thatdog Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 I think one of the biggest reasons for high divorce rates is a combination of the ease with which they are now attainable as well as the importance placed on romance and being 'in love' by media and society these days. Whilst this might be a problem with both sexes, as a guy looking for a LTR I have only had a lot of experience with women being too caught up in falling in love. My last two LTRs were both ended by the girl as she felt we had lost our 'spark' and wasn't happy being in a relationship without it. I also went through a period where I dated 3 girls in a row who all turned out to be either married or engaged. One of them ended it before things got physical out of guilt (and told me at that time), the other two both just told me something along the lines of 'it's ok, I'm not in love with him anymore. I love him but I'm IN LOVE with you.' It seems society has become a lot more accepting of both infidelity and addiction to romantic love. Can anyone else chime in on whether this is the case with most men as well? or have i got things wrong?
MarlyStar Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 The divorce rate is skyrocketing... Actually, the divorce rate is not 'skyrocketing'. It's leveled off or decreasing depending on the stat you are looking at. But the 2010 census data show it's dropped and has been edging down for a long time (not just because of the Great Recession). .... the majority of people in marriages and relationships are miserable... Again, where are you getting this from? In fact, studies show that most people are contented in their marriages. Most married people I know are happy and do not want a divorce. Married people have higher levels of stability and emotional and physical health, are wealthier and live longer. Marriage benefits white males more than any other group. Are there unhappy marriages? Sure are. There's cheating, abuse, addiction, and incompatibility. There are kid issues, money issues, inlaw issues, household chore issues. But... for the most part marriage works and even people who have been in a bad marriage or two want to try again, and usually unless they are ****ed up themselves, manage to get it right. I'm in my forties and most of the marriages of my family and peers are happy. Would people change this or that if they could? Yep, but most are happy, not 'miserable'. The world is full of angry bitter misfits. It's best not to pay attention to them, if they had any wisdom, they'd be making their lives work better than they do.
quankanne Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 hate to tell you, marriage is never 100 percent happiness ... if that were the case, one of us would be a wax figure and the other one completely delusional. There are real people involved, with complex emotions and thoughts and needs, so there's always room for some kind of discontentedness or unhappiness. The secret of a healthy marriage is to not focus on the negative (and wallow in the problem) but look for ways to remedy those problems and be a part of the solution. Sometimes it's not easy ... but it can be done. other thought is that you find what you look for. When I got my first Bug several years ago, it was this really cool shade of green. Those first six months of ownership I notice that color everywhere, and it seemed like everyone drove a VW Beetle. It wasn't actually that way, it was just my perception because I was so fascinated with my car. Same thing with bad relationships – you'll see them more because deep down, you're looking for them. mind you, you're not going to see true romance in the public area because we're not being conditioned to behave that way. Instead, we've adopted a mindset that says exposing out bodies for attention and hooking up/hanging out is the ideal, so romance falls by the wayside. so, sometimes you've just got to be what you're looking for. My husband is one of those guys who will hold hands in public even though you wouldn't think it to look at him, and sometimes, yeah, he'll give out smooches in the store. And I think it's fantastic that he's confident enough to do that ...
Nexus One Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 According to a 40-year long study from the Kinsey institute only 10% of couples stay in love with each other to the day they get separated by death. So only 10% of people get to experience the ideal where they experience a crush/infatuation and love from the start of their relationship to their death. That means 90% doesn't. Those are confronting numbers. I just accept those numbers and try to focus on becoming part of that 10%.
threebyfate Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 I'm not picking up the crack pipe again. I just look around me at the way men and women treat each other and it is downright depressing.Look at the way men treat other men or women treat other women. As a species, we're THE most predatory since we hurt and harm for pleasure, instead of biological need/instinct to survive. And yet, as a species, we can also make the most positive difference. But for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Take something as simple as hygiene, for example doing the laundry or washing the dishes. These are considered "good things" in order to reduce harmful bacteria. But, so many detergents contain phosphates which harm the environment. So why haven't we completely phased out phosphates? It's too easy to focus on the negatives, forgetting all the positives. As a species, none of us are perfect. You'll be one of the first ones to state he's not perfect. Knowing this, why do you look for perfection in others? This is a question we all have to answer to ourselves.
