irc333 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Yeah, there was this one 25 year old man that dated a 38 year old single mom of 2 daughters (FULL custody), I was wondering why he did....probably because she was hot. (he was quite a strapping muscluar young fellow) He was a recent college grad and I couldn't figure out with all the non-single moms (his age) on campus, he had the pick of the crowd...but he decided on a relationship with a single mother. After about a year....it was called off, she stated, "We were at diff. stages in our lives" I was thinking, no kidding?! lol Personally, I think he thought it was cool dating a hot older woman, but of course, chances are I'm guessing he even knew it would be a finite amount of time they'd be together.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I am not saying this applies to you but men wonder why you are a single mother. How you handled your last relationship will give clues as to handle your current ones. If a woman threw away a good man and tore apart a family over stupid reasons it shows that she might value commitment and if she deliberately had a child without a father it shows that she might be a misandrist who is out to show the world she does not need a man. It comes with a whole lot of baggage that some men just don't want to deal with. Men want to minimize the drama level when dealing with women. I am sorry if this offends you but it is really how many men think.
Author makelemonade1974 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 I am not saying this applies to you but men wonder why you are a single mother. How you handled your last relationship will give clues as to handle your current ones. If a woman threw away a good man and tore apart a family over stupid reasons it shows that she might value commitment and if she deliberately had a child without a father it shows that she might be a misandrist who is out to show the world she does not need a man. It comes with a whole lot of baggage that some men just don't want to deal with. Men want to minimize the drama level when dealing with women. I am sorry if this offends you but it is really how many men think. Wowza. I think I'm going to have to become a lesbian.
irc333 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 So I'm guessing the above quoted by Woogle IS the case? Wowza. I think I'm going to have to become a lesbian.
Emilia Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I'd never date a man that has kids and that's because I don't want to get involved in other people's mess. he would have children that were brought up a certain way, probably quite differently from the way I would have, and he is more than likely to have an ex wife plus every guy with kids says he wants to put them first (completely natural) so why get involved in something complicated and potentially hard work when there are plenty of childless people out there?
Emilia Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I am not saying this applies to you but men wonder why you are a single mother. How you handled your last relationship will give clues as to handle your current ones. If a woman threw away a good man and tore apart a family over stupid reasons it shows that she might value commitment and if she deliberately had a child without a father it shows that she might be a misandrist who is out to show the world she does not need a man. It comes with a whole lot of baggage that some men just don't want to deal with. Men want to minimize the drama level when dealing with women. I am sorry if this offends you but it is really how many men think. well I think most men have the brain power to work out that a lot of the time it's the bloke that throws in the towel
Woggle Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 well I think most men have the brain power to work out that a lot of the time it's the bloke that throws in the towel Of course it is more complex than that but men tend to go with the low drama option.
Nexus One Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I am not saying this applies to you but men wonder why you are a single mother. How you handled your last relationship will give clues as to handle your current ones. If a woman threw away a good man and tore apart a family over stupid reasons it shows that she might value commitment and if she deliberately had a child without a father it shows that she might be a misandrist who is out to show the world she does not need a man. It comes with a whole lot of baggage that some men just don't want to deal with. Men want to minimize the drama level when dealing with women. I am sorry if this offends you but it is really how many men think. This is true. I have a recent real life example of this. I'm not sure if I should post this here though, because it feels a bit dirty throwing this online about a former colleague. A few months ago I got a new female colleague. She was attractive and older than me. I'm 29 and she was somewhere in her mid 30's or so. She has a child. Anyways. We were set up to work with each other and at the office she got the desk that faced me. I picked up flirtatious vibes from her towards me. I reciprocated nothing, because in the back of my mind I knew she had a child and that meant she was probably in a relationship. She was attractive, but I kept my cool. I heard she was also a personal assistant and friend to a female celebrity and they hung out often. It turned out that the CEO of our company was in the process of making a business deal with that female celebrity and that was how he hired my new colleague, because he met her via that celebrity. At some point though she let it "slip" that she was in the process of a divorce. As she told she had an appointment with her lawyer to sign the divorce papers. The fact that she was getting a divorce heightened my cautiousness. Turned out she got the job by sleeping with our CEO. I didn't know that, but some people in the office seemed to be aware of this and were giving her the cold shoulder, about which she vented to me. And I'm not sure about this, but it's very well possible that she was getting a divorce due to her sleeping with our CEO. Two months later the shareholders and investors of the company fired her and the CEO. After that, apparently she sent a high invoice for some work she did. I heard the CFO talking from his office on the phone with her, after which he slammed the horn on the phone and yelled: "That f*cking whore!". It's quite possible that my being cautious with women that have children and are divorced is not a good thing to do, but perhaps in this case it was good that I was cautious. I don't think I'm the only guy who is cautious with women who already have children and are divorced. Basically most guys will want to know what went wrong, so that they can rule out any possible drama in the future. Don't get me wrong though, I don't dislike my (former) female colleague. She was nice to me throughout the months we worked together and I remained friendly at all times. I was however cautious. Edited March 18, 2011 by Nexus One
Author makelemonade1974 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Great story Nexus, thanks for sharing. Drama Mama. Love it. I don't think kids = drama. I don't understand the connection. Hmmm. The limited dating pool is irritating though - I need me a luvah.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Kids are not drama but men want to avoid the drama that caused the father not to be in the picture.
