciously) if you will be able to resist the temptation. if you leave because of the lack of sex, she can confirm and say to herself that all guys only want her for sex. If those things are true then why did she have sex with me so much in the beginning?
Author youngskywalker Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 Hey Sky, At least you've been getting lucky on a regular basis until now. That's more than I can say for one of us. I can't say that I disagree with anything you're saying. You're right about your hands being tied. Personally, I think it's unreasonable of her to change the rules in the middle of the game this way. And it's illogical to think it'll bring you closer together. I think she possibly thinks it'll bring you closer to wanting to marry her if she holds that as collateral over you. That's not promising for how she would behave further down the line if you actually did marry her. Well it sure isn't bringing us closer together. I'm feeling detached from the whole relationship at this point. She was over to spend the night last night. Same thing and she ended up sleeping on the couch. This morning she told me she loved me but loves her 'values' even more. I said it didn't seem like you loved your values so much the first couple months we were together. She just said sorry and it was time for her to go. I'm contemplating spending some time apart from her. Maybe that will give us a fresh start instead of grinding away with the same issue. Right now I'm not feeling this relationship.
Recommended Posts