Author Woggle Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 I apologize if I sound negative but reading that article and witnessing two women just trashing men in front of the women's son who looked about 12 or 13 years old really got to me. They calling men nothing but sperm donors and saying we are useless while he just had his head down. Does his mother have any idea what this is doing to him?
quankanne Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 According to a 40-year long study from the Kinsey institute only 10% of couples stay in love with each other to the day they get separated by death. So only 10% of people get to experience the ideal where they experience a crush/infatuation and love from the start of their relationship to their death. That means 90% doesn't. Those are confronting numbers. I'd say of the 90 percent, about 10 percent are truly, desperately unhappy but hang in there because they're afraid of change. The rest of us 80 percenters live out the realities of relationships and all they entail. Some days are good, some not so good, others are abysmal while more are stellar. It's a mixed bag ...
quankanne Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 witnessing two women just trashing men in front of the women's son who looked about 12 or 13 years old really got to me. They calling men nothing but sperm donors and saying we are useless while he just had his head down. Does his mother have any idea what this is doing to him? obviously Mom and her friend have no finesse ... and don't realize that they're just adding to the cycle when they do this. just count them among the world's dumbasses. Having an opinion is fine ... learning how and when to express it is another thing! do you ever interact with the neighbor kid, Wogs? Maybe you can be the role model he needs in his life by showing him that not all men are dumbasses or sperm donors, but are good, kind, decent folks who know how to treat others with respect and dignity. It only takes one person to spark that revolution. Oh yeah ... and show up idiots like his mother for the dumbass that she is!
Author Woggle Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 It was not in the neighborhood. It was while waiting in a restaurant for takeout to be done. I wonder if she thinks her son will grow up to be a useless sperm donor.
Nikki Sahagin Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 I don't think it is okay to treat anybody like that but what happens too often these days is that some women think they have the right to verbally and physically abuse a man and if he fights back then he is considered the abuser. I agree that nobody should treat anybody like that but it goes both ways. I talk to so many people who have been scarred by the gender war and I wonder what can be done to heal the wounds because it is hurting a lot of people. Yes most certainly it cuts both ways. I suspect I focus more on mens faults as a woman and you focus on women's more as a man. If we switched genders, we would probably switch teams to blame as well! Have you ever thought of becoming a counselor for people who suffer with this problem?
Author Woggle Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 Yes most certainly it cuts both ways. I suspect I focus more on mens faults as a woman and you focus on women's more as a man. If we switched genders, we would probably switch teams to blame as well! Have you ever thought of becoming a counselor for people who suffer with this problem? I don't know if one messed up person should be counseling other messed up people. Despite the occasional bout I have made a whole lot of progress compared to how I was a few years ago. After my divorce I was so bitter towards women that I couldn't fathom actually trusting one enough to marry them and stayed married for five years. I also see that the gender war goes both ways and in the end nobody wins. The woman I mentioned might turn her son bitter against women who will then mistreat one who will become bitter towards men and the cycle just continues. Hatred has a ripple effect like that and I no longer want to be a part of it. Sometimes it is easier said than done but I am trying.