Nexus One Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think kids = drama. I don't understand the connection. Don't get me wrong, personally I don't think a single mother + kids = drama. It's more the thought of what went wrong that heightens the cautiousness. I understand that in a marriage in most cases it's the man that pulled the stupid sh*t that causes a divorce. But there's still a chance that the woman was at the root of the divorce and THAT possibility is what men wonder about, because most guys do not want to be at the receiving end of such drama. It's also possible like many other forum members suggested that a guy wants to become first time parents with a woman. Another reason could be that some guys DO see children as unwanted baggage. They perhaps want the woman, but not the children. Some guys might not even want children for their entire lives.
Intricategirl Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Don't get me wrong, personally I don't think a single mother + kids = drama. It's more the thought of what went wrong that heightens the cautiousness. I understand that in a marriage in most cases it's the man that pulled the stupid sh*t that causes a divorce. But there's still a chance that the woman was at the root of the divorce and THAT possibility is what men wonder about, because most guys do not want to be at the receiving end of such drama. I understand this too. But I have to admit I'm a little bothered when guys don't even ask. Want to know if I was married when I had those kids? Whether they have the same father? What the story of the split was? ASK. But it simultaneously is a good thing and an irritating thing when they don't bother to ask and figure out whether there's a compatibility. It's also possible like many other forum members suggested that a guy wants to become first time parents with a woman. I understand this too. I don't even try and counter this with logic, because if that's important to him, there is no sufficient argument. Another reason could be that some guys DO see children as unwanted baggage. They perhaps want the woman, but not the children. Some guys might not even want children for their entire lives. Again, I understand this. My problem is that I've dated guys who claim they love kids, and THEN decide they don't. These same guys HAVE kids of their own, which is apparently not a problem, but mine are. And yeah, that cheeses me off. As for the original question- read "The Lucifer Principle" by Howard Bloom. It has a whole section on how chimps deal with this. It's not pretty. And we like to think we're very evolved, but a lot of the time, I wonder if we're just monkeys that figured out speech.
EasyHeart Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Wowza. I think I'm going to have to become a lesbian.Damn! We've lost another one. . . .
Author makelemonade1974 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Have you guys ever BEEN married? It's a lot of work and not something I'm sure I would want to do again. What's the percentage of marriages that end in divorce? Do people really think that divorced women are bad in relationships? I just don't see the objectivity here. Very strange. Sorry Easy Heart. I just can't take it anymore.
Imajerk17 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 It's not that we are passing judgment on your past, it's just that dating you is just too heavy. Even if you were widowed, we would feel the same way. The responsibility of taking care of my own kids some day (whenever/if ever I have them) is heavy enough. Being responsible for another man's kids? I'd rather not be bothered. I know that sounds selfish, but when meeting someone new, I have to do what is best for myself, as you do likewise.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I have been married and divorced and now remarried but I know exactly what went wrong in my marriage and I did not cause the divorce. I was loyal up to the point that I caught her cheating. I know this is a big generalization but we live in an era where we have a high divorce rate and women initiate 75% of those divorces. Many times it is not because he did anything bad but because she wants to find herself or feels lost in the role of wife and mother or is no longer attracted to him because the intern at work smiles at her and she feels an amazing connection with him. In no way do all women do this but the walkaway wife thing is very common these days and a man has to wonder if she will do that to the father of her own children how will treat him when reality sets in and the honeymoon period is over.