sumdude Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Well, this is the point, I don't think it's unnatural at all. In fact, I think the situation in 2011 is more natural than it was 50 or 60 years ago. I mean, really, what is marriage anyway? It's a legally binding contract that two people enter into with the state to do certain things and divide their joint assets a certain way if it doesn't work out. If that way of living is "natural", why do we need to sign a contract? This exactly the attitude I keep running into. My ex wife said the only reason to get married was for children. My ex GF said almost exactly what you posted. Both come from divorced families and assume that's what's 'normal'. Not saying that it's wrong per se but it's just one way of looking at it. So I know my ex wife found it relatively easy to give up early in our marriage. Marriage is partially a contract, it's also a promise and a commitment. You're saying to each other and the important people in each others lives that we're in it for the long haul. That's why weddings are a big deal, but in the way they often go down which is about image. But the fact that you both are showing your community that you're a unit committed to staying that way. If making that kind of commitment isn't for you than that's ok. But don't disparage the idea wholesale. When it works it really is an amazing thing. According to a 40-year long study from the Kinsey institute only 10% of couples stay in love with each other to the day they get separated by death. So only 10% of people get to experience the ideal where they experience a crush/infatuation and love from the start of their relationship to their death. That means 90% doesn't. Those are confronting numbers. I just accept those numbers and try to focus on becoming part of that 10%. If you ask a couple that's stayed together you"ll often find that they've fallen in and out of love many times during the relationship.
Author Woggle Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 I go back and forth on marriage despite being married myself. Sometimes I think it is great and other times I think it is pointless and that most married women deep down wish they were single. When I see a man gushing over his wife I can't help thinking that his wife secretly resents him even though I am probably wrong.
alphamale Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 It is clear that today gender relations are not good. The divorce rate is skyrocketing and the majority of people in marriages and relationships are miserable. Romance is pretty much dead in our society and men and women become more bitter towards each other everyday. Men blame women for the current state of affairs and women blame men and neither side seems willing to budge. Men call women all types of names and women let us know everyday how unneeded and obsolete we are. I just got done reading the comments on an article and I think it is pretty much hopeless. Are things really as bad as they seem and if so what if anything can be done to heal this rift? men and women do like (and need) each other at least in places outside the US
Movingthrough Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 One is that its so easy to get a divorce and there's very little stigma attached to it any more, so I think some cases of divorce wouldn't have happened a few decades ago. We are a "grass is greener" society, and people jump to the next great thing when their current situation gets tough. (I'm not saying this is true of all divorces or anything, just some). This is very true above. I'm not saying its right or wrong, I'm under 30 but over 25 and this is VERY popular in my age group now. Jump into something real fast, go straight to the L word and honeymoon phase, then the minute it stops they think there is a problem and cya later. I'm not bashing anyone but the GIGS is the biggest issue nowadays, combined with the fact that your not considered weird to jump from relationship to relationship. The point of that is supposed to be to find the right one for you, problem is nowadays we just go from one to the other looking for something that we will probably never find, its like an addiction. In my social circle right now off the top of my head, i can think of at least three people (younger 25-30) that did the young marriage, kid, thousands of pictures, showing the world their "love", then it failed, and now they are right back at it. Obviously this is a personal thing and not fact, but it is very popular to go from honeymoon to honeymoon over and over. There is no real sense of honor in that i told this person i loved them and wanted to be with them. I have two friends (not of the same group above) going through breakups right now. Their partners were both the first to say "i love you" and "i want a life with you". So my friends took it more serious, and within weeks their partners were gone and onto someone else. If you read in the breakup section, most posts are like "He/She told me they loved me on a Tuesday and wanted to start a life. Then on Wed. they were gone." For some reason we want our cake and to eat it too. Personally i think its immaturity, and how some were raised, or its the fact that we all have so many "demons" nowadays and we don't deal with them. It makes me sick to think people can say they love someone, then leave right after, that is supposed to be a word that means something. Overall i don't think much has changed in time when it comes to dating, just no one is afraid to do whatever they want, even if it hurts another.
Darren Taylor Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I wouldn't go as far as to say that men and women don't like each other. But I do think there is some confusion as to what roles each gender has and how to go about them. Nowadays, you have women acting like men and men acting like women. Men aren't sure if they're supposed to pursue women anymore and women aren't sure if they should focus on their careers or families. I don't see the two genders disliking each other, at least not here in southern California. Confusion on the other hand, most certainly.
MarlyStar Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I just want to say, I'm a woman, and I like men very much.
fishtaco Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I just want to say, I'm a man, and I like women very much, when they make me sandwiches, while naked.
NoNonsense Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 It is clear that today gender relations are not good. The divorce rate is skyrocketing and the majority of people in marriages and relationships are miserable. Romance is pretty much dead in our society Actually, it's not, and that's part of the problem in a way. Romance, or rather the expectations of romance as amplified by 'relationship porn' like romantic comedies, novels, and TV shows, is stronger than ever, and has been incorporated into expectations in a way that almost guarantees disappointment, and from disappointment often flows resentment. Men blame women for the current state of affairs and women blame men and neither side seems willing to budge. Our current society is prediated on 'autonomy ideology', and that gets into personal relationships. Encouraged by the porn/romance and advertising industries, both men and women are saying, "I expect 'x', 'y', and 'z', and I won't settle for less!" The trouble is that the other sex has no intention of supplying x, y, or z, and often resent the expectation. When expectations are as far out of synch with reality as they are right now, disappointment and resentment follow naturally.
NoNonsense Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I blame our schools. They spend so many months teaching us how our sex organs work and not even a minute teaching the really important difference: How the masculine and feminine brains work. Men grow up thinking women want the same things out of a relationship as them and vice-versa. When they collide with the harsh and cold reality, they just assume the worst of the opposite gender. Not just the schools. The advertising industry, the porn/romance industry, various political and ideological movements, all of them have a vested interest in peddling a particular set of expectations, and denying other realities. It's a constant barrage, and it doesn't equip young people for the disappointments are are part and parcel of real life. This is true of other things besides male/female relationships, of course, but it's particularly acute there. When you've not been raised or taught to accept that the other sex isn't quite what you wish they were, by nature, the reality tends to generate resentment when it's encountered. We don't tell young people: "Your various desires will never be entirely fulfilled in real life, and those that are, to the degree they are, will cost you something." That's the truth, but nobody ever sold a movie ticket or a product with it, and porn and romance fiction that was based on that would not sell well. Instead the message is: "You're entitled, you deserve it, and go out there and you'll find it!" Which is a lie, but sells very well. Edited May 9, 2011 by NoNonsense
salty goodness Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I just want to say, I'm a man, and I like women very much, when they make me sandwiches, while naked. I'm a woman and I like men too especially when they're naked and making me pasta.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 The truth is that everything comes at a price. If you don't earn something, you aren't entitled to it. That's how the world works. Shame that people don't realize this.
stace79 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 It is clear that today gender relations are not good. The divorce rate is skyrocketing and the majority of people in marriages and relationships are miserable. Romance is pretty much dead in our society and men and women become more bitter towards each other everyday. Men blame women for the current state of affairs and women blame men and neither side seems willing to budge. Men call women all types of names and women let us know everyday how unneeded and obsolete we are. I just got done reading the comments on an article and I think it is pretty much hopeless. Are things really as bad as they seem and if so what if anything can be done to heal this rift? My personal opinion is that everyone is too damned selfish. Nobody wants to work hard at a relationship, and nobody wants to make sacrifices. And honestly, I think the fact that so few people adhere to old-school morals and beliefs is also a problem. I don't dislike men in general. I dislike how most men treat me and other women. I also dislike how a lot of women treat their husbands or boyfriends. There are too many liars, cheaters, abusers, golddiggers, etc. on both sides.
Flgirl44 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 People are generally more selfish nowadays and obsessed with being happy. I think back in the day a family was viewed more as a functional unit with a purpose and currently it's viewed as more of a leisure, happiness , comfort type of thing.
stace79 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 People are generally more selfish nowadays and obsessed with being happy. I think back in the day a family was viewed more as a functional unit with a purpose and currently it's viewed as more of a leisure, happiness , comfort type of thing. And nobody wants to WORK to be happy. Like, okay I need this from my boyfriend or husband, and so I'm willing to give him that to fulfill one of his needs. It's all constant efforts and sacrificing the self in deference to the team, or the relationship.
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