Eeyore79 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think kids = drama. I don't understand the connection. I don't date men with kids for the following reasons: 1) The ex is likely to be hanging around, and I don't want that. I don't even date men who remain friends with their exes, never mind one who shares a child with them. 2) The kids make it difficult to be spontaneous and generally curtail our freedom as a couple; we can't just do something at the drop of the hat because babysitters etc have to be arranged. 3) The kids affect our financial freedom to do whatever we want; it might not cost me anything for the kids, but the other person would spend too much on their kids to be able to afford to do all the stuff that single people do. 4) I can't exactly date someone and never have anything to do with their kids, but I really don't want anything to do with them. It's bad for the kids if I date their parent and make them feel unwanted and excluded. 5) I want a partner who will put me first. I understand that a parent always has to put their kids first (and quite rightly so) but I'm not happy with second place. 6) Rightly or wrongly, I wonder how the person ended up being a single parent. Are they bad at relationships? Did they cheat? Were they irresponsible and got pregnant accidentally? The fact that their partner left them despite having a child together is a red flag to me. 7) I never want to live with a partner who has someone else's kids hanging around. That essentially means it's a waste of time for me to date someone with kids, because there's no chance of the relationship going anywhere. I'm sorry if this sounds really harsh, but my point is that men who turn you down may have similar reasons for not wanting to date a parent. It isn't about you specifically, it's just a general aversion to being involved with anyone's children. so why get involved in something complicated and potentially hard work when there are plenty of childless people out there? This is the crux of the matter. If I had no other choice then obviously I'd rather date a parent than be alone. But I do have other options, and as Emilia said, why deal with children when there are plenty of equally nice childless people available? I think there are some men out there who wouldn't mind dating a single mom, especially older men, shy men, less attractive men, or men who have kids of their own. Some men may want children, and might love to be involved with yours. But if you're hunting in the group of young, single, attractive men who have a lot of options, a single mom might not be their first choice.
EasyHeart Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Back to the original question, there are obviously a number of reasons that men don't want to date single moms: -- They don't want the responsibility of children -- They are concerned the kids will impinge on your ability to date -- They consider single moms 'tarnished' (ie, "bad life decisions") -- They are looking sex and single motherhood generally signals someone who wants a real relationship -- They just don't like kids I'll also add that online dating tends to create a "shopping list" mentality that we've talked about a lot on this forum: that people will eliminate a potential dating partner for a reason (height, age, hair color, income, divorced, kids, etc.) that probably wouldn't use as a dealbreaker if they met the person in real life. That's just the reality of OLD (and, frankly, a good reason to avoid it). But like most of the "Why do men/women ______?" threads we get on LS, it's really a ridiculous generalization. "Men" aren't afraid of children; some men (like the ones you've been running into on Match) are afraid of children. There are lots of men who love kids. I've dated lots of single moms and consider kids to be a "bonus". And I've found that if the mom is awesome, then her kids usually are, too! So don't let your experiences lately frustrate you. There are lots of guys who love kids and have no problem with dating single moms. And if a guy doesn't want to date you because you have kids, don't take it personally - it says more about him than it does about you!
Imajerk17 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 What woogle said. And also, when we do become exclusive, I need to be first in your life. It will change once we have kids and then they will be first--for a time being--but there has to be a period where I am the girl's one and only. If she puts her kids first, then I don't ever get that. And if she does not put her kids first, then what kind of mother is she.
ReturnToSender Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I think what was said earlier, about a dating website and guys (women too) being more selective and picky with their "ideal" is true... Ive been guilty of it myself and trying to relax on that... I see a guy mention he likes sports and instantly think...omg sports fan = football season/basketball season/baseball season/training season widow....*ugh!* But Ive met guys in person who I got to know and they mention they like sports and I like them well enough already that Im willing to let it slide...has never worked out though lol still never dated a guy into sports and still apprehensive, though now talking to one whos a sports freak so who knows.. Anyway, my ex had a strict no single mothers rule, and the only one he ever dated, she was older and her daughter was an adult...his only issue was that he found her daughter attractive and after awhile had to let the whole situation go cause he felt that just wasnt right. When he met me, he figured me as just someone to hook up with...didnt work out so well cause he couldnt get me in bed to save his life...the more we got to know each other the more he wanted to be with me, but kiddo was a huge hold back for him. He wasnt ready for and didnt feel he was any sort of guy to be a father figure. I wasnt asking for it or pressuring it in any way...as a matter of fact I hardly let them see each other for the longest, like once a month or so. As it turned out, he ended up loving time with her and us as a a family...so much in fact that after our breakup, he was floored to find out our family day on the weekend was done with too...he really didnt think that was part of the breakup. For months a close friend of mine said how torn up he was about it, and how he was always talking about how much he missed that. All the same, when a friend suggested he open himself up to dating a single mom since he misses it so much, hes said he still wants nothing to do with single moms...my kid and I are an exception, but hed never do that with anyone else cause he considers us the only and closest thing to a family he will ever get. I dont think its true...never say never...he turned out to be a better father figure than boyfriend (hah!) but anyway...if he stuck to his ideal, had he seen me in an online profile, he would have undoubtedly deleted and blocked me never to be thought of again.
Author makelemonade1974 Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Easy heart - you are awesome, as usual. As I think someone said, when people get into their 30's, these issues are not such a big deal. I'm just going to sing my praises for a while - "tarnished"? Are you kidding? I shine like a diamond. The fact that I have children just adds complexity to my life experiences. I would want to date me, maybe I should date myself. (Or be a lesbian) Everyone has their different take on things. And I totally understand wanting to follow this normal trajectory - meet, fall in love, live together, get married, have kids, fight about laundry, live happily ever after. And I think there is a station wagon in there somewhere.
ReturnToSender Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Oh..something I touched on and wanted to mention, it had less to do with me having a kid and more to do with him...and him feeling he didnt have what it takes to handle the responsibility of dating a woman with a child and becoming involved in not one, but two peoples lives. Even if we have no desire or inclination to find a father for our kid and not putting it out there like that, a guy still feels that...if he accepts and is a part of our lives, hes a part of our lives in whole, to include the kids. Not like he can ignore or pretend they dont exist...and would we want a guy who thought like that anyway? No way... I actually appreciate when a guy knows he cant handle that responsibility and backs off. I didnt even know how against single moms my ex was until we were together a few months..he didnt feel the need to mention it when we met since like I said, he thought it was just going to be a fling and hed never meet my daughter. As it turned out, he was the one who ended up asking when he would get to meet her. It just developed...and I have to say, hes gone from thinking hed make the worst father in the world to saying things to me like one never knows what will happen... we had said from the get go, I dont want more kids, and he said he never wants any...now he says his mom had her last child at 42, so theres still time to decide and never say never. What a difference...
mr.dream merchant Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Because a guy will happily consider his other options that don't have children before settling in with the one who does, more often than not he doesn't settle, he takes the woman without the baggage.
EasyHeart Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Easy heart - you are awesome, as usual. As I think someone said, when people get into their 30's, these issues are not such a big deal. I'm just going to sing my praises for a while - "tarnished"? Are you kidding? I shine like a diamond. The fact that I have children just adds complexity to my life experiences. I would want to date me, maybe I should date myself. (Or be a lesbian) Everyone has their different take on things. And I totally understand wanting to follow this normal trajectory - meet, fall in love, live together, get married, have kids, fight about laundry, live happily ever after. And I think there is a station wagon in there somewhere.Lemonade, I'm sure you would be an AWESOME lesbo, but don't make up your mind too impulsively. The hetero men of the world need you!!! And loving yourself is great, but don't get too carried away. For instance, it sometimes takes me an hour to shave in the morning because I can't stop looking at myself in the mirror. Some people have accused me of being conceited, but is it really MY fault that the Lord made me into such a delicious slab of beefcake?!?! I don't think so. PS: Not to nag, but IT IS TOO SOON FOR YOU TO BE DATING!!!! Jes sayin'.
yessy21 Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Because a guy will happily consider his other options that don't have children before settling in with the one who does, more often than not he doesn't settle, he takes the woman without the baggage. This is true because i hate to date guys with kids and their exes are big drama queens... i only met one guy with a kid that on our 6th date he took me my daughter and his mothers kid and new boyfriend and their kids out. which was odd. but hey.